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AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion


Gaz Taylor
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16 hours ago, Rellsipels said:

01UIHTkmjtvjQPcv.jpg

This sounds absolutely crazy with Horrors. I'm convinced they'll make some changes to the Horrors warscroll, or something, to make this a bit more reasonable. What changes, if any, would you like to see? Or not see?

The only thing I'd expect to see is them cleaning up what 'slain' is to avoid splitting from battleshock losses. Other than that I don't expect a full rewrite until the next battletome comes out. Might see some point hikes if the unit becomes too oppressive?

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Hello,

I'm a new player looking to try playing with disciples of Tzeentch using proxies. I am not a fan of most daemon models, I do quite like the screamers, however. So I did compile a Hosts Arcanum list focusing on them as battleline - basically a spam. I figured they are great against monsters and against wizards, the problem I would see against hordes - but then we do have spells to help with this issue.

Could you please take a look and give me some feedback on the list?

 

Hosts Arcanum (HTML)

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Technically Kairos can't take lore spells.... (pending FAQ, "Unique" units can't take enhancements, and spells are enhancements...)

But also artifacts and CT. Kairos certainly seems like the winner to me too though, unless we see kairos go up more than the LoC.

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There's nothing preventing Kairos from taking additional spells at the moment. The rules (section 27.3.1) does state that "Enhancements cannot be given to Unique units or allied units, unless noted othwerwise", and when spell lores are described it is clearly stated that every wizard gets to choose a spell - and there's even sidebar stating the same, with the word every being underlined:

image.png.4d37047d098888b209c7efc79dfc48d7.png

Edited by Painbringer
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54 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

There's also a rule saying enhancements are given, and a sidebar saying if you are forced to give a unique character an enhancement they can't use it.

True, but it still does not prevent wizards from accessing additional spells - it is there to stop characters from receiving subfaction artifacts and traits, because they must be given to your heroes before anything else.

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33 minutes ago, Painbringer said:

True, but it still does not prevent wizards from accessing additional spells - it is there to stop characters from receiving subfaction artifacts and traits, because they must be given to your heroes before anything else.

It does though

  • 27.3 Enhancements are given to units
  • 27.3.1 Unique units can not be given enhancements unless specified otherwise
  • sidebar beside 27.3.1: If a rule forces you to give an enhancement to a unique unit the unit cannot use it and it has no effect
  • Spell Lores is an enhancement (and therefore given to wizards in the army)
  • Sidebar notes that it lets EVERY wizard in the army know 1 spell from a spell lore (this doesn't contradict 27.3.1 since it isn't specifying unique units can use it)
  • Even if we interpret the sidebar to count as an exception, the sidebar to 27.3.1 means they wouldn't be able to use it anyways

I'm certain this wasn't intentional and they just screwed up the rules here.

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Worst case scenario, its not that big a deal for Kairos. Use Kairos exclusively to cast other characters warscroll spells and have those characters cast lore spells. All it really hurts is Changeling and he was pretty ridiculous anyway.

Edited by Sinfullyvannila
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12 minutes ago, Painbringer said:

image.png.3d76d0ac0b3c44117a77984b6bcd0c6c.png

I'm sorry but what is this garbage?

Tzaangors up 35!!! points, despite being on 32mm bases with 1" reach
WHILE HORRORS WENT DOWN!

What is this madness. They don't even have any synergy in the book.

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Yeah, I don't get it, although Tzaangor only went up 15 points, not 35. Flamers and their various relations skyrocketed in price. Kairic AColytes apparently warranted a 25% increase too for some reason (!).

Am I being blind, or is the Gaunt Summoner on Disc just.... not on the list?

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13 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

Yeah, I don't get it, although Tzaangor only went up 15 points, not 35. Flamers and their various relations skyrocketed in price. Kairic AColytes apparently warranted a 25% increase too for some reason (!).

Am I being blind, or is the Gaunt Summoner on Disc just.... not on the list?

He’s in the StD section (as that’s where his WS is). And he’s 230 points for some reason, which means that the strictly better disk version is cheaper than his foot slogging equivalent.

Yeah, that’s an oversight and a half.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m totally onboard for Tzeentch’s big offenders to get nerfed, but why did they come after a lot of the for fun options as well?

Why is the Burning Sigil doubled in cost?

Why did Chaos Spawn of all things become more expensive?

Tzaangors, a unit that’s rarely used currently and hurt by the new edition quite badly got a 15 point increase?

And Horrors went down?

Just strange.

 

Edited by PONCHOGRANDE
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A reason for pinks going down in cost can be that they are getting a reworked warscroll. Also another reason is hidden in rule 25.3 (side paragraph), basically splitting 1 pink now generates  1 blue, not 2. Also BS casualties don't split (they don't count as slain anymore)  

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14 minutes ago, Paniere said:

A reason for pinks going down in cost can be that they are getting a reworked warscroll. Also another reason is hidden in rule 25.3 (side paragraph), basically splitting 1 pink now generates  1 blue, not 2. Also BS casualties don't split (they don't count as slain anymore)  

Didn’t catch that the first time. I imagine that Horrors will be the exception to the rule, given they are the only unit that functions like they do.

 

Can only hope for an FAQ to clear this up.

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1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

I'm sorry but what is this garbage?

Tzaangors up 35!!! points, despite being on 32mm bases with 1" reach
WHILE HORRORS WENT DOWN!

What is this madness. They don't even have any synergy in the book.

Tzaangors synergies were in the Agendas and the Burning Sigil. Thats probably why they are cheaper in BoC.

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1 hour ago, Acrozatarim said:

. Kairic AColytes apparently warranted a 25% increase too for some reason (!).

Maybe because of unleash hell, frontloading for summons and AFAIK they still count as wizards for the purpose of putting Endless Spells in our lists.

 

EDIT: Nm you need the keyword to bring a spell

Edited by Sinfullyvannila
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On 6/22/2018 at 2:01 PM, Lou_Cypher said:
On 6/22/2018 at 11:30 AM, Hoseman said:

So I dont know where to post this cause it's a question I have between Slaves to Darkness and Tzeentch adn chaos in general.

I'm planing to start Chaos after summer and I was thinking of Battleforce Tzentch because I love the models and have silver tower so I have Gaunt Summoner, Ogroid and Pink horror Herald to use as heroes. This plus the battleforce gives me 1500 points with 4 heroes and 5 magic casting. This is fine.

The thing is I will absolutely buy Archaon. I think it's an awesome model and a way to have something for every chaos army if I wanna go later for another. And here's my doubt, if maybe Archaon doesn't fit with Tzeench or if maybe I should go instead of that Battleforce for two Start collecting Slaves to Darkness.

 So I think Archaon works well with every army but will it go well with Tzeench?? with him I would go 7 magic spells for turn if I put all heroes.

I like slaves to darkness but I have more than 2k from stormcast and I think they play similar way. Tzeenech has a lot of magic and I think with archaon could be fun. The other armys I have a bit "similar" is Sylvaneth with 2 treelord, 2 wizards and Alarille that go 7 magic spells too.

Expand  

I've had some success with Archaon + Fateweaver if against other big Monsters.

Main problem really is the lack of Command Abilities to take advantage of for Tzeentch Allegiances.

I’ve gotten lost in the back and forth re:StD and the Chaos Gods.  I just got Archaon.  Can I still build a TZ list around him?

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Oh guys, i think you should calm down a Bit! There will be a big FAQ at the start of the third to clear Most Things up! 
like it always was!😅

i think some warscrolls and rules get totally updated wich might explain all this!🤷🏼‍♂️ 
Do you remember the time when AoS 1.0 was introduced? All the hate, just like today! And know the System got More player then ever! Just chill. And let the hate spread if i am wrong. 
now stop the whining and take it like man/or strong women!(i Hope nobody feels offended!😅)

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3 hours ago, ssharkus said:

These points are trash. Looks like Tzeench is finally going to the shelf. It took GW almost 5 years to "balance" DoT to this point)

There was an analyses done and the average points increase was something like 7.96%. tzeentch increased almost 30%.

 

Yet cities and lumineth and seraphon don't get wrecked with the same type of increase despite being as good if not better already.

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Nice to see that every unit I actually enjoy was jacked up in price. Really swell there GW. I understand the changes were necessary under the new rules but they're really hampering my army of screamers with both a points increase and the reinforcement rules. Would have appreciated them going up in size, or something. At least there will be more monsters this edition. 
 

No idea what my Tzaangor did. Still trucking through 60 Kairic acolytes and they probably won't hit the table entirely either.

Don't mind me. Just entirely bummed about screamers and the fact that it will be hard to justify running as many as I usually do...I have about...42, last I counted. 

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