AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Kasper]

On 2/25/2021 at 9:46 AM, Sinfullyvannila said:

Its more that the Daemon side is way too good than anything else.

The batallions are still rather restrictive. I dont play Flamers so I often opt out of taking any batallion.

Even Changehost is semi restrictive - It forces you into a 100% Horror/Flamer + Horror heroes + LoC army. No Kairos, no Manticore etc. 

Changehost is an insane batallion no doubt, but it still heavily forces your entire army building down one path - Thats why you see very little differences between the Changehost builds doing good. 

[Sinfullyvannila]

8 hours ago, Kasper said:

The batallions are still rather restrictive. I dont play Flamers so I often opt out of taking any batallion.

Even Changehost is semi restrictive - It forces you into a 100% Horror/Flamer + Horror heroes + LoC army. No Kairos, no Manticore etc. 

Changehost is an insane batallion no doubt, but it still heavily forces your entire army building down one path - Thats why you see very little differences between the Changehost builds doing good. 

Its literally every TZEENTCH DAEMON in the book except Kairos and Gaunt Summoners. Are there even any battalions that are from battletomes that let you use units which dont have their warscrolls in the same book?

[Kasper]

11 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Its literally every TZEENTCH DAEMON in the book except Kairos and Gaunt Summoners. Are there even any battalions that are from battletomes that let you use units which dont have their warscrolls in the same book?

Yes, but it still requires 8 units of those. It doesnt say "3-8" or "up to 8", it is exactly 8. If you take just about "the bare minimum" to fulfill the requirements of the batallion, you are looking at 1500ish points rather quickly, and thats before spending another 210 pts on endless spells (typically Geminids, Daemonrift, maybe Spellportal). 

This army wont kill anything and you still dont have Kairos, Manticore or Be'lakor etc in the army. Thats why you dont see Changehost outside of Flamer spam because it IS restrictive and the only way to get damage into the army, while meeting the requirements of the batallion, is to have tons of Flamers. You pretty much cant play a magic version of Tzeentch while getting all the other stuff.

 

 

Again, Im not trying to claim Changehost is a bad batallion. It obviously isnt it. But it isnt a batallion that just says "pick whatever you want from this book and you are good". It heavily forces you down one road and is super restrictive when it comes to building your army.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Kasper

[Sinfullyvannila]

28 minutes ago, Kasper said:

Yes, but it still requires 8 units of those. It doesnt say "3-8" or "up to 8", it is exactly 8. If you take just about "the bare minimum" to fulfill the requirements of the batallion, you are looking at 1500ish points rather quickly, and thats before spending another 210 pts on endless spells (typically Geminids, Daemonrift, maybe Spellportal). 

This army wont kill anything and you still dont have Kairos, Manticore or Be'lakor etc in the army. Thats why you dont see Changehost outside of Flamer spam because it IS restrictive and the only way to get damage into the army, while meeting the requirements of the batallion, is to have tons of Flamers. You pretty much cant play a magic version of Tzeentch while getting all the other stuff.

 

 

Again, Im not trying to claim Changehost is a bad batallion. It obviously isnt it. But it isnt a batallion that just says "pick whatever you want from this book and you are good". It heavily forces you down one road and is super restrictive when it comes to building your army.

Hard disagree. You can bring whatever you want in a changehost list unless "what you want" is more than 1/4 of your list to be not demons or you want to bring Kairos and another unit. We are one of the few factions that can put enough durability on the table not to need damage to win games.

[Kasper]

4 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Hard disagree. You can bring whatever you want in a changehost list unless "what you want" is more than 1/4 of your list to be not demons or you want to bring Kairos and another unit. We are one of the few factions that can put enough durability on the table not to need damage to win games.

Would love to see a reasonable Chagehost list that doesnt bring any Flamers.

[Sinfullyvannila]

10 hours ago, Kasper said:

Would love to see a reasonable Chagehost list that doesnt bring any Flamers.

Horror spam in Hosts Duplicitous. Im pretty sure people only don't run it because of time constraints. Probably put in one MSU of screamers since we cant summon reliably against Teclis. People win games at tournaments with Ungor spam and its far worse. Although with new DoK it may become nonviable. Apparently they can wipe a horror blob fairly reliably.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Sinfullyvannila

[DailyMatters]

Hi everyone! I just found these forums and the amount of information is stunning!

I want to get my feet wet in Age of Sigmar and Tzeentch and I have the opportunity to snatch the Aether war box.

For someone who owns absolutely no Tzeentch minis at the moment and want to start doing some mini games, how would you rate this buy? ( I also like the overlords so that would be an extra). 
 

I kind of know that in terms of Tzeentch the contents of the box are not that great, but would it allow me to expand it in significant ways in the future? If so, how ( assuming I stay loyal to the mortal side of Tzeentch)?

Many thanks for any help you can give me starting this journey.

[Sinfullyvannila]

9 hours ago, DailyMatters said:

Hi everyone! I just found these forums and the amount of information is stunning!

I want to get my feet wet in Age of Sigmar and Tzeentch and I have the opportunity to snatch the Aether war box.

For someone who owns absolutely no Tzeentch minis at the moment and want to start doing some mini games, how would you rate this buy? ( I also like the overlords so that would be an extra). 
 

I kind of know that in terms of Tzeentch the contents of the box are not that great, but would it allow me to expand it in significant ways in the future? If so, how ( assuming I stay loyal to the mortal side of Tzeentch)?

Many thanks for any help you can give me starting this journey.

Tzeentch is a pretty difficult army to get into cheaply because the value boxes come with models that can bring other models that aren't included with them into your game. But ill try to give some advice on them.

Unless you ABSOLUTELY DON'T WANT the Lord of change; get the Battleforce box from around Christmas if you can find it, and a Fatemaster to support your Tzaangors(Ahriman from 40k with an Acolytes Shield and no gun is a popular Kitbash). Then you'll probably want some Chaos Spawn and either Pink Horrors or Furies to get the most out of your Magister and Gaunt Summoner respectively.

If you cant get a hold of those get either a box of Karic Acolytes or Slaves to Darkness Chaos Warriors(the older kit with 16 models). Either of those will give you the battleline you need for a 1000 point game. ID say probably get a Fatemaster and then a box of Chaos Spawn. If you build your Tzaangors with the Spears you should be able to get a list like this.

 

Magister on Disk 140

Fatemaster 120

10 Kairic Acolytes or 5 Chaos Warriors 100

10 Kairic Acolytes or 5 Chaos Warriors 100

6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Disks of Tzeentch 360

3 Screamers of Tzeentch 80

1 Chaos Spawn 50

Extra Command point 50

It should give you 1000 points on the nose and you'll have an extra chaos spawn if you kill a model with your Magisters spell. If you really want the Tzaangors with Bows, just drop the Spawn. You'll have 10 points to spare but that's not a big deal.

The Warscrolls for the Chaos Warriors are in the Slaves to Darkness Battletome or the Age of Sigmar app. If you give the the Mark of Tzeentch they can fit natively into your army and benefit from your allegiance abilities.

Also, I REALLY recommend using contrast paints on the skin for your models, otherwise it will take forever to paint them. Gulliman or Darkoath Flesh look good on the Acolytes,  Akhelian Green or Tallasar Blue looks really good on the screamers and also the Tzaangors if you do about 1-1 with Contrast medium on them.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Sinfullyvannila

[DailyMatters]

10 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

f you cant get a hold of those get either a box of Karic Acolytes or Slaves to Darkness Chaos Warriors(the older kit with 16 models). Either of those will give you the battleline you need for a 1000 point game. ID say probably get a Fatemaster and then a box of Chaos Spawn. If you build your Tzaangors with the Spears you should be able to get a list like this.

 

Magister on Disk 140

Fatemaster 120

10 Kairic Acolytes or 5 Chaos Warriors 100

10 Kairic Acolytes or 5 Chaos Warriors 100

6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Disks of Tzeentch 360

3 Screamers of Tzeentch 80

1 Chaos Spawn 50

Extra Command point 50

It should give you 1000 points on the nose and you'll have an extra chaos spawn if you kill a model with your Magisters spell. If you really want the Tzaangors with Bows, just drop the Spawn. You'll have 10 points to spare but that's not a big deal.

The Warscrolls for the Chaos Warriors are in the Slaves to Darkness Battletome or the Age of Sigmar app. If you give the the Mark of Tzeentch they can fit natively into your army and benefit from your allegiance abili

Thank you so much, this was exactly the kind of help I needed. I’ve been looking for the battleforce box but with 0 luck.

with something on the lines of what you recommended I would probably be able to get a feeling for the army ( at least the mortal side).

What I would also like to ask you, is how would you go if you had to build something from scratch ( without the ability to buy an army box). I like Laurie acolytes, so I guess I would have to buy a couple of boxes of those, some tzangoors and heroes, but I’m not sure what sinergize better with what.

Thanks!

 

 

[Sinfullyvannila]

If you want to lean hard into Kairic Acolytes you could run Pyrofane Cult as it really boosts their damage potential. You'd still probably want a Changecaster(Herald on Foot) as none of the Arcanites make good use out of the artifact you're forced to take. You can probably find one on ebay for really cheap. You can get him in the Start Collecting Darmons of Tzeentch box which is an EXCELLENT deal,(easily in the top 5 value kits from GW) unless you dont want to buy Daemons. Still probably a good buy just for Summoning stuff. But most games i just summon Screamers and you already have that. Although the 3 screamers you get in the SC Daemons box would bring you up to the 6 you can bring in with the Artifact, and their kit is a hideous value.

I think at the start you're probably better getting 1 box of Acolytes and 1 box of Chaos Warriors. Acolytes are super fragile and Tzaangors are not tough for their points so Warriors are your only option for a reasonable tough battleline. Then run a list without a Changecoven. The Changecovens are a combination of Daemon reliant and/or a blatant incentive for spending above your point limit on your army. If you're totally on board with the SC Daemons box you can skip the Warriors and go heavy into Acolytes and do Pyrofane Cult, or still do a mix of them and run Hosts Arcanum. After you collect enough stuff you can run Changecoven.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Sinfullyvannila

[Sinfullyvannila]

Also, if you can find someone to buy the Rubric Marines off of you and you convert Ahriman into a Fatemaster, the Start Collecting Thousand Sons is a really good deal.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Sinfullyvannila

[Gesundheit]

Hey Guys,

did someone else feel like face punched after the Slaanesh release? I mean we got 1 new model (wich realy isn’t that good) and 3 okayish spells. That’s it. Slaanesh got so much more love then us! 
I am over all not realy happy with the Battletome. Don’t get me wrong, it’s strong and stuff, but it missed many opportunity’s..... I feel like GW just wanted to make the fast money.🤷🏼‍♂️
where is the love for the best faction. My love is frozen until I get a new tome.🙄

Edited March 2, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Sinfullyvannila]

Im really not. We got a bunch of models a few years back, Tzaangor units, Kairic Acolyte, new horrors, the Thaumaturge and a new Lord of Change kit. Slaanesh had huge gaps in their line and now they only have one more kit than we do, as far as the GW site is concerned. The only thing we "lack" is a flavored heavy mortal unit and a tradition cavalry unit that gets bonuses on the charge.

[Marius au]

Agree, there are a couple of things I would like but Tzeentch has one of the best ranges and tomes in AOS.

[Death1942]

The new Slaanesh stuff is basically the same deal that Tzeentch got a few years back with the acolytes.  I would expect Nurgle might be next off the rank in terms of getting the mortal side fleshed out more (plus a new book).  Khorne is already pretty solid on that front.

[Gesundheit]

Hmm I might be wrong then. But it’s just my feeling about that. I miss like for example small battalions, or a terrain piece. I mean we got realy deadly spells for example, but at 18“ range. The mightiest magicians in AoS can cast two spells. A f****** wizard from city’s can do that too. I want to play a magic army, but then I miss the damageoutput of the enlighted. I don’t want to spam flamers or acolytes, but need to if I want to win games. Why are just pink horrors battleline? Why can’t I fill that with blue or brimstone? 
I know I sound like mimimimi, but I just tell you the stuff wich annoys me.😕

sorry for the whining.

[Ganigumo]

8 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Hmm I might be wrong then. But it’s just my feeling about that. I miss like for example small battalions, or a terrain piece. I mean we got realy deadly spells for example, but at 18“ range. The mightiest magicians in AoS can cast two spells. A f****** wizard from city’s can do that too. I want to play a magic army, but then I miss the damageoutput of the enlighted. I don’t want to spam flamers or acolytes, but need to if I want to win games. Why are just pink horrors battleline? Why can’t I fill that with blue or brimstone? 
I know I sound like mimimimi, but I just tell you the stuff wich annoys me.😕

sorry for the whining.

I don't mind not having a terrain piece at all, the gifts of worship are easily one of my favorite allegiance abilities of all time, but the mortal half of this book was definitely given the shaft. Tzaangors don't have a proper subfaction, Kairics are overcosted because they dabble in a lot of different areas but don't have a proper role they perform well, the mortal battalions are mostly weak, and for some reason Tzeentch mortals don't get access to any artifacts to improve their casting, instead they're largely melee oriented. 
Its not even so much a power issue, I'm not quite sure where Tzeentch arcanites sit exactly since they're overshadowed by daemons, but my guess would be low-mid to mid-tier, but the combination of high cost units, expensive/weak battalions, and wierd subfactions makes listbuilding frustrating.
 

Honestly I think most of this could be resolved with minor adjustments

• Give Kairics a horde discount, and possibly a 10 point drop on top. I'm not always a fan of horde discounts, especially on shooting units, but part of the cost of kairics is their spellcasting, which doesn't improve in bigger units. something like 100/260, or 90/260. 
• change the base Tzaangor unit size to 5, instead of 10. They're pointed and statted similarly to chaos warriors/'ardboys/liberators but need their horde bonus (9+ models) in order to deal damage. The other option would be a point decrease but then they'll get a little too efficient per point.
• Give us a proper Tzaangor subfaction that enhances them somehow and makes them feel like a part of the army, even if its just better beak attacks.
• Rewrite Cult of the Transient form and alter-kin coven to not be terrible. One of the coolest narrative subfactions in the entire game imo (not just this book) but the rules basically amount to kairic acolytes can fight when they die. (not necessary, but I really want this, I'll still never understand how THIS subfaction somehow ended up with both the worst command trait and artifact out of the entire book)
• Tzaangor Enlightened on foot as a battleline option with a Tzaangor General. This would give us a cool new battleline option, and instantly improve a few of the arcanite battalions by letting them fulfill our battleline requirements. You don't see them often either and this would help get them on the table
• slight cost reduction on Tzaangor coven, and if we're making adjustments why doesn't this include a Tzaangor shaman?

 

When it comes down to building arcanite lists you end up leaning hard into kairics for witchfyre/pyrofane cult shooting, or hard into MSU kairics + wizard spam for Guild of Summoners, both of which make it hard to fit other things into lists.

[Sinfullyvannila]

I'm pretty sure that GW is getting rid of hoard discounts across the board.

Also Kairic Acolytes are hyper specialized. They are antimagic bartleline. They deny or punish spellcasting with a ridiculously massive footprint. Which is really useful as long as your opponent is running at least one wizard since we need to use 2 DD to unbind now. Part of the reason they are costed oddly is that Horrors give us options for hyper efficient wound count. They also get some of their cost back through FP generation. If they even contribute 1 FP point to summoning something that's nearly an 8 point discount minimum.

Mini Horrors arent battleline because every single list would include two MSU of blues. Also we'd have an insane amount of battline troups. We already have 6 options for Battleline.

I definitely think that Tzaangors need work. They either need a discount, to get their extra attack rule reworked or giving their Greatblades 2" reach. They are so easy to become points ineffective its absurd. 180 points is obscene especially now that Marauders are so good.

[Ganigumo]

Yeah GW does seem to be getting rid of horde discounts, across the board, but they get diminishing returns on investment in a way many units don't because their casting/dispelling doesn't get any better with more bodies. The first 9 Kairics are actually more valuable than any extras.

If the specialization of kairics is antimagic it has no place in the army. We generally have more unbinds than we know what to do with, get rewarded if our opponent casts spells, and have better dispel/unbind options than a +1. Maybe a unit like this, at this cost, would be useful in an army with weaker antimagic in general, but in Tzeentch the antimagic is valued less because we have easy access to it anyway. I don't think they're horribly overcosted, but generally AOS prefers specialized units to generalist ones, and in this book they feel like a generalist option.

I've made Tzaangors work, but it does take a lot. Grashrak's spell + Arcane Suggestion saw them cut down a mega gargant in a single round. I've been running a unit of 20 in my games with some good results, but it makes listbuilding very difficult and they definitely need proper support. They're currently 90 points for 5, which is the same as chaos warriors, but they hit harder with less bulk (although Chaos warriors also aren't great). I wouldn't hate a point drop on them, but I'd be happier if I could just take them in units of 15, since we'd still need to bring them in 20s.

[Sinfullyvannila]

44 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Yeah GW does seem to be getting rid of horde discounts, across the board, but they get diminishing returns on investment in a way many units don't because their casting/dispelling doesn't get any better with more bodies. The first 9 Kairics are actually more valuable than any extras.

If the specialization of kairics is antimagic it has no place in the army. We generally have more unbinds than we know what to do with, get rewarded if our opponent casts spells, and have better dispel/unbind options than a +1. Maybe a unit like this, at this cost, would be useful in an army with weaker antimagic in general, but in Tzeentch the antimagic is valued less because we have easy access to it anyway. I don't think they're horribly overcosted, but generally AOS prefers specialized units to generalist ones, and in this book they feel like a generalist option.

I've made Tzaangors work, but it does take a lot. Grashrak's spell + Arcane Suggestion saw them cut down a mega gargant in a single round. I've been running a unit of 20 in my games with some good results, but it makes listbuilding very difficult and they definitely need proper support. They're currently 90 points for 5, which is the same as chaos warriors, but they hit harder with less bulk (although Chaos warriors also aren't great). I wouldn't hate a point drop on them, but I'd be happier if I could just take them in units of 15, since we'd still need to bring them in 20s.

One of them is LoC which is probably not worth his points if you aren't going Daemon heavy. Another is Kairos who can't get put into a battalion. The third is Curseling who can't be put into a battalion and also has a much lower footprint. All of them are less durable point-for-point than Karics. And we actually know PRECISELY what to do with those specific unbinds; that is to use DDs to steal or reflect spells when strategically valuable. We get a lot fewer unbinds in an Arcanite list, maybe 6, all on like the most fragile heroes point for point, in a meta where there is absolutely no problem whatsoever to melt them with ranged attack.

Kairics get to punish successful casts. Which is significant against the armies which we are weakest against, armies which bully our casting. Those are also the strongest armies right now. Pink Horrors are CLEARLY our all purpose unit; they just also happen to be so absurdly durable they are so exceptionally good that they appear not to be.

Even with any of those options I think one or two MSU of Kairics has value if you think youre going up against Teclis; you make your opponents decision on how many casts to give him much harder. With only 16 wounds and no ward save,  he simply can't afford to the MWS they threaten him with.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Sinfullyvannila

[Ganigumo]

22 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

One of them is LoC which is probably not worth his points if you aren't going Daemon heavy. Another is Kairos who can't get put into a battalion. The third is Curseling who can't be put into a battalion and also has a much lower footprint. All of them are less durable point-for-point than Karics. And we actually know PRECISELY what to do with those specific unbinds; that is to use DDs to steal or reflect spells when strategically valuable. We get a lot fewer unbinds in an Arcanite list, maybe 6, all on like the most fragile heroes point for point, in a meta where there is absolutely no problem whatsoever to melt them with ranged attack.

Kairics get to punish successful casts. Which is significant against the armies which we are weakest against, armies which bully our casting. Those are also the strongest armies right now. Pink Horrors are CLEARLY our all purpose unit; they just also happen to be so absurdly durable they are so exceptionally good that they appear not to be.

Even with any of those options I think one or two MSU of Kairics has value if you think youre going up against Teclis; you make your opponents decision on how many casts to give him much harder. With only 16 wounds and no ward save,  he simply can't afford to the MWS they threaten him with.

Pink Horrors are DEFINITELY NOT an all purpose unit. They're an anvil. One of the hardest in the game by nature of their ridiculous point-to-wound ratio. The entire point of the unit is the durability. The reason they're broken is because restoring 1 slain model (by their banner ON THEIR WARSCROLL, or Lifeswarm) restores 5 wounds. 

The unit could do 0 damage and still be useful, since their purpose is to gum up the board, sit on objectives, and prevent your opponent from reaching your fragile damage pieces like the LoC or flamers.

 

[Sinfullyvannila]

Ok, I guess I have no idea of what your concept of a general purpose unit is. Do you have an example for me? If having an asset like durability disqualifies it, they don't sound useful at all to me.

Im judging Horrors as an aggregate of how they perform throughout AoS' history. Before the most recent incarnation of them they could not anvil because their Splits formed a distinct unit. You could use them fpr just about anything based on what spells you could give them.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Sinfullyvannila

[Ganigumo]

56 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Ok, I guess I have no idea of what your concept of a general purpose unit is. Do you have an example for me? If having an asset like durability disqualifies it, they don't sound useful at all to me.

Im judging Horrors as an aggregate of how they perform throughout AoS' history. Before the most recent incarnation of them they could not anvil because their Splits formed a distinct unit. You could use them fpr just about anything based on what spells you could give them.

A generalist unit is one that is designed/intended to attempt to fill multiple roles and/or play in many different phases at the same time. Units like  Kairic Acolytes,  blissbarb seekers, Skyfires, and spider riders all fit into this. Being durable doesn't disqualify a unit from being a generalist, an argument could be made that Hearthguard berzerkers count since they're both a hammer and an anvil.

Its got to do mostly with how the "power budget" of a unit is spent. Specialist units tend to invest most of their power into a single purpose (i.e Maw Krushas & melee damage, or Kroak & magic, or flamers & shooting damage) while generalist units split their budget across multiple purposes (Chaos warriors split their cost across bulk and damage, Skyfires across melee & ranged damage). Kairic Acolytes are spending their budget across shooting and magic while also being statted as though they should be cheap bodies. Sometimes these units can work well, but they often end up overcosted.

Getting into a bit of the WHY in white dwarf 457 Jervis Johnson wrote an article on how warscrolls are pointed (at least initially) and the way GW does it is they point each "feature" of the warscroll individually, then add it up. so basically they assign a point value to each of the base statistics and keywords  (i.e a 6+ save is worth X points, a 5+ is worth 2X, and a 4+ save is worth 3X , being a hero costs more than not being a hero, being a wizard costs extra points) Then they assign a point value to each of the abilities on the warscroll, and then they add it all up, then also add points based on the power of the army's allegiance abilities. There a bit more nuance than I'm getting into here, but the issue is that they point the abilities in a bit of a vacuum, so when a unit is investing in multiple areas they don't really get a discount for being mediocre at any of them. There's also no discount based on whether or not the unit has a role or purpose in its own army, or how well the abilities on the warscroll work together. Anvil of apotheosis gave us some extra insight on what this looked like for heroes as well, and it was quite easy to create some broken stuff in it, typically either by taking the absolute bare minimum (grot wizards being like ~50 points or something) or pushing one aspect of the hero really hard and ignoring the rest.

The previous warscroll would definitely fit the ticket of a generalist unit, but the new warscroll, between a combination of the casting changes and pointing changes, ensures their only real role is as an anvil thanks to their points-per-wound. The new horrors are way too inefficient at casting/dispelling/damage for them to even be a consideration for those roles, all of their budget is pumped into their wounds.

[Gesundheit]

7 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Pink Horrors are DEFINITELY NOT an all purpose unit. They're an anvil. One of the hardest in the game by nature of their ridiculous point-to-wound ratio. The entire point of the unit is the durability. The reason they're broken is because restoring 1 slain model (by their banner ON THEIR WARSCROLL, or Lifeswarm) restores 5 wounds. 

The unit could do 0 damage and still be useful, since their purpose is to gum up the board, sit on objectives, and prevent your opponent from reaching your fragile damage pieces like the LoC or flamers.

 

I know horrors are realy durable, but if I want to use them as battleline i lose 660P with no damage(!) and my list is an autobuild after that. I got nearly 10k points of Tzeentch and I just play a few of these models. Flamers are realy strong and Deal a lot of damage, but I don’t want to spam them to deal damage! I mean you guys a really right in many of your points, but I hoped for much more. Why no tzaangor general on foot? I don’t want to mix army’s.... 

Like I said I won’t be happy, but that’s how it is.😅 I am thankful that some of you are on my side.🤷🏼‍♂️
But I can understand anyone who likes the battletome😊👍

 

[Kasper]

On 3/2/2021 at 9:41 AM, Gesundheit said:

Hey Guys,

did someone else feel like face punched after the Slaanesh release? I mean we got 1 new model (wich realy isn’t that good) and 3 okayish spells. That’s it. Slaanesh got so much more love then us! 
I am over all not realy happy with the Battletome. Don’t get me wrong, it’s strong and stuff, but it missed many opportunity’s..... I feel like GW just wanted to make the fast money.🤷🏼‍♂️
where is the love for the best faction. My love is frozen until I get a new tome.🙄

From my experience there are really only 4 ways of playing Tzeentch atm. 

1) Flamer spam with Changehost where you just shoot your opponent off the table, esp. with a double tun

2) Archaon with Kairos etc. Max buffs on Archaon and send him forward with a couple of cheeky plays, especially if you get a Bray-Shaman. 

3) Simply amass Horrors in the Multitudinous Host batallion. I think this has a lot of unexplored potential, but it is simply super time consuming with constantly spawning new Horrors between Multitudinous Host, Lifeswarm, 1 DD on battleshock tests, nuking your own stuff with Endless Spells etc. The playstyle generally seems rather dull and I think it is possibly the worst game your opponent will ever have. Likely why it isnt played. 

4) "Control" Tzeentch with Kairos, Manticore, Be'lakor etc. You dont have "a lot" of damage (Winds of Chaos on 40 Skinks though..) but rather rely on cute plays to win.

 

Anything else is really just lackluster tbh. At the end of the day we are a magic-focused alligiance, so maybe its "ok" that there arent a ton of viable melee builds around. It is unfortunate though, because I really like the look of Tzaangors and Acolytes etc.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Kasper