AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[obmik1]

1 hour ago, CountryMou3e said:

I cant see sky fires changing in price at all to be honest, they are appropriately pointed. But i totally agree the enlightened will go up , back to 160 is the most probable. I honestly don't think you need a big block of acolytes, they are chaff and do chaff well, knock it down to 10 and put the blue scribes in and your not far off what I run. 

6 enlightened wouldn't go amiss In your list, 9 is nice but overkill in most situations. (Subjective choice!)

The list needs bodies in my opinion. They are chaff. But they are body's, wounds. Body's win games... hopefully. That's why marauders would be so ideal, cheapest body's we can field. Ideal for the job. But I don't want to go out and buy them for the unit to change and get new models.

I would like to try tzaangors again, but I think that changes the list too much and will cost too much £££

[Asimov]

Tzaangors are pretty good. Nice tanking and nice swing. 
I find horrors to do the job nevertheless. Proactively killing your pinks provide a nice screen of blues that can suck up charges and buy you a turn or two to cast as many spells as you can. 

[Deadkitten]

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Herald of Tzeentch (140)
- Staff of Change
Herald of Tzeentch (140)
- Staff of Change
Lord of Change (380)
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (180)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)

Units
10 x Chaos Chosen (280)
10 x Blue Horrors of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Blue Horrors of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (70)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
 

Listhammer!  Not sure Multitudinous Host is worth it but I do sort of want to go with that feel.  I want a good close combat unit as a counter-strike reserve.  Blues/Brims as general screening.  I'd like the Brims to just be more Blues but I think the Gaunt Summoner is too good to pass up.  Too many characters?  Not sure I need the LoC either but I sort of want a centerpiece monster.  He seems fun. 

Thoughts?  

 

[CountryMou3e]

45 minutes ago, Deadkitten said:

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Herald of Tzeentch (140)
- Staff of Change
Herald of Tzeentch (140)
- Staff of Change
Lord of Change (380)
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (180)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)

Units
10 x Chaos Chosen (280)
10 x Blue Horrors of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Blue Horrors of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (70)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
 

Listhammer!  Not sure Multitudinous Host is worth it but I do sort of want to go with that feel.  I want a good close combat unit as a counter-strike reserve.  Blues/Brims as general screening.  I'd like the Brims to just be more Blues but I think the Gaunt Summoner is too good to pass up.  Too many characters?  Not sure I need the LoC either but I sort of want a centerpiece monster.  He seems fun. 

Thoughts?  

 

You don’t really have any damage threats outside of the gaunt / loc which if unbound , won’t do any damage. Is the list just what you have in models ? I’d highly recommend some enlightened (I’m a broken record here) , they’re very good right now  

couple of endless spells would help speed up your blue point generation and threat range of your casters 

Edited January 30, 2019 by CountryMou3e

[Deadkitten]

19 hours ago, CountryMou3e said:

You don’t really have any damage threats outside of the gaunt / loc which if unbound , won’t do any damage. Is the list just what you have in models ? I’d highly recommend some enlightened (I’m a broken record here) , they’re very good right now  

couple of endless spells would help speed up your blue point generation and threat range of your casters 

Chaos Chosen?  They seem pretty comparable:

5 Chosen for 3 A = 15 @ 3+/3+/-1/1 = 4.5 against a 4+ save

3 Enlightened for 3 A = 9 @ 4+/3+/-1/2 = 3.0 against a 4+ Save; and beaks 1A = 3 @ 4+/5+/-/1 = .5 for a total of 4.5 virtually identical.

 

Chosen are a tad cheaper with the 4+ save vs the 5+ and have an extra W.  Might not get all the Chosen in base to base and the Enlightened have the better reach at 2".  Again, Chosen seem to be filling the same role, but your overall point is well taken and was the first big weakness I looked to solve.  I have a hobby idea for the Chosen, FWIW.

I think I'm at change the first Herald to the Curseling, Drop the second, upgrade the Brims to Blues and add an Endless spell.  Prob Gravetide that can also gum up movement.  Need to run numbers and look at spells.

 

EDIT:  I did my calculation under the GHB 2018 pts.  Enlightened on foot got a 40 pts reduction in the Breyherd book.  That makes them the clear winner here I think.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Deadkitten

[obmik1]

1 hour ago, Deadkitten said:

Chaos Chosen?  They seem pretty comparable:

5 Chosen for 3 A = 15 @ 3+/3+/-1/1 = 4.5 against a 4+ save

3 Enlightened for 3 A = 9 @ 4+/3+/-1/2 = 3.0 against a 4+ Save; and beaks 1A = 3 @ 4+/5+/-/1 = .5 for a total of 4.5 virtually identical.

 

Chosen are a tad cheaper with the 4+ save vs the 5+ and have an extra W.  Might not get all the Chosen in base to base and the Enlightened have the better reach at 2".  Again, Chosen seem to be filling the same role, but your overall point is well taken and was the first big weakness I looked to solve.  I have a hobby idea for the Chosen, FWIW.

I think I'm at change the first Herald to the Curseling, Drop the second, upgrade the Brims to Blues and add an Endless spell.  Prob Gravetide that can also gum up movement.  Need to run numbers and look at spells.

Enlightened also have disc attacks, move 16 inches and can be effected by fold reality and if striking second all the rerolls. Overall the enlightened definitely win over chosen. 

 

Might I suggest blue scribes instead of the second Herald. He's a great force multiplier and has some other awesome rules to boot. And again. A 16 inch move.

 

Edit: I may also consider dropping the brimstone. That would give you the 80 points needed for a balewind and aethervoid pendulum.

 

Make the gaunt your general and give him arcane sacrifice on the balewind he has an impressive 3 spells at 33" and also kills d3 pinks or blues to farm points for summoning.

 

And use the pendulum against your pinks to also farm points for summoning. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by obmik1

[MrRoff]

Yo, just a little question about DoT battalions.
Is the point cost for battalions correct in the DoT battletome?

Because some of them seem super cheap like:

Arcanite Cabal - - 50p Warscroll Battalion
Arcanite Cult - - 60p Warscroll Battalion
Alter-kin Coven - - 20p Warscroll Battalion
Cult of the Transient Form - - 60p Warscroll Battalion
Skyshoal Coven - - 80p Warscroll Battalion
The Pyrofane Cult - - 80p Warscroll Battalion
Tzaangor Coven - - 40p Warscroll Battalion
Witchfyre Coven - - 60p Warscroll Battalion

Way way way way cheaper and stronger than any other army's battalions i can think of, has there been a point increase after the tome was released?
Is there anywhere one can see the correct point prices`?

Because on 1d4chan the prices are way up in the 180p range.

Really glad for an fast answer!

 

[Magnus The Blue]

Check the warscroll builder on the Warhammer community site for the correct points.  Basically everything in the DoT has had a price change at this point, generally massive points increases. 😥

[MitGas]

Well, as far as I know the points in the warscroll builder are the correct ones - https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/

We had so many changes to our rules/prices our tome is next to useless for the rules. 😂

[MrRoff]

Thanks you! Got a buddy who's been playing with 2-3 battalions with the prices from the tome, so he hade like 3 extra commandpoints and artifacts for shy 100p extra.
Thanks for the clarification!

 

Edit: I now also see that the correct point costs are in the Battlescribe app, is that a reliable source to use?

Edited January 30, 2019 by MrRoff

[Deadkitten]

1 hour ago, obmik1 said:

Enlightened also have disc attacks, move 16 inches and can be effected by fold reality and if striking second all the rerolls. Overall the enlightened definitely win over chosen. 

 

Might I suggest blue scribes instead of the second Herald. He's a great force multiplier and has some other awesome rules to boot. And again. A 16 inch move.

 

Edit: I may also consider dropping the brimstone. That would give you the 80 points needed for a balewind and aethervoid pendulum.

 

Make the gaunt your general and give him arcane sacrifice on the balewind he has an impressive 3 spells at 33" and also kills d3 pinks or blues to farm points for summoning.

 

And use the pendulum against your pinks to also farm points for summoning. 

Ah so not just Enlightened but the Enlightned on Discs.  Yes, that's a definite step up into calvary range.  They add the movement which my list does lack.  I'm not sure all the missions would even be winable which is troubling.  Thanks for your other comments.  I've only had the battletome for a couple days now.  

[CountryMou3e]

39 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

Thanks you! Got a buddy who's been playing with 2-3 battalions with the prices from the tome, so he hade like 3 extra commandpoints and artifacts for shy 100p extra.
Thanks for the clarification!

 

Edit: I now also see that the correct point costs are in the Battlescribe app, is that a reliable source to use?

Always go by the latest generals handbook or battletome 

[CountryMou3e]

1 minute ago, Deadkitten said:

Ah so not just Enlightened but the Enlightned on Discs.  Yes, that's a definite step up into calvary range.  They add the movement which my list does lack.  I'm not sure all the missions would even be winable which is troubling.  Thanks for your other comments.  I've only had the battletome for a couple days now.  

[MrRoff]

38 minutes ago, CountryMou3e said:

Always go by the latest generals handbook or battletome 

But the "latest" DoT battletome has the wrong pooint values for battalions

[obmik1]

2 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

But the "latest" DoT battletome has the wrong pooint values for battalions

Generals handbook is a different book. It contains all the points for all the armies as well as other bits like battle plans and allegiances. The current book is generals handbook 2018

[obmik1]

7 hours ago, Asimov said:

Tzaangors are pretty good. Nice tanking and nice swing. 
I find horrors to do the job nevertheless. Proactively killing your pinks provide a nice screen of blues that can suck up charges and buy you a turn or two to cast as many spells as you can. 

My main issue with just using pinks, as I am now, 3 u it's as my battle line. Is that I struggle to cap objectives with summoning. I feel a nice big block will provide me an opening screen from alpha and later provide bodies that can get into combat potentially to claim objectives.

[newsun]

4 hours ago, obmik1 said:

My main issue with just using pinks, as I am now, 3 u it's as my battle line. Is that I struggle to cap objectives with summoning. I feel a nice big block will provide me an opening screen from alpha and later provide bodies that can get into combat potentially to claim objectives.

Warriors are good battleline and hard to shift with their 4+/5++

[Asimov]

3 units of Pinks is maybe too much indeed. 1-2 are a good amount to benefit of the extra summoning. For the 3rd battle line a good tanky unit is definitly not a bad choice. 
The Chaos Warriors are indeed good tanks. Tzaangors last not as long but have a stronger impact. 
Marrauders are numerous but that's it, a good anti hord capacity and they shrink fast. The kairic are really just a bit better than marrauders but not worth taking in big units, just MSU to hold objectives or take a charge instead of your expensive units.

I found having Enligthened waiting just behind a cheap  unit is great as they get the reroll bonus to be in combat but not having taken any hit, they even get more pile in  options once the screen unit lost some bodies. This requires a good placement though. 

[Paniere]

On 1/25/2019 at 5:50 PM, Paniere said:

Hi all! I'm a new AoS player (despite being a wargamer for over 20 years now) and atm I'm a bit lost reading the corebook, general's handbook, DoT tome and all the errata. This said, I currently own the Silver tower models , 1X start collecting demons of T , 1X blue horrors&brimstones, 1X LoC. Since I've not mastered the rules yet, I'm asking for advices for putting together a 1k pts list, starting with what I got.  Also, if I'm short in points , which would the best new entries be? Thanks all for the help provided! 

 

Since my plea for help fell unheard , I'm changing the question: which units do you recommend as mandatory BOTH for 1k and 2k list? Looking forward to expand my actual pieces above with anything that could be used for 1k matches for a start but that won't be put apart in larger battles. Thanks all in advance

[MitGas]

17 hours ago, obmik1 said:

Make the gaunt your general and give him arcane sacrifice on the balewind he has an impressive 3 spells at 33" and also kills d3 pinks or blues to farm points for summoning.

Sorry for troubling you but how do you get the GS to cast 3 spells a turn? That would be truly awesome...

[Deadkitten]

1 hour ago, Paniere said:

Since my plea for help fell unheard , I'm changing the question: which units do you recommend as mandatory BOTH for 1k and 2k list? Looking forward to expand my actual pieces above with anything that could be used for 1k matches for a start but that won't be put apart in larger battles. Thanks all in advance

Well I'm starting with a ****** ton of Horrors.  I'm not a big fan of 300+ pt models at 1K but it is a thing so a LoC seems fine.    After that I'm on team Enlightened.    

[Deadkitten]

4 hours ago, Asimov said:

3 units of Pinks is maybe too much indeed. 1-2 are a good amount to benefit of the extra summoning. For the 3rd battle line a good tanky unit is definitly not a bad choice. 
The Chaos Warriors are indeed good tanks. Tzaangors last not as long but have a stronger impact. 
Marrauders are numerous but that's it, a good anti hord capacity and they shrink fast. The kairic are really just a bit better than marrauders but not worth taking in big units, just MSU to hold objectives or take a charge instead of your expensive units.

I found having Enligthened waiting just behind a cheap  unit is great as they get the reroll bonus to be in combat but not having taken any hit, they even get more pile in  options once the screen unit lost some bodies. This requires a good placement though. 

Has anyone tried running a block or two of 20 Pinks?  I must admit that as a newbie to DoT I cringe a bit at farming the Pinks.  That matters less to a big block. 

[obmik1]

1 hour ago, Paniere said:

Since my plea for help fell unheard , I'm changing the question: which units do you recommend as mandatory BOTH for 1k and 2k list? Looking forward to expand my actual pieces above with anything that could be used for 1k matches for a start but that won't be put apart in larger battles. Thanks all in advance

Gaunt Summoner is probably the first thing that springs to everyone's mind. Probably fits into every list, one of the strongest units in the tzeentch book. 

3 hours ago, Asimov said:

3 units of Pinks is maybe too much indeed. 1-2 are a good amount to benefit of the extra summoning. For the 3rd battle line a good tanky unit is definitly not a bad choice. 
The Chaos Warriors are indeed good tanks. Tzaangors last not as long but have a stronger impact. 
Marrauders are numerous but that's it, a good anti hord capacity and they shrink fast. The kairic are really just a bit better than marrauders but not worth taking in big units, just MSU to hold objectives or take a charge instead of your expensive units.

I found having Enligthened waiting just behind a cheap  unit is great as they get the reroll bonus to be in combat but not having taken any hit, they even get more pile in  options once the screen unit lost some bodies. This requires a good placement though. 

My only issue with chaos warriors and marauders is that darkoath is on the horizon and the models/rules may become obsolete. Marauders fit into my list so well! I have to be careful how I spend my money! I deffo want bodies though. 

15 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Sorry for troubling you but how do you get the GS to cast 3 spells a turn? That would be truly awesome...

Gaunt summoner on balewind vortex gives you an extra 6" range and 1 extra spell per turn. Couple with arcane sacrifice for another 9" range and reroll failed casting. Combined with pink horrors, super strong.

[MitGas]

Thanks for the answer - I don't see the extra spell on the online warscroll of the BWV but that is probably outdated. Either way, a Gaunt with three spells is amazing. The guy (and the LoC, though he's so damn expensive at almost 400 points...) is the one character that always does his job.

Edited January 31, 2019 by MitGas

[Asimov]

7 minutes ago, obmik1 said:

My only issue with chaos warriors and marauders is that darkoath is on the horizon and the models/rules may become obsolete. Marauders fit into my list so well! I have to be careful how I spend my money! I deffo want bodies though. 

I really hope your wrong, because I bet the other way ^^
I think the marauders are gonna get revamped and the chaos warrios may stay the same. I got the big StD battlebox already 😛 
Maybe what would content us both is if they redo both sets...