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AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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46 minutes ago, Fenomeen said:

Hi guys, wanted to share my 1250 list to spark some more discussion:

 

[Heros]
Lord of Change (Mark of Conjurer, Tzeentch Inferno)
Gaunt Summoner w/ Chaos Familiars (Arcane Sacrifice, Treacherous Bond)
Herald of Tzeentch (Bolt of Tzeentch)
[Units]
2x 10 Pink Horrors (Fold Reality,  Unchecked Mutation)
[Spells]
Balewind Vortex
Chronomatic Cogs
Aethervoid Pendulum

 

So the idea is ramping up. I try to summon 2x 10 blues t1 to populate the field. and bubble wrap my hero's. t3 and t4 is where I should truly shine by outnumbering my opponent in summoned points and controlling the battlefield. Hoping I'm not too far behind objective wise. I'm thinking of switching up the endless spells and do miss the extra protection items on Lord of Change for the -2 to hit. But for now I'll be testing this list with a friend for locals next week. Fire away
 

With pendulum, conjurer and sacrifices you should easily summon when needed so it looks great at filling out bodies! I do however warn about cogs. As summoning is never intrinsic in a tzeentch list as most points come from horror deaths it’s far better in my mind to attempt shackles or palisade in order to counter melee lists and keep you safe then too gain a *possible* 2 points per turn. Especially when you will only be casting arcane bolt or mystic shield with the final spell on the lord of change. Balewind is welcome as it increase range and doesn’t just give extra spells. I’d argue a spell portal would be a more desirable endless spell for this list for a quick even point trade if you don’t want to Be left with more points to spend.

id also argue the need to have starting size for early game, I’d suggest marauders or dare I say.... maybe.... getting rid of the chicken for a cheaper caster and more bodies? 😣😣😣 I’m sorry (I like hordes) don’t hurt me 😂😂😂

becuase of lack of damage horror lists kind of keep momentum rather then gain it which is why I would start with more bodies for early objectives personally. It should be noted that this is from someone whose knowledge isn’t firsthand, but received from studying up so it may not be the case for you. Also the chicken is just SOOOOO COOOL so I would be heartbroken to remove him even if it might be the best choice (and it’s probably not) 

fateweaver is also a choice, same points so easy replace (also his ability makes fold reality not a gamble) , also why the herald? Why not another caster (like the magister, creates thall that shall not be named so potentially stops charges, seems better to me personally then the herald, but of course the herald is nice cuz daemon hero and horrors) or even more bodies tbh, it’s 120 for marauders and another 20 to add shackles if you drop the herald 😎

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56 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

 

With pendulum, conjurer and sacrifices you should easily summon when needed so it looks great at filling out bodies! I do however warn about cogs. As summoning is never intrinsic in a tzeentch list as most points come from horror deaths it’s far better in my mind to attempt shackles or palisade in order to counter melee lists and keep you safe then too gain a *possible* 2 points per turn. Especially when you will only be casting arcane bolt or mystic shield with the final spell on the lord of change. Balewind is welcome as it increase range and doesn’t just give extra spells. I’d argue a spell portal would be a more desirable endless spell for this list for a quick even point trade if you don’t want to Be left with more points to spend.

id also argue the need to have starting size for early game, I’d suggest marauders or dare I say.... maybe.... getting rid of the chicken for a cheaper caster and more bodies? 😣😣😣 I’m sorry (I like hordes) don’t hurt me 😂😂😂

becuase of lack of damage horror lists kind of keep momentum rather then gain it which is why I would start with more bodies for early objectives personally. It should be noted that this is from someone whose knowledge isn’t firsthand, but received from studying up so it may not be the case for you. Also the chicken is just SOOOOO COOOL so I would be heartbroken to remove him even if it might be the best choice (and it’s probably not) 

fateweaver is also a choice, same points so easy replace (also his ability makes fold reality not a gamble) , also why the herald? Why not another caster (like the magister, creates thall that shall not be named so potentially stops charges, seems better to me personally then the herald, but of course the herald is nice cuz daemon hero and horrors) or even more bodies tbh, it’s 120 for marauders and another 20 to add shackles if you drop the herald 😎

Ït's not so much about the extra 2 points from cogs. It's about hitting 10 FP consistently (i can max at 13 fp t1 atm) to be able to bring out Blues t1. In theory I should be able to summon 10 blues through Arcana sacrifce and the other 10 through fate points turn 1.  Also cogs gives my LoC reroll saves making it possible to play less scared with him and actually try hold obj with him and cogs behind him.

Spell portal seems good only t1. Since I'm forcing the opponent to rush me with this list, i dont think I will get much snipe value. He will try to be in my face and portal doesnt achieve anything bc he will be in range anyway then.

 

I agree on the extra models but the idea is that I have 20 more bodies on t1. So that would be the same as the 20 marauders you suggested right?

Herald is due to lack of models. For now a filler mainly and tried to make him a sniper by giving him a second bolt spell. Since I focus on heavy horde roast with bffed gaunt I wanted a elite killer as supplementary.

For me the things that are most debatable are:

Herald of tzeentch
Aethervoid pendelum
Chronomatic Cogs

Would you take all these out for more bodys?

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Have a 1250 point against seraphon playing duality of death, where only heroes/ behemoths can take objectuves. He has 3 heroes and a deep strike unit....I'm thinking to take

Tzeentch3.pdf

GS  w/familiars ...general, arcane sacrifice...bolt of tzeentch 

Ogroid...treacherous bond

LoC ...Mark of conjurer....tzeentchs  inferno

10x pinks....treason of tzeentch 

10 x pinks ....unchecked mutation 

Balewind 

Cogs

 

Edited by MattyP
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14 hours ago, Matador said:

I am a dedicated Freeguild guy..... snicker all you want!  

But in the interest of proving my buddy Snoopy's assertion that the only winning Tzeentch list is the Skyfire orgy lists making the rounds lately I undertook some research, buying, building and farming out (ye gods my painting is bad).

The result is the attached list; Billy Blake's Battalion.

I 've been running it for three weeks now and after 11 battles and 11 wins, none going the full 5 rounds I can tell you that I am yearning for that ultimate badge of honor... Seeing GW nerf it! lol. Seriously this is a fun, versatile list that will have your opponent checking his rule books, and FAQs for hours to see if you really can rain that many mortal wounds down on his superduper  Khorn killers, or his theretofore undefeated Flesh-eaters!  It is a delight. While pricy, at $523 (not counting the painter... eeek) it is well worth the price and will change your Tzeentch perspective for the better. 

Be warned that it is also frail and very unforgiving of generals who lose focus and don't keep a close eye on their opponent's army and threat matrixes. 

Enjoy!

 BillyBlake'sBattalion.pdf

BillyBlake'sBattalion.pdf

I'm curious what is this "Skyfire orgy" list you are seeing? I wasn't playing AoS when Skyfires were the hotness and I only just recently began looking into them as an alternative to the mass Horror summoning lists that have been popular for at least the last year or so.

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7 hours ago, Fenomeen said:

Ït's not so much about the extra 2 points from cogs. It's about hitting 10 FP consistently (i can max at 13 fp t1 atm) to be able to bring out Blues t1. In theory I should be able to summon 10 blues through Arcana sacrifce and the other 10 through fate points turn 1.  Also cogs gives my LoC reroll saves making it possible to play less scared with him and actually try hold obj with him and cogs behind him.

Spell portal seems good only t1. Since I'm forcing the opponent to rush me with this list, i dont think I will get much snipe value. He will try to be in my face and portal doesnt achieve anything bc he will be in range anyway then.

 

I agree on the extra models but the idea is that I have 20 more bodies on t1. So that would be the same as the 20 marauders you suggested right?

Herald is due to lack of models. For now a filler mainly and tried to make him a sniper by giving him a second bolt spell. Since I focus on heavy horde roast with bffed gaunt I wanted a elite killer as supplementary.

For me the things that are most debatable are:

Herald of tzeentch
Aethervoid pendelum
Chronomatic Cogs

Would you take all these out for more bodys?

Because of how cheap marauders are you only have to get rid of the herald for 20 more so it seems like a good trade especially since the lord of change can do more damage then the herald and you have two other casters so I think you’ll be fine in that regard. I’d also like to ask you why you don’t just summing pinks in your second turn instead of blues first turn since you say you’ll already have enough for blues thru arcane sacrifice (which is the trait right? How are you getting 10 points from d3 models dying unless you use the pendulum to supplement that)

The chicken is amazing and perhaps the best generic caster in the game so you won’t be disappointed by him I’m just biased in my leaning towards less squishy lists haha. I do think you should just attempt for pinks second turn for better lategame anytime you can manage it tbh, and I missed the sweet spot being missed so don’t take out cogs (but that herald for the marauders and shackles is prolly worth it) 

as for spell portal, sometimes it’s exactly what you need to use the gaunt summoners abilities on fanned out hordes. Against Sylvaneth or any board with woods you can place it inside the woods to circumvent The stupid line of sight rule it has. If you roll poorly on realm and get ulgu one of the realm traits is 12 inch line of sight for everything except prayers and relics... it’ll hurt without spell portal. Getting around line of sight blocking terrain is useful, and the actual reason you take it is becuase you can fire a spell outside of deny range which is LIT 🔥 lol (as I believe they still need to be in range of you to deny it)

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5 hours ago, MattyP said:

Have a 1250 point against seraphon playing duality of death, where only heroes/ behemoths can take objectuves. He has 3 heroes and a deep strike unit....I'm thinking to take

Tzeentch3.pdf

GS  w/familiars ...general, arcane sacrifice...bolt of tzeentch 

Ogroid...treacherous bond

LoC ...Mark of conjurer....tzeentchs  inferno

10x pinks....treason of tzeentch 

10 x pinks ....unchecked mutation 

Balewind 

Cogs

 

I hope they didn’t choose the rule s of engagement, seraphon have advantage on these objectives 😂😂😂

first off you are gonna have to decide early on whether you want to kill the slann or not, as it will most likely take two turns of spells. The list itself is pretty good from what ive seen (although the ogroid in a ranged list seems out of place, however since you will most likely be fightin* up close against heroes for objectives perhaps will work out fine. If taking him for his spell I’d suggest the magister as a cheaper and better version of said spell utility wise. Of course less damage and wound still but them the breaks for potentially tying up units. Plus if he runs skinks they will be forced to retreat hilariously enough as they almost definitely can’t do enough damage to the spawn)

what exaclty is the seraphon packing. Are they going skinks or saurus? Do you know specifically the hero’s he has? How focused on summoning is this player?

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On 4/4/2019 at 7:08 AM, Nqshou said:

I was not expecting so much. Thank you for your reply. I do have a bunch of questions : 1. Why do you bring Blue horrors when you can bring more pink horrors that will then split into blue when they die? Do you do that to directly bring more bodies to the fight and therefore get control of objectives? 2. Could you please share a 1K list, and what should be added to this list to make it a 2k list? Thanks again.

TGA was down for a bit a wasnt it? Lol

anyways horror spam isn’t as effective at low points but I think you can get results with the right list, so first things first we need a cheap wizard able to fulfill our wizardinf needs and grab a daemon relic well also grabbing an arcanite trait

gaunt summoner w/ mark of the conjurer and arcane sacrifice

then we will want our battline 

pink horror*10

pink horror*10

then some blues for numbers and later summoning brims (as we want initial bulk and throw away units while still going full horror spam)

blues*10

blues*10

blues*10

then end with some endless spells, we will be taking shackles for denying charges. Spell portal for board control and pendulum for summoning 

1000/1000 pts 

game plan is to first turn launch pendulum thru as many horror units as you are brave enough to hit (hitting at least one pink unit) with this and arcane sacrifice you almost guarantee a blue horror unit first turn even if you only hit one pink unit and with using a one on the battle shock for the pinks you can mitigate actual losses by bringing back d6. Becuase you are killing your own dudes you may want to grab emerald lifeswarm instead of spell portal to bring back some more losses.  Becuase you aren’t very damaging and have less mobility then a 2k list (becuase lack of changehost) try to focus down spells on objective grabbin units (with gaunt summoner you can easily remove a 40 block of something with another spell and battle shock so objectives will get easier and easier as you replace your losses with summoning and your opponent loses his highest model count units) save your CP for battle shocks when battle shock will cause you to lose an objective. Magic is your best damage dealer so always give the pinks at least one damage spell (if not both pink units) if you want you can adjust the endless spells and list by dropping a blue for brimstones giving you 30 more points to work with. You can grab balewind instead of spell portal as well if you want an extra spell to possibly activate mark of the conjurer more times (I really just put it there for some bonus points and to make summoning a little more powerful) I also left lore spells blank but almost always go for the look out sir spell on the gaunt summoner as he is your only unit that can summon, if he dies your list does as well.

As for a complete 2k list here one I’d run based on the template above and the original 2k list Base

lord of change w/agnaxs scales (4 up save vs mortal wounds) 

gaunt summoner w/arcane sacrifice and wellspring of arcane might

pinks*10

pinks*10

pinks*10

blues*10

blues*10

blues*10

blues*10

brims*10

brims*10

formation:changehost

endless spells: pendulum, shackles, spell portal

i did the math in my head but should be 2000/2000 points and fit all the requirements for the formation and a 2k list. I left lore spells blank as I believe you should choose depending on opponent (always have someone with bolt of tzeentch tho and always get the gaunt summoner the look out sir spell unless your opponent has zero ranged threats and no wizards) I chose agnaxes scales as my defensive relic due to my opponents that I normally fight not having anything ranged that isn’t wizards (other then token units I can deal with without much fuss when needed) so if your meta is different feel free to pick a different relic for him. I grabbed well spring on the gaunt summoner becuase we have a lot of daemon casters and when rolling 14 dice every magic phase you are bound to roll ones with some of those dice and worst case scenario you just roll another one and best case scenario you get plus one to plus five to your dice roll so it’s honestly a great relic!

any questions or if my math is wrong then ask away, sorry for the huge delay in posting 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sigwarus said:

How to tackle the gristelgore and Tyrants list thats now flowing The meta? Magic seems not be enough to kill all the monsters and enlightened gets killed before fighting. 

I’ve lost terribly to fec recently, I don’t think it’s unbeatable but you defo need to focus down one monster at a time. They don’t degrade much so it’s important to finish one off before you move to the next. 

That and castle up/hope for the best lol 

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9 hours ago, Sigwarus said:

How to tackle the gristelgore and Tyrants list thats now flowing The meta? Magic seems not be enough to kill all the monsters and enlightened gets killed before fighting. 

Honestly? The best counter is hordes vs monsters. No elite unit will stand up to those monsters. The good thing is that they are secretly slightly over priced and hitting twice and mortal wounds are their best tricks. So when they aren’t used efficiently they can be bogged down and killed pretty easily. 

We also have dudes who are horde and have a save vs mortal wounds if yah know what I mean (those beautiful kairic acolytes)

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On 4/4/2019 at 4:17 PM, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I hope they didn’t choose the rule s of engagement, seraphon have advantage on these objectives 😂😂😂

first off you are gonna have to decide early on whether you want to kill the slann or not, as it will most likely take two turns of spells. The list itself is pretty good from what ive seen (although the ogroid in a ranged list seems out of place, however since you will most likely be fightin* up close against heroes for objectives perhaps will work out fine. If taking him for his spell I’d suggest the magister as a cheaper and better version of said spell utility wise. Of course less damage and wound still but them the breaks for potentially tying up units. Plus if he runs skinks they will be forced to retreat hilariously enough as they almost definitely can’t do enough damage to the spawn)

what exaclty is the seraphon packing. Are they going skinks or saurus? Do you know specifically the hero’s he has? How focused on summoning is this player?

We played duality of death....where only heroes or behemoths take objectives....So it started off well with me rolling high casting rolls and him failing unbinds....I screened well until I had to move heroes to take objectives and I only partially screened the LoC who was killed top of turn 3 by the deepstriking ripperdactyls. He got them on the LoC bottom of turn 2, but then he got the double turn.....and got his bastillidon in range of the LoC and objective 1.....which meant he now has objective 1. I was so demoralized that I didn't know how to come back from that...as I didn't have the second objective, but my magister was near the second objective and was going there but kept him screened with pinks....GS was screened by other pinks but on a balewind. ......he had objective 1 and I had summoned blues on objective 2.....he got a razordon into my blues....I was so concerned about screening my 2 remaining heroes that it cost me....cause I should have charged 1 unit of pinks and magister into the razordon to  get the magister on the objective.......I also should have pulled some pinks away from the GS earlier to screen the other side of the LoC...😕. So.....yeah.

Edited by MattyP
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Skip the horrors and go for the Burning chariots

On 4/4/2019 at 8:42 AM, Reezark_SP said:

I'm curious what is this "Skyfire orgy" list you are seeing? I wasn't playing AoS when Skyfires were the hotness and I only just recently began looking into them as an alternative to the mass Horror summoning lists that have been popular for at least the last year or so.

Skip the horrors and go with the chariots mate, the maneuverability, the mortal wounds, the rebound, all make them better for a clever general. I played against a horror 2k, and then a horror 3k over the weekend and neither game went to 5 before my opponent was tabled. 

 

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2 hours ago, Matador said:

Skip the horrors and go for the Burning chariots

Skip the horrors and go with the chariots mate, the maneuverability, the mortal wounds, the rebound, all make them better for a clever general. I played against a horror 2k, and then a horror 3k over the weekend and neither game went to 5 before my opponent was tabled. 

 

Wow that's awesome how many chariots do you recommend?  I've been experimenting with a Skyshoal Coven for the last couple of weeks to moderate success but got roflestomped last night by a pretty nasty Seraphon list. If I drop the battalion and 2 of the 3 man unit of Skyfires that will give me 3 burning chariots with about 100 points leftover. Is that workable or...?

Edited by Reezark_SP
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12 hours ago, Matador said:

Skip the horrors and go for the Burning chariots

Skip the horrors and go with the chariots mate, the maneuverability, the mortal wounds, the rebound, all make them better for a clever general. I played against a horror 2k, and then a horror 3k over the weekend and neither game went to 5 before my opponent was tabled. 

 

Can you please detail your list and your strategy?
I tried a heavy charriot and flamer list against a free people army (former empire) and I got decimated by the shooting. Won the game because it was a heroes objectives and I got the first turn. Since then, I had a very bad feeling on charriots, which is a bommer since I love the model and I painted 3 of them...

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16 hours ago, Asimov said:

Can you please detail your list and your strategy?
I tried a heavy charriot and flamer list against a free people army (former empire) and I got decimated by the shooting. Won the game because it was a heroes objectives and I got the first turn. Since then, I had a very bad feeling on charriots, which is a bommer since I love the model and I painted 3 of them...

Howdy Asimov!  

How funny is this? my main army is Free people and I just luuuuuuuuuuuuv playing them, and have always found the one weakness in my freeguild list (especially in time-limited tournaments) is heroes and objectives! lol usually my go-to solution is to forego the objectives and focus on tabling my opponent by killing his whole army and picking up objectives in the remaining rounds. 

But that is my Freeguild hat talking!  here is the link to my first post about my list from a couple of pages back and attached is my list. I will be happy to chat in more detail on my battle philosophy with the list in PM's as to avoid posting the 'walls of text' I can make during that kind of thing. 

Thanks for the interest and I hope it will help

 

 

 

 

BillyBlake'sBattalion.pdf

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1 hour ago, Fenomeen said:

How do you guys feel about the endless spells we have available currently?

 

I've been loving Chronomatic Cogs on my Lord of Change with Mark of Conjurer

I’ve got 220 worth in my list , you kinda have to build around blue horror farming to make it worth it. Most games I don’t use all of them but the utility they add is beneficial imo

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