AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Calypso2ts]

Had a chance to play my first few games of Age of Sigmar this weekend, was at a GT.  I have been following this thread so I figured I would share some thoughts.

 

Bottom Line Up Front:

-Enlightened hit like a truck, need to know how to split their attacks to use to full effect

-Gaunt Summoner makes those 40 man bricks disappear and when they are not totally gone, he effectively costs the enemy a Command Point

-Geminids are a steal and have a great cognitive effect on the enemy

-Be'Lakor's mind games are better than his CC ability

-Fold Reality can be backbreaking

 

List:

Gaunt Summoner (General)

-Arcane Sacrifice, Glimpse the Future

Lord of Change

-Tzeentch's Inferno, Baleful Sword, Wellspring of Arcane Might

Tzaangor Shaman

-Fold Reality

Be'Lakor (Strange choice, more to follow)

10x Pink Horrors

-Treason of Tzeentch

10x Pink Horrors

-Arcane Transformation (Poor choice, should have been Bolt or Unchecked Mutation)

10x Kairic Acolytes 

9x Tzaangor Enlightened

Geminids

Balewind Vortex

 

Initial Thoughts

I was banking on there being a large number of horde armies, especially Death.  I chose Treason and brought the Gaunt for that reason. Be'Lakor came in because I had him painted, this was a GT and I did not have the time to finish any other models.  I figured he would provide a melee threat, his Dark Master ability might come in handy and he could cast 2 spells.  Enfeeble Foe is also very good in general,  I brought the Pink Horrors for more casters - I underestimated how hard it is to really wrack up summoning points.  I also liked the idea of being able to drop 20-40 Blue Horrors around the board when the Pinks got eaten up.

Game 1 - Seraphon

He had a Slaan, Starpriest, Engine of the Gods, 2x Bastiladon and 20x Sequitur in a block.  The mission was Total Commitment.  We had a large castle on one side for terrain that I hid behind and I camped my objective that got pounded by the Bastiladon fire. I focused down the Skinks after the Enlighted and Lord of Change wiped nearly the whole Sequitur block in one turn.  From there I had lost my pinks to the Bastiladons so I rained them down on the right side objectives while pushing the Enlightened into his Dinosaurs.  I got a key double turn that helped me make up for some bad positioning and I was able to get the Slaan and two dinosaurs to steal his second objective.

I was impressed with the Enlightened and mortal wound output from the Lord of Change.  Noticed the LoC is terrible in combat, I chose poorly for Be'lakors ability and never got to use it.

 

Game 2 - Death, Legions of Nagash

He had a Mortarch (Mannfred maybe?), 4x Morghasts, 2 blocks of 40 Skeletons, 20 Grimghast Reapers and the usual array of support (necromancers, Vampire Loards,some dogs etc).  The mission is Better Part of Valor.  I learned from last time and setup my casters in more of a block with the Enlighted anchoring one flank and Be'Lakor on the other.  I nominate Mannfred as my target for Be'Lakor which was a terrible idea, I never have a good time to use his ability.

I start by trying to knock his skeletons low with the Gaunt Summoner but instead get myt 11 for Infernal Flames denied on box cars...with my own dice.  My opponents hands me a beer.  I make a mistake in deployment and he immediately razes my leftmost objective with his dogs.  I also try to fix it with Be'lakor vacating the flank that enables the Morghasts to nuke the Gaunt Summoner.  I wreck them with the Lord of Change's casting and advance into his skeletons on his right flank - wiping the unit.  I get a double turn here and move in to knock out Mannfred - I totally underestimate the damage done by Enlightened and kill him with only spears, leaving two Morghasts to counter charge. They do so with 40 Skeletons and wipe the unit.  I also find out that Legions of Nagash can return the whole unit of 40 from a gravesite..oops.  I am able to raze two of his objectives, however, and it comes down to me throwing out 20 Blue Horrors on my last home objective to keep it from being razed, I eat a number of charges.... He whiffs big time and I actually use petty vengeance to plink off skeletons and keep hold of my objective. 

This was a close game, minor win and I think I was able to play my way out of several major mistakes.  Exposing the Gaunt Summoners due to poor bubble wrap, neglecting an objective, overcommitting the Exalted to one target and a million other little mistakes.

Game 3 - Death, Legions of Nagash

He had the same army as Round 2 except he swapped had a Zombie Dragon instead of Mannfred.  The mission is Focal Points.  I play the same way but this time I protect the Gaunt Summoner and move in appropriately with the Exalted.  I also sit on grave sites to stop his resurrections and mortal wound down, where possible, his support character.  The highlight for me is when I activate Be'Lakors ability against the 30 Grimghast Reapers and they fail every roll to take an action for both our turns - the Exalted smash the unit to pieces, murder a vampire lord, wreck a full block of Skeletons while I use dead Horrors to throw Blues on backfield objectives to hold them and to sit on grave sites where necessary.

I take a minor loss, I had to wait for him to extend his army across the board so I could destroy those Skeleton blocks in detail.  I think I killed 120+ Skeletons this game with  the Gaunt Summoner, Lord of Change and Treason of Tzeentch.

Game 4 - Death, Legions of Nagash

I start to sense a pattern on this one. He has 2x Zombie Dragons, 40 Chainrasp, 30 Grimghast and an array of support characters.  The mission is Scorched Earth.  He vastly underestimates the damage the Enlightened and Gaunt Summoner can do.  I wipe his entire unit of Chainrasp turn 1 and assault into the Grimghast and kill them down to 6.  He has to burn his Command Point to save the Grimghast.  I fail to double turn - which would have probably won it there, and he throws the zombie dragon into the Enlightened.  Even with -2 to hit (Gryph Feather) the Enlightened do big damage to the Dragon since I attack second.  I lose 4 and have to burn a Destiny Dice.  On my turn I clinch it with Fold Reality for 6 Enlightened that get in range to burn his objective and then summon 3 Screamers to eat his center objective by advancing the Lord of Change.

Game 5 - Death, Flesheater Courts

He is running 3x Ghoul Kings on Zombie Dragon, Arkhan, and 3 minimum sized ghoul squads. The mission is Places of Power.  I misdeploy my Enlightened and they end up too far out of the main fight.  I also did not understand how his summoning mechanic worked, so I made some other deployment mistakes.  I was able to wipe two of the Zombie Dragons in spite of these mistakes but I was too far out of the scoring to make a comeback.  I end  up throwing down waves of Blue and Brimestone Horrors this game as speed bumps to his summoned troops.

The real highlight of this game is that I did not have many sources of single damage mortal wounds, I left a few of the Ghoul Kings on 2 or 3 wounds and let them push in deeper when a Bolt of Tzeentch could have finished the job. I also stole Curse of Years from Arkhan but forgot I had the rule...this could have been pretty epic.

 

After 5 Rounds Thoughts

I end up at 3 wins, 1 minor loss and 1 massacre loss for the tournament but more importantly I had a great time playing AOS.  There are definitely some list changes that would make thing works a bit better.  I would drop Be'Lakor and add a Curseling to the mix - there are some spells I wanted to steal and he can provide another Lore of Fate caster.  I am not sure how I would spend the remainder of his point, but if I can gt a unit of Skyfires in I thin kit would help with the single damage issue and kill off some characters as needed.  That might mean dropping a Horror unit for Acolytes to grab the balance of points.

The enlightened hit like a truck and the Gaunt Summoner is great for the current meta.  The enlightened are sneaky fast but I found they  need to be carefully supported and committed when there is some protection for them.  The other all start are the Geminids, they are insane with -1A debuffs being true all stars.  The ability to hit multiple units is icing on the cake.  I used them to protect the enlightened from counter strikes and they saved at least 1 or 2 discs a game.

 

I know this is long, thanks for bearing with me.  I hope there are some tidbits of value, glad to answer any more detailed questions on each game, I tried to keep it brief but informative.

[mmimzie]

1 hour ago, Calypso2ts said:

Had a chance to play my first few games of Age of Sigmar this weekend, was at a GT.  I have been following this thread so I figured I would share some thoughts.

 

Bottom Line Up Front:

-Enlightened hit like a truck, need to know how to split their attacks to use to full effect

-Gaunt Summoner makes those 40 man bricks disappear and when they are not totally gone, he effectively costs the enemy a Command Point

-Geminids are a steal and have a great cognitive effect on the enemy

-Be'Lakor's mind games are better than his CC ability

-Fold Reality can be backbreaking

 

List:

Gaunt Summoner (General)

-Arcane Sacrifice, Glimpse the Future

Lord of Change

-Tzeentch's Inferno, Baleful Sword, Wellspring of Arcane Might

Tzaangor Shaman

-Fold Reality

Be'Lakor (Strange choice, more to follow)

10x Pink Horrors

-Treason of Tzeentch

10x Pink Horrors

-Arcane Transformation (Poor choice, should have been Bolt or Unchecked Mutation)

10x Kairic Acolytes 

9x Tzaangor Enlightened

Geminids

Balewind Vortex

 

Initial Thoughts

I was banking on there being a large number of horde armies, especially Death.  I chose Treason and brought the Gaunt for that reason. Be'Lakor came in because I had him painted, this was a GT and I did not have the time to finish any other models.  I figured he would provide a melee threat, his Dark Master ability might come in handy and he could cast 2 spells.  Enfeeble Foe is also very good in general,  I brought the Pink Horrors for more casters - I underestimated how hard it is to really wrack up summoning points.  I also liked the idea of being able to drop 20-40 Blue Horrors around the board when the Pinks got eaten up.

Game 1 - Seraphon

He had a Slaan, Starpriest, Engine of the Gods, 2x Bastiladon and 20x Sequitur in a block.  The mission was Total Commitment.  We had a large castle on one side for terrain that I hid behind and I camped my objective that got pounded by the Bastiladon fire. I focused down the Skinks after the Enlighted and Lord of Change wiped nearly the whole Sequitur block in one turn.  From there I had lost my pinks to the Bastiladons so I rained them down on the right side objectives while pushing the Enlightened into his Dinosaurs.  I got a key double turn that helped me make up for some bad positioning and I was able to get the Slaan and two dinosaurs to steal his second objective.

I was impressed with the Enlightened and mortal wound output from the Lord of Change.  Noticed the LoC is terrible in combat, I chose poorly for Be'lakors ability and never got to use it.

 

Game 2 - Death, Legions of Nagash

He had a Mortarch (Mannfred maybe?), 4x Morghasts, 2 blocks of 40 Skeletons, 20 Grimghast Reapers and the usual array of support (necromancers, Vampire Loards,some dogs etc).  The mission is Better Part of Valor.  I learned from last time and setup my casters in more of a block with the Enlighted anchoring one flank and Be'Lakor on the other.  I nominate Mannfred as my target for Be'Lakor which was a terrible idea, I never have a good time to use his ability.

I start by trying to knock his skeletons low with the Gaunt Summoner but instead get myt 11 for Infernal Flames denied on box cars...with my own dice.  My opponents hands me a beer.  I make a mistake in deployment and he immediately razes my leftmost objective with his dogs.  I also try to fix it with Be'lakor vacating the flank that enables the Morghasts to nuke the Gaunt Summoner.  I wreck them with the Lord of Change's casting and advance into his skeletons on his right flank - wiping the unit.  I get a double turn here and move in to knock out Mannfred - I totally underestimate the damage done by Enlightened and kill him with only spears, leaving two Morghasts to counter charge. They do so with 40 Skeletons and wipe the unit.  I also find out that Legions of Nagash can return the whole unit of 40 from a gravesite..oops.  I am able to raze two of his objectives, however, and it comes down to me throwing out 20 Blue Horrors on my last home objective to keep it from being razed, I eat a number of charges.... He whiffs big time and I actually use petty vengeance to plink off skeletons and keep hold of my objective. 

This was a close game, minor win and I think I was able to play my way out of several major mistakes.  Exposing the Gaunt Summoners due to poor bubble wrap, neglecting an objective, overcommitting the Exalted to one target and a million other little mistakes.

Game 3 - Death, Legions of Nagash

He had the same army as Round 2 except he swapped had a Zombie Dragon instead of Mannfred.  The mission is Focal Points.  I play the same way but this time I protect the Gaunt Summoner and move in appropriately with the Exalted.  I also sit on grave sites to stop his resurrections and mortal wound down, where possible, his support character.  The highlight for me is when I activate Be'Lakors ability against the 30 Grimghast Reapers and they fail every roll to take an action for both our turns - the Exalted smash the unit to pieces, murder a vampire lord, wreck a full block of Skeletons while I use dead Horrors to throw Blues on backfield objectives to hold them and to sit on grave sites where necessary.

I take a minor loss, I had to wait for him to extend his army across the board so I could destroy those Skeleton blocks in detail.  I think I killed 120+ Skeletons this game with  the Gaunt Summoner, Lord of Change and Treason of Tzeentch.

Game 4 - Death, Legions of Nagash

I start to sense a pattern on this one. He has 2x Zombie Dragons, 40 Chainrasp, 30 Grimghast and an array of support characters.  The mission is Scorched Earth.  He vastly underestimates the damage the Enlightened and Gaunt Summoner can do.  I wipe his entire unit of Chainrasp turn 1 and assault into the Grimghast and kill them down to 6.  He has to burn his Command Point to save the Grimghast.  I fail to double turn - which would have probably won it there, and he throws the zombie dragon into the Enlightened.  Even with -2 to hit (Gryph Feather) the Enlightened do big damage to the Dragon since I attack second.  I lose 4 and have to burn a Destiny Dice.  On my turn I clinch it with Fold Reality for 6 Enlightened that get in range to burn his objective and then summon 3 Screamers to eat his center objective by advancing the Lord of Change.

Game 5 - Death, Flesheater Courts

He is running 3x Ghoul Kings on Zombie Dragon, Arkhan, and 3 minimum sized ghoul squads. The mission is Places of Power.  I misdeploy my Enlightened and they end up too far out of the main fight.  I also did not understand how his summoning mechanic worked, so I made some other deployment mistakes.  I was able to wipe two of the Zombie Dragons in spite of these mistakes but I was too far out of the scoring to make a comeback.  I end  up throwing down waves of Blue and Brimestone Horrors this game as speed bumps to his summoned troops.

The real highlight of this game is that I did not have many sources of single damage mortal wounds, I left a few of the Ghoul Kings on 2 or 3 wounds and let them push in deeper when a Bolt of Tzeentch could have finished the job. I also stole Curse of Years from Arkhan but forgot I had the rule...this could have been pretty epic.

 

After 5 Rounds Thoughts

I end up at 3 wins, 1 minor loss and 1 massacre loss for the tournament but more importantly I had a great time playing AOS.  There are definitely some list changes that would make thing works a bit better.  I would drop Be'Lakor and add a Curseling to the mix - there are some spells I wanted to steal and he can provide another Lore of Fate caster.  I am not sure how I would spend the remainder of his point, but if I can gt a unit of Skyfires in I thin kit would help with the single damage issue and kill off some characters as needed.  That might mean dropping a Horror unit for Acolytes to grab the balance of points.

The enlightened hit like a truck and the Gaunt Summoner is great for the current meta.  The enlightened are sneaky fast but I found they  need to be carefully supported and committed when there is some protection for them.  The other all start are the Geminids, they are insane with -1A debuffs being true all stars.  The ability to hit multiple units is icing on the cake.  I used them to protect the enlightened from counter strikes and they saved at least 1 or 2 discs a game.

 

I know this is long, thanks for bearing with me.  I hope there are some tidbits of value, glad to answer any more detailed questions on each game, I tried to keep it brief but informative.

A note gaunt summoner is good is most if not all metas as even against only a 10 man squad he drops and average 5 mortal wounds which is more than most other spells can do.  The meta would have to shift pretty hard toward just big models for the gaunt summoner to start struggling to find a use for his particularly powerful spell, and even failing that he is a two spell wizards for only 180 pts and gets +1 to cast. 

Do you think at any time going to 6 enlightend over 9 might have been better?????
 So far i feel 9 is idea, not only is it our number <.< and as such just feels right, but it gives lots of space for fold reality, that same it makes fold reality with only 2 or 3 dead kind of feel like a huge gamble, and geting all 9 into combat can be abit of a struggle. 

 

LOC felt like he was worth while with out the mark of conjuration???
He is definitly jsut there for his spells and small shooting attack support, he does have a nice spell that is almost tailor made for killing small heros like necromancers and hags.  I like pairing him with the spell portal, as it give him with cogs as the extra spell and re-roll to save makes him more deadly and durable. Also has synergy with mark of conjuration. 

Did you find the pinks worth using without a way to kill them yourself??? 

 

[P'tarix]

I know that Fateweaver is not worth it over a lord of change, but would it be possible to make him work with the following combination?

Fateweaver

Magister with treacherous bond

30 pink horrors

Cogs

Basically the idea is to put the fateweaver onto the frontline with cogs active and cast two spawn creating spells as well as treacherous bond on the pinks.

Could also combine it with insurance (to not roll a 1) for fold reality on enlightened and possibly even a purple sun 6+ snipe?

[P'tarix]

7 hours ago, Calypso2ts said:

Had a chance to play my first few games of Age of Sigmar this weekend, was at a GT.  I have been following this thread so I figured I would share some thoughts.

 

Bottom Line Up Front:

-Enlightened hit like a truck, need to know how to split their attacks to use to full effect

-Gaunt Summoner makes those 40 man bricks disappear and when they are not totally gone, he effectively costs the enemy a Command Point

-Geminids are a steal and have a great cognitive effect on the enemy

-Be'Lakor's mind games are better than his CC ability

-Fold Reality can be backbreaking

 

List:

Gaunt Summoner (General)

-Arcane Sacrifice, Glimpse the Future

Lord of Change

-Tzeentch's Inferno, Baleful Sword, Wellspring of Arcane Might

Tzaangor Shaman

-Fold Reality

Be'Lakor (Strange choice, more to follow)

10x Pink Horrors

-Treason of Tzeentch

10x Pink Horrors

-Arcane Transformation (Poor choice, should have been Bolt or Unchecked Mutation)

10x Kairic Acolytes 

9x Tzaangor Enlightened

Geminids

Balewind Vortex

 

Initial Thoughts

I was banking on there being a large number of horde armies, especially Death.  I chose Treason and brought the Gaunt for that reason. Be'Lakor came in because I had him painted, this was a GT and I did not have the time to finish any other models.  I figured he would provide a melee threat, his Dark Master ability might come in handy and he could cast 2 spells.  Enfeeble Foe is also very good in general,  I brought the Pink Horrors for more casters - I underestimated how hard it is to really wrack up summoning points.  I also liked the idea of being able to drop 20-40 Blue Horrors around the board when the Pinks got eaten up.

Game 1 - Seraphon

He had a Slaan, Starpriest, Engine of the Gods, 2x Bastiladon and 20x Sequitur in a block.  The mission was Total Commitment.  We had a large castle on one side for terrain that I hid behind and I camped my objective that got pounded by the Bastiladon fire. I focused down the Skinks after the Enlighted and Lord of Change wiped nearly the whole Sequitur block in one turn.  From there I had lost my pinks to the Bastiladons so I rained them down on the right side objectives while pushing the Enlightened into his Dinosaurs.  I got a key double turn that helped me make up for some bad positioning and I was able to get the Slaan and two dinosaurs to steal his second objective.

I was impressed with the Enlightened and mortal wound output from the Lord of Change.  Noticed the LoC is terrible in combat, I chose poorly for Be'lakors ability and never got to use it.

 

Game 2 - Death, Legions of Nagash

He had a Mortarch (Mannfred maybe?), 4x Morghasts, 2 blocks of 40 Skeletons, 20 Grimghast Reapers and the usual array of support (necromancers, Vampire Loards,some dogs etc).  The mission is Better Part of Valor.  I learned from last time and setup my casters in more of a block with the Enlighted anchoring one flank and Be'Lakor on the other.  I nominate Mannfred as my target for Be'Lakor which was a terrible idea, I never have a good time to use his ability.

I start by trying to knock his skeletons low with the Gaunt Summoner but instead get myt 11 for Infernal Flames denied on box cars...with my own dice.  My opponents hands me a beer.  I make a mistake in deployment and he immediately razes my leftmost objective with his dogs.  I also try to fix it with Be'lakor vacating the flank that enables the Morghasts to nuke the Gaunt Summoner.  I wreck them with the Lord of Change's casting and advance into his skeletons on his right flank - wiping the unit.  I get a double turn here and move in to knock out Mannfred - I totally underestimate the damage done by Enlightened and kill him with only spears, leaving two Morghasts to counter charge. They do so with 40 Skeletons and wipe the unit.  I also find out that Legions of Nagash can return the whole unit of 40 from a gravesite..oops.  I am able to raze two of his objectives, however, and it comes down to me throwing out 20 Blue Horrors on my last home objective to keep it from being razed, I eat a number of charges.... He whiffs big time and I actually use petty vengeance to plink off skeletons and keep hold of my objective. 

This was a close game, minor win and I think I was able to play my way out of several major mistakes.  Exposing the Gaunt Summoners due to poor bubble wrap, neglecting an objective, overcommitting the Exalted to one target and a million other little mistakes.

Game 3 - Death, Legions of Nagash

He had the same army as Round 2 except he swapped had a Zombie Dragon instead of Mannfred.  The mission is Focal Points.  I play the same way but this time I protect the Gaunt Summoner and move in appropriately with the Exalted.  I also sit on grave sites to stop his resurrections and mortal wound down, where possible, his support character.  The highlight for me is when I activate Be'Lakors ability against the 30 Grimghast Reapers and they fail every roll to take an action for both our turns - the Exalted smash the unit to pieces, murder a vampire lord, wreck a full block of Skeletons while I use dead Horrors to throw Blues on backfield objectives to hold them and to sit on grave sites where necessary.

I take a minor loss, I had to wait for him to extend his army across the board so I could destroy those Skeleton blocks in detail.  I think I killed 120+ Skeletons this game with  the Gaunt Summoner, Lord of Change and Treason of Tzeentch.

Game 4 - Death, Legions of Nagash

I start to sense a pattern on this one. He has 2x Zombie Dragons, 40 Chainrasp, 30 Grimghast and an array of support characters.  The mission is Scorched Earth.  He vastly underestimates the damage the Enlightened and Gaunt Summoner can do.  I wipe his entire unit of Chainrasp turn 1 and assault into the Grimghast and kill them down to 6.  He has to burn his Command Point to save the Grimghast.  I fail to double turn - which would have probably won it there, and he throws the zombie dragon into the Enlightened.  Even with -2 to hit (Gryph Feather) the Enlightened do big damage to the Dragon since I attack second.  I lose 4 and have to burn a Destiny Dice.  On my turn I clinch it with Fold Reality for 6 Enlightened that get in range to burn his objective and then summon 3 Screamers to eat his center objective by advancing the Lord of Change.

Game 5 - Death, Flesheater Courts

He is running 3x Ghoul Kings on Zombie Dragon, Arkhan, and 3 minimum sized ghoul squads. The mission is Places of Power.  I misdeploy my Enlightened and they end up too far out of the main fight.  I also did not understand how his summoning mechanic worked, so I made some other deployment mistakes.  I was able to wipe two of the Zombie Dragons in spite of these mistakes but I was too far out of the scoring to make a comeback.  I end  up throwing down waves of Blue and Brimestone Horrors this game as speed bumps to his summoned troops.

The real highlight of this game is that I did not have many sources of single damage mortal wounds, I left a few of the Ghoul Kings on 2 or 3 wounds and let them push in deeper when a Bolt of Tzeentch could have finished the job. I also stole Curse of Years from Arkhan but forgot I had the rule...this could have been pretty epic.

 

After 5 Rounds Thoughts

I end up at 3 wins, 1 minor loss and 1 massacre loss for the tournament but more importantly I had a great time playing AOS.  There are definitely some list changes that would make thing works a bit better.  I would drop Be'Lakor and add a Curseling to the mix - there are some spells I wanted to steal and he can provide another Lore of Fate caster.  I am not sure how I would spend the remainder of his point, but if I can gt a unit of Skyfires in I thin kit would help with the single damage issue and kill off some characters as needed.  That might mean dropping a Horror unit for Acolytes to grab the balance of points.

The enlightened hit like a truck and the Gaunt Summoner is great for the current meta.  The enlightened are sneaky fast but I found they  need to be carefully supported and committed when there is some protection for them.  The other all start are the Geminids, they are insane with -1A debuffs being true all stars.  The ability to hit multiple units is icing on the cake.  I used them to protect the enlightened from counter strikes and they saved at least 1 or 2 discs a game.

 

I know this is long, thanks for bearing with me.  I hope there are some tidbits of value, glad to answer any more detailed questions on each game, I tried to keep it brief but informative.

Hmm, I can't see how you can ally Be'lakor into a Tzeentch army, as he doesn't have any of the allowed ally keywords (Slaves to Darkness, Beasts of Chaos, Monsters of Chaos, Everchosen). Also am I the only one that finds it strange that Slaanesh army can take Tzeentch allies, but Tzeentch can't take Slaanesh allies? (same with Legion of Asgorn)

[Calypso2ts]

1 hour ago, P'tarix said:

Hmm, I can't see how you can ally Be'lakor into a Tzeentch army, as he doesn't have any of the allowed ally keywords (Slaves to Darkness, Beasts of Chaos, Monsters of Chaos, Everchosen). Also am I the only one that finds it strange that Slaanesh army can take Tzeentch allies, but Tzeentch can't take Slaanesh allies? (same with Legion of Asgorn)

 

I checked with he judges ahead of time and they were okay with it- the fact that he only has the Chaos keyword makes him hard to use in general.  It was also not viewed as particularly backbreaking.  Thanks for the input and that is an interesting artifact in the Slaanesh/Tzeentch interaction.

 

 

[Calypso2ts]

7 hours ago, mmimzie said:

A note gaunt summoner is good is most if not all metas as even against only a 10 man squad he drops and average 5 mortal wounds which is more than most other spells can do.  The meta would have to shift pretty hard toward just big models for the gaunt summoner to start struggling to find a use for his particularly powerful spell, and even failing that he is a two spell wizards for only 180 pts and gets +1 to cast. 

Do you think at any time going to 6 enlightend over 9 might have been better?????
 So far i feel 9 is idea, not only is it our number <.< and as such just feels right, but it gives lots of space for fold reality, that same it makes fold reality with only 2 or 3 dead kind of feel like a huge gamble, and geting all 9 into combat can be abit of a struggle. 

 

LOC felt like he was worth while with out the mark of conjuration???
He is definitly jsut there for his spells and small shooting attack support, he does have a nice spell that is almost tailor made for killing small heros like necromancers and hags.  I like pairing him with the spell portal, as it give him with cogs as the extra spell and re-roll to save makes him more deadly and durable. Also has synergy with mark of conjuration. 

Did you find the pinks worth using without a way to kill them yourself??? 

 

On Gaunt Summoner

Agreed, he is generally good and with a little extra range Infernal Flames is usually a 4-6 MW shot.  He effectively cost 220 for me because I brought the Vortex for him.

On Pink Horrors

I used Arcane Sacrifice to kill off a few Pink Horrors, but that does not knock them out at a particularly quick pace.  I used them as a screen for the most part and what I appreciated was after they evaporated being able to drop in another 20 Blues near an area that the Englightened had cleared for area denial.  I also used them a few times for long charges to get onto objectives held by 5-6 models.  With the Lord of Change moving 12", summoning out 12" and a charge of 9" (assuming it is made) that is alot of reach towards objectives (31").

On Enlightened

I htink 9 is required just to make sure there are enough left to Fold Reality or hit back when they get counter charged.  I had a few games where a DD 1 or 2 on Battleshock let me keep them around to bring back some more with Fold.  I also found I only cast it twice in 5 games - my own mistakes meant they were wiped in 2 of them from counter charges and in the last the Shaman got sniped before he could help them out.

On Lord of Change

I think the Lord of Change was worth it - but my experience level is not that high.  His Command Ability was useful once I did not need the extra range on the Summoner and Wellspring of Arcane Might helps quite a bit on casting.  He was (for most games) a MW factory, one that I kept by the Pinks as a screen.  He also has great efficiency with Destiny Dice for casting.

 

[Asimov]

Thanks guys for the last reports and also for the stats, very informative. 

I am going to play against Slaves to Darkness tomorrow in a 1500 points game. It will  probably include a Lord on Manticore, a mounted Sorcerer, a mounted lord, 10 mounted Chaos Knights, 2*5 mounted Marauders, 2 gorebeast charriots and the filling with Chaos warriors. 
 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice 
- Artefact: Mark of the Conjurer 
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Magister (140)
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1500 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 78
 

I just acquired Malign Sorcery (YEAH!!!),  so I am going to try out the chronomatic cogs. As against Order Draconis,  I will try my best to bubble wrap those squishy mages from charges, and I will throw the enlightened for counter charge. I will try to use the Chaos Spawns and Brimstones to glue down some units. Using the blue horrors for objectives and maybe summoning an herald on disc if I get enough early points... or screamers/flamers depending on the needs. 

 

Do you guys have any comments or suggestions?

[mmimzie]

2 hours ago, Asimov said:

Thanks guys for the last reports and also for the stats, very informative. 

I am going to play against Slaves to Darkness tomorrow in a 1500 points game. It will  probably include a Lord on Manticore, a mounted Sorcerer, a mounted lord, 10 mounted Chaos Knights, 2*5 mounted Marauders, 2 gorebeast charriots and the filling with Chaos warriors. 
 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice 
- Artefact: Mark of the Conjurer 
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Magister (140)
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1500 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 78
 

I just acquired Malign Sorcery (YEAH!!!),  so I am going to try out the chronomatic cogs. As against Order Draconis,  I will try my best to bubble wrap those squishy mages from charges, and I will throw the enlightened for counter charge. I will try to use the Chaos Spawns and Brimstones to glue down some units. Using the blue horrors for objectives and maybe summoning an herald on disc if I get enough early points... or screamers/flamers depending on the needs. 

 

Do you guys have any comments or suggestions?

Let's see. 

 

For the gaunt summoner I'd take arcane sacrifice. The ability to kill your own pinks and the bonus range is tradmendous. Mark of conjuration to me is LoC exclusive as doubles are un reliable.  Spell wise I'd also give the gaunt summoner either treacherous bond, bolt of tzneetch, or uncheck mutation. I lean toward mutation as your bonus range combined with the summoners on spell can really help you kill stuff. 

 

Cogs are great, but I dont like them here. I think if cogs as a balewind vortex for a LoC. Where as the gaunt summoner could just get a valet wind vortex. The bonus range could compound your early game threat level. 

 

If you take the vortex you could also take quick silver swords. With the swords you can kill your own horrors and then heal them with fold reality and battle shock test. Allowing you to reap the rewards of your horrors sooner. 

 

 

Last horrors might do better having unchecked mutation and/or bolt of tzneetch. A horror unit you fold reality on turn 1, I believe, can sneak into range to attempt to cast either of those spells..since they roll around at almost always +1 to cast bolt of tzneetch becomes abit morereliable.

 

 

Anywho the list looks mostly solid as is. Those are just my few coins thrown into the pile. Good luck.

[newsun]

Thoughts on this list.

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
Lord Of Change (380)
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)
Soul Grinder (260)
Mutalith Vortex Beast (200)
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
 

[HMB]

Hello Disciples

Here's a list I built just today. I know is not too competitive but it would be very beautiful on the field. I really love Slave to Darkness so i wanna try to run this two list

Slave to Tzeentch
Allegiance: Tzeentch - Mortal Realm: Ulgu

LEADERS
Chaos Lord On Manticore (250)
- General
- Command Trait : Illusionist
- Blade & Lance
- Artefact : Dimensional Blade

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate

Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm

Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)

UNITS
20 x Chaos Marauders (120)
-Axes and Shield
- Damned Icon

2 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (200)
-Greatblade

1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)

10 x Chaos Knights (320)
-Chaos glaives

10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
-Hand Weapon & Shield

10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
-Hand Weapon & Shield

ENDLESS SPELLS
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)



alternatively:

LEADERS
Chaos Lord On Manticore (250)
- General
- Command Trait : Illusionist
- Blade & Lance
- Artefact : Dimensional Blade

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate

Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm
Sayl The Faithless (200)

- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch
- Allies

UNITS
20 x Chaos Marauders (120)
-Axes & Shields
- Damned Icon

1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)

30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
-Hand Weapon & Shield

10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)

10 x Chaos Knights (320)
-Chaos Glaives

ENDLESS SPELLS
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

[Asimov]

@newsun I have never played the Soul Grinder and Mutalith, so I won't give you advised, but I am really interested to have your feedbacks.

@HMB I like your second list with a block of 30 warriors. You are not far from everchosen, add an Archaon and a Varanguard unit and here it is!

[Asimov]

About my game against StD, I ended up taking into acount your advices and played this list:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice 
- Artefact: Mark of the Conjurer 
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Magister (140)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 1500 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 78
 

My opponent was playing: 1 lord on demonic mount, 1 sorcerer on mount, 3 varanguards, 10 chaos knights  with swords, 5 chaos knights with spears, 2*5 mounted marauders, and 2 gorebeast charriots. Everything mounted, really nice army.

We played a scenario from Malign Sorcery "Eye of the storm" with a very special set up (see picture). I was playing the caralyst and had some bonus for the spells.

Sadly we did not have time to finish, but I have some feedbacks still:
- Kairics are weak and dont stand against a charge of knights, but they block them for a turn. I think I prefer 10 blues for 20 additional points, at least you have a better bravery and you get some points for brimstones. 
- Balewind vortex is awesome with the gaunt summoner. He was set on this shooting tower in the center of the table, aiming any threat taht would be prioritized. 
-  the Quicksilver Swords are a pretty good idea for sacrifying pinks during the first turn. But it is safe to do it only once I think. I got a lof of use from it as I was playing against a chaos army. I dispelled it a couple of times to cast it again where I would need it. 

First turn: Played first. I casted spells and got like 13 fate points thanks to the scenario rules.  My opponent just moved  and advanced. 
Second turn: Played first. I got some knights killed, summoned 10 blues and an herald on disc. He charged my blues and my kairics with the 5 knights and varanguards. My strategy was going pretty well all around. 
Third turn: Played first again. The spells did a lot of damage, I got  an exalted flamer out and some brimstones. I charged with the pinks and the enlightened. Those last are really great. They got the general to drop at 2 wounds left and killed a charriot while leaving the last at 2. But the bravery phase got durty and I lost almost all my horrors but 1 pink engaged against the varanguard. During my opponent turn, he disengaged and charged the heroes in the center with the remaining knights (two units of 2 and 3) but without doing much damage.

To conclude, if we had time to play until the end, if I got the first turn again the game would have been done (40 blues were coming and probably some more deamons after the casting phase). If I played second it would have been tighter by losing a couple of heroes, but probably I would have cleaned the table by turn 5.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Asimov

[Lughaidh]

I play Beastclaw Raiders and looking at maybe switching armies or getting a second army.  What is the easiest, quickest, cheapest way to get into Tzeentch?  Is it just buying a pair of Start Collecting boxes?  Skimming through this thread it doesn't seem like a lot of people run Heralds, Flamers, or Screamers, which is most of the SC box.

[Magnus The Blue]

The Changecult box is much better in terms of competitive matched play options. Screamers, flamers and burning chariots all over costed, so you'll only really use the Pinks and Herald on foot if you are looking to win match play games. 

[Asimov]

52 minutes ago, Lughaidh said:

I play Beastclaw Raiders and looking at maybe switching armies or getting a second army.  What is the easiest, quickest, cheapest way to get into Tzeentch?  Is it just buying a pair of Start Collecting boxes?  Skimming through this thread it doesn't seem like a lot of people run Heralds, Flamers, or Screamers, which is most of the SC box.

Yes, the changecult box is where I started, with the heroes from silver tower. 
The SC deamons is perfect to get some stuff to summon. You will want pinks and blues+brimstones in addition. Take 2 boxes of blues for one of pink. 

Tzeentch is awesome, but I would not say it is cheap. Even if we have great starting boxes, the number of stuff we need to get that will not be part of our starting roster but just here for summoning  implies even more buying. 

One advice, try to magnet your Tzaangor on discs. I have 9 that I can switch from enlightened to skyfires. It prevents any bad surprise with future FAQs. 

[Lughaidh]

How many points does the Changecult box come out to?

[Magnus The Blue]

Off the top of my head

Arcanite Cultists: 160

Tzaangor: 360

Enlightened (assumed on disks): 140

Skyfires: 200

Shamman: 180

 

So 1,040 without any battalions or 1k on the nose if you put the Enlightened on foot

[SwampHeart]

Can slotting in the Phantasmagoria from BoC be a valid option? I would think giving you the benefit of fitting several units (thus lowering drop count) as well as unlocking a decent cheap core screen in Ungors might be workable. Phantasmagoria is expensive at 200 points but do the benefits justify its inclusion or are cheap Kairics the better mandatory battle line option? 

[Magnus The Blue]

200 points is costly for the Phantasmagoraria, especially since the battalion ability is so bad in an army that will have more wizards than the opponent 90%+ of the time anyway.  I've not figured out any awesome combos that make it worth the cost to mix Beast with Disciples.  It is nice and flexible and has the usual benefits of having lots of units in a battalion (choice of first turn, artefact and command point), but feels at least 50 points too expensive, especially compared to the fantastic Khorne Battalion ability.

That said, I love it for the conversion potential and can't wait to start Tzeentching some of the Beast of Chaos models.

[Soupster18]

Some ace info on here but I have acquired Archaon and wondered how I can build him in to a Tzeentch list, not exclusively just be good to add him in to regular games/tourneys now and again 

I have the below to choose from 

Hereos

Archaon

LOC

Curseling

Gaunt Summoner

Tzaangor Shaman  

Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Troops

10 x Pink Horrors

30 x Blue Horrors (want to use for summoning) 

10 Brimstones

60 Karic Acolytes

20 Tzaangor 

6 Skyfires 

6 Tzanngor Enlightened (magnetized to switch out Skyfires) 

15 Chaos Warriors 

[Soupster18]

Also, Does Archaon get Access to Our Spells or is he strictly Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield 

 

thanks you 

[Asimov]

51 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Off the top of my head

Arcanite Cultists: 160

Tzaangor: 360

Enlightened (assumed on disks): 140

Skyfires: 200

Shamman: 180

 

So 1,040 without any battalions or 1k on the nose if you put the Enlightened on foot

You can have 2*3 Enlightened or 2*3 Skyfires, or a mix, or everything if you magnetized. 
This is the real deal of the box

[Lughaidh]

@Magnus The Blue @Asimov Thanks so much for the advice. What about daemons? I like Tzaangors, but the daemons are really what attracted me to Tzeentch. Would I add some if I ended up building up towards 2k? Are the horrors and Heros the only ones with anything?

Edited November 16, 2018 by Lughaidh

[Asimov]

Just now, Lughaidh said:

@Magnus The Blue @Asimov Thanks so much for the advice. What about daemons? I like Tzaangors, but the daemons are really attracted me to Tzeentch. Would I add some if I ended up building up towards 2k? Are the horrors and Heros the only ones with anything?

The first rule is always play what you like!
Everything is fun. I love the flamers and their shooting that deal MW. You also have some really nice deamon heroes out of the heralds. Like the changeling allowing some nasty tricks. I remember someone posting a strat where he would cast the endless spell Aethervoid Pendulum in the back of the army at the begining of the battle... 
The Blue Scribs is also very good to make your casting more reliable. And of course there is the Lord of Change...
Some deamons are great, for some others it is harder to get a good value for the points, but it does not mean that they are not fun to play with. 

[Satyrical Sophist]

3 hours ago, Lughaidh said:

I play Beastclaw Raiders and looking at maybe switching armies or getting a second army.  What is the easiest, quickest, cheapest way to get into Tzeentch?  Is it just buying a pair of Start Collecting boxes?  Skimming through this thread it doesn't seem like a lot of people run Heralds, Flamers, or Screamers, which is most of the SC box.

The thing about the SC box that other people have said already is right, most of the stuff does not get included in most Tzeentch armies. HOWEVER, I did find it really useful for summoning. The exalted flamer is probably my most commonly summoned unit, flamers are a touch expensive to summon in, but certainly possible. I haven't gotten round to painting screamers yet (started off daemon heavy, then moved to tzaangors, then beasts of chaos), but they are a fast unit that is cheap to summon. The chariot bits allow you to assemble a set of blue scribes, or just have the option to summon a herald on disk or foot.

The changecult box is just really good.