AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Tobjen99]

Hi i have a Legions of Nagash army, but looking to start a new one. I am an above average bad painter. 

I like the idea of using flamers, exhaulted flamers and chariot flamers. Are they any good or how can you use them?

Tzangors on discs are really cool as well, but the paint job looks a bit hard( i painted skeletons with the easiest scheam ever). 

Or is tzheentch only for magic and summoning? 

[Caspeur]

47 minutes ago, Tobjen99 said:

Hi i have a Legions of Nagash army, but looking to start a new one. I am an above average bad painter. 

I like the idea of using flamers, exhaulted flamers and chariot flamers. Are they any good or how can you use them?

Tzangors on discs are really cool as well, but the paint job looks a bit hard( i painted skeletons with the easiest scheam ever). 

Or is tzheentch only for magic and summoning? 

Hi! I think Tzeentch would be a great choice for a second army, as it plays completely different than Death. Flesh eater cours is my second army and I love to switch armies every now and then, just for variety's sake.

Flamers and all variants of them are a little bit difficult to field right now, because they are such glass cannons. It is possible to do quite some funny things with them, though I wouldn't count on them as the bread and butter of your army.

Tzaangor enlightened however, are in a great place in my opinion, even with the recent point changes. Get a unit of 6 with spears and back them up with a Tzaangor Shaman and you'll have a powerful melee option for your relatively bad melee army.

I recommend checking out battleline first. Which ones do you like? Pink horrors have some serious summoning possibilities, while Tzaangors are relatively hard hitting, especially in bigger units. Meanwhile if you're not into both of them, Kairic Acolytes are a dirt cheap option. Then I'd look into heroes. Most heroes come with their own spells, and some of them synergize with other units. The Tzaangor Shaman, for instance, has a spell that lets you regenerate your unit of Tzaangors. There's so much stuff for Tzeentch to look into!

As for painting, don't worry too much. If you're unsure about the enlightened, start with just regular Tzaangors, as it'll just be a small upgrade from there. Hope this helps!

[AverageBoss]

Thinking about this list. Not sure on who to make general and what trait/artifact to go for yet.
 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Gaunt Summoner (160)
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Ogroid Thaumaturge (170)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Magister (140)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 6x Pair of Savage Blade
- 8x Savage Greatblade
- 6x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (160)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120
 

[Caspeur]

2 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Thinking about this list. Not sure on who to make general and what trait/artifact to go for yet.
 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Gaunt Summoner (160)
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Ogroid Thaumaturge (170)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Magister (140)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 6x Pair of Savage Blade
- 8x Savage Greatblade
- 6x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (160)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120
 

Looking good! I suggest giving the Gaunt Summoner Arcane Sacrifice. Keep a unit of pinks within 3" and you get some amazing combos. First off, you do D3 mortal wounds on the pinks, generating blue points. You can trigger your battleshock without having enemies near them. Your Gaunt Summoner then gets reroll to cast, which is amazing on its own, but you also get 9" extra range on his spells. This stacks with the Vortex, giving you 33" range on his signature spell and the bolt of change!

For artefacts I like Souldraught as it enhances your casting, but I've seen a lot of Gryph Feather charms (realm artifact) being played.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Caspeur

[MattyP]

When the LoC swaps with a model, d o the bases have to be center to center ?

[Connelj2]

5 hours ago, MattyP said:

When the LoC swaps with a model, d o the bases have to be center to center ?

Yes they do sadly so he can only swap with pink horrors if there is one left in the unit, i say this on the fb paint and talked to a few TOs and they all ruled it the same

[PUFNSTUF]

Has anyone tried using the vortex beast or is it too expensive points wise?

[Txivneeb]

1 hour ago, PUFNSTUF said:

Has anyone tried using the vortex beast or is it too expensive points wise?

Havent had it in a game yet, but might be able to do it this thursday.

Think it looks quite strong for 200 points.

But if anyone have som experience let me know

[Olincay]

On 6/30/2019 at 8:13 AM, Connelj2 said:

Yes they do sadly so he can only swap with pink horrors if there is one left in the unit, i say this on the fb paint and talked to a few TOs and they all ruled it the same

I don't think this is correct. 

[CountryMou3e]

4 hours ago, Txivneeb said:

Havent had it in a game yet, but might be able to do it this thursday.

Think it looks quite strong for 200 points.

But if anyone have som experience let me know

Problem with the vortex beast is the random nature of the damage and debuffs in comparison to other units at the same price point. You’ll get more out of your 200 pts taking skyfires for example. 

However, if the vortex beast was to be added to our summoning pool.... then I’d more then likely buy one or two !  

[Asimov]

5 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:

Has anyone tried using the vortex beast or is it too expensive points wise?

I tried it and I liked it. It might not have the damage output of the skyfires (i did not do the math) but it is really tanky and scary for your opponent.

People do not expect this kind of monster in our army, it gives you the adavantage of the surpirse.

I would not play it in tournament though, because it does not have much synergies with the rest of the army

[Tobjen99]

I am planning to buy a Tzaangor shaman, tzaangores and a set off enlightened. Would you recomend enlightend on foot or on discks? I will buy more off them later, might get skyfires. 

[Asimov]

19 minutes ago, Tobjen99 said:

I am planning to buy a Tzaangor shaman, tzaangores and a set off enlightened. Would you recomend enlightend on foot or on discks? I will buy more off them later, might get skyfires. 

If you ar enot sure, use magnets. I have 9 Tzaangors on disc, I can play them as enlightened on foot/disc or skyfires. 
Magnets for life

[Tobjen99]

14 minutes ago, Asimov said:

If you ar enot sure, use magnets. I have 9 Tzaangors on disc, I can play them as enlightened on foot/disc or skyfires. 
Magnets for life

Is it hard to use magnets? What do you have to do? Or do you have any good guides?

[Asimov]

3 minutes ago, Tobjen99 said:

Is it hard to use magnets? What do you have to do? Or do you have any good guides?

I found good advices there : https://darrenbolton40.wordpress.com/2017/09/12/tzaangor-enlightened-skyfires/ 
Basicly you need a hand drill, neodymium magnets and super glue. 

[Nizrah]

Do you guys think thats playing on Oracles Battalion would be possible?

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Kairos Fateweaver (380)
Lord of Change (380)
Lord of Change (380)
Lord of Change (380)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)

Battalions
Omniscient Oracles (130)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86
 

[Magnus The Blue]

Possible, yes.  Good, No.

The big problem is that the Lord of Change's main damage output is spells and in particular it's signature spell.  With 3 of them they will struggle to have worth while things to cast. You'll get lots of summoning points but with the offensive ability of a brimestone horror that's feeling under the weather and very little screening, you'll really struggle to win games.

[daviseford]

Hey guys, we just added Tzeentch to the AoS Reminders App.

If you haven't heard of/used AOS Reminders yet, give it a whirl - enter your army, traits, artifacts, etc, and it'll spit out a nicely printable list that you can take with you to tournaments. Very helpful for army with lots of stuff happening in each phase - and after adding your whole rulebook into the tool, let me say, WOW you guys have a lot of rules!

Please go through and check out the rules and make sure we have them right.  Leave any issues here on TGA, or on Github here: https://github.com/daviseford/aos-reminders/issues

[Olincay]

How are people finding command point usage for tzeentch? I'm not sure if i want to start with one or two.
 

[Isotop]

On 6/30/2019 at 12:43 AM, Connelj2 said:

Yes they do sadly so he can only swap with pink horrors if there is one left in the unit, i say this on the fb paint and talked to a few TOs and they all ruled it the same

 

On 7/1/2019 at 7:57 AM, Olincay said:

I don't think this is correct. 

I guess both of you do not have any hard rules reference to back up your claims? I searched for this in the FAQ/Designer´s commentary but could not find anything about it. Personally I think that @Connelj2 is right, though. Is there a reasonable way of defining the position of a model on the battlefield other than using the center of its base?

[Olincay]

3 minutes ago, Isotop said:

 

I guess both of you do not have any hard rules reference to back up your claims? I searched for this in the FAQ/Designer´s commentary but could not find anything about it. Personally I think that @Connelj2 is right, though. Is there a reasonable way of defining the position of a model on the battlefield other than using the center of its base?

A mate of mine ran changehost at a 70 player tournament two weeks ago and was swapping his loc with units of pinks and no issue was raised, also just going from my memory from when the tzeentch book first dropped it was played the same way. I haven't seen a FAQ addressing this battalion at all. 

[Isotop]

There is indeed an erratum about Change host, but it has no bearing on the question we are discussing.

"A mate played it this way and no one objected" is not a proof in any way. "I think everyone played it like this" does not tell us how a rule should work. My guess is that there is no hard evidence in either direction but I think it can be interesting to discuss our positions on the matter. So I would ask you: What restricitons do you apply when swapping two models positions?

[Karragon]

Whilst it's not exactly the same wording I think the FAQ for Morathi is telling:

Quote

Q: When Morathi transforms, does the centre of her new base need to be at the same location as the centre of her old base (if there is room)? And if there isn’t room, is the location she is moved to measured from the centre of her base?

A: Yes to both questions. When an ability refers to setting up a model ‘on the same spot’, the centre of the base of each model is used to determine where exactly that spot is.

 

[Paniere]

19 minutes ago, Karragon said:

Whilst it's not exactly the same wording I think the FAQ for Morathi is telling:

 

I don't think this rule applies for 2 reasons:

1) wording: changehost rule doesn't use "on the same spot" wording, but "take one model from each unit and have them spaw places on the battlefield"

2) Good sense: makes no sense to me that LoC can swap place with 1 pink but can't with 2 or more , when 40 pinks could swap with other 40 with no problem. Get the hell out my way I'd say!

[Isotop]

22 minutes ago, Karragon said:

Whilst it's not exactly the same wording I think the FAQ for Morathi is telling:

 

Thanks a lot, mate. I would say it is pretty clear that "switching the positions of two models" and "setting up model A in the same spot model B occupied and vice versa" are interchangeable statements.