AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[RaritanAnon]

Just now, TheOtherJosh said:

@RaritanAnon It might be worthwhile to consider “Treacherous Bond” on the Summoner.

It has the potential to make them much more resilient especially when using the horrors as the wound pool.

Ah yeah I forget about that one. Nice call. 

[Maximum]

I have noticed, that on the warscroll builder, the tzaangors are no more battelline for tzeentch, is it an error or is it official?
?

[Magnus The Blue]

I've been thinking about the Herald on Burning Chariot recently and wonder if it is worth comboing with some endless spells.  Specifically- Balewind Vortex for 15" range on Tzeetch's Firestorm, or even better (but more expensive) Spell Mirror to drop the spell in the middle of the opponent's army without putting the herald in harms way.  Both costly combos and need some casting boost to get the 9+ regularly, but feels like it could be worth it against any army with MSU (multiple small units).  Anyone tried it or got any ideas for how to best use the Herald on Burning Chariot?

[TheOtherJosh]

3 hours ago, Maximum said:

I have noticed, that on the warscroll builder, the tzaangors are no more battelline for tzeentch, is it an error or is it official?
?

It looks like a bug in Warscroll builder.

@scrollbuilderdude Probably knows.

They’re listed as “Battleline” as their role in the Beasts Of Chaos book, and listed as “Battleline If General is a Tzaangor Shaman in a Beasts Of Chaos Army”

So, in a GA Chaos Army (Or Tzeentch) Army they would be Battleline... but in a ‘Beasts Of Chaos’ force they would only be Battleline if the General is a Shaman. (I bet that the implementation of that in the Web tool is a pain.)

[Magnus The Blue]

Had a game last night and much to my surprise the real standout unit was 6 screamers.  They didn't do a lots of wounds but the combination of being super fast, reasonably tanky (18 wounds and -1 to hit), flying and having relatively small bases (can fit in small spaces) means they are great for capturing and protecting objectives.  Nice to see a unit I usually take resentfully to fill up a Changehost actually pulling it's weight.  Probably still not going to field the 30 I own  

[Qaz]

27 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Had a game last night and much to my surprise the real standout unit was 6 screamers.  They didn't do a lots of wounds but the combination of being super fast, reasonably tanky (18 wounds and -1 to hit), flying and having relatively small bases (can fit in small spaces) means they are great for capturing and protecting objectives.  Nice to see a unit I usually take resentfully to fill up a Changehost actually pulling it's weight.  Probably still not going to field the 30 I own  

Their official aos base is huge. 50mm if I remember correctly. 

[ledha]

is there anything that prevent a tzeentch player to run the old tzaangors/enlightened/skyfires/tzaangor chaman warscroll and not the one from BOC ?

[Magnus The Blue]

20 minutes ago, Qaz said:

Their official aos base is huge. 50mm if I remember correctly. 

Just looked it up, 60mm!!! Despite they are always packaged with 32mm.  Seams fishy, I've sent GW an email to confirm. 

9 minutes ago, ledha said:

is there anything that prevent a tzeentch player to run the old tzaangors/enlightened/skyfires/tzaangor chaman warscroll and not the one from BOC ?

Yes, the Designers commentary explicitly says you should always use the most recent warscroll (they are all free to download).

[AverageBoss]

2 hours ago, ledha said:

is there anything that prevent a tzeentch player to run the old tzaangors/enlightened/skyfires/tzaangor chaman warscroll and not the one from BOC ?

 

2 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Just looked it up, 60mm!!! Despite they are always packaged with 32mm.  Seams fishy, I've sent GW an email to confirm. 

Yes, the Designers commentary explicitly says you should always use the most recent warscroll (they are all free to download).

Unless they do an FAQ update this weekend telling you to use the new scrolls like they did for LoN when NH came out. Also most places I have played at expect you to use the newest version anyways.

Edited September 28, 2018 by AverageBoss

[cicciogamer]

what do y think about a list with Archaon?

[RaritanAnon]

So I recently bought into Tzeentch and I mainly love the Daemons. However, the more I tinker with lists, the more I consider adding Tzaangors and Enlightened. Daemons don't have a melee punch, really, and that's where Tzaangors strive. 

Allegiance: Chaos

Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)

- General

- Trait: Nexus of Fate 

- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future

Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)

- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 

- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum

10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)

- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch

10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)

- Lore of Change: Fold Reality

10 x Tzaangors (180)

- 4x Pair of Savage Blade

- 4x Savage Greatblade

- 2x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield

Balewind Vortex (40)

Soulsnare Shackles (20)

 

Total: 1000 / 1000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 200

Wounds: 53

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by RaritanAnon

[kenshin620]

Tzeentch Shadespire Warband is up on the community website.

Seriously this is probably going to be the wackiest AoS statted warband yet. I feel sorry for the person who has to make the attempt!

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by kenshin620

[Xasz]

On 9/29/2018 at 10:37 AM, cicciogamer said:

what do y think about a list with Archaon?

There seems to be at least one Archaon-Tzeentch list in every big tournament and they usually perform rather well. (like top 20%)

The list more or less builds itself, Archaon, Shaman, 6 to 9 Skyfires and fill the remaining 500-700 points with whatever you feel like.

I have no idea how this actually plays on the table but I'd wager that the recent changes to Skyfires might have shifted the power level down a bit. (which are about 1/3 of the list...)

[Cauthon]

Is there an errata on the points cost adjustment for our tzaangor stuff online somewhere? Or is it only in the BoC unit list?

[Xasz]

42 minutes ago, Cauthon said:

Is there an errata on the points cost adjustment for our tzaangor stuff online somewhere? Or is it only in the BoC unit list?

Warscroll Builder is up to date and the new scrolls are online in the app and store.

[Cauthon]

saw the new warscrolls just needed the points, guess I’ll invest in azyr. 

 

So is it just a matter of time before DoT can ally with beasts, faq style? Or maybe not until the next handbook? 

[Xasz]

33 minutes ago, Cauthon said:

saw the new warscrolls just needed the points, guess I’ll invest in azyr. 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/ 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

Hey, Beasts of Chaos player here. I got some Enlightened and a Shaman since they seem pretty useful. Guided by the Past seems like a really strong ability, but waiting to go until after an enemy unit seems like it will result in them getting badly beat up.  How do you guys get the most out of it? Do you charge them in along with a screen of chaff to try and limit pile-in on the Enlightened?

[AverageBoss]

29 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Hey, Beasts of Chaos player here. I got some Enlightened and a Shaman since they seem pretty useful. Guided by the Past seems like a really strong ability, but waiting to go until after an enemy unit seems like it will result in them getting badly beat up.  How do you guys get the most out of it? Do you charge them in along with a screen of chaff to try and limit pile-in on the Enlightened?

I mostly ignore it on offense (too troublesome to set up imo), and see it as something to use on the defensive. I still find it odd that Skyfires got the better version.

[Magnus The Blue]

If Enlighten had the Skyfire ability, they would be crazy good alright. 

Best way to use the Enlighted in my experience is a big group (9) so they can soak wounds, fold reality for crazy healing and Karios to save them from those pesky 1s. 

Obviously, not a valid tactic for Beasts, but those rerolls are so powerful it is often worth them taking some beatings.

[Cauthon]

Well enlightened have a 2 inch reach so you don’t have to “limit pile in” you can just stand right behind a screen and fight over the top. I’m excited to try it with tzaangors in a tzaangor coven.

[AverageBoss]

15 minutes ago, Cauthon said:

Well enlightened have a 2 inch reach so you don’t have to “limit pile in” you can just stand right behind a screen and fight over the top. I’m excited to try it with tzaangors in a tzaangor coven.

The disks only have 1 inch though, so you would be giving up a significant chunk of damage keeping them at 2".

[Cauthon]

That’s true but your gaining a pretty significant defensive advantage in doing so. 

 

There’s not a ton of things out there that will be able to strike back over your screen.  Not having to worry about losing models before striking means you can comfortably wait for guided by the past to kick in. 

 

It is a little less palatable when your on the disc, giving up that attack profile, you  do gain two advantages though  so it’s going to be the right move sometimes , at least.

 

 

 

 

[RaritanAnon]

What do you think is Tzeentch's best stand out battleline?

Tzaangors are a great melee unit, and hardy with their 6++ and 2 wounds a piece. Also access to rend which is hard to find for Tzeentch. I think the typical size is 10-20 nowadays? 32mms are hard to get into reach. 

Kairics are cheap all rounders with OK range and OK melee. Only issue is that they're largely considered 'battleline tax' and people rarely take more than 10 at a time, so they're probably not going to last long. (Is there any merit to taking large amounts of Kairics?) 

Pink Horrors are interesting in that they're actually 50 wounds in a 10 wound can. They're wizards, which helps out a lot, and they have nice shooting and self-regeneration. Absolutely ass in melee though. Can become monetarily expensive what with needing 20 blues and brimstones per 10 pinks. 

I haven't seen many people use the Tzeentch marked STD units, but from what I know, squads of 5 sword n board warriors are hardy speed bumps for the enemy to crash into. 

What's the best combination of these, you think? 1-2 pinks and a unit of 20 Tzaangors is probably a good pick, imo, with a shaman to back them up. Good ranged and good melee. 

[Magnus The Blue]

2 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

What do you think is Tzeentch's best stand out battleline?

Tzaangors are a great melee unit, and hardy with their 6++ and 2 wounds a piece. Also access to rend which is hard to find for Tzeentch. I think the typical size is 10-20 nowadays? 32mms are hard to get into reach. 

Kairics are cheap all rounders with OK range and OK melee. Only issue is that they're largely considered 'battleline tax' and people rarely take more than 10 at a time, so they're probably not going to last long. (Is there any merit to taking large amounts of Kairics?) 

Pink Horrors are interesting in that they're actually 50 wounds in a 10 wound can. They're wizards, which helps out a lot, and they have nice shooting and self-regeneration. Absolutely ass in melee though. Can become monetarily expensive what with needing 20 blues and brimstones per 10 pinks. 

I haven't seen many people use the Tzeentch marked STD units, but from what I know, squads of 5 sword n board warriors are hardy speed bumps for the enemy to crash into. 

What's the best combination of these, you think? 1-2 pinks and a unit of 20 Tzaangors is probably a good pick, imo, with a shaman to back them up. Good ranged and good melee. 

Horrors are such an odd unit and take some getting used to, but can be really powerful. Also a great use of and 1s for destiny dice, I once got a unit from 10 to 20 just by using arcane sacrifice and 1s for battle shock every turn (and some nice rolling). The problem with them is their 1 of their 2 main abilities requires them to die (spells and splitting, their shooting is meh for a 20 point model), so if you play them too aggressively they get killed off and no more magic for you but if you hold them back too much no splitting and you have just got an overpriced caster unit. The trick is to get them engaged with units that will cause some but not allow of casualties to them so you can make the most of splitting and cast spells. They work best if there are demon characters around for locus and LoD for further casting bonus (again LoC better with more demon characters). Very little reason to ever take more than minimum size units.

Tzaangors are a bit more point and click, but don't forget how devastating their banner can be if your wizard heavy. I'd got for units of 10 if you are going to reliably get 5+ dice for the banner or 20 if your not.