AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[AaronWilson]

I don't think he's impossible, MS change, his points increase and the Changehost points increase and not being able to make use of Look Out Sir! makes his less desirable I think. That's on top of the whole army going up in points generally, so he's even harder to squeeze in. 

[Olmdebil]

On wich side in the book i can find the Mark that overide the rule of 1 Regards castIng multiple arcane bolts in fatesworn?

[TheOtherJosh]

2 hours ago, Olmdebil said:

On wich side in the book i can find the Mark that overide the rule of 1 Regards castIng multiple arcane bolts in fatesworn?

Core Rules.Abilities. P.13

“3 ABILITIES
Most warscrolls include one or more abilities that can be used by the warscroll’s models during a game of Warhammer Age of Sigmar. Abilities take precedence over the core rules.”

Edited June 27, 2018 by TheOtherJosh

[TheOtherJosh]

4 hours ago, HMB said:

is the LoC impossible to deploy now?

The current “theoretical” lists are attempting to leverage the new “spell casting for summoning” mechanic which is coming in the new edition.

The LoC cost has been upped to 380points, and still can cast only 2 spells. Making it less ‘points efficient’ in that kind of list. (e.g. 2 Gaunt summoners At 360 Points would give you 4 spell casts and 4 dispels.) and there are other casters that give the potential for adding units to your army (Shaman, Magister, Ogroid, Gaunt Summoner)

[AaronWilson]

13 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

The current “theoretical” lists are attempting to leverage the new “spell casting for summoning” mechanic which is coming in the new edition.

The LoC cost has been upped to 380points, and still can cast only 2 spells. Making it less ‘points efficient’ in that kind of list. (e.g. 2 Gaunt summoners At 360 Points would give you 4 spell casts and 4 dispels.) and there are other casters that give the potential for adding units to your army (Shaman, Magister, Ogroid, Gaunt Summoner)

Am I being dense or is the Gaunt Summoners only free thing is there is a realmgate on the table? I don't want to be missing tricks!

[boelimaa]

8 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

Am I being dense or is the Gaunt Summoners only free thing is there is a realmgate on the table? I don't want to be missing tricks!

Thats correct as far as I understand. It's not a given model in my lists at all...

 

I'am trying to find a list with the blue scribes in. Where we want so many casters there should be space for this genious model...

Edited June 27, 2018 by boelimaa

[AaronWilson]

6 minutes ago, boelimaa said:

Thats correct as far as I understand. It's not a given model in my lists at all...

 

I'am trying to find a list with the blue scribes in. Where we want so many casters there should be space for this genious model...

Yeah I think something like

Gaunt - 180
Ogroid - 180
Tzaangor Shaman - 180
Magister - 140
Blue Scribes - 140

Acolytes - 80
Acolytes - 80
Tzaangors - 480

Skyfires - 440

Spell portal - 60
Balewind - 40

Could work. It's very thing on the ground but I'm finding that's just the way it is with Tzeentch, especially with the new higher costed heroes, the above lsit has 6 re-rolling spells a turn and all our avenues to create free units bar Kairos. 

[boelimaa]

1 hour ago, AaronWIlson said:

Yeah I think something like

Gaunt - 180
Ogroid - 180
Tzaangor Shaman - 180
Magister - 140
Blue Scribes - 140

Acolytes - 80
Acolytes - 80
Tzaangors - 480

Skyfires - 440

Spell portal - 60
Balewind - 40

Could work. It's very thing on the ground but I'm finding that's just the way it is with Tzeentch, especially with the new higher costed heroes, the above lsit has 6 re-rolling spells a turn and all our avenues to create free units bar Kairos. 

What about:

Curseling 180
Ogroid 180
Tzaangor Shaman 180
Blue Scribes 140
Magister 140

10x Pinks 200
10x Pinks 200
10x Tzaangors 180
6x Skyfires 440

Spell Portal 60
Balewind 40

1x Command Point (for battleshock if not going first!)
1x Triumph! (They've become better!)

 

 

[TheOtherJosh]

3 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

Am I being dense or is the Gaunt Summoners only free thing is there is a realmgate on the table? I don't want to be missing tricks!

So .... often times folks have either battleplans that use Realmgates (e.g. “Endless Battle” and “Bloody Eacalation” in the Battletome: Dominion Of Chaos book both use them) or have it as a piece of scenery that folks bring as part of terrain setup.

But yes, you’re right. It would be a terrain piece, placed in “The Battlefield” section. After the battleplans is chosen but before “Set Up”... (which includes choosing sides.)

So, have one available to add to the available terrain pieces for your game.

[Trenchcoat_Dave]

I may be overthinking things but how will the horror splitting work in the new edition? 

[BillyOcean]

SIGH, Ogroid nerfed just after I finished painting him up for 2nd Edition.

Edited June 27, 2018 by BillyOcean
rule added

[TheOtherJosh]

Ogroid Thaumaturge spell changed to summon Brimstones only.

4 minutes ago, Trenchcoat_Dave said:

I may be overthinking things but how will the horror splitting work in the new edition? 

Check the FAQ’s that we’re just released:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

They cover all of it ... it’s crazy!

@BillyOcean He’s still an awesome model and would work well with Tzaangor. And has solid combat skills for a caster.

Edited June 27, 2018 by TheOtherJosh

[Trenchcoat_Dave]

1 minute ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Ogroid Thaumaturge spell changed to summon Brimstones only.

Check the FAQ’s that we’re just released:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

They cover all of it ... it’s crazy!

I COMPLETELY missed this

[BillyOcean]

6 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

@BillyOcean He’s still an awesome model and would work well with Tzaangor. And has solid combat skills for a caster.

For sure. Using the word "nerfed" was a little tongue in cheek, seeing as he's still obviously better than he was before summoning became "free". Its just that since the new rules leaked, I think we've all been assuming he's elevated to God-mode - blasting pink horrors into peoples faces who can then blast with a spell of their own! It was obviously too good, so the change makes a lot of sense.

[BillyOcean]

Huh, also the errata to Screamers changes them significantly relative to how I was using them. Based on the old rule, I was assuming that 6s to hit the Screamers counted as 1s, as long as the Screamers were close to a hero. The Errata makes it clear that its actually 6s to hit the heroes that count as 1s, as long as the hero is close to screamers. Looking back at the old wording, I guess it was ambiguous which way it worked. How were others playing it previously, and do you think it changes their value at all? I guess it helps to prevent hero sniping even more, on top of Look Out Sir. 

[TheOtherJosh]

15 minutes ago, BillyOcean said:

Huh, also the errata to Screamers changes them significantly relative to how I was using them. Based on the old rule, I was assuming that 6s to hit the Screamers counted as 1s, as long as the Screamers were close to a hero. The Errata makes it clear that its actually 6s to hit the heroes that count as 1s, as long as the hero is close to screamers. Looking back at the old wording, I guess it was ambiguous which way it worked. How were others playing it previously, and do you think it changes their value at all? I guess it helps to prevent hero sniping even more, on top of Look Out Sir. 

Well ... it changes a 6 to shoot heroes to a -1 if he’s within 3” of them ... so not only did they miss ... but they probably shot themselves ... so ... Screamers are now a  Shamans Best friend.

And yeah, the way it read was that it affected the Screamers because of how the descriptive worked. But if you pulled the descriptive sentence out  it was entirely the heroes.

(Much like completely altering who goes first based in the German edition of the core rules to whoever finishes army placement first.)

Edited June 27, 2018 by TheOtherJosh

[Lou_Cypher]

Curseling stealing and recasting Endless Spells at 42" away is possible now it seems.

[BillyOcean]

Also note that many of the new Errata explicitly point out that command abilities cannot be used multiple times (e.g. Morathi). I assume this is instead of any blanket rule of 1. The is not such rule for the Lord of Change, so I assume its fine to burn a few command points to add +3 (or whatever you want) to all cast/unbind for a round. Its a pretty steep price to pay, but would allow us to compete with Nagash in the Magic phase.

EDIT: Or maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Perhaps the language "If he uses this ability, you can add 1" means that only 1 is added, however many times he used it. So a binary if / if not statement. Not sure.

Edited June 27, 2018 by BillyOcean

[Waiyuren]

Also in the errata, and super relevant to the Fatesworn;

It can't be used in Disciples of Tzeentch or Slaves to Darkness anymore. ?

They've clarified that it is Everchosen, and therefore it, and every unit in it, counts as allies for the purpose of list building... so, yeah. 10,000pt games anyone? ?

[SpiritofHokuto]

1 hour ago, Waiyuren said:

Also in the errata, and super relevant to the Fatesworn;

It can't be used in Disciples of Tzeentch or Slaves to Darkness anymore. ?

They've clarified that it is Everchosen, and therefore it, and every unit in it, counts as allies for the purpose of list building... so, yeah. 10,000pt games anyone? ?

Yeah GW seem to be falling back into the bad habit of flip-flopping and invalidating armies wholesale. Guess my Tzeentch WoC army gets shelved until StD/Everchosen gets rules worth a damn.

[Malakithe]

So lets review...points increases, unusable Changehost and now unusable Fatesworn. All Horrors are mostly useless and summoning is highly situational 

[obmik1]

3 hours ago, Waiyuren said:

Also in the errata, and super relevant to the Fatesworn;

It can't be used in Disciples of Tzeentch or Slaves to Darkness anymore. ?

They've clarified that it is Everchosen, and therefore it, and every unit in it, counts as allies for the purpose of list building... so, yeah. 10,000pt games anyone? ?

I can't seem to find this, which errata is it in?

 

Also, what leads people to think changehost is dead?

Edited June 28, 2018 by obmik1
Additional question.

[Xasz]

7 minutes ago, obmik1 said:

I can't seem to find this, which errata is it in?

 

Also, what leads people to think changehost is dead?

Designer note page 6.

Quote

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)?

A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion. In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll battalions that share the same allegiance as an army can always be taken as part of the army, and if they include any allied units, these units do not count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (or against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle).

Non-army allegiance battalions do now count towards allies and every unit in them, regardless of their own allegiance, does so as well.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Xasz

[Olincay]

So I'm alittle confused, i've heard people saying you need to have 10 fate points in the bank to be able to use your splitting points from pinks/blues ect.
Is this correct? 

 

[AaronWilson]

Yeah main take away points from errata are - 

Ogroid now only brings free Brimstones, instead of Blues or Pinks.

We now need 10 fate points at the end of any movement phase, instead of 5 making it harder to use those Blue/Brimstone horror points 

Mastery of Magic now being +12" to unbind range is actually very good, I can't see my self not using this on a Curseling.

Due to the way warscroll batallions work FSWB will no longer be able to be taken in a Tzeentch army. 

With all that said, the list I'm most excited for trying out now is 

Gaunt Summoner - 180
Tzaangor Shaman - 180
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch - 160
Magister - 140
Blue Scribes - 140

Kairic Acolytes - 80
Kairic Acolyte - 80
Tzaangors - 480

Tzaangor Skyfires - 440

Umbrall Spell Portal - 60
Balewind Bortex - 40
Souldbind  Shackles - 20