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AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion


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4 hours ago, Rockman2k said:

Hallo all, I’d like to start a Tzeentch force of 1000pts, but I struggle to create a list to determine which units to paint. The idea I’ve come up with:

Gaunt Summoner

Ogroid Thaumaturge 

Pink horrors (10)

Pink horrors (10)

Screamers (3)

Screamers (3)

Should manage to cast a lot, grab and hold objectives quite well. Do you guys have any additional ideas? Thanks in advance! 

Whom do you play against? Personally the Ogroid isn't my favorite pick as he's not as resilient as (at least I) always think. Depending on which subfaction you play, you might want to aim for something else than Screamers (they are decent summons though). The heavy hitters in my recent games have been Enlightened and Flamers. Screamers are good for summoning unless you just wanna go for a Guild of Summoners build with a LoC  instead.

Personally I think the Blue Scribes are usually one of the best heroes you can take and would take them rather than the Ogroid. I'd probably only go for 10 Horrors (you get 5 free ones with the Gaunt), drop the screamers but use them for summoning and then try to squeeze in Enlightened and Flamers (especially if you run the right subfaction).

Also and endless spell or two can make a big difference. Just some ideas for the future maybe. :)

 

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Hey guys! I've delved into the world of 3D printing and got some sweet STL files from Titanforge! I'll attach the pic. I've been wondering what army I could represent with those minis and I am leaning towards Tzeentch. The turban warriors could be Kairic Acolytes and the Djinn (along with other Djinn models for variety) could be Tzaangors. 

Question is: Does a mostly mortal DoT army work? Any recommendations on a 2K list? I don't want to take any Horrors apart from summoning. Another question: Can I just take StD units with mark of Tzeentch without breaking the alliance?

2e2c9c4b-2871-4b75-ad58-2eebc8cec494.jpg

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On 12/26/2020 at 1:22 PM, Rockman2k said:

Hallo all, I’d like to start a Tzeentch force of 1000pts, but I struggle to create a list to determine which units to paint. The idea I’ve come up with:

Gaunt Summoner

Ogroid Thaumaturge 

Pink horrors (10)

Pink horrors (10)

Screamers (3)

Screamers (3)

Should manage to cast a lot, grab and hold objectives quite well. Do you guys have any additional ideas? Thanks in advance! 

I'd take host arcanum so you have 160 spare points for 1 more caster or turning the GS into Kairos

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So, as we stand on the threshold of the new year and the impending Slaanesh second wave release - what would people want or hope to see in a purely hypothetical Tzeentch second wave?

Obviously it's unlikely we'd see one any time soon - we're better set for mortals than Slaanesh were or Nurgle are, and there's lots of other armies in dire need of expansion first - but I'm absolutely champing at the bit for an expansion of the mortal ranks.

Imagining a similar scheme to Slaanesh, I guess we'd see a special character, dual-kit chaos warrior equivalent, and 1-2 more kits plus characters.

I'm craving Tzeentch-flavoured warrior sculpts and warscrolls; I'd also love to see Aekold Helbrass come back, or a new inheritor of his power. The gift of life was really interesting and different while helping show the weird scope of Chaos, and it'd be a great excuse to expand Tzeentch-related plots into the Realms of Life and/or Death.

I'd also want to see awful, majestic arcane war engines. I keep thinking of the Winged Terror and Bale Towers from old Man O'War...

Edited by Acrozatarim
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A heavy infantry option like the Myrmidesh is a must, preferably one that is a wizard unit in the vein of Lumineth Vanari. Add in some heavy and light cavalry options and I'd say we're pretty set. Unlike Slaanesh, Tzeentch already has a good amount of mortal hero options, it mostly just needs some extra units (and some updates to old sculpts, i.e. the Fatemaster.) 

Edited by Jaskier
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This is easy IMO.

Chosen Sorcerer-Warriors, heavily armored but not mutated - complete with their own spell. If Lumineth can do it, so should we - except we're not puny Aelfs.  Think of the Exalted Sorcerers from the Thousand Sons mixed with Varanguard. And bird shoulderpads like in Adrian Smith's art or on the Gaunt Summoner.

Forsaken : Remade - (heavily?) mutated warriors. There's so much talk about in the background and yet we never really got much in terms of mutated warriors. 

Both of those represent one of the aspects of Tzeentch that is currently missing, both from an aesthetic POV as well as gameplay-wise.

Aekold was one of the first minis I bought (more than 20 years ago), I'd gladly welcome him back (did you know the sculpt was supposed to be a dark elf?) but personally if we resurrect any, then give me Egrimm Van Horstmann. Mainly because he rode Baudros and a Chaos dragon would be amazing. And I kinda miss dragons in AoS.

A plastic Curseling and Fatemaster would also be good. Might just be me but the Curseling should just be an update - I love the look of it and wouldn't need a redesign.

What I don't want: More chicken-legged nerds. Too much Egyptian influence in the design (a bit is totally fine). That's a Thousand Sons thing and works really well there, but it's not a general Tzeentch thing. Tzeentch is tall bunny ears (like the Gaunt Summoner or the artwork... once again, let's look at Adrian Smith's stellar work) or horns.

"More Mysterio, less Bird-Person for mortals." That's my motto for it.

Edited by MitGas
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I definitely want screamer surfers, discs are cool, but having a unit of kairics/warriors surfing on screamers would be cool.

If there's another battletome coming as well I'd love to see each of our subfactions get a spell that only they know.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey; there's a local tournament coming up that I'm not competing in. My friends are asking me to help them prep for it. Could one of you write an Eternal Conflagration Changehost list? Since I won't be competing and won't be playing for fun(not actually looking forward to it lol) I would rather the list be written by someone else.

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So an incredible lame and boring round of FAQs imo. 

image.png.d2e4087720ec1d5f2f8e2b0b13f00688.png

So the Changecaster can effectively get to cast 1) His warscroll spell, 2) Lore spell, 3) Mystic Shield, 4) Arcane Bolt, 5) Endless Spell and 6) Realm spell if you somehow managed to score five 9+ casts in a row. Technically you could cast 7 spells if you have the Tome of Eyes and have him cast it. Not sure how massive this is or if you will really feel it in any of your games. I was personally bringing Be'lakor, so he was already soaking up a "generic" spell. It is a neat little buff though for the guy. 

 

 

The Mastery of Magic change is kinda meh. It means you will rarely get the +1 casting agenda off, since it requires an unmodified 9+. How we played it around here in my club was that changing a dice wasnt considered a modifier, so the cast after Mastery of Magic's effect would result in an unmodified casting roll. This is no longer the case. Between rerolls and using 2 DDs to "secure" a Gift of Change or whatever, you can probably still get it off in turn 1 or 2, just not as consistent. 

This also affects Tome of Eyes (Tzeentch Endless spell) that some people were starting to play around with to great effect - You get to reroll casting rolls for the caster, but you got an auto successful cast that couldnt be unbound if you got an unmodified roll of a 2 or a 12. If you used the Tome specifically for this vs Kroak/Teclis, it is now much worse, since you cant simply flip a dice to get the result of 2 or 12, sicne it will be considered a modified roll. If you werent a fan of getting the D3 MWs and simply used the spell for getting rerolls on your single caster/Parchment Curse, then I guess it is somewhat a buff.   

On the flipside it means Hexgorger Skulls is now much less dangerous. They require you to roll an unmodified 8. Now you can flip a lower dice to match your 4 and get a modified 8, hence not triggering this effect, and if you have a +1 from LoC or from the agenda, you will succeed the 9+ casts.

 

Not really sure what else the FAQ impacts for us?

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35 minutes ago, Ratling said:

I want to run a 6 unit of either skyfires or enlightened in my mortals army. 

On paper skyfires are kinda expensive for their 4+3+ shooting. Do I miss something? 

Does anybody have any suggestions?

Tzaangor Shaman gives them a passive +1 to hit and Fatemaster pushes out a reroll all hits aura with his command ability. You can also mop up units pretty well in melee.

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54 minutes ago, Ratling said:

I want to run a 6 unit of either skyfires or enlightened in my mortals army. 

On paper skyfires are kinda expensive for their 4+3+ shooting. Do I miss something? 

Does anybody have any suggestions?

Skyfires aren't a ranged unit. They're a melee unit with ranged utility.

Their shooting attacks do work, but not 67 points per model work, so you need to take advantage of their melee strength, which is deceptively good.

They reroll all hit and wound rolls if they fight first, and with their speed it isn't hard to get charges off with them.

6 skyfires fighting first will put out 9-18 damage most of the time in melee, although it can be pretty swingy with the d3 damage and attacks.

6 enlightened put out 9-19 without buffs, or 12-22 with a nearby shaman. (Their damage skyrockets to 25-37 if they get their rerolls but it triggers on fighting after something else nearby has already fought, and enlightened aren't exactly durable).

Hopefully this puts it into perspective (although I agree that they could probably afford to come down a little)

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I forgot to put it in earlier but the thing your Skyfires bring to the table is putting pressure on your opponent. As long as you have a 6 on your DDs they have to worry about you throwing D3 mortals on their heroes and they never know when you're gonna hit a 6 on your hit rolls. I'll bring a unit of 3 but they rarely make their points back, they're in my list to try to get my opponent to make mistakes and to opportunistically grab empty objectives or flip ones that are close. They are never worth bringing if you're doing Pyrofane cult as either a Changecaster or Lord of Change will have the same ability mortal wounds on 6s but more efficiently.

Elightened are great units if you can buff 6 of them with -2 to be hit. Otherwise if you position them very carefully you can put them behind some 25mill units like Horrors or Marauders and massively punish a charge by piling into units with only 1 inch range. They'll kill basically anything except Morathi or big blobs of Horrors or Grots. Flamers will do better the better your opponents are; but my 6 man Enlightened are infamous at my FLGS.

Edited by Sinfullyvannila
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Good evening fellow Disciples!

I am right now in the process of painting up a nice little Tzeentch Arcanites army and want to order the last things I need to complete 2000 points. Now I am in trouble as I do not know what exactly I want to play, so I would like to ask you for suggestions. Below you can find two different lists, one being a Pyrofane Cult list, the other one being Cult of the Transient Form. I am well aware that both are not highly competitive lists, but this si also not my goal, I just want to play a cool looking army that is not completely useless in wars across the Mortal Realms. ;)

I would really appreciate suggestions for optimization (unit choices, artifacts, spells etc.) and am happy about any answer I get! :)

So here they are:

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Pyrofane Cult

Leaders
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Magister on Disc of Tzeentch (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Shrouded in Unnatural Flame
- Artefact: Chainfire Amulet
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
The Changeling (140)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- Artefact: Aspect of Tzeentch
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation

Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
30 x Kairic Acolytes (300)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)

Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)

Battalions
Witchfyre Coven (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Tome of Eyes (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110

 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Cult of the Transient Form

Leaders
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Magister on Disc of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
The Changeling (140)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
- General
- Command Trait: Defiant in their Pursuit
- Artefact: Chaotica Amulet
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate

Battleline
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)

Units
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)

Battalions
Alter-kin Coven (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Tome of Eyes (40)

 

Any comment is appreciated!

Edited by Craze
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Hey guys!
I'm going to participate in a small local tournament with 1k points so I made a list. Would you guys review it and maybe suggest if I missed something.
I also have pinks and horrors in general. Have most of the hero choices and common endless spells.
The idea is taking advantage of high movement of all units and summoned screamers to retake points from enemies and then support it with some shooting. Also fatemaster is a great hero to buff all the units in this roster.

Thanks in advance! 

TzeentchHosts1k.pdf

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New to Tzeentch, putting together a  hero-heavy list, leaning towards Guild of Summoners. I'd like some cool hard hitting elites and i'm curious if people think there is any place for Varanguard (sans Archaon) in Tzeentch?

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On 1/29/2021 at 9:13 AM, Craze said:
Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Pyrofane Cult

Leaders
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Magister on Disc of Tzeentch (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Shrouded in Unnatural Flame
- Artefact: Chainfire Amulet
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
The Changeling (140)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- Artefact: Aspect of Tzeentch
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation

Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
30 x Kairic Acolytes (300)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)

Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)

Battalions
Witchfyre Coven (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Tome of Eyes (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110

I like this one. Good to see people changing it up more. I have something similar for Pyrofane/Witchfyre. I didnt like the idea of being forced to take Enlightened though so i dropped them down to the minimum in favor of putting the points in other places. 

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6 hours ago, Malakithe said:

I like this one. Good to see people changing it up more. I have something similar for Pyrofane/Witchfyre. I didnt like the idea of being forced to take Enlightened though so i dropped them down to the minimum in favor of putting the points in other places. 

 

Thanks for your reply! :)

The idea behind the 6 Enlightened and the Shaman is, to have a highly mobile hammer that can reach almost any place of the board within one turn  to threaten objectices, attack support pieces or gunlines. With the rest of the army I would try to build a castle near the center of the board, backed up with summoned  Horrors and/or Flamers.

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Guild of Summoners
LEADERS
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
Fatemaster (120)
Magister (100)
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)
The Blue Scribes (120)
UNITS
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Tzaangors (180)
1 x Burning Chariots of Tzeentch (150)
1 x Burning Chariots of Tzeentch (150)
3 x Varanguard (280)
TOTAL: 1980/2000 WOUNDS: 108

So this is my first Tzeentch list. Some of the choices are very much thematic/modelling based. I want to make an ocean-themed Tzeentch army so am planning to use a Leviadon in place of the manticore, put the Varanguard on the backs of sea creatures, use little boats with cannons firing living flame as burning chariots, etc. 

However I am also interested in building a semi-competitive army and hoping this list will let me bring the LoC in early and deal a lot of damage by magic whilst having at least some back line, decent objective-takers that can do damage at range and a little melee combo that can take on isolated units efffectively.

I do however feel like there's a shortage of bodies here that the gaunt summoner isn't going to be able to make up and that 270 points probably could be spent more effectively than 3 varanguard. 

Appeeciate any thoughts people might have. 

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On 2/2/2021 at 7:33 AM, Orsino said:

Guild of Summoners
LEADERS
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
Fatemaster (120)
Magister (100)
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)
The Blue Scribes (120)
UNITS
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Tzaangors (180)
1 x Burning Chariots of Tzeentch (150)
1 x Burning Chariots of Tzeentch (150)
3 x Varanguard (280)
TOTAL: 1980/2000 WOUNDS: 108

So this is my first Tzeentch list. Some of the choices are very much thematic/modelling based. I want to make an ocean-themed Tzeentch army so am planning to use a Leviadon in place of the manticore, put the Varanguard on the backs of sea creatures, use little boats with cannons firing living flame as burning chariots, etc. 

However I am also interested in building a semi-competitive army and hoping this list will let me bring the LoC in early and deal a lot of damage by magic whilst having at least some back line, decent objective-takers that can do damage at range and a little melee combo that can take on isolated units efffectively.

I do however feel like there's a shortage of bodies here that the gaunt summoner isn't going to be able to make up and that 270 points probably could be spent more effectively than 3 varanguard. 

Appeeciate any thoughts people might have. 

I've run Varanguard in a Tzeentch list before and honestly they're not great. I wanted a combat punch but they're super pricey and anti-synergistic with a pure Tzeentch list. The Sorc Lord also, as far as I know, doesn't get access to the lores of Tzeentch (though I could be wrong on this). 

I'd look at including either Skyfires or Enlightened and a Shaman to back them up. Skyfires are, as mentioned upthread, deceptively great in combat (probably better than Enlightened because their re-rolls trigger when they strike first, which is easily dictated given their speed). You're also accumulating more fate points if you include another wizard. 

Edited by LeonBox
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Skyfires are most certainly not going to outfight enlightened even if they benefit from the rerolls and the Enlightened do not.

They are not good melee units for their points. Its simply that you have to get them into melee to cut down on their inefficiency if you plan on using them as a damage piece instead of a utility piece.

Edited by Sinfullyvannila
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On 2/7/2021 at 6:44 AM, LeonBox said:

I've run Varanguard in a Tzeentch list before and honestly they're not great. I wanted a combat punch but they're super pricey and anti-synergistic with a pure Tzeentch list. The Sorc Lord also, as far as I know, doesn't get access to the lores of Tzeentch (though I could be wrong on this). 

I'd look at including either Skyfires or Enlightened and a Shaman to back them up. Skyfires are, as mentioned upthread, deceptively great in combat (probably better than Enlightened because their re-rolls trigger when they strike first, which is easily dictated given their speed). You're also accumulating more fate points if you include another wizard. 

Varanguard might be a bit more interesting with the agenda to give them +1 attack per weapon profile. The charge should be somewhat easy for them to pull off.  I guess either Fellspears or daemonforged weapons are actually quite nice with another attack (and activating them a second time in that turn).... that said, Enlightened can get the same buff and they're a better pick in general like you say... 🤔

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2 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Skyfires are most certainly not going to outfight enlightened even if they benefit from the rerolls and the Enlightened do not.

They are not good melee units for their points. Its simply that you have to get them into melee to cut down on their inefficiency if you plan on using them as a damage piece instead of a utility piece.

 

On 1/26/2021 at 5:23 PM, Ganigumo said:

6 skyfires fighting first will put out 9-18 damage most of the time in melee, although it can be pretty swingy with the d3 damage and attacks.

6 enlightened put out 9-19 without buffs, or 12-22 with a nearby shaman. (Their damage skyrockets to 25-37 if they get their rerolls)

6 skyfires shooting should do around 2-6 damage, or 3-7 with a shaman nearby.

If the skyfires shoot their target first, and get rerolls you can expect slightly higher total damage than enlightened with similar buffs.

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On 2/7/2021 at 6:44 AM, LeonBox said:

The Sorc Lord also, as far as I know, doesn't get access to the lores of Tzeentch (though I could be wrong on this). 

You can give him the mark of Tzeentch and hence he will be a part of the Tzeentch alligiance - This means he get access to Lore of Fate (mortal). Rare you would ever cast something else than his warscroll spell though. 

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