AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[simakover]

How good fatemaster is? Im try to make roster, but cant fit that im want in one list. He is not get locus of sorcery, not share it with other units. Flamers mostly hit on 2+. Also he spend a CP

 

 

[GeneralZero]

15 minutes ago, simakover said:

How good fatemaster is?

The mini is awful: I made mine with  arihman, superb ad majestic enough to be a leader. In game, it seems that the fatemaster fits better with mortals/tzaangors lists.

[simakover]

Yeah, im ise my ahriman too. Im looking at fatemaster in flamer changehost lists

[Forrix]

49 minutes ago, simakover said:

How good fatemaster is? Im try to make roster, but cant fit that im want in one list. He is not get locus of sorcery, not share it with other units. Flamers mostly hit on 2+. Also he spend a CP

 

 

I haven't ran him yet since I hate the model and haven't built a proxy but I think he's great for turning Flamers into character snipers. Even with an Exalted flamer you're hitting characters on a 4+ base due to look out sir. Being able to reroll that is a significant bonus. It makes a unit of 3 flamers able to very reliably kill a 5 wound 4+ save hero.

[simakover]

28 minutes ago, Forrix said:

I haven't ran him yet since I hate the model and haven't built a proxy but I think he's great for turning Flamers into character snipers. Even with an Exalted flamer you're hitting characters on a 4+ base due to look out sir. Being able to reroll that is a significant bonus. It makes a unit of 3 flamers able to very reliably kill a 5 wound 4+ save hero.

Ok, im try to fit 12 flamer list with fatemaster and geminids, but can make a cut. Can you help me?

[Sumanye]

I'm personally not a fan of the ahriman fate master proxy.  He's too big for a 32mm base and it just looks janky.  Also, Ahriman is so iconic in 40k, it's also a little immersion breaking imo.  If you feel the same, here is what I did.  I made my fate master with a chaos sorcerer lord body, new chaos warrior helmet, Enlightened Aviarch spear, disc made from extra chariot parts, and a shield from a  tzaangor.  

[Sumanye]

On 3/5/2020 at 3:00 AM, Maserdom said:

I'll jump into the thread for a few questions!

Coming from 40k and its (now more than ever) deranged situation with rules bloat and power creep off the charts, I have started playing AoS in search of a breath of fresh air.

I willfully chose a mid tier army (Gloomspite Gitz, squigs-only variant) in order to play at 1000-1500 points max and enjoy the game once again, but the 1000 points variant of the list has already been painted and the subsequent purchases laid out. Avoiding boredom is a priority and, since AoS'gorgeous models make it much easier (for me, at lòeast) to speed paint miniatures, I'd like to start a second army.

As you may imagine, my eyes instantly fell on the Disciples of Tzeentch, especially since I already wanted to build a Thousand Sons army but never got around to.

 

From what I gathered, the DoT are a mid-high tier army with the potential of being high tier plus, which would be useful for the more... competitive matches at my LGS. I absolutely love the idea of spamming magic and summoning little guys around, but the Guild of Summoners coven seems to be the overpowered choice here, especially in 1000 points games (where a Lord of Change turn two is probably turbo-broken and only suitable for small tournaments).

Could you please, A) rate the following Guild of Summoners list and B) suggest a less OP list with the Pyrofane Cult?

I'd rather get the Kairic Acolytes than the Tzaangors since my squigs are enough for a melee playstyle, while the acolytes defending the mages and throwing fireballs require a different strategy. Since the Acolytes will be already there, and the Pyrofane is tied to them (and it looks like a mid-tier choice, since Guild of SUmmoners and Chagehost are the obvious cheesy choices), I would be saving quite a bit of money!

Guild of Summoners List:

  Reveal hidden contents

• Gaunt Summoner
• The Blue Scribes
• Curseling
• 10x Kairic Acolytes
• 10x  Kairic Acolytes
• 10x Kairic Acolytes
• 10x Kairic Acolytes

Total: 920/1000 and 80 available points for endless spells. Maybe I could leave out a group of acolytes (who are just there to maximize spell casts) and throw in an Ogroid Thaumaturge to defend my mages against charges, but I 'm not sure if 30 meat shields would be enough).

The plan is to wait in my starting zone for the first turn (which I'll always pass), cast as much as possible hoping for a first turn Lord of Change, and then run to the objectives on turn 2 once the enemy has been softened with fireballs.

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated! The local shop has declared a glorious -25% sale, so my wallet is ready to splurge on a few boxes while it lasts!

I don't think this list is anywhere near as OP as you think it is and I wouldn't worry about playing it in a casual setting.  Your chance of getting a LoC turn 1 with only 9 casts is far from guaranteed and if you wait to summon turn 2, you won't be casting with the LoC until turn 3.  At that point, your free LoC isn't really that big of a deal anymore.  Keep in mind, acolytes are only wizards when they have 9+ models.  An opponent could very easily disable 4 of your spell casts per turn with minimal effort.  It's a fun list, and I'd only recommend to swap the cursling for changeling or change caster or really any other wizard.  Fun list, but not OP.  I say play it to your heart's content.

[simakover]

Spoiler

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
Fatemaster (120)
Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (130)
The Blue Scribes (120)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Suffocating Gravetide (20)

im try to fit Fatemaster, 2 mobile heroes for Locus and casting endlesses, Geminid and 9 flames(want 12, but cant fit without dropping hero)

that do you think?

[Forrix]

3 minutes ago, simakover said:

  Hide contents

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
Fatemaster (120)
Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (130)
The Blue Scribes (120)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Suffocating Gravetide (20)

im try to fit Fatemaster, 2 mobile heroes for Locus and casting endlesses, Geminid and 9 flames(want 12, but cant fit without dropping hero)

that do you think?

Looks pretty good overall. I wouldn't worry about more flamers. You want board presence. I'm sure there's ways to tweak it more (Gaunt Summoners are always amazing if there's a way to squeeze one in somehow) but I'd just play a couple games with that then take it from there.

[simakover]

1 minute ago, Forrix said:

Looks pretty good overall. I wouldn't worry about more flamers. You want board presence. I'm sure there's ways to tweak it more (Gaunt Summoners are always amazing if there's a way to squeeze one in somehow) but I'd just play a couple games with that then take it from there.

Tourney next weekend, and im haven't time to test(

[Plokoone]

28 minutes ago, Sumanye said:

I'm personally not a fan of the ahriman fate master proxy.  He's too big for a 32mm base and it just looks janky.

The Fatemaster's recommended base size is 60mm, though.

[simakover]

33 minutes ago, Forrix said:

Looks pretty good overall. I wouldn't worry about more flamers. You want board presence. I'm sure there's ways to tweak it more (Gaunt Summoners are always amazing if there's a way to squeeze one in somehow) but I'd just play a couple games with that then take it from there.

Also im havent gaunt on disk. Without its too slow

[Sumanye]

43 minutes ago, Plokoone said:

The Fatemaster's recommended base size is 60mm, though.

Oh yeah, that is a good catch.  Not sure why I thought it was 32mm.  Well, I guess I need to rebase mine!

[Fiddybucks]

4 hours ago, Sumanye said:

Oh yeah, that is a good catch.  Not sure why I thought it was 32mm.  Well, I guess I need to rebase mine!

Before you rebase you may want to wait. I predict a new base size for fate master when the do the new size chart in a couple months

[simakover]

20 hours ago, Forrix said:

Looks pretty good overall. I wouldn't worry about more flamers. You want board presence. I'm sure there's ways to tweak it more (Gaunt Summoners are always amazing if there's a way to squeeze one in somehow) but I'd just play a couple games with that then take it from there.

im try to optimize more and have two lists im now thinking about

first - try to put gemenids and fatemaster without two many loses. 3x3 flamers, isnt critical to have 6-3?

Spoiler

Leaders
Fatemaster (120)
Lord of Change (380)
Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (130)
The Changeling (120)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 1990 / 2000

second - like it more. Gaunt Summoner, Daemonrift, Arcane Suggesion. many more -1 to hit, more control on table. same firepower, more overall wounds caouse 20 brims. but 3 deploy choice and feel scary about survivability of gaunt on first turn

Spoiler

Leaders
Fatemaster (120)
Lord of Change (380)
The Changeling (120)
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Darkfire Daemonrift (50)

 

[Maserdom]

On 3/6/2020 at 4:44 PM, Sumanye said:

It's a fun list, and I'd only recommend to swap the cursling for changeling or change caster or really any other wizard.

I'll have to ask - why is everyone so much against the Curseling, in favor of the Changeling?

The Curseling may be more expensive (40 extra points) than the Changeling, but they both have access to 2 spells, he has much better stats, he has 2 chances per enemy turn of instantly copying a spell and casting it back (without the risk of being denied) and he has his own spell (unlike the changeling) for stealing a new spell every turn.

The Changeling can teleport in the opponent's field in order to steal spells and be in even better range of every deny of his enemies at once, has a mediocre number of attacks (unless he buffs himself with +1tohit +1towound, once again in range of every possible deny once he has teleported) and has a bad statline which makes him suicidal. He's hoping that the free deep strike will let him charge an unsuspecting hero... while the opponent has already accounted for it. Holding onto those 40 points doesn't seem so good, in my eyes!

At this point, I'm fairly sure that I'm missing something huge. Can someone elaborate?

 

EDIT: also, why does The Changeling have only 1 spell in GW's Warscroll Builder? Is it a bug?

Edited March 7, 2020 by Maserdom
I forgot a sentence

[Grimrock]

3 hours ago, Maserdom said:

At this point, I'm fairly sure that I'm missing something huge. Can someone elaborate?

Well for me the big benefits are mostly due to changehost. He slots into changehost because he's a horror hero, and in changehost his set up is like a poor man's teleport on the first turn. It allows you to set up the loci on a teleporting pink unit and combining that with puckish misdirection helps even more. Plus you don't have to set him up near the enemy if you don't want to, you can always leave him in your zone and use him to cheaply cast endless spells. Oh, and his model is plastic haha. I like to avoid finecast whenever possible. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Grimrock

[Maserdom]

Aha, now I understands. I forgot the Changehost battalion!  (and the part about resin resonates with me, I ****** hate Finecrap sculpts beyond belief, and I havdn't noticed that most miniatures of the Tzeentch line are made of resin... dammit)

I thought about what has been written here about a Guild of Summoners list and realized that it doesn't really work at 1000 points. Indeed, our offensive spells, with 18'' of range, require our squishy casters to get in range, and a chicken lord turn 2 (casting turn 3) is mostly useless. Loading my mages with buffs, sitting in a corner and generally summoning the chicken turn 1 (quite feasible with the Blue Scribes full reroll, that pushes 6+ casts into the 92% success chance) would be nice, but said mages would then be stuck with useless buff spells rather than firestorms and whatnot.

Since a mid-tier Tzeentch list with mortals seems unfeasible without a load of squishy Acolytes shooting fireballs in a Pyrofane Cult army (i.e. Imperial Guard  v2 an army which I already play in 40k and I'd rather step away from in AoS), what would you say of this turbocancer list?

I suppose this list would be no-friends material, but if I have to commit I'd rather do it fully (1000 points):

Spoiler

• Gaunt Summoner (2 offensive spells)
• Gaunt Summoner (2 offensive spells)
• The Blue Scribes
• 10 Pink Horrors
• 10 Pink Horrors

Coven: Host Duplicitous

The aim of this list is to throw on the board 40 pink horrors (i.e. 200 wounds) on turn one, have them charge blindly into the enemies, tie them up while the heroes move their slow asses to the objectives, and keep the opponents'units swamped with resurrecting bodies (5+ of the Coven and auto-rolling battleshock tests of 1 with our Destiny Dice on the horrors). All of this while the Summoners happily throw spells into the mix of enemy units stuck without a chance of running away,. with the help of the Scribes'reroll.

Is it cancerous enough for 1000 point games, in a tournament setting?

 

EDIT: on the other hand, this new list requires a horrendous commitment. There's no way around it.

Four units of Pink Horrors equal 360 euros (30 euros for a Pink Horrors box and 30+30 for their Blues and Brimstones); two gaunt summoners are 45 more euros, 30 euros for the Blue Scribes, and a various amount of money for the subsequent summons throughout the match.

And this is without considering the insane amount of time needed to paint all the horrors. Holy ******.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Maserdom
Why do I always ht Save before I'm done?

[Arcce]

Hi, was put off getting fully into Tzeentch when i saw how much they were pushing costly daemons. Not the part of the army I like anyway.

With that in mind I was looking to make a Cult of Transient Form army with a big focus on tzaangors.

Threw together a mockup, was wondering what I could do to improve it. I have a Gaunt summoner but no desire to get the required horrors to summon. 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
Magister (100)
Magister (100)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
Fatemaster (120)

Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
20 x Tzaangors (360)

Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)

Battalions
Arcanite Cabal (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

 

[BaronBanana]

So I'm updating my list for my DoT Archaon list.  The chaos lord on for wasn't doing much, so I dropped it for three endless spells.  Daemon rift seems pretty alright with how many wizards and endless spells could be on the field

[simakover]

Is umbral spellportal is a must have for changehost lists?

[Hannibal]

On 3/6/2020 at 4:34 PM, Sumanye said:

I'm personally not a fan of the ahriman fate master proxy.  He's too big for a 32mm base and it just looks janky.  Also, Ahriman is so iconic in 40k, it's also a little immersion breaking imo.  If you feel the same, here is what I did.  I made my fate master with a chaos sorcerer lord body, new chaos warrior helmet, Enlightened Aviarch spear, disc made from extra chariot parts, and a shield from a  tzaangor.  

That is exactly what I´m working on right now. Though I use one of the old Chaos Warrior shields...

[Neomaxim]

Has anyone found value in going out of the way to maximize the efficiency of the Endless Spell Daemonrift?  I mean I know it can be excellent, but is there any quirky thoughts about outright building around it? 

[simakover]

How properly use the Changeling? In new codex he resigned, so im dont know how abuse him now - if im place him in op territory, he mow can be targeted and charged. If not, is he worth?

[AverageBoss]

For those wanting a more custom fatemaster, exalted sorcerers box it a good option with lots of parts (because its meant to let you build 3 characters). Could also use it to make a pair of custom foot caster too I suppose.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/exalted-sorcerers