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AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion


Gaz Taylor
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How many chaos spawn should we have available in our summoning pool? With just a Magister I'm guessing that 2 would be plenty, but what about a magic focused list with Kairos + Magister + Blue Scribes? What's the most you've ever ended up with on the battlefield at the same time?

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23 hours ago, frostyeel said:

How many chaos spawn should we have available in our summoning pool? With just a Magister I'm guessing that 2 would be plenty, but what about a magic focused list with Kairos + Magister + Blue Scribes? What's the most you've ever ended up with on the battlefield at the same time?

I have 4 spawns, and I run what you stated above, never really felt I needed more. Most of the time they’re killed right away because you’re using them as chaff blockers most of Time.

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I'm considering a second army to play alongside SCE which I've played all through 1st and 2nd. I was looking at Slaanesh but my enthusiasm has waned, so thinking of picking up Tzeentch as it was what I used to play in WHFB. 

Here's my first attempt at a 1500 point Guild of Summoners list, feedback would be welcome! 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Guild of Summoners
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Tzaangor Shaman (160)*
- General
- Command Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible
- Artefact: Brimstone Familiar
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
The Changeling (170)*
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (135)*
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (135)**
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (215)**
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (215)**

Units
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (200)*
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (210)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Battle Regiment

Total: 1485 / 1500
Reinforced Units: 0 / 3
Allies: 0 / 300
Wounds: 65
Drops: 6
 

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On 8/11/2021 at 8:19 AM, Starfyre said:

I'm considering a second army to play alongside SCE which I've played all through 1st and 2nd. I was looking at Slaanesh but my enthusiasm has waned, so thinking of picking up Tzeentch as it was what I used to play in WHFB. 

Here's my first attempt at a 1500 point Guild of Summoners list, feedback would be welcome! 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Guild of Summoners
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Tzaangor Shaman (160)*
- General
- Command Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible
- Artefact: Brimstone Familiar
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
The Changeling (170)*
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (135)*
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (135)**
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (215)**
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (215)**

Units
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (200)*
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (210)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Battle Regiment

Total: 1485 / 1500
Reinforced Units: 0 / 3
Allies: 0 / 300
Wounds: 65
Drops: 6
 

Don't you need three battleline?

 

Ally the skyfyres from beasts of chaos to save you some points. I'd drop the pink horrors for arcanites. The new rulings are saying emerald lifeswarm can't bring back pink horrors until the unit is below ten models in size, so horrors are better for summoning now. Plus horrors are best in duplicitous and conflag.

 

If you're taking Kairos find points for umbral portal for the first turn gift of change into an important buff piece.

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Thanks for all your suggestions! I Believe it’s two battleline for 1500pts.

With guild of summoners I didn’t think I could summon in horrors, so figured it was worth having their casts to contribute to getting a LoC and then being able to benefit from their command ability, plus they seemed more survivability for objectives and had a better rate of fire than the mortals. Or is that not really how it goes in practice? Not too worried about the lifeSwarm.

 

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20 minutes ago, Starfyre said:

Thanks for all your suggestions! I Believe it’s two battleline for 1500pts.

With guild of summoners I didn’t think I could summon in horrors, so figured it was worth having their casts to contribute to getting a LoC and then being able to benefit from their command ability, plus they seemed more survivability for objectives and had a better rate of fire than the mortals. Or is that not really how it goes in practice? Not too worried about the lifeSwarm.

 

Ah missed the guild. I've been on an arcanum and conflag bender lately... Anyway, the lifeswarm is more problematic when trying to return horrors. Shackles is better because it stops charges into your line and stalls the enemy. Super good against gargants but meta dependent. Definitely try to get portal in, it's so good with fateweaver. Creating spawns won me two out of three games I won at the past gt.

 

I like horrors as summons, I think the range on acolytes is better and they can get rend one without having to be in eternal conflag. 

 

You'll probably summon a chicken turn one. And probably a second on turn two. The acolytes give you a bigger cushion of bodies to keep your casters out of melee and pumping out spells so you can summon on objectives, fwiw.

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4 hours ago, Starfyre said:

Thanks for all your suggestions! I Believe it’s two battleline for 1500pts.

With guild of summoners I didn’t think I could summon in horrors, so figured it was worth having their casts to contribute to getting a LoC and then being able to benefit from their command ability, plus they seemed more survivability for objectives and had a better rate of fire than the mortals. Or is that not really how it goes in practice? Not too worried about the lifeSwarm.

 

It used to be 2 battleline for 1500, but in the new GHB it's bracketed differently. Anything below 1k points needs 2 battleline, anything above needs 3. They unfortunately don't give any other army sizes, such as 1500 or 2500.

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36 minutes ago, Domize said:

It used to be 2 battleline for 1500, but in the new GHB it's bracketed differently. Anything below 1k points needs 2 battleline, anything above needs 3. They unfortunately don't give any other army sizes, such as 1500 or 2500.

Our group use the contest of generals table from the core book which gives you different unit compositions for more granular game sizes:

AoSDaily ArmySelection Jun11 Boxout1

Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/11/core-battalion-rules-shake-up-matched-play-army-building-in-the-new-edition/

However, no harm is taking 3 battlleline and working toward a 2K point army.

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15 hours ago, Starfyre said:

Our group use the contest of generals table from the core book which gives you different unit compositions for more granular game sizes:

AoSDaily ArmySelection Jun11 Boxout1

Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/11/core-battalion-rules-shake-up-matched-play-army-building-in-the-new-edition/

However, no harm is taking 3 battlleline and working toward a 2K point army.

Oh wow, we hadn't seen this and only followed the GHB. Thanks for pointing this out!

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5 hours ago, AaronWilson said:

Out of interest why is lifeswarm not allowing us return pinks to a unit that is above 10 models? Say it's like 20 blues (that was once 10 pinks). 

I guess the ruling was made that max unit size is the original purchase size of the unit not the maximum size you can buy. Split split again says it can increase models above starting size but the rulebook says units cannot go above max size.

 

So it's ambiguous. In the final round I guess it was sort of important and the to ruled against adding pink horrors.

 

I think you can add/return pinks so long as the unit is below the max purchasable size of thirty models. But honestly I have no idea if that is right.

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It is not ambiguous. There is a base rule that states units cannot excide their starting size. 

Split and Split again has an exception to this rule baked into it so you can go over your starting unit when split and split again happens. Life Swarm have no such exception in its wording so it can not bring back pinks unless you are below the units starting size.

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34 minutes ago, Chaos Shepard said:

It is not ambiguous. There is a base rule that states units cannot excide their starting size. 

Split and Split again has an exception to this rule baked into it so you can go over your starting unit when split and split again happens. Life Swarm have no such exception in its wording so it can not bring back pinks unless you are below the units starting size.

Do you have a page number for that? Because the only rule I've ever seen is a side text bubble saying units can't exceed their max size with absolutely no definition of what a max size is. 

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On 8/5/2021 at 7:42 PM, djrodriguez123 said:

I have 4 spawns, and I run what you stated above, never really felt I needed more. Most of the time they’re killed right away because you’re using them as chaff blockers most of Time.

I would love to play a "Tzeentch Control Army" but can´t get any games in right now.

Would you (and everyone else) care to give a rundown on how you play such an army, revolving around Spawns, Pinks, Kairos, maybe Be´lakor, Changeling, Vortex Beast, Bray Shaman or other control elements. I guess the host of choice would be Duplicitous...

I am really looking forward to some strategic input, maybe even with regards to the top armies right now (Sons, everything including Archaon or Nagah, Lumineth, Seraphon...)

Thanks a bunch!

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There's still people "climbing up on mirrors" , desperately needing anyone in GW saying black in white that the max number of a unit of 10 models is 10 and that "returning" means "to add back" so there's no difference between the 2 wording. So GW can we please make them happy so we can play the same game now? thanks

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Is there any rule that you need to allocate wounds to blues before brimstones? I don't see anything that says so. So, starting from a unit of 10 pinks you could get down to having 0 pinks, 9 blues, 0 brimstones, and then be able to add back pinks, but with more wounds to help the unit survive until your next hero phase than if it had 0 blues and 9 brimstones.

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11 hours ago, frostyeel said:

Is there any rule that you need to allocate wounds to blues before brimstones? I don't see anything that says so. So, starting from a unit of 10 pinks you could get down to having 0 pinks, 9 blues, 0 brimstones, and then be able to add back pinks, but with more wounds to help the unit survive until your next hero phase than if it had 0 blues and 9 brimstones.

Wow, you are Right. I checked that myself now and you can do that! But you need to kill that pink first again.😅

 

 

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I'm attending 5 weekenders 100+ players events in September - October. They have all ruled that you can't return models to a unit of Horrors (Icon, Fold Reality, Rally, Emerald Lifeswarm) until you are below the maximum starting unit size. So essentially no returning a pink until you're down to 9 brims if you start with a unit of 10 Pinks.

I can understand why and to be honest I can see a FAQ going this way as well. 215 points for 50 wounds is still amazing value. 

Edited by AaronWilson
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On 8/20/2021 at 9:19 AM, AaronWilson said:

I'm attending 5 weekenders 100+ players events in September - October. They have all ruled that you can't return models to a unit of Horrors (Icon, Fold Reality, Rally, Emerald Lifeswarm) until you are below the maximum starting unit size. So essentially no returning a pink until you're down to 9 brims if you start with a unit of 10 Pinks.

I can understand why and to be honest I can see a FAQ going this way as well. 215 points for 50 wounds is still amazing value. 

How are they ruling Rally? Assuming down to 1 brimstone from a unit of 10 pink's, is that 49 dice? Do further blues and brimstones dead increase the dice pool?

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On 8/20/2021 at 4:19 AM, AaronWilson said:

I'm attending 5 weekenders 100+ players events in September - October. They have all ruled that you can't return models to a unit of Horrors (Icon, Fold Reality, Rally, Emerald Lifeswarm) until you are below the maximum starting unit size. So essentially no returning a pink until you're down to 9 brims if you start with a unit of 10 Pinks.

I can understand why and to be honest I can see a FAQ going this way as well. 215 points for 50 wounds is still amazing value. 

What about the unit summoned by the Gaunt Summoner? (5pinks) Could you use a return mechanism to bring back some since the minimal unit size is usually 10?

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