AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Asimov]

11 hours ago, Num said:

Hello fellow chaos followers

My brother plays daemons of tzeentch (gaunt summoner, summoner on disc, ogroid, flamers, pink...) and it is his birthday soon. I would like to gift him some endless spells, as he doesn't have any yet.

Are there some "top picks" or "auto include" for daemons of tzeentch please?

I play a wizard-heavy skaven army so there will be some crazy magic battles to come!

The Balewinf Vortex is indeed one of the best. You will also find some really good ones in Malign Sorcery: the cogs for extra spell, the shackles to block marching armies, the swords/pendulum to sacrifice your own pinks and then thow them at your opponents. The geminids good also, the palissade against shooting armies. To finish, I am not a big fan of the portal since the FAQ, you can use it only once a turn. 

[Asimov]

12 hours ago, MattyP said:

Needing some help/advice....newish player here and love the lore, look of Tzeentch...and the painting. But not fairing well when I play.....my current list is the following:

Lord of Change  - 

Gaunt summoner w/ familiars -  general....Arcane sacrifice...tzeentch's          inferno

blue scribes...fold reality

Herald on foot

Magister ...bolt of tzeentch 

10x pinks  ...Unchecked mutation

10x pinks ....bolt of Tzeentch

20 x acolytes

vortex beast 

spell portal

Cogs 

Balewind  

I've noticed my problems are at least 2 fold: 1 I sometimes forget certain abilities or summoning (a lot to keep track of),_2 not familiar with objective based gameplay (I focus more on surviving and killing more models). 

Appreciate any feedback 

You should give the Bolt of tzeentch to one of your best caster the LoC or the Summoner, You will want to reliably cast it every turn. 

You play 2*10 pinks so take the Pendulum to kill your owns pinks aiming for both units turn 1 and then make them come back with the 1 of your destiny dices with the bravery tests. You will get like 20 blues first turn, this help to bubble wrap and/or take control of objectives. You can use a fast caster like the blue scrib or the herald on disc or the shaman to project your blues far away. 

Not sure about the vortex beast as I never tried it. 

Eventually consider getting 6-9 Enlighteneds, they are really awesome for the point cost currently. 

[DavionStar]

Thanks, @Asimov. It might be a while before I start building it. (I actually OWE taxes this year, urg) But I might pick up a box of Tzanngors to get started at least. Also give me something different to paint since I've been working on my dorfs all this time.

I also want to look more into making some female Kairics. I've seen a few ideas around.

I might consider swapping out the Curseling or Gaunt for a Shaman for abilities. I just really love how those models look. XD;

One more question. Summoning is a thing. What extra models would be suggested for me to get for a 1k game?

[Asimov]

Glad I can help @DavionStar. 

Keep your summoner with familiars, he is really one of the best entry we have. 

I use mainly Blues and Brimstones for summoning, especially when playing with Pinks. Oterwise, I summon the Exalted Flamers which is not that expensive (12 fate pts) for having some nice shooting taht give MW. I summon the herald on disc if I need heroes for objectives. I summon the screamers if I need to take far away objective, help to kill a big guy or just poke an hidden character. But they are not that great by 3 to be honest. 

I have such a great time painting Tzeentch. I am actually afraid I will never get that much variety and fun with another army... 

[MattyP]

8 hours ago, Asimov said:

You should give the Bolt of tzeentch to one of your best caster the LoC or the Summoner, You will want to reliably cast it every turn. 

You play 2*10 pinks so take the Pendulum to kill your owns pinks aiming for both units turn 1 and then make them come back with the 1 of your destiny dices with the bravery tests. You will get like 20 blues first turn, this help to bubble wrap and/or take control of objectives. You can use a fast caster like the blue scrib or the herald on disc or the shaman to project your blues far away. 

Not sure about the vortex beast as I never tried it. 

Eventually consider getting 6-9 Enlighteneds, they are really awesome for the point cost currently. 

Thanks @Asimov. With this list I've got 1900 points and I'm considering a few things:

1. Spend more points in endless spells

2. Swap out the vortex beast and Acolytes for 2 more units of pinks 

3. Swap out the vortex beast for 1 unit of pinks and add endless spells 

Just some thoughts. I like the look and abilities of the vortex beast ( and all things tzeentch). I played skaven  last weekend and...... It was bad. Lol 

[Lord Slyght]

Apologies if this has already been covered in the topic....

the Gaunt Summoner with chaos familiars warscroll states you can summon a chaos daemon unit if near a realmgate. Unlike the GS on his own warscroll, it doesn’t specify that the unit has to be a basic unit of 10 lesser daemons. So - in theory - you could summon a LoC, or even Archeon! Has this been FAQ’d?

[mmimzie]

47 minutes ago, Lord Slyght said:

Apologies if this has already been covered in the topic....

the Gaunt Summoner with chaos familiars warscroll states you can summon a chaos daemon unit if near a realmgate. Unlike the GS on his own warscroll, it doesn’t specify that the unit has to be a basic unit of 10 lesser daemons. So - in theory - you could summon a LoC, or even Archeon! Has this been FAQ’d?

 

Here you are

Silver tower faq for all your gaunt summoner needs.

 

Even if it was super powerful no way to really bring a realmgate unless your friends let you being on for fun. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by mmimzie

[Lord Slyght]

Thanks! Surprised they haven’t updated the app with the change.

[Levvox]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

 

Here you are

Silver tower faq for all your gaunt summoner needs.

 

Even if it was super powerful no way to really bring a realmgate unless your friends let you being on for fun. 

its a shame in my opinion that his ability is borderline useless since no one wants to play with a realm gate ^^'

[Levvox]

kind of different question here: In skirmish every model is handled like a unit right ? does that mean pink horrors are individual mages? 

I'm asking because I played my first round yesterday and my tzaangor brayhorn was useable for all tzaangors in a 6" radius.  Does that mean  all models of a similar unit within a 6" radius of each other count as 1 unit therefore only one mage ?

[Drib]

Spoiler

13 hours ago, mmimzie said:

 

Here you are

Silver tower faq for all your gaunt summoner needs.

 

Even if it was super powerful no way to really bring a realmgate unless your friends let you being on for fun. 

 

The Gaunt Summoner with Familiars' Warscroll in the app is dated February 2019 (Keyword change from Arcanites to Arcanite). So RAW you could summon any Daemon using a Realmgate. But that's not RAI.

[Asimov]

18 hours ago, MattyP said:

Thanks @Asimov. With this list I've got 1900 points and I'm considering a few things:

1. Spend more points in endless spells

2. Swap out the vortex beast and Acolytes for 2 more units of pinks 

3. Swap out the vortex beast for 1 unit of pinks and add endless spells 

Just some thoughts. I like the look and abilities of the vortex beast ( and all things tzeentch). I played skaven  last weekend and...... It was bad. Lol 

The rule of cool always prevail! Honestly go for what you like and try things.  I am getting a Vortex Beast and I will give it a try once a receive it, for the sake of testing and having fun. 

More than 20 pinks may be too much to be competitive. Takes endless spells if you have a plan for them. Besides the usual suspects (vortex/cogs, pendulum/swords...) if you are list building against a specific opponent take what will be efficient, shackles against close combat, palissade against shooting... 
If not and you want a generic list, some endless spell wont be worth their cost because they will be dead pick against a majority of match ups

[mmimzie]

9 hours ago, Drib said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The Gaunt Summoner with Familiars' Warscroll in the app is dated February 2019 (Keyword change from Arcanites to Arcanite). So RAW you could summon any Daemon using a Realmgate. But that's not RAI.

Then you'd also have to use the apps ruling for how the familiars works as the app says your opponent picks who takes the wounds. 

[DavionStar]

Oh, I had a thought. I misread the rules on Tzaangors and Kairic Acolytes thinking that I could only (and only needed to) bring one shield. How many of my models should be carrying shields to make it worth it? Reminder that in my list I have a unit of 20 Acolytes and a unit of 10 Tzaangors.

Oh, another question since I'm still new to rules and stuff. If I give a Brayhorn or Scroll of Dark Arts to a model in the appropriate units, does that model not get any attacks, and just the Ability associated with it? And is there ever any reason not to take these?

Edited March 8, 2019 by DavionStar

[DiamondSwordGuy]

Thoughts on Flamers of 3xTzeench vs 3xTzangor Enlightened on Disk for a PtG campaign? Are enlightened good without a group of nine for fold reality? Flamers seem like they have no staying power. 

[CyderPirate]

6 hours ago, DiamondSwordGuy said:

Thoughts on Flamers of 3xTzeench vs 3xTzangor Enlightened on Disk for a PtG campaign? Are enlightened good without a group of nine for fold reality? Flamers seem like they have no staying power. 

I'd go with the Enlightened. The flamers fall over to a stiff breeze and their damage output is really inconsistent. 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

Hello! Do people have the base size for the endless spell umbral portal? This is off topic but y’all are always super helpful and I’d like to convert as it’s the only endless spell I want (already have the book as well)

also I saw somewhere that blue horrors are 100 points for 10 but my book is saying 50 points, was this updated somewhere I’m not aware of? (My book is an IBook that updates when new chnages occur so I thought it was fine)

[Murder Pancake]

Played in my first tournament (it was a doubles tournament) setting yesterday and took 2nd place with my partner. I have to admit that I've been very leery about playing DoT at lower points values and am surprised it went as well as it did. 

Spoiler

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders

Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak 

Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice 
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch

Battleline

10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
-Handweapon and Shield
-Hornblower
-Standard Bearer
-Mark of Tzeentch

10 x Tzaangors (180)
-Brayhorn
-Icon Bearers

Units

3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (100)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140)

Battalions

Endless Spells

Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 74

 

 

With the  game being small and objective based and only having minimum Enlightened, I brought the Ogroid instead of the Tzaangor Shaman to use his spell in the hope of spawning Brimstone Horrors.  I used the screamers to screen him from the front and followed up with the enlightened behind. Thermalrider Cloak was quite nice in that regard. I used the Chaos Warriors for Arcane Sacrifice targets since they have the 5-6 up save vs. Mortal Wounds. 
 

[kenshin620]

On 3/8/2019 at 9:48 PM, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

 

also I saw somewhere that blue horrors are 100 points for 10 but my book is saying 50 points, was this updated somewhere I’m not aware of? (My book is an IBook that updates when new chnages occur so I thought it was fine)

GHB 2018 are the latest source for point values for any battletome made before it.

[CountryMou3e]

I’ve been playing about with mark of the conjurer in recent games on the loc and I’ve found it quite good. Getting a herald on disc out early has been really useful for blue horror distribution 

[MrRoff]

How does it work when a tzeentch wizard "steals" an endless spell? 

Or if curseling unbinds an regular non alliance endless spell like "Quicksilver Swords" 

How does it all work if he don't own the model and such

Edited March 13, 2019 by MrRoff

[MrRoff]

On 3/9/2019 at 4:48 AM, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

 

also I saw somewhere that blue horrors are 100 points for 10 but my book is saying 50 points, was this updated somewhere I’m not aware of? (My book is an IBook that updates when new chnages occur so I thought it was fine)

Use the AoS app, it updates regularly and has all updated warscrolls and points. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by MrRoff

[Humanatee]

If a Gaunt Summoner uses Arcane Sacrifice or a Maelstrom to extend the range of his spell, does the part where it says 'every model in the target unit that is within 18' get extended too? It seems like it'd be pointless to extend the targeting range beyond 18 if the second part doesn't.

[mmimzie]

1 hour ago, Humanatee said:

If a Gaunt Summoner uses Arcane Sacrifice or a Maelstrom to extend the range of his spell, does the part where it says 'every model in the target unit that is within 18' get extended too? It seems like it'd be pointless to extend the targeting range beyond 18 if the second part doesn't.

yes it extends the range of models affected as well as per the designer commentary for the core rules under the distance section. 

 

2 hours ago, MrRoff said:

How does it work when a tzeentch wizard "steals" an endless spell? 

Or if curseling unbinds an regular non alliance endless spell like "Quicksilver Swords" 

How does it all work if he don't own the model and such

No as per the designer commentary for malign sorceries question 2. 

[Asimov]

Looks like Khorne is going to be a pain even more.  Warhammer Community Link
Skulls Endless spell (or the so call equivalent): -2 to cast it at 12'' of one. If you roll 8 and you are at 12'' of both you forget the spell and all wizards at 12'' get D6 (!) MW

The Skull altar: -1 to cast at 16'' 

I have a friend who plays khorne, I really consider playing against just to try smth with the least wizards possible... or just go StD. He would have invest in anti magical stuff and thus give me some advantage. But honestly it is gonna be impossible to align a magical heavy list I think