AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[TheOtherJosh]

59 minutes ago, Murder Pancake said:

Is Arcane Sacrifice a valid option on the Gaunt Summoner? I've tried applying it in Azyr but the option is not available.  I do not have the battletome on the app as I have the physical copy, but can obtain it if needed.

That depends on the Gaunt Summoner you are attempting to add the Command Trait to. (It would have to be your general.)

The trait is a TZEENTCH ARCANITE Command Trait.

For example, the Gaunt Summoner on Disc (from Everchosen) doesn’t have the ARCANITE keyword.

Edited August 22, 2018 by TheOtherJosh

[kenshin620]

6 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

That depends on the Gaunt Summoner you are attempting to add the Command Trait to. (It would have to be your general.)

The trait is a TZEENTCH ARCANITE Command Trait.

For example, the Gaunt Summoner on Disc (from Everchosen) doesn’t have the ARCANITE keyword.

I will forever always hold it against GW for somehow having 3 different Gaunt Summoners with different keywords and found in different books (or in the case of one of them, the Warhammer Quest pdfs)! ?

[Murder Pancake]

31 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

That depends on the Gaunt Summoner you are attempting to add the Command Trait to. (It would have to be your general.)

The trait is a TZEENTCH ARCANITE Command Trait.

For example, the Gaunt Summoner on Disc (from Everchosen) doesn’t have the ARCANITE keyword.

Yeah, I have it set to Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars as my General. Switched it back to regular GS and the trait is available. Shame, would have preferred the latter. 

Thank you!

[kenshin620]

27 minutes ago, Murder Pancake said:

Yeah, I have it set to Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars as my General. Switched it back to regular GS and the trait is available. Shame, would have preferred the latter. 

Thank you!

Summoner with Chaos Familiars is Arcanites. Which by RAW isn't Arcanite

Which is really silly. Dang you random s at the end!

Edited August 22, 2018 by kenshin620

[Murder Pancake]

Yeah, it seems really arbitrary,  but I also suppose it answers what would have been my next question with regard to the balewind vortex. The rules changes  for 2.0 have me looking at using my Tzeentch stuff for AoS instead of just 40k and I picked up the GS on a whim. Means I don't need familiars anymore, so it all works.

[TheOtherJosh]

4 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Summoner with Chaos Familiars is Arcanites. Which by RAW isn't Arcanite

Which is really silly. Dang you random s at the end!

Technically that was from back in the day prior to the Battletome ... and all of the ARCANITES had the additional S.

They have a similar issue for BRAYHERD vs BRAYHERDS.

They list “Brayherds” in the Allies list ... but there is no “Brayherds” Allegiance. It’s Brayherd.

And there are “BRAYHERD” units ...

It isn’t in a current faq, but I recall that the addition of an “S” didn’t actually change it ... in the original Tzeentch battletome “ARCANITE” and “ARCANITES” as keyword bold was used in several places.

The top of the Command Traits List is “Tzeentch Arcanites” ... for example.

The one of the Familiars gives you a base +1 to cast ... without needing to kill anyone btw.

Edited August 22, 2018 by TheOtherJosh

[kenshin620]

Just now, TheOtherJosh said:

Technically that was from back in the day prior to the Battletome ... and all of the ARCANITES had the additional S.

They have a similar issue for BRAYHERD vs BRAYHERDS.

They list “Brayherds” in the Allies list ... but there is no “Brayherds” Allegiance. It’s Brayherd.

And there are “BRAYHERD” units ...

It isn’t in a current faq, but I recall that the addition of an “S” didn’t actually change it ... in the original Tzeentch battletome “ARCANITE” and “ARCANITES” as keyword bold was used in several places.

Oh well if thats what its suppose to be then thats fine. I mean RAI, I'm pretty sure the s isn't suppose to change anything!

[Murder Pancake]

19 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Technically that was from back in the day prior to the Battletome ... and all of the ARCANITES had the additional S.

They have a similar issue for BRAYHERD vs BRAYHERDS.

They list “Brayherds” in the Allies list ... but there is no “Brayherds” Allegiance. It’s Brayherd.

And there are “BRAYHERD” units ...

It isn’t in a current faq, but I recall that the addition of an “S” didn’t actually change it ... in the original Tzeentch battletome “ARCANITE” and “ARCANITES” as keyword bold was used in several places.

The top of the Command Traits List is “Tzeentch Arcanites” ... for example.

The one of the Familiars gives you a base +1 to cast ... without needing to kill anyone btw.

So if it works by RAI, is it just a matter of Azyr being finicky? In that case, are the familiars compatible with the Balewind Vortex? Or does the GS and Vortex being the same model disrup coherency?

[TheOtherJosh]

2 hours ago, Murder Pancake said:

So if it works by RAI, is it just a matter of Azyr being finicky? In that case, are the familiars compatible with the Balewind Vortex? Or does the GS and Vortex being the same model disrup coherency?

Azyr has its own issues.

Familiars are compatible with the vortex. This is because GS and Familiars counts as a “Single Model” per the Warscroll and as such can be placed together on the balewind.

[Magnus The Blue]

I think anyone who is going to argue that  “ARCANITE” and “ARCANITES” are not interchangeable is probably not worth your time playing, and I'd be shocked if any TO ruling that they are different. 

[Drib]

I noticed, that the Gaunt Summoner, the Magister and the Ogoid are now "Webstore Exclusive". Does someone know why? Is there even a good reason for any Models to be webstore exclusive?

[Magnus The Blue]

4 hours ago, Drib said:

I noticed, that the Gaunt Summoner, the Magister and the Ogoid are now "Webstore Exclusive". Does someone know why? Is there even a good reason for any Models to be webstore exclusive?

Eeep, I hope it doesn't mean they are stopping production. Such nice models.

[Murder Pancake]

That would be unfortunate. The Ogroid is my favorite model outside of the LoC. 

[TheOtherJosh]

5 hours ago, Drib said:

I noticed, that the Gaunt Summoner, the Magister and the Ogoid are now "Webstore Exclusive". Does someone know why? Is there even a good reason for any Models to be webstore exclusive?

Space Limitations at the brick and mortar GW stores.

They are likely gearing up for the next AoS releases, and need space for new models.

[ThePie]

Saw that Mark of the Conjurer now gives 2 fate points instead of 1 when you roll a double on the casting roll. Isn't this extremely powerful on a Lord of Change?  Since his ability that turns lowest casting dice into the highest means this happens every time. Put him near a Chromantic Cogs and he generates 6 fate points by himself every single turn. 

 

 

[Choombatta]

28 minutes ago, ThePie said:

Saw that Mark of the Conjurer now gives 2 fate points instead of 1 when you roll a double on the casting roll. Isn't this extremely powerful on a Lord of Change?  Since his ability that turns lowest casting dice into the highest means this happens every time. Put him near a Chromantic Cogs and he generates 6 fate points by himself every single turn. 

 

 

I would think this is the difference between "roll" and "result".

We play it as the actual roll has to be a double, and a LoC after modifying the dice is a casting roll result.

 

[Big Rob]

Hi all, 

Wondering if anyone has had any luck running a Pyrofane Cult list? With lots of acolytes instead of tzaangors. I like them thematically but not sure how good massed acolytes in pyrofane (or just 1-2 witchfyre) battalion are, compared to the massed tzaangor in e.g. tzaangor coven battalion. 

Thanks

[DrMarmalade]

Yooooo.

Anyone have any thoughts on running a large unit of flamers? I think Kairos is a great support unit for them due to fold reality guarantee.  Battle line would be 30 Tzaangors and 2 units of 10 pinks.

[Rael]

Hey guys wondering if I could get some feedback. Putting together a Tzeentch list but can't decide on the last bit which happen to include Skyfires & Enlightened. 

• Lord of Change 
• Gaunt Summoner 
• Tzaangor Shaman 
• 30 Tzaangors 
• 10 Acolytes 
• 10 Acolytes

This part I'm pretty set on (due to models already in possession). Below is what I'm undecided on...

• 6 Skyfires 
• 3 Enlightened 
• Quicksilver Swords

First option, has a bit of both.

or

• 9 Enlightened 
• Magister

This removes Skyfires entirely but I get a pretty solid main battle line unit in the Enlightened but lose ranged strength in Skyfires. Also gain another caster which is always good.

Thoughts?

Edited August 26, 2018 by Rael

[Magnus The Blue]

Nottingham Contemporary

14 hours ago, DrMarmalade said:

Yooooo.

Anyone have any thoughts on running a large unit of flamers? I think Kairos is a great support unit for them due to fold reality guarantee.  Battle line would be 30 Tzaangors and 2 units of 10 pinks.

I'd love them to work in big units (have about 30 kicking around) but unless they are in an Eternal Conflagration, they are just too fragile to have as a big hard to hide unit.  multiple small units is much better, more champions for extra attacks, easily hidden and the highly random locus ability makes it very hard to gauge how much killing a small unit will take .

Re Rael

Spoiler

2 hours ago, Rael said:

Hey guys wondering if I could get some feedback. Putting together a Tzeentch list but can't decide on the last bit which happen to include Skyfires & Enlightened. 

• Lord of Change 
• Gaunt Summoner 
• Tzaangor Shaman 
• 30 Tzaangors 
• 10 Acolytes 
• 10 Acolytes

This part I'm pretty set on (due to models already in possession). Below is what I'm undecided on...

• 6 Skyfires 
• 3 Enlightened 
• Quicksilver Swords

First option, has a bit of both.

or

• 9 Enlightened 
• Magister

This removes Skyfires entirely but I get a pretty solid main battle line unit in the Enlightened but lose ranged strength in Skyfires. Also gain another caster which is always good.

Thoughts?

 

I'd avoid quicksilver swords like the plague, those sting if your LoC gets them in the face (replace with the Shackles).

Personally prefer the second option anyway, more models, more magic and 9 enlightened is a scary force to handle and has enough wounds to happily strike second to get the crazy rerolls, but I know some people are still crazy about Skyfires.

[Curzex]

In what tier de are after several nerfs?

I think we lost the tier 1 position and get tier 2-3.

Now we are a elite army with no save and very fragile.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Curzex

[RaritanAnon]

So I'm pretty interested in starting up a small army of Tzeentch. I was actually going to do this before 2.0 but was sort of driven away with how cheese Tzeentch was on the onset. Now they're not too terrible. Problem is, I don't know jack about building an army list. This is especially important because I don't want to use any Tzaangors or Kairics at all. Just Daemons of Tzeentch. I'm aiming for 1k right now, but I'm not especially sure what's the best option. I especially don't know what heroes are good any more, but I know I like Screamers and Horrors and Flamers and all that jazz a lot. 

What should I start off with? 

[Magnus The Blue]

59 minutes ago, RaritanAnon said:

So I'm pretty interested in starting up a small army of Tzeentch. I was actually going to do this before 2.0 but was sort of driven away with how cheese Tzeentch was on the onset. Now they're not too terrible. Problem is, I don't know jack about building an army list. This is especially important because I don't want to use any Tzaangors or Kairics at all. Just Daemons of Tzeentch. I'm aiming for 1k right now, but I'm not especially sure what's the best option. I especially don't know what heroes are good any more, but I know I like Screamers and Horrors and Flamers and all that jazz a lot. 

What should I start off with? 

Pure demons are in a decent place right now, nothing really stinks but nothing is crazy good either. I think you can't go too far wrong with the Heros, except I'd avoid Herald on the burning chariot (just not worth 200 points) and make sure your heros will have enough spells for your heros to cast (not a problem if you play with all the malign realm spells).

Screamers and Flamers are OK, not going to win anything on their own but you'll have fun with them as long as you don't over spend.  I really like Blue horrors as a solid screen that can shoot and even gives you a unit of Brimes when they are killed.

Pinks are obviously staple unless your going for Burning Chariots as battle-line (not recommended) and too be fair they are good.  

Personally I love the Change Host for pure demons (not Viable at 1k), Great manoeuvrability and makes your army sooooo much more effective if you get given first turn.  So if I was starting from scratch I'd start building towards that from day one (not hard, a few start collecting boxes, a pair of Blue/Brims boxes and a LoC), after that start filling up on the special characters (all solid).

[GeneralZero]

Is the battleforce box a nice start? it contains

1 Tzaangor Shaman
20 Tzaangors
3 Tzaangor Enlightened
3 Tzaangor Skyfires
20 Kairic Acolytes 

If I go down this route, what do I need? (objective 2k points to fight my own other armies : sce, death, nh which all are competitive)

[Calum Todd]

On 8/25/2018 at 5:08 AM, Big Rob said:

Hi all, 

Wondering if anyone has had any luck running a Pyrofane Cult list? With lots of acolytes instead of tzaangors. I like them thematically but not sure how good massed acolytes in pyrofane (or just 1-2 witchfyre) battalion are, compared to the massed tzaangor in e.g. tzaangor coven battalion. 

Thanks

Very difficult to justify in my opinion and it's a battalion I really want to make work. Arcanite Cabal is not very good as far as battalions go and it eats up a lot of points. If Curselings or Ogroid's were available in there it wouldn't be so bad perhaps.

Acolyte shooting isn't so hot either - even with shooting in hero phase (T1 this could be useless) and progressively better shooting. You'll probably get more actual damage out of the Tzaangor Banner.

The bare minimum (if taking Magisters and not Fatemasters for the Cabal) doesn't leave you with much options. With that said I'd try this myself:

Tzaangor Shaman

3x Magisters (Arcanite Cabal)

2x20 Acoyltes

3 Enlightened

30 Tzaangor

Arcanite Cabal - Witchfyre Coven - Pyrofance Cult

It's 2K on the nose and 1 drop.

 

4 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Is the battleforce box a nice start? it contains

1 Tzaangor Shaman
20 Tzaangors
3 Tzaangor Enlightened
3 Tzaangor Skyfires
20 Kairic Acolytes 

If I go down this route, what do I need? (objective 2k points to fight my own other armies : sce, death, nh which all are competitive)

I'd get another box of Tzaangors to bump it up to 30 - this give you your 3 battline options (Acolytes in 10s). Then probably another box of disc riders - either style, then some heroes (Gaunt Summoner, Curseling, Ogroid, Magister) to finish it off. You could also go down the daemon route if you wanted to.

I like the look of this myself:

Lord of Change

Gaunt Summoner

Tzaangor Shaman

30 Tzaangors

2x10 Acolytes

3 Enlightened

6 Skyfire

Edited August 27, 2018 by Calum Todd