AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Devan]

8 minutes ago, Asimov said:

A list with Archaon where I get rid of the shrine and give it more punch and summonning power:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice 
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might 
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Archaon (660)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 97
 

The enlightened moove fast with the shaman sticking with them (it benefit from Wellspring of Arcane might if he sticks around the summoner)
20 Pinks to sacrifice with the pendulum
The vortex because it is cheaper than the cogs and the combo with Arcane sacrifice to get a spellcasting range of 33" 

Lol that's crazy, that is almost exactly what I was running before I changed it to what it is now. Without the cogs you can't charge turn 1 if going first on a 12" scenario which is a huge negative.  If you dont want to take treacherous bond for Archaon I would suggest Infusion Arcanum instead of just a Tzeentch bolt that your other casters could use. No need to take fold reality on two units either you will likely only cast it once in a game. The tzaangor enlightened and shaman were nice when I was playing them, the mobility is great, I tend to have to rely on summoned screamers now to grab far away objectives but obviously that's not as consistent. 

Also note that the added spell range can't be used for endless spells like the pendulum. You will still have to set it up wholly within 6" of the caster as per FAQ. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Devan
Added comment.

[Asimov]

7 minutes ago, Devan said:

Lol that's crazy, that is almost exactly what I was running before I changed it to what it is now. Without the cogs you can't charge turn 1 if going first on a 12" scenario which is a huge negative.  If you dont want to take treacherous bond for Archaon I would suggest Infusion Arcanum instead of just a Tzeentch bolt that your other casters could use. No need to take fold reality on two units either you will likely only cast it once in a game. The tzaangor enlightened and shaman were nice when I was playing them, the mobility is great, I tend to have to rely on summoned screamers now to grab far away objectives but obviously that's not as consistent. 

Also note that the added spell range can't be used for endless spells like the pendulum. You will still have to set it up wholly within 6" of the caster as per FAQ. 

I never looked to get to the close fast, I prefer usually to soften the opponent first with my spells, but actually it could really surprise my adversaries. 
True for the spells, Infusion Arcanum could really work well with Archaon. The double fold reality is overkill in most games. 
I use also the screamers to get to far away objectives. I rarely use the enlightened for that purpose, they usually focus on the big threats and then they clean up the remaining units. Sometimes they go for a remote character

Yes, I knew for the endless speel. I use the pendulum for the pinks anyway 

[Vaddix]

New Tzeentch player here post nerf. I noticed a lot of people use Chaos Warriors to fill out battleline but would a minimum size unit of 5 with great weapons be fine? I really don't like how Acolytes look and would avoid them like the plague. 

P.S I already have 30 Tzaangors but I'm looking for two more BL slots to fill. 

[Mo7650]

7 minutes ago, Vaddix said:

New Tzeentch player here post nerf. I noticed a lot of people use Chaos Warriors to fill out battleline but would a minimum size unit of 5 with great weapons be fine? I really don't like how Acolytes look and would avoid them like the plague. 

P.S I already have 30 Tzaangors but I'm looking for two more BL slots to fill. 

Need to have shields on them for me. 5 man units are not going to do much damage so at least they have the extra save.

Edit: just noticed that shield gives save against mortal wounds only but I’d still take shield.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Mo7650

[CountryMou3e]

What are peoples thoughts on the two herald options we can summon? I believe the foot one has a slightly better spell but the added mobility of the disc herald outweighs that for me.

[Asimov]

2 hours ago, CountryMou3e said:

What are peoples thoughts on the two herald options we can summon? I believe the foot one has a slightly better spell but the added mobility of the disc herald outweighs that for me.

I rarely summon an herald, if I do it is probably really early in the game to benefit of some additional spell punch (so option on foot seems better)

Or it would be because os the scenario, holding objos with heroes for example, and the mobility would be the key factor in that case. 

Both options are viable and cost the same amount of points. The additional attacks of the disc are not relevant so it will be either for the spell or the mobility and it will depends on your needs. 

[CountryMou3e]

20 minutes ago, Asimov said:

I rarely summon an herald, if I do it is probably really early in the game to benefit of some additional spell punch (so option on foot seems better)

Or it would be because os the scenario, holding objos with heroes for example, and the mobility would be the key factor in that case. 

Both options are viable and cost the same amount of points. The additional attacks of the disc are not relevant so it will be either for the spell or the mobility and it will depends on your needs. 

I don't normally summon much other then blues at the moment however, an exalted flamer turned out to be a good choice against a grot unit on Monday night!

[Asimov]

8 minutes ago, CountryMou3e said:

I don't normally summon much other then blues at the moment however, an exalted flamer turned out to be a good choice against a grot unit on Monday night!

Yes, I agree, blues mainly to flood the board and exalted to get some powerfull shoot . I summon screamers sometimes to get to far away objectives let alone by my opponent. Those deamons move at 16", with a run you can cover a lot of distance.

[CountryMou3e]

16 minutes ago, Asimov said:

Yes, I agree, blues mainly to flood the board and exalted to get some powerfull shoot . I summon screamers sometimes to get to far away objectives let alone by my opponent. Those deamons move at 16", with a run you can cover a lot of distance.

how many heroes are you running in your list ? My list has gone from one end having about 4-5 down to about 3! the lord of change has really impressed me the last 5-6 games ive used him

[Asimov]

13 minutes ago, CountryMou3e said:

how many heroes are you running in your list ? My list has gone from one end having about 4-5 down to about 3! the lord of change has really impressed me the last 5-6 games ive used him

Kind of the same. I used to run 4-5 heroes, now that i play the LoC I go for 3-4. My usual picks are the Gaunt with familiars, the LoC, and I take 1 or 2 among the Shaman, the Ogroid and the Magister. 

I find that with the Pink Sacrifice strategy, I have plenty of wizard to cast all the good spells and I don't need to over commit on the spell casting to summon. 

I am also giving (or will give) their chance to outsiders like the Curseling, the Charriot, Kairos, Blue Scrib and Changeling. For the sake of trying and having fun. 

[CountryMou3e]

13 minutes ago, Asimov said:

Kind of the same. I used to run 4-5 heroes, now that i play the LoC I go for 3-4. My usual picks are the Gaunt with familiars, the LoC, and I take 1 or 2 among the Shaman, the Ogroid and the Magister. 

I find that with the Pink Sacrifice strategy, I have plenty of wizard to cast all the good spells and I don't need to over commit on the spell casting to summon. 

I am also giving (or will give) their chance to outsiders like the Curseling, the Charriot, Kairos, Blue Scrib and Changeling. For the sake of trying and having fun. 

the cursling is awesome , but my trade in trade out at the moment is between the blue scribes or an extra 3 enlightened (making the unit 9!)

[Asimov]

25 minutes ago, CountryMou3e said:

the cursling is awesome , but my trade in trade out at the moment is between the blue scribes or an extra 3 enlightened (making the unit 9!)

I bet the curseling is good, but my usual opponent do not play much wizards, so he is pretty much useless at the moment. 
My blue scrib is still to be painted (and thus assembled), but he seems nice to play, better against some wizards. It may be my next painting project  
I was focusing on the charriots and flamers to try some battalions. I just finished my herald on charriot
 

[Curzex]

On 2/11/2019 at 9:19 AM, Asimov said:

A list with Archaon where I get rid of the shrine and give it more punch and summonning power:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice 
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might 
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Archaon (660)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 97
 

The enlighteneds move fast with the shaman sticking with them (he benefits from Wellspring of Arcane might if he sticks around the summoner)
20 Pinks to sacrifice with the pendulum
The vortex because it is cheaper than the cogs and the combo with Arcane sacrifice to get a spellcasting range of 33" 

Hi, if you want play with Archaon, the best way is with the Spell buff that give +1 hit +1 wound, for trigger Kingslayer 6+ ability. And obviously for Close Combat buff.

[Deadkitten]

10 hours ago, Asimov said:

I bet the curseling is good, but my usual opponent do not play much wizards, so he is pretty much useless at the moment. 
My blue scrib is still to be painted (and thus assembled), but he seems nice to play, better against some wizards. It may be my next painting project  
I was focusing on the charriots and flamers to try some battalions. I just finished my herald on charriot
 

Maybe get an ink on those metallics?

[Asimov]

6 hours ago, Deadkitten said:

Maybe get an ink on those metallics?

On the silvers?  Yes, on the photo it looks definitly needed
I inked the golden disc with Rekland fleshshade

[Geckilian]

Hi guys. Recently started again on my skirmish Chaos stuff and it's resulted in me considering my Tzeentch army again. Currently I was thinking of this -

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice 
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might 
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Lord of Change (380)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (140)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106
 

Not sure if massed acolytes for ablative wounds and staying power is worth trying over using pink horrors really, so any help would be greatly appreciated! 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Geckilian
Very undecided on list.

[Gilby]

I'd look into having a way to kill your own pinks to generate some blues (an endless spell).

 

Also wanted some advice, how many enlightened should you wait for before folding 6 back? Was thinking of running 2 units of 6, as whilst it'll mean I never get to bring as many back, it does give me some redundancy and splits the enemy's focus. Thoughts?

[Vaddix]

I have a question that has been boggling my mind. If I wanted to use the Phantasmagoria of Fate Battalion. Could units in that battalion be Generals and pay the Battleline tax? They would all have the Tzeentch Keyword, but them being in a Battalion throws me off. Also, could I double down and make a certain unit from the Battalion my General and unlock more Battleline? (e.g. Doombull unlocking Bullgors... of Tzeentch) 

[Magnus The Blue]

53 minutes ago, Vaddix said:

I have a question that has been boggling my mind. If I wanted to use the Phantasmagoria of Fate Battalion. Could units in that battalion be Generals and pay the Battleline tax? They would all have the Tzeentch Keyword, but them being in a Battalion throws me off. Also, could I double down and make a certain unit from the Battalion my General and unlock more Battleline? (e.g. Doombull unlocking Bullgors... of Tzeentch) 

Yes and yes, but don't forget the Doombull wouldn't be able to take any general ability from the Tzeetch book, they require key words it doesn't have.

[Malakithe]

Discussion. What are the chances of DoT getting a AoS 2.0 rework. Im thinking it could happen. 

[Asimov]

55 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Discussion. What are the chances of DoT getting a AoS 2.0 rework. Im thinking it could happen. 

I hope to see some points drop. Especially for the deamons like flamers and charriots. I think 10-20 points drop would be nice even though it might not be the most competitive entry as shooting is not in the best place in AoS 2.0

I expect a rise of points for the enlightened, a come back to 160 maybe. 

I am not sure they will touch the pinks though. They got the spotlight in the 1.0 and at 200 points they are still viable with sacrifice strategy. 

I wonder about the batallions which seems widely under used. Too expensive for their benefits, so points drop or rule change?

And I dream of a new BT with endless spells (come on it is Tzeentch we need them!) and a terrain! 

[AverageBoss]

I think flamers, exalted, chariots, and screamers just all need full rewrites honestly (along with the Fatemaster). They are all just incredibly flawed warscrolls, simultaneously being way too fragile and offense light for their cost while also lacking any support roles. I don't think points changes are going to fix them. Changeling and non-foot horrors need some tweaking as well, though to a far lesser extent.

Enlightened should go back up to 160 and I would like to see Skyfires drop to 180 given the modern state of the game, and their recent changes. I think the Ogroid should go back down to 160 as well. GS with Familiars should go up in points given it effectively has 4 more wounds and +1 to cast over the normal version. I still disagree with the LoC being 380 for what it currently brings to the table. I feel it should be a 3 spell caster at that point. I feel the Chaos Sorcerer Lord could also drop down a small bit as well.

[obmik1]

I agree with everything averageboss and Asimov have said. I honestly think we'll just see points changes though.

I just want all the endless spells and terrain features! Well of eternity for a terrain feature or summoned spell? Things that give us bonuses to casting? Deffo want a force multiplier. Yum yum. 

Force multipliers that effect the mortal and arcanites spell casters making them more viable....

And a book that actually means something. Not the thing I currently have.

Edited February 15, 2019 by obmik1

[NJohansson]

8 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

I think flamers, exalted, chariots, and screamers just all need full rewrites honestly (along with the Fatemaster). They are all just incredibly flawed warscrolls, simultaneously being way too fragile and offense light for their cost while also lacking any support roles. I don't think points changes are going to fix them.

This type of reasoning I really don’t understand (no offense meant). If an Exalted Flamer or Chariot would cost 10 points we would see spam list all over the place. Anything can be fixed with point changes, the hard part is to get it right (IMHO).

[MitGas]

11 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

I think flamers, exalted, chariots, and screamers just all need full rewrites honestly (along with the Fatemaster). They are all just incredibly flawed warscrolls, simultaneously being way too fragile and offense light for their cost while also lacking any support roles. I don't think points changes are going to fix them. Changeling and non-foot horrors need some tweaking as well, though to a far lesser extent.

Enlightened should go back up to 160 and I would like to see Skyfires drop to 180 given the modern state of the game, and their recent changes. I think the Ogroid should go back down to 160 as well. GS with Familiars should go up in points given it effectively has 4 more wounds and +1 to cast over the normal version. I still disagree with the LoC being 380 for what it currently brings to the table. I feel it should be a 3 spell caster at that point. I feel the Chaos Sorcerer Lord could also drop down a small bit as well.

Can you quickly get a job at GW just to pitch them those changes?