AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[CountryMou3e]

15 hours ago, Darkhan said:

Hey guys,  have any of you Tzeentch players encountered this issue before?

 We stumbled upon something when facing Tzeentch.
The opponent had Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch. I casted Warp Lightning Vortex, and Curseling managed to dispell it. 

It states in the Curseling warscroll:

"Each time a Curseling successfully unbinds an enemy spell, he can immediately attempt to cast it himself even though it is your opponent’s hero phase. If this spell is cast, your opponent cannot attempt to unbind it."

But, on the Warp Lightning Vortex warscroll it states:

"Summon Warp Lightning Vortex has a casting value of 8. Only Skaventide Wizards can attempt to cast this spell."

 So the question is, would the Curseling be able to cast the Vortex?

Would he need the modell himself? Would he need to set off 100 points to be able to recast it? Would he be able to cast it even the spell states "Skaventide Wizards only"?

 

•  

No , in the latest faq it basically states that in matched play ,you can not recast an endless spell without already having paid for it in your list. 

You also cannot recast an endless that has another armies keyword (skaven, stormcast) etc

[mmimzie]

1 hour ago, CountryMou3e said:

You also cannot recast an endless that has another armies keyword (skaven, stormcast) etc

Endless spells do not have keywords or factions, but otherwise you are correct.

[HMB]

after a long stop playing my DoT here's a list i will try to  play tomorrow

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Trait: Incorporeal Form 
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond
Kairos Fateweaver (380)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch

Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
20 x Chaos Marauders (120)
- Axes

Units
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

[CyderPirate]

 

On 4/23/2019 at 6:38 AM, CountryMou3e said:

No , in the latest faq it basically states that in matched play ,you can not recast an endless spell without already having paid for it in your list. 

You also cannot recast an endless that has another armies keyword (skaven, stormcast) etc

FAQ says you can use Curseling's ability to recast endless spells. Not sure how that works in practice re: models, though. In the case of the Skaven one, though, I don't think you can cast it as the Curseling is not a Skaventide Wizard.  Same goes for a load of spells that say pick a friendly Idoneth/Gloomspite etc etc unit.

"Q: Can a Curseling, having unbound an endless spell, use the Vessel of Chaos ability to attempt to cast that endless spell?

A: Yes."

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_disciples_of_tzeentch_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

 

 

[Drib]

2 hours ago, CyderPirate said:

 

FAQ says you can use Curseling's ability to recast endless spells. Not sure how that works in practice re: models, though. In the case of the Skaven one, though, I don't think you can cast it as the Curseling is not a Skaventide Wizard.  Same goes for a load of spells that say pick a friendly Idoneth/Gloomspite etc etc unit.

"Q: Can a Curseling, having unbound an endless spell, use the Vessel of Chaos ability to attempt to cast that endless spell?

A: Yes."

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_disciples_of_tzeentch_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

 

 

Well thats true for non-matched play.

"Q: Some abilities allow a model to know additional spells, including additional endless spells. In a Pitched Battle, can you use these abilities to cast endless spells if you did not spend the points for those endless spells? In addition, can these abilities be used to cast endless spells that can normally only be cast by Wizards that have a specific keyword?

A: No to both questions."

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/age_of_sigmar_malign_sorcery_designers_commmentary_en.pdf

[CyderPirate]

13 minutes ago, Drib said:

Well thats true for non-matched play.

"Q: Some abilities allow a model to know additional spells, including additional endless spells. In a Pitched Battle, can you use these abilities to cast endless spells if you did not spend the points for those endless spells? In addition, can these abilities be used to cast endless spells that can normally only be cast by Wizards that have a specific keyword?

A: No to both questions."

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/age_of_sigmar_malign_sorcery_designers_commmentary_en.pdf

Cheers for pointing that out, I hadn't seen that. Glad it hasn't come up yet or I would've been cheating! 

 

[MattyP]

1 hour ago, Drib said:

Well thats true for non-matched play.

"Q: Some abilities allow a model to know additional spells, including additional endless spells. In a Pitched Battle, can you use these abilities to cast endless spells if you did not spend the points for those endless spells? In addition, can these abilities be used to cast endless spells that can normally only be cast by Wizards that have a specific keyword?

A: No to both questions."

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/age_of_sigmar_malign_sorcery_designers_commmentary_en.pdf

But I thought the the curseling does not know/learn the spell as he can only cast it if he unbinds it and not again.which means his ability ( vessel of chaos) does not let him learn the endless spell...unless using glean magic, which doesn't work for endless spells

Edited April 24, 2019 by MattyP

[Masake]

6 hours ago, MattyP said:

But I thought the the curseling does not know/learn the spell as he can only cast it if he unbinds it and not again.which means his ability ( vessel of chaos) does not let him learn the endless spell...unless using glean magic, which doesn't work for endless spells

Exactly my feeling! It is two complete different things...

Curseling does have the "Learning Spell" and the "Counter Spell" - In the Malign Sorc is clear that he cannot LEARN any endless spell without paying it cost and having the correct keyword BUT... in the DoT FAQ it is stated that he can indeed Counter the Endless Spell with Vessel and cast it without paying the cost!

Ofc in the second case you will have to have the Endless Spell model to place it.

[MattyP]

Seeing all these new updates for other armies had me itching for more things Tzeentch. Although the time waiting is good....cause I'm so far behind on painting

Edited April 25, 2019 by MattyP

[newsun]

Any one run a list like this?

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
Magister (140)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 154
 

[Skoatz]

Does anyone know what Matt Beasley’s list was?  He won the Wet Coast GT on 4/20.

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/nx905qf1

[Saodexan]

2 hours ago, Skoatz said:

Does anyone know what Matt Beasley’s list was?  He won the Wet Coast GT on 4/20.

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/nx905qf1

You can see his last match on twitch https://www.twitch.tv/videos/414502558

 

[newsun]

I like this list a lot, I'll have to test it. Looks like you can poke from long range a couple of times and puts out a lot of shots.

[newsun]

If using command point for reroll charge, can use destiny dice for the reroll part only?

[Paniere]

afaik, you can't use destiny dices for rerolls, as pointed out in DoT designer's commentary 

[Xasto]

On 4/23/2019 at 1:17 AM, Drillz said:

@Xasto hey why did you choose spell portal over balewind or other endless spells?

For the ability to massively extend the range on either a bursting spell (LoC) or a horde clearing spell (Gaunt Summoner), and the spell portal does it best.

[Paniere]

I had my first AoS game yesterday and it was a blast, I had great fun with all the magic and summoning. One (amongst many) question arose, when my Gaunt summoner cast its spells using both arcane sacrifice and wellspring od arcane might. Let's say I roll 1-5 to cast a difficulty 8 spell. I reroll the 1 (WoAM) getting a 2, still a fail. Then I reroll both (arcane sacrifice) getting 1-3. I reroll 1 getting 6-3, finally a success. This is how we played it but I'm unsure of it since it looks too powerful. Is this procedure correct? if no, how does it work?  Thanks all

[SolomonHelsing]

You can't re-roll a re-roll, so you would have to choose between either using arcane sacrifice if that says you can re-roll both dice, or re-roll the 1 from WoAM, but not one then the other, then using the WoAM a second time. 

 

For my current Seraphon list, I often can either re-roll ones to charge, or do the command ability to re-roll both dice. So very much the same situation, but I have to pick which to use as I would be re-rolling a re-roll to use both. 

[Paniere]

I can see why 

1 hour ago, SolomonHelsing said:

You can't re-roll a re-roll, so you would have to choose between either using arcane sacrifice if that says you can re-roll both dice, or re-roll the 1 from WoAM, but not one then the other, then using the WoAM a second time. 

 

For my current Seraphon list, I often can either re-roll ones to charge, or do the command ability to re-roll both dice. So very much the same situation, but I have to pick which to use as I would be re-rolling a re-roll to use both. 

thanks for this, all clear now

 

[kleinemade]

On 4/27/2019 at 6:16 AM, Saodexan said:

Hi,

 

I also like this list pretty much but I would like to discuss the point to use an LoC instead of Kairos.

 Kairos:

 Advantage:

Get one additional Destiny Die

Knows all other Spells of your Army, as long the others are alive and within 18"

Generate Chaos Spawns with his spell – good for blocking an binding of enemy’s

 Disadvantage:

Cannot use an artefact – lack of good artefact for Ogrid if you not playing in special Realms

Damage output statistical lower with own spell  as LoC – not quite sure

No command ability

Can not learn other spells by unbind

 

What do you thinking about it ?

Edited May 1, 2019 by kleinemade

[Fenomeen]

Its mainly so he can freely use fold reality without being scared for the 1.

 

Otherwise you would save fold reality for when you have 1-3 models left. Now he'll just freely throw it after losing 2 models I suppose

[Magnus The Blue]

2 minutes ago, Fenomeen said:

Its mainly so he can freely use fold reality without being scared for the 1.

 

Otherwise you would save fold reality for when you have 1-3 models left. Now he'll just freely throw it after losing 2 models I suppose

Yup, this.  Can also save you're bacon in a million other ways like making sure you get that vital cast/unravel etc etc etc. It's one of the most powerful abilities in the game, letting you make more risky plays every turn until you have used it.

[kleinemade]

Quote

  10 hours ago, Fenomeen said:

Its mainly so he can freely use fold reality without being scared for the 1.

 

Otherwise you would save fold reality for when you have 1-3 models left. Now he'll just freely throw it after losing 2 models I suppose

Yup, this.  Can also save you're bacon in a million other ways like making sure you get that vital cast/unravel etc etc etc. It's one of the most powerful abilities in the game, letting you make more risky plays every turn until you have used it.

Ok i can see this point - But i guess risky play also depends on the destiny dice. If i have some 2 or 3 - i can use them as well for Fold Reality. But for sure the ability to change the roll afterwards is really great. ! ! 

 

[Magnus The Blue]

9 minutes ago, kleinemade said:

Ok i can see this point - But i guess risky play also depends on the destiny dice. If i have some 2 or 3 - i can use them as well for Fold Reality. But for sure the ability to change the roll afterwards is really great. ! ! 

 

Unfortunately not, destiny dice can only be used on specific dice rolls and spell effects isn't one of them.

[kleinemade]

Quote

Unfortunately not, destiny dice can only be used on specific dice rolls and spell effects isn't one of them.

Yeah you are right, you cant use the DD for an effect of an Fold reality but for and Damage roll of an cast or i am wrong here?