AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[CountryMou3e]

22 minutes ago, Kharneth said:

Pink Horrors cost 200 points, Quicksilver Swords costs 20 points: 220 points. If you're taking Pink Horrors without predatory endless spells than you're going to struggle. 

Pink Horrors become a useful unit when combined with Quicksilver Swords, Aethervoid Pendulum, The Burning Head, Destiny Dice of 1, and Fold Reality. 

I can vouch for this too although, I use swords/arcane sacrifice/fold reality as my little mill combo for my unit of pinks. Just be careful with the rest of your deployment though, I lost my cursling turn two to my on swords spell

[Kharneth]

31 minutes ago, CountryMou3e said:

I can vouch for this too although, I use swords/arcane sacrifice/fold reality as my little mill combo for my unit of pinks. Just be careful with the rest of your deployment though, I lost my cursling turn two to my on swords spell

I use Arcane Sacrifice, too. I switched from swords to pendulum because the pendulum can only move in forwards and backwards, so the placement is easier. I also prefer the 3.5 avg over the 4 avg because the pendulum's minimum roll is 1 whereas the swords can inflict 0 mortal wounds at times. Plus, the pendulum can be turned against the enemy later in the game whereas the swords are mostly only good against Chaos. 

Deployment is so tricky no matter what I do 😆

[Magnus The Blue]

4 minutes ago, Kharneth said:

I use Arcane Sacrifice, too. I switched from swords to pendulum because the pendulum can only move in forwards and backwards, so the placement is easier. I also prefer the 3.5 avg over the 4 avg because the pendulum's minimum roll is 1 whereas the swords can inflict 0 mortal wounds at times. Plus, the pendulum can be turned against the enemy later in the game whereas the swords are mostly only good against Chaos. 

Deployment is so tricky no matter what I do 😆

Pendulum can't go backwards, check the FAQ.  But yes, I find it far superior to swords and would happily take it even if I wasn't playing pinks.

[CountryMou3e]

1 minute ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Pendulum can't go backwards, check the FAQ.  But yes, I find it far superior to swords and would happily take it even if I wasn't playing pinks.

Didn’t have the points for the pendulum 🤷🏼‍♂️😁

[Kharneth]

@Magnus The Blue Oh, even better. 

Can the Pendulum be chosen not to move on a given turn? If it does not move, does it still damage units within 1" or no? I'm wondering what I have to do to guarantee damage on Pink Horrors. In the past I've been surrounding the Pendulum, but now I'll just stand in front of it. But to what extent can the enemy use the Pendulum to not hurt my Pink Horrors? If he loses initiative can be choose to make Pendulum do nothing?

@CountryMou3e Yeah, I hear you. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Kharneth

[newsun]

3 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Pendulum can't go backwards, check the FAQ.  But yes, I find it far superior to swords and would happily take it even if I wasn't playing pinks.

L O L they keep using this word Pendulum, I don't think it means what they think it means. FFS GW is so fail at times.

If they didn't put out great models and have such an established mythos they would surely fail as a company.

[mmimzie]

7 minutes ago, newsun said:

L O L they keep using this word Pendulum, I don't think it means what they think it means. FFS GW is so fail at times.

If they didn't put out great models and have such an established mythos they would surely fail as a company.

According to the malign sorceries lore, if i remember correctly, I do think they know what it means. Its just the pendulum swings are long. As its one big giant sweep across the battle field.

[Kharneth]

26 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

According to the malign sorceries lore, if i remember correctly, I do think they know what it means. Its just the pendulum swings are long. As its one big giant sweep across the battle field.

Honestly, that makes more sense than having it randomly switch directions. It also sounds like a worthless endless spell outside of the turn it's cast or when used to kill your own models. 

[Calypso2ts]

Although it does not have the same raw damage output that some of the other Endless Spells have, later in the game the Pendulum provides some area control/denial.  D6 Mortal wounds is nothing to laugh at, and it can force an interesting decision on where an opponent is willing to end their moves or add additional consideration to taking the first turn.

 

Furthermore, if you set it up running down an set of units, it is likely to get hits on multiple turns plus it is one of the few endless spells that you can dictate how your opponent will move it.

[Kharneth]

It moves 8" and has a 1" range with a ~ 1"x2" base. You can't even deny an objective with it, the enemy can just move to a place where they won't get hit because the only unknown factor of the pendulum's movement is how far along the 8" path it'll move. 

 

Can someone answer this, though?:

Can a player choose not to move the Pendulum? If so, does it deal damage to units within 1" or no? Also, do they block movement? I've been using them as blocking movement since it's unrealistic to place models where the endless spell model is located.

[newsun]

37 minutes ago, Kharneth said:

It moves 8" and has a 1" range with a ~ 1"x2" base. You can't even deny an objective with it, the enemy can just move to a place where they won't get hit because the only unknown factor of the pendulum's movement is how far along the 8" path it'll move. 

 

Can someone answer this, though?:

Can a player choose not to move the Pendulum? If so, does it deal damage to units within 1" or no? Also, do they block movement? I've been using them as blocking movement since it's unrealistic to place models where the endless spell model is located.

This is rather simple to logic. It can move 'up to 8"' so even if it must move, the amount moved can be so slight it's rather imperceivable.

[Kharneth]

3 minutes ago, newsun said:

This is rather simple to logic. It can move 'up to 8"' so even if it must move, the amount moved can be so slight it's rather imperceivable.

It only does damage if it moves. 

Scenario A) Enemy moves the Pendulum a tiny, tiny fraction of an inch, but both of my Pink Horrors are 1" away from it, so they each take d6 mortal wounds.

Scenario B) Enemy chooses not to move the Pendulum. Since it did not move it does no damage. 

The distinction is important to me. 

The wording says "it can move" and "if it moves it inflicts D6 mortal wounds," so can the enemy choose to pick the Pendulum and then not move it? Meaning even if I'm an inch away I won't take damage? 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Kharneth

[mmimzie]

26 minutes ago, Kharneth said:

It only does damage if it moves. 

Scenario A) Enemy moves the Pendulum a tiny, tiny fraction of an inch, but both of my Pink Horrors are 1" away from it, so they each take d6 mortal wounds.

Scenario B) Enemy chooses not to move the Pendulum. Since it did not move it does no damage. 

The distinction is important to me. 

The wording says "it can move" and "if it moves it inflicts D6 mortal wounds," so can the enemy choose to pick the Pendulum and then not move it? Meaning even if I'm an inch away I won't take damage? 

No all predstory endless spells must be moved before you can get back to turns. As per the predatory endless spell rules in malign sorceries. 

 

2 hours ago, Kharneth said:

Honestly, that makes more sense than having it randomly switch directions. It also sounds like a worthless endless spell outside of the turn it's cast or when used to kill your own models. 

Kind of yes kind of no. As it also project that forward line if damage, also depending on how you deploy it you can easily make it leave the table so you can just recast it again. 

 

Its a decent initaldmaage spell, but i think most of the damage endless spells aren't really worth there points for the damage alone.

[Kharneth]

@mmimzie oh, I see. Yeah the predatory rules imply that there is not a choice.

[Nos]

What sort of place are Tzeentch in at the moment? Just for the sake of friendly matched play, can they pull their weight sufficiently to avoid routinely losing, are they interesting to play?

I can get my hands on the Arcanite Battleforce fairly cheap so wondering about it. Love the models so that’s a big plus.

[RaritanAnon]

17 minutes ago, Nos said:

What sort of place are Tzeentch in at the moment? Just for the sake of friendly matched play, can they pull their weight sufficiently to avoid routinely losing, are they interesting to play?

I can get my hands on the Arcanite Battleforce fairly cheap so wondering about it. Love the models so that’s a big plus.

Just to throw my 2c in, I find Tzeentch to be largely broken on a fundamental level currently. Our summoning is the worst in the game, and we only have 2 or 3 units that are even worth taking in every list. Near everything is overcosted, or heavily outclassed by other armies options. There's a single command ability in the whole book, and very little synergy or buffing between it. 

I love tzeentch and I love the models, but they're sitting on a shelf til they get some TLC. 

[Magnus The Blue]

4 minutes ago, RaritanAnon said:

Just to throw my 2c in, I find Tzeentch to be largely broken on a fundamental level currently. Our summoning is the worst in the game, and we only have 2 or 3 units that are even worth taking in every list. Near everything is overcosted, or heavily outclassed by other armies options. There's a single command ability in the whole book, and very little synergy or buffing between it. 

I love tzeentch and I love the models, but they're sitting on a shelf til they get some TLC. 

Lol, I was about to say almost exactly the opposite!  In friendly play my Tzeetch (mostly deamons) are clocking in a 80%+ win rate and I think they are even reasonably good in competitive environments.  Sure they army book has some duds (the Chariots are shocking at the moment), but there are a few good builds and even some decent battalions.  The main problem I have with them is that the rules have been changed and updated so much that you need a tonne of FAQs and updated warscolls printed out in order to play with them.

Sure they aren't the neigh invincible monster that they were in AoS 1.0, but lots of armies have it much worse.

[CountryMou3e]

15 minutes ago, RaritanAnon said:

Just to throw my 2c in, I find Tzeentch to be largely broken on a fundamental level currently. Our summoning is the worst in the game, and we only have 2 or 3 units that are even worth taking in every list. Near everything is overcosted, or heavily outclassed by other armies options. There's a single command ability in the whole book, and very little synergy or buffing between it. 

I love tzeentch and I love the models, but they're sitting on a shelf til they get some TLC. 

The summoning is fine , you just have to work for it which takes people time to adjust. They don’t need any tlc , tweaks maybe, but that’s what the annual points adjustments are for. A refreshed tome just incorporating the latest scroll variations would be lovely but not critical 

[IRifter]

A friend of mine currently has the following minis:

-kairos Fateweaver

-20 acolytes

-30 tzangoors

-2 shamans

-1 curseling

-1 herald

-1 gaunt summoner

-1 chariot

-10 pink horrors

-3 flamer

- 3 screamer

-3 skyfires on disk

-3 enlightened on disk

 

He got most of that from the big box with all the tzaangors which he got as a present for christmas.

He can either build 3 more skyfires or 3 mor enlightened with or without disk. Which would you guys choose? Since i barely have any experience with tzeentch I thought it would be best to ask here to give him proper advice.

[Magnus The Blue]

Enlightened definitely, 3 Skyfires are enough to operate independently whereas 3 enlightened will quickly get whittled down to being ineffectively small (so work better in larger units). 

[IRifter]

3 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Enlightened definitely, 3 Skyfires are enough to operate independently whereas 3 enlightened will quickly get whittled down to being ineffectively small (so work better in larger units). 

Thank you  I´ll let him know

[Kharneth]

I'm having issues with playing a magic heavy summoning list. Lord of Change w/ Gryph charm & bolt of tzeentch; Gaunt Summoner w/ arcane sacrifice and glimpse; 2x10 pink horrors w/ fold reality and mutation; aethervoid pendulum.

I'm not entirely sure how to explain my issue, but in short I don't think I know how to place my summoned units effectively. I know it depends on the mission, which is part of what makes it difficult to figure out how to do it right. These are 3 things I've done and the issues I've had with them:

1. I go first and summon blue horrors on the mid-field objectives. Then my enemy charges them on his turn 1 and spends the rest of the game with multiple units within 9" of the objectives, making it difficult to reclaim them. 
2. I go first and summon blue horrors further away from the enemy so that he cannot get any charges off this turn, but they often find a way to do just that and then I end up with enemies right in front of my deployment zone for the entire game.
3. I go second, my opponent is close to the center of the board and when I summon I can't summon more than a few inches forward. 

I'm only playing 1,000 points and so I roughly have a guaranteed unit of blue horrors on my first turn and very likely a second one. Most missions either don't have objectives on turn 1 or the objectives are "off" on turn 1, so the majority of the time I don't need to be standing anywhere in particular on the first turn.

I almost always choose who goes first (I have 4 drops and haven't fought a battalion). What factors do you consider when you're choosing whether to go first or second? 

[newsun]

3 hours ago, Kharneth said:

I'm having issues with playing a magic heavy summoning list. Lord of Change w/ Gryph charm & bolt of tzeentch; Gaunt Summoner w/ arcane sacrifice and glimpse; 2x10 pink horrors w/ fold reality and mutation; aethervoid pendulum.

I'm not entirely sure how to explain my issue, but in short I don't think I know how to place my summoned units effectively. I know it depends on the mission, which is part of what makes it difficult to figure out how to do it right. These are 3 things I've done and the issues I've had with them:

1. I go first and summon blue horrors on the mid-field objectives. Then my enemy charges them on his turn 1 and spends the rest of the game with multiple units within 9" of the objectives, making it difficult to reclaim them. 
2. I go first and summon blue horrors further away from the enemy so that he cannot get any charges off this turn, but they often find a way to do just that and then I end up with enemies right in front of my deployment zone for the entire game.
3. I go second, my opponent is close to the center of the board and when I summon I can't summon more than a few inches forward. 

I'm only playing 1,000 points and so I roughly have a guaranteed unit of blue horrors on my first turn and very likely a second one. Most missions either don't have objectives on turn 1 or the objectives are "off" on turn 1, so the majority of the time I don't need to be standing anywhere in particular on the first turn.

I almost always choose who goes first (I have 4 drops and haven't fought a battalion). What factors do you consider when you're choosing whether to go first or second? 

Sounds to me like you are lacking a punchy unit or enough damage via spells with your list. Maybe consider changing things up a bit.

[Lughaidh]

Playing my baby Tzeentch army soon, seems like a lot of the units benefit from being within or wholly within an amount of inches from one another. Is this how Tzeentch is played? Should I be positioning my army as one big blob of models?

Note: My main army is Beastclaw Raiders. Plays way different. 

[mmimzie]

9 hours ago, Kharneth said:

I'm having issues with playing a magic heavy summoning list. Lord of Change w/ Gryph charm & bolt of tzeentch; Gaunt Summoner w/ arcane sacrifice and glimpse; 2x10 pink horrors w/ fold reality and mutation; aethervoid pendulum.

I'm not entirely sure how to explain my issue, but in short I don't think I know how to place my summoned units effectively. I know it depends on the mission, which is part of what makes it difficult to figure out how to do it right. These are 3 things I've done and the issues I've had with them:

1. I go first and summon blue horrors on the mid-field objectives. Then my enemy charges them on his turn 1 and spends the rest of the game with multiple units within 9" of the objectives, making it difficult to reclaim them. 
2. I go first and summon blue horrors further away from the enemy so that he cannot get any charges off this turn, but they often find a way to do just that and then I end up with enemies right in front of my deployment zone for the entire game.
3. I go second, my opponent is close to the center of the board and when I summon I can't summon more than a few inches forward. 

I'm only playing 1,000 points and so I roughly have a guaranteed unit of blue horrors on my first turn and very likely a second one. Most missions either don't have objectives on turn 1 or the objectives are "off" on turn 1, so the majority of the time I don't need to be standing anywhere in particular on the first turn.

I almost always choose who goes first (I have 4 drops and haven't fought a battalion). What factors do you consider when you're choosing whether to go first or second? 

As @newsun send you provably lack punch for who you are facing?? 

 

1k is weird as its very polarizing in how you want to play your tzeentch. As having a big punch unit contrast with having powerful summoning. Not much getting around it you can do. 

 

4 hours ago, Lughaidh said:

Playing my baby Tzeentch army soon, seems like a lot of the units benefit from being within or wholly within an amount of inches from one another. Is this how Tzeentch is played? Should I be positioning my army as one big blob of models?

Note: My main army is Beastclaw Raiders. Plays way different. 

This is sort of true a punch of squishy wizard and hammer units hiding behind chaffe. Some summoning and powerful spells.