AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Xasz]

On 10/5/2018 at 5:03 PM, HMB said:

is it possible to create funny/good lists with Slave to Darkness without the Fatesworn now?

Probably not, Tzeentch is lacking mortal units (like medium or heavy infantry) of their own to carry a mortal setup and the StD lists were too reliant on Fatesworn. You could play StD with Fatesworn as Chaos allegiance, which would probably be not half bad, but it kinda defeats the purpose of your question.

I really hope they don't skip over mortals like they did with Tzeentch, in a potential Slaanesh battletome next year.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Xasz

[Yeled]

On 9/21/2018 at 3:21 PM, AverageBoss said:

That was actually changed in a recent FAQ. He is effectively a 9 wound wizard now.

Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars,
Chaos Familiars
Change the first paragraph to:
‘If any wounds or mortal wounds are allocated to this model and not negated, you can choose to remove one Chaos Familiar. If you do so, the wound or mortal wound is negated.’

I just saw this. That's huge. Can you or someone else point me to which FAQ this is in? The Gaunt Summoner with Chaos Familiars isn't in Disciples of Tzeentch, right?

Also, does the Changeling get revealed simply by being near an enemy hero at the end of a phase now? Doesn't that make him mostly useless? Sorry, I'm just now catching up on the Tzeentch updates.

Thanks!

[Magnus The Blue]

It's in the Silver tower errata. Yup, big deal and makes it an outstanding hero. 

Yes, got to keep it away from heroes. Not useless but definitely harder to use now.

[RaritanAnon]

So I've just started Tzeentch and I'm having a boatload of fun. After tinkering with lists a bit, I came up with these 'must have' units but I'm at a bit of a roadblock as to what to include from here.  My issue is that I don't want to fall into Tzaangor Enlightened spam, which seems to be the current meta. What else should I take? 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice 
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond
Lord Of Change (380)
- Artefact: Mark of the Conjurer 
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 10x Pair of Savage Blade
- 8x Savage Greatblade
- 2x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
Balewind Vortex (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1600 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 8
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 85
 

[Cronman]

I've been playing around with a hero heavy, Melee & Magic list with some trickery thrown in from the ghur realm artifacts.

Fatemaster- 120.                                    General, Artifact: shardfist pelt Command trait: Aether Teather

Lord of Change- 380.                            Spell: Tzeentch's Fire Storm

Tzanngor Shaman- 180.                      Spell: Arcane Transformation 

Magister- 140.                                          Spell: Shield of Fate

Ogroid Thaumaturge- 180.              Spell: Infusion Arcanum 

Curseling- 160.                                        Spell: Glimpse of the Future 

      Battleline

20 Tzanngor- 360                               16- paired savage blades.                  4- great weapons

10 Kairic Acolytes- 80

10 Kairic Acolytes- 80

     Warscroll Battalion

Arcane cabal- 180

      Endless Spell

Crogmatic Cogs- 40

Balewind Vortex- 60

Quicksilver Swords- 20

Soulsnare Shackles- 20

2000pt/2000pt

So with this list I have the casting power to throw around 7-9 spells per turn depending on my positioning. The Fatemaster as a general with Ather Teather and Shardfist Pelt is something that I've been wanting to try for a while. The Shardfist Pelt reflects 6+ saves back as mortal wounds and with the Fatemaster's ability to add 2 to his save it does mortal wounds reflected on saves of 4+ instead, basically if I use him to get into combat with a non-flying hoard unit that puts out a lot of wounds to save (eg. Skellies, Witch elves, etc) I get to roll all those saves at 2+ re rolling 1s and mortal wounding on 4+. I think it turns him into a defensive fortress that causes enemies to punch themselves in the face.

I would have my Acolyte's screening my casters while my Tzanngor and Ogroid go out for Objectives and summon where need be.

What do you guys think? Feedback would be greatly appreciated!

[Iradekhorne]

Why noone use Tzaangors enlightened on discs? 

6 of them in a unit are absolutly worth now.

They won +1 attack, 3 of them cost 140now, and they have the daemon keyword, you can ress 1d6 of then with a single spell.... I see him way better than normal tzaangors, and more resilent bcause the ress. And they moove 16"!

But i didn't see to much lists with them xD.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Iradekhorne

[Calum Todd]

I run a list with 6 of them and 6 Skyfires (this was pre-Beasts of Chaos)

Likely to change that to 2x6 Enlightened + 10 Pink Horrors. Though I do expect that Enlightened will get a bit of a points increase in GHB19 (yes I know it just changed!)

[Jeamsu]

Hey All,

I Invested in Tzeentch last January, and have finally got around to building and painting my units after finishing my Sylvaneth army. Our local group only really plays 1000 points which is fine, but with the point increases I feel hamstrung while building a functional army at such a low point cap. I was hoping to go a heavy caster hero list with chaff and some tzaangor units, but I feel like I'm not getting enough wounds on the table. I still haven't built everything yet and was hoping to get some direction on what to work on first.

Here is my list of units to work with:

1 LOC/Kairos
2 Tzaangor Shaman
1 Herald
1 Hearald on Chariot
1 Daemon Prince
1 Cursling
1 Gaunt Summoner

30 Pinks
10 Blues
10 Brimstone
6 Screamers
6 Flamers
2 Exalted Flamers(1 magnetized for chariot ) 

6 Skyfires (3 magnetized for enlightened)
20 Tzaangor
20 Kairic Cultists

1 Balewind

Most balanced list I can come up with is:

1 Shaman
1 Herald on Foot

10 Pinks
10 Tzaangor

3 Enlightened on foot
3 Skyfires

Thoughts?

[JonnyTheKing]

Hey everyone, revisiting my Tzeentch after a long break from them and I have to say I'm kinda lost! What units are people finding the most successful so far in second edition?

[RaritanAnon]

5 hours ago, Jeamsu said:

Hey All,

I Invested in Tzeentch last January, and have finally got around to building and painting my units after finishing my Sylvaneth army. Our local group only really plays 1000 points which is fine, but with the point increases I feel hamstrung while building a functional army at such a low point cap. I was hoping to go a heavy caster hero list with chaff and some tzaangor units, but I feel like I'm not getting enough wounds on the table. I still haven't built everything yet and was hoping to get some direction on what to work on first.

Here is my list of units to work with:

1 LOC/Kairos
2 Tzaangor Shaman
1 Herald
1 Hearald on Chariot
1 Daemon Prince
1 Cursling
1 Gaunt Summoner

30 Pinks
10 Blues
10 Brimstone
6 Screamers
6 Flamers
2 Exalted Flamers(1 magnetized for chariot ) 

6 Skyfires (3 magnetized for enlightened)
20 Tzaangor
20 Kairic Cultists

1 Balewind

Most balanced list I can come up with is:

1 Shaman
1 Herald on Foot

10 Pinks
10 Tzaangor

3 Enlightened on foot
3 Skyfires

Thoughts?

This is the 1k I'm hoping to test this weekend. Close to yours, but a Summoner is nearly essential to tzeentch. We don't have a lot of other ways to deal with hordes. 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
- Trait: Incorporeal Form 
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Tzaangors (180)
- 4x Pair of Savage Blade
- 4x Savage Greatblade
- 2x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 51
 

[Fenomeen]

Hi all,

New player here and I am feeling this faction!

I'll be playing 1250 locals primarily and was thinking about the following list

1240 points
1 lord of change
1 gaunt summoner
3 pink horrors
1 umbral portal
1 soulsnare shackles

Seems like a cool controle list i'm a bit undecided on the spells/traits/items yet but I have this as a skeleton for 1250 . What do you guys think?

[Magnus The Blue]

19 minutes ago, Fenomeen said:

Hi all,

New player here and I am feeling this faction!

I'll be playing 1250 locals primarily and was thinking about the following list

1240 points
1 lord of change
1 gaunt summoner
3 pink horrors
1 umbral portal
1 soulsnare shackles

Seems like a cool controle list i'm a bit undecided on the spells/traits/items yet but I have this as a skeleton for 1250 . What do you guys think?

Feels very fragile to me, if you lose the two characters you can no longer summon all those blue horrors the Pinks will be producing.  Would prefer switching one of the units of Pinks for 10 Tzaangor to provide some combat punch and protection for the Gaunt Summoner.  Also, if you have the models, Gaunt Summoner is about a million times better with the familiars.

As for traits/items, if you feeling mean stacking minus to hit on the LoC is nasty at this size game: incorporeal form and Gryph Feather charge would make it a nightmare to take out.

[Fenomeen]

So you recommend me getting the chaos familiars box to strengthen my Gaunt Summoner correct?

I didn't think about the summoning condition being dependable on my hero's. If so your trait/item makes sense to make him more durable thanks!

Also how do you feel about endless spells in a 1250 format. There seem to be so many good options but i dont know which endless spells i should prioritize.  Portal seems good in every matchup and shackles was fillered in

Edited October 9, 2018 by Fenomeen
forgot to add

[JonnyTheKing]

Hi everyone, I just ordered the Tzeentch Christmas set, what load out do you guys think is best for a big unit of Tzaangors and are enlightened better on their disc or off them?

[Myzyrael]

On 10/8/2018 at 4:56 PM, Cronman said:

I've been playing around with a hero heavy, Melee & Magic list with some trickery thrown in from the ghur realm artifacts.

Fatemaster- 120.                                    General, Artifact: shardfist pelt Command trait: Aether Teather

Lord of Change- 380.                            Spell: Tzeentch's Fire Storm

Tzanngor Shaman- 180.                      Spell: Arcane Transformation 

Magister- 140.                                          Spell: Shield of Fate

Ogroid Thaumaturge- 180.              Spell: Infusion Arcanum 

Curseling- 160.                                        Spell: Glimpse of the Future 

      Battleline

20 Tzanngor- 360                               16- paired savage blades.                  4- great weapons

10 Kairic Acolytes- 80

10 Kairic Acolytes- 80

     Warscroll Battalion

Arcane cabal- 180

      Endless Spell

Crogmatic Cogs- 40

Balewind Vortex- 60

Quicksilver Swords- 20

Soulsnare Shackles- 20

2000pt/2000pt

So with this list I have the casting power to throw around 7-9 spells per turn depending on my positioning. The Fatemaster as a general with Ather Teather and Shardfist Pelt is something that I've been wanting to try for a while. The Shardfist Pelt reflects 6+ saves back as mortal wounds and with the Fatemaster's ability to add 2 to his save it does mortal wounds reflected on saves of 4+ instead, basically if I use him to get into combat with a non-flying hoard unit that puts out a lot of wounds to save (eg. Skellies, Witch elves, etc) I get to roll all those saves at 2+ re rolling 1s and mortal wounding on 4+. I think it turns him into a defensive fortress that causes enemies to punch themselves in the face.

I would have my Acolyte's screening my casters while my Tzanngor and Ogroid go out for Objectives and summon where need be.

What do you guys think? Feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Just a side note - please correct me if I’m wrong - casting spells doesn’t require you to be in range at all. The rules say you pick a spell and roll 2d6. No range check is involved, the only thing is max 1 attempt per spell “name” per round. 

A bit of being “that guy” but hey tzeentch weaves our fate ?

[Magnus The Blue]

Arcane cabal seems like a waste of points with only 2 casters in it.  You could use those points and the two 20 point endless spells to upgrade your acolytes to pink horrors.  Means you've got the same number of spells, don't have to keep those 3 heroes together and tonnes of blue horrors later in the game. 

 

Also Q swords is just a bad idea if you've got demon's in the list.

[Drib]

28 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Arcane cabal seems like a waste of points with only 2 casters in it.  You could use those points and the two 20 point endless spells to upgrade your acolytes to pink horrors.  Means you've got the same number of spells, don't have to keep those 3 heroes together and tonnes of blue horrors later in the game. 

 

Also Q swords is just a bad idea if you've got demon's in the list.

Well, you don't need to keep them together, as it only works for 3 Wizards, so its even more a waste of points.

Quote

Page 105 – Arcanite Cabal, Cabal of Sorcerers
Change the last sentence to:
‘Each Wizard from an Arcanite Cabal that is within 
9" of at least two other Wizards from the same 
battalion in your hero phase can attempt to cast one 
additional spell.’

 

[JonnyTheKing]

Are Tzaangor mutants worth it for Tzaangor units or is it better to just invest in shields for everybody without great weapons as you are only losing out on 1 attack for more durability for those who do the damage in the unit

[RaritanAnon]

Just now, JonnyTheKing said:

Are Tzaangor mutants worth it for Tzaangor units or is it better to just invest in shields for everybody without great weapons as you are only losing out on 1 attack for more durability for those who do the damage in the unit

As per the rules change, you only need one shield in the unit for the 6++, so 1-2 per 10 Tzaangors is perfectly fine. 

[JonnyTheKing]

8 minutes ago, RaritanAnon said:

As per the rules change, you only need one shield in the unit for the 6++, so 1-2 per 10 Tzaangors is perfectly fine. 

which rules change if you don't mind me asking?

[RaritanAnon]

6 minutes ago, JonnyTheKing said:

which rules change if you don't mind me asking?

 

[JonnyTheKing]

Just now, RaritanAnon said:

 

Oh damn, was that in the Beasts of Chaos book?

[RaritanAnon]

1 minute ago, JonnyTheKing said:

Oh damn, was that in the Beasts of Chaos book?

Yeah that's when they added another attack to Enlightened, too. Double check your warscrolls. 

[AverageBoss]

1 hour ago, JonnyTheKing said:

Oh damn, was that in the Beasts of Chaos book?

Yep, all 4 Tzaangor units changed in the BoC book.

[JJUN]

I'm playing with this lists.  

Magical powers are not that strong, but combat is better.

You can give a -2 hit to enemy units that target Chaos sorcerer on Manticore in combat phase.

Fatemaster could get +2 save against for non fly units.

Revive tzaangor enlightened on disc for shaman's lore.

The key is endless spells.

Shaman can cast Doomblast Dirgehorn and also Geminids of Uhl-Gysh. 

With Dirgehorn and Geminds, enemy units get -2 hits, tzaangors could survive longer.

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Chaos Sorcerer Lord On Manticore (200)
- General
- Trait: Incorporeal Form 
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Fatemaster (120)

Battleline
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
10 x Tzaangors (180)

10 x Tzaangors (180)

Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened (200)

Endless Spells
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Doomblast Dirgehorn (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 146