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AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion


Gaz Taylor
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Anyone else think Guild of summoners stonks are up? New cogs is a steal at 45 points giving a spell to each wizard within 6". I threw this together last night, and while there's certainly room for improvement and modification once we figure out how coalition works (this list would love gor/ungor/ungor raider chaff, maybe grashrak, and the gaunt summoner on disk is cheaper and an upgrade) Plus I've got no idea if the vortex beast is still gonna work.

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Guild of Summoners

Battalions:

-Command Entourage

    -Enhancement: Spell Lores

-Battle Regiment


Leaders
The Blue Scribes (135)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm

- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (255)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond

- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (185)
- General
- Command Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible
- Artefact: Brimstone Familiar
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum

- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (135)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation

- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch

Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (125)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (125)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (125)
20 x Tzaangors (390)

Units
10 x Blue Horrors of Tzeentch (140)

Behemoths
Mutalith Vortex Beast (175)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Purple Sun of Shyish (70)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)
Tome of Eyes (50)

Total: 1965 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112(147, pending horror changes)

 

This list has 13 spellcasts if I wrap the heroes around the cogs, and it wouldn't be hard to bump the number up. I'd be interested in a ruling on whether kairics can try to cast their spell multiple times, but the current wording seems to indicate no.

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56 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Anyone else think Guild of summoners stonks are up? New cogs is a steal at 45 points giving a spell to each wizard within 6". I threw this together last night, and while there's certainly room for improvement and modification once we figure out how coalition works (this list would love gor/ungor/ungor raider chaff, maybe grashrak, and the gaunt summoner on disk is cheaper and an upgrade) Plus I've got no idea if the vortex beast is still gonna work.

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Guild of Summoners

Battalions:

-Command Entourage

    -Enhancement: Spell Lores

-Battle Regiment


Leaders
The Blue Scribes (135)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm

- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (255)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond

- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (185)
- General
- Command Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible
- Artefact: Brimstone Familiar
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum

- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (135)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation

- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch

Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (125)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (125)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (125)
20 x Tzaangors (390)

Units
10 x Blue Horrors of Tzeentch (140)

Behemoths
Mutalith Vortex Beast (175)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Purple Sun of Shyish (70)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)
Tome of Eyes (50)

Total: 1965 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112(147, pending horror changes)

 

This list has 13 spellcasts if I wrap the heroes around the cogs, and it wouldn't be hard to bump the number up. I'd be interested in a ruling on whether kairics can try to cast their spell multiple times, but the current wording seems to indicate no.

What does the Vortex Beast bring that is worth it? The model seems generally underwhelming to me. You could consider darkfire daemonrift to be cast off of the Gaunt summoner ;) you can also cast up to 14 spells there if the changecaster spellcast goes well. First lord of change also brings beacon of sorcery which helps further.

 

Why Tzaangors? If you need bulk then probably warriors of chaos would be better, if we still can take them.

Edited by shalvan
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1 minute ago, shalvan said:

What does the Vortex Beast bring that is worth it? The model seems generally underwhelming to me. You could consider darkfire daemonrift to be cast off of the Gaunt summoner ;) you can also cast up to 14 spells there if the changecaster spellcast goes well. First lord of change also brings beacon of sorcery which helps further.

Mostly just a monster for monster rules (plus it looks cool), it should also fit into the "monster" slot in battle regiment to keep the list at 4 drops, although I could probably run a sorc lord on manticore or upgrade the blues to something tough. Once we get coalition rules sorted out I'll have a better idea of what to do with it.

As for the LoC between 13-14 spellcasts and blue scribes giving rerolls I'm not too concerned about having one on board right at the start of the game, although maybe i should be.

I've got a feeling we can't bring in endless spells from other factions anymore. The new rules only let you pick units from your faction, and endless spells are from there. Maybe we can bring it in using ally points? Its not clear to me at the moment which is why I left it out. Daemonrift would be great in place of purple sun.

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Have Disciples of Tzeentch been un-Gor-ed?

Sorry if this has already been asked but I can't find it and the AOS.3 threads are too unwieldly to go back over.

With the new 3.0 rules on battalions does this mean that Disciples loose the option of the Phantasmagoria of Fate Battalion and does this mean that the various types of beastmen (who aren't bird-beastmen) can no longer be part of a Tzeentch army (except as allies?)

I mean I'm obviously all for change, but this would suck...

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Just now, EntMan said:

Have Disciples of Tzeentch been un-Gor-ed?

Sorry if this has already been asked but I can't find it and the AOS.3 threads are too unwieldly to go back over.

With the new 3.0 rules on battalions does this mean that Disciples loose the option of the Phantasmagoria of Fate Battalion and does this mean that the various types of beastmen (who aren't bird-beastmen) can no longer be part of a Tzeentch army (except as allies?)

I mean I'm obviously all for change, but this would suck...

Looks like it, but maybe they'll be worked into the cohorts system mentioned in the GHB but we'll need to wait for the erratas since the GHB mentioned it would be in the battletomes. 

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1 minute ago, Ganigumo said:

Looks like it, but maybe they'll be worked into the cohorts system mentioned in the GHB but we'll need to wait for the erratas since the GHB mentioned it would be in the battletomes. 

This is sad news. Do Tzeentch armies still get access to the 'general chaos' stuff with the Mark of Chaos ability?

 

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7 minutes ago, EntMan said:

This is sad news. Do Tzeentch armies still get access to the 'general chaos' stuff with the Mark of Chaos ability?

 

Yes. Taking Chaos Warriors in a Blades of Khorne army is specifically mentioned in the GHB. However we don't have the full picture because the mechanism for taking StD and BoC units in god marked armies will be "coalition units", but we don't have a definition for that yet. Each battletome will get a day 1 FAQ to make the allegiance abilities compatible with AoS 3 and these should provide the details on coalition units. So far all we know is that coalition units can't fulfill battleline.

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1 minute ago, Brad999 said:

So rules as written at the moment you can take coalition units with tzeentch keyword, which could be the cheaper tzaangor, enlightened, skyfires and shaman from BoC. Haha

Yes, though the tzaangor would not be battleline. 

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3 hours ago, Brad999 said:

Yeah but no reason not to for all tzaangor on disc, I agree with people though, unless there are warscroll changes or points corrections tzeentch and slannesh are dead on arrival 

Cogs might single handedly carry guild of summoners up a bit. You could probably get enough spells to get a second LoC on t2 now.

 

Slaanesh was already dead.

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12 hours ago, Brad999 said:

Yeah but no reason not to for all tzaangor on disc, I agree with people though, unless there are warscroll changes or points corrections tzeentch and slannesh are dead on arrival 

Dead on arrival is a pretty huge stretch. We can still mob the board with horrors people cant retreat from. I dont think flamers hit as badly seeing as we can unleash hell and in some cases still hit on 3s.

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13 hours ago, Brad999 said:

So rules as written at the moment you can take coalition units with tzeentch keyword, which could be the cheaper tzaangor, enlightened, skyfires and shaman from BoC. Haha

If Beasts of Chaos are a Coalition option for Tzeentch, then yes.

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2 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Dead on arrival is a pretty huge stretch. We can still mob the board with horrors people cant retreat from. I dont think flamers hit as badly seeing as we can unleash hell and in some cases still hit on 3s.

OK, I must admit dead on arrival is a bit extreme. I know a big faq due and horrors will get changed but currently cant go above starting models, fleeing is not killed and way too many ways to stop inspiring to force a battleshock. You also cant zone as much with them

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10 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Cogs might single handedly carry guild of summoners up a bit. You could probably get enough spells to get a second LoC on t2 now.

 

Slaanesh was already dead.

This is true, take kairos, blue scribes and belakor and if all spells go off, with reroll spells, you get a LoC on turn 1 which is a huge amount of points. Then by turn 3 you are around the point of another.

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10 minutes ago, Brad999 said:

This is true, take kairos, blue scribes and belakor and if all spells go off, with reroll spells, you get a LoC on turn 1 which is a huge amount of points. Then by turn 3 you are around the point of another.

In terms of spells per point you'll want to be looking at stuff like gaunt summoners, curseling, kairics, and blue scribes. I posted a list earlier which wasn't too heavily optimized, but I had an extra hero slot and had like 13-14 spellcasts with plenty of points to play around with.

Obviously models like kairos and be'lakor have a lot to offer that isn't just spellcasts though.

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Guild of summoners

Kairos - 435, Skyfires x6 - 420, Acolites 2 x 10 - 250,  Blue scribes - 135,  Belakor - 360,  Pink horrors - 215, Emerald lifeswarm - 60, Cogs 45, Shackles 65 (Total 1975) 

Host arcanum ( 6 free screamers

Kairos - 435,   Skyfires x6 - 420,   Screamers 3 x 3 - 300,   Magister - 125,   Belakor - 360 Enlightened on disc  - 200,   Emerald lifeswarm - 60,   Shackles - 65  (Total 1965)

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1/2 year ago i bought 9 tzaangores on discs and a pack of 10 Tzaangores, my plan was to do some trickery and make the 10 tzangores into 9 tzaangores on discs and 1 shaman. The plan was Host arcanum for a screamer battleline and my heroes where to be a magister on disc, fatemaster, tzangore shaman and/or maby a Gaunt Summoner. Everyone would have 16 move and fly. Luckely for me it seams like the units that i was most interested in did not get hit that hard, but maby they were so weak that the little increase in pts killed them. Anyways it seams like a fun list with a lot of sniping and hard dmg.

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13 hours ago, Brad999 said:

This is true, take kairos, blue scribes and belakor and if all spells go off, with reroll spells, you get a LoC on turn 1 which is a huge amount of points. Then by turn 3 you are around the point of another.

Be'lakor doesnt generate Fate Points and TBS doesn't get one from his sigle die-roll spell FYI. I'd still definitley take TBS though.

Edited by Sinfullyvannila
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13 hours ago, Brad999 said:

OK, I must admit dead on arrival is a bit extreme. I know a big faq due and horrors will get changed but currently cant go above starting models, fleeing is not killed and way too many ways to stop inspiring to force a battleshock. You also cant zone as much with them

Worst case scenario is we only have to bomb one of our Pink Horrors instead of splitting it.

Things arent going to be hitting our Horrors as hard as they used to either with coherency and its still 10 bravery and an autopass on 1s for our Icon Bearer.

Horrors are so much better off than most 32mil models in this edition its not even funny. The sky is most certainly not falling for them.

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4 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Worst case scenario is we only have to bomb one of our Pink Horrors instead of splitting it.

Things arent going to be hitting our Horrors as hard as they used to either with coherency and its still 10 bravery and an autopass on 1s for our Icon Bearer.

Horrors are so much better off than most 32mil models in this edition its not even funny. The sky is most certainly not falling for them.

They've lost a little to not being battleline as soon as one pink splits. That could cost you vp in scenarios where battleline and heroes gain control of objectives. 

One unit at most is enough now I think 

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2 hours ago, CountryMou3e said:

They've lost a little to not being battleline as soon as one pink splits. That could cost you vp in scenarios where battleline and heroes gain control of objectives. 

One unit at most is enough now I think 

25.5.1 "A Unit that has a conditional battlefield role keeps it for the entire battle, even if the conditions that required it to have that battleflied role in the first place change during the battle (your general is slain, for ecample.)"

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10 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Be'lakor doesnt generate Fate Points and TBS doesn't get one from his sigle die-roll spell FYI. I'd still definitley take TBS though.

Actually both should. We get a point whenever a spell is cast and not unbound, it doesn't need to be a tzeentch wizard to do it. We generate them from our opponents spellcasts so theres no reason we wouldnt get them from an ally.

The description for the blue scribes says on a roll of 2+ the spell is automatically cast, which means it should also generate a FP unless i'm missing something.

23 hours ago, Brad999 said:

Guild of summoners

Kairos - 435, Skyfires x6 - 420, Acolites 2 x 10 - 250,  Blue scribes - 135,  Belakor - 360,  Pink horrors - 215, Emerald lifeswarm - 60, Cogs 45, Shackles 65 (Total 1975) 

Host arcanum ( 6 free screamers

Kairos - 435,   Skyfires x6 - 420,   Screamers 3 x 3 - 300,   Magister - 125,   Belakor - 360 Enlightened on disc  - 200,   Emerald lifeswarm - 60,   Shackles - 65  (Total 1965)

With the new coherency rules I would avoid skyfires in 6s, I used them like that in aos2 and it was fine, but you end up losing out on a lot of melee output in 6s now because of the new coherency rules.

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