AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[RUNCMD]

Let's all raise a schooy/pint/stein/bull horn/skull or whatever vessel your ale is consumed from to GW for doing the right thing and fixing their poor wording and reuniting the community!

So much Change in the past few months that they have won the favour of our Lord and Saviour!

It's been turbulent, but fun!

❤️

[Hebroseph]

On 2/5/2020 at 9:42 PM, Luke1705 said:

Joel Graham did very well with this list at a recent 200+ person event, going 5-1 and placing top 10. I was looking the interactions over and it is pretty bonkers.

Does anybody have any more information about this? Maybe it was streamed in the event? Looks fun but I don't see how it was strong enough to go 5-1 at a 200 person event. Maybe I'm missing something. 

Is it as simple as just Archaon just murdering everything while pinks hold enemy in place? 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Hebroseph

[newsun]

Would love to know how that deploys and looks for in targets.

[Luke1705]

9 hours ago, Hebroseph said:

Does anybody have any more information about this? Maybe it was streamed in the event? Looks fun but I don't see how it was strong enough to go 5-1 at a 200 person event. Maybe I'm missing something. 

Is it as simple as just Archaon just murdering everything while pinks hold enemy in place? 

So I haven't played the list, but as I understand it, it is something like what you said.  The daemonrift is a HUGE source of mortal output and the curseling's AOE spell re-rolls are an enormous force multiplier. Archaon can get the 2+ armor as soon as he spots the right enemy. One of the horror units becomes twice as hard to take an objective from (so just about literally impossible).  

I have not seen any streams, but I would love to if someone knows of any.

The difficulty in playing the list is maintaining it -1 to hit buff aura (archaon helps with this a lot lol), making sure that your endless spells don't get turned against you (except when you want to create more horrors).  The only thing I keep wanting to try to fit into this list is the lifeswarm to heal horrors after damaging them on the first turn.

Archaon is both a hammer and an anvil in this list (and an excellent one of both).  He's going to hit on a 1+ re-rolling all (not just failed, thank you Mr. Space Marine Chapter Master), wound on a 2+ re-rolling all (not just failed, so you can fish for slayer of kings if you want to) and he's got a 3+ (then a 2+ save once the agenda is completed) re-rolling all (not just failed, so rend is less detrimental to him).  He's -1 to hit and they have to re-roll their sixes....it's just a nightmare to even think about trying to kill him.  My friend plays LOTL Hearthguard Berserkers and Archaon *wants* to run into the poleaxe guys while he murders them.  The broadaxe ones are a little more annoying but it's still not the end of the world (and wow purple sun does so much work against HGB but that's neither here nor there). 

As long as you can keep your support heroes alive (gaunt until he poops out horrors and ideally the curseling and the sorcerer lord for the entire game) you are in a *really* good spot.  I honestly think this is one of, if not the, most competitive ways to play tzeentch right now.

Of course, this is all theorycraft at this point from me until it actually hits the table, but that will be soon enough

[RUNCMD]

11 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Archaon is both a hammer and an anvil in this list (and an excellent one of both).  He's going to hit on a 1+ re-rolling all (not just failed, thank you Mr. Space Marine Chapter Master), wound on a 2+ re-rolling all (not just failed, so you can fish for slayer of kings if you want to) and he's got a 3+ (then a 2+ save once the agenda is completed) re-rolling all (not just failed, so rend is less detrimental to him).  He's -1 to hit and they have to re-roll their sixes....it's just a nightmare to even think about trying to kill him.  My friend plays LOTL Hearthguard Berserkers and Archaon *wants* to run into the poleaxe guys while he murders them.  The broadaxe ones are a little more annoying but it's still not the end of the world (and wow purple sun does so much work against HGB but that's neither here nor there). 

Hey mate, sorry but can you explain how he gets a lot of these buffs? I can see the +1 to hit and wound from Infusion but how do you get the re-rolls for all? I can see how you get the the re-roll saves from the Sorcerer Lord and adding the +1 to saves for completing the Agenda but I cant see how you got the -1 to hit and also the enemy re-olling their 6's?

your run down of this list is pretty awesome! And re-reading a lot fo the Agendas Tzeentch has, Archaon can benefit from them so much!

[Luke1705]

8 minutes ago, RUNCMD said:

Hey mate, sorry but can you explain how he gets a lot of these buffs? I can see the +1 to hit and wound from Infusion but how do you get the re-rolls for all? I can see how you get the the re-roll saves from the Sorcerer Lord and adding the +1 to saves for completing the Agenda but I cant see how you got the -1 to hit and also the enemy re-olling their 6's?

your run down of this list is pretty awesome! And re-reading a lot fo the Agendas Tzeentch has, Archaon can benefit from them so much!

Re-rolls are from the warscroll spell on the sorcerer lord. Enemy re-rolling sixes to hit (only against archaon) is his new eye of sheeran ability. The -1 to hit is from the locus of tzeentch since archaon is a tzeentch daemon hero and he is within range of himself

[RUNCMD]

2 minutes ago, Luke1705 said:

Re-rolls are from the warscroll spell on the sorcerer lord. Enemy re-rolling sixes to hit (only against archaon) is his new eye of sheeran ability. The -1 to hit is from the locus of tzeentch since archaon is a tzeentch daemon hero and he is within range of himself

Nice one!!! Thank you. I forgot about locus of Tzeentch - such a cool effect.

[Fredenkvist]

21 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Re-rolls are from the warscroll spell on the sorcerer lord. Enemy re-rolling sixes to hit (only against archaon) is his new eye of sheeran ability. The -1 to hit is from the locus of tzeentch since archaon is a tzeentch daemon hero and he is within range of himself

So a hero affects itself on the locus of change? Never thought about that..

[Hebroseph]

6 hours ago, Fredenkvist said:

So a hero affects itself on the locus of change? Never thought about that..

Unless otherwise stated in the wording, all units that provide an aura of some sort, are within range of themselves. 

[DaCapo]

Well, I m not so sure about this list since the aoe spell reroll only affects DAEMON wizards and wholly within 9" the bearer so keeping archaon wholly within the curseling is extremely hard and only him the gaunt and the horrors benefits of it so well archaon will have a hard time keeping his spell buffs. 

[NJohansson]

2 hours ago, DaCapo said:

Well, I m not so sure about this list since the aoe spell reroll only affects DAEMON wizards and wholly within 9" the bearer so keeping archaon wholly within the curseling is extremely hard and only him the gaunt and the horrors benefits of it so well archaon will have a hard time keeping his spell buffs. 

The best buff for Archaon is from the sorcerer lord (both the ability and the spell) - one within 12, the other 18 inches. Archeon deploys within 9 of the general and 12 of the sorcerer - then off he goes killing (depending on how far he needs to go to get stuck in Archaon should still be in range of the sorcerer - if the sorcerer runs). The list is brutal - naturally so are a lot of other lists and it will have the same type of bad match ups as other massive point sink armies (e.g. Nagash) has.

Very interesting and different.

[DaCapo]

Don't forget it's wholly within 12 (and archaon size base is 6.1) and wholly within 18 and the spell requires a 6 and not to be unbound and you don't double pile in

And your sorcerer will not be in range if archaon launches a charge even at 3""

Cos 12-3(charge)-3(distance between archaon and sorcerer movement if he did a 6 with his run roll)-6.1(archaon baze size)<0  and realistically ossiarch kills your wizards turn 1 (at least 2) (it's really hard to hide from those crawlers). 

And the last problem from my pov is that your bad match ups are actually the top armies : fyreslayers, ossiarch, Tzeentch

 

[NJohansson]

43 minutes ago, DaCapo said:

Don't forget it's wholly within 12 (and archaon size base is 6.1) and wholly within 18 and the spell requires a 6 and not to be unbound and you don't double pile in

And your sorcerer will not be in range if archaon launches a charge even at 3""

Cos 12-3(charge)-3(distance between archaon and sorcerer movement if he did a 6 with his run roll)-6.1(archaon baze size)<0  and realistically ossiarch kills your wizards turn 1 (at least 2) (it's really hard to hide from those crawlers). 

And the last problem from my pov is that your bad match ups are actually the top armies : fyreslayers, ossiarch, Tzeentch

 

You do realize that you are saying that a list that went 5-1, ended top 10 and that actually did play against top tier armies does not have what it takes to compete at a higher level?

The list is really strong and I honestly do not see that it will auto loose to either of the armies you mentioned. Archeon will be close to impossible to take out, the list has very good dispel/unbind potential, a strong magic phase, can hold objectives and has lots of various tools. Keeping your units in synergy range is always a challenge - but that is up to the player/how good he/she is.

[Luke1705]

Yeah the only list it lost to was petrifex nagash. Turns out if you struggle to cast any spells, this list is in trouble 😅

You don’t really need double pile in in this list because they can’t fall back. So you’ll get to swing on their turn even if they really don’t want you to lol, which is functionally similar to a double pile in.

Fyreslayers are actually a pretty good matchup. Archaon eats polexe zerkers for breakfast, they have no magic defense and you can kill their heroes rather easily with your magic.

Non-nagash OBR doesn’t really concern me with this list. They can pump out tons of damage yes but they are slow and will never kill archaon while he can whistle them down. Also the daemonrift does absurd amounts of mortal wounds and that is the weakness of OBR (not to mention the other spells that do mortal wounds)

Other tzeentch could certainly be a problem. I don’t even want to think about playing a mirror match or against eternal conflagration changehost. Pink horrors vs each other just sounds like a logistical nightmare.

That being said, all the respect in the world to this guy for pioneering the list but I’m not sure how well it deals with slaanesh (although I think in between spells and unkillable archaon it does the trick)

[DaCapo]

Well we don't know  against what he/she played and how good he/she is (and I honestly think he/she is an excellent player) . It has good unbinding agaisnt armies that don't have any casting buffs. Not against the others. 

He cant reroll 3 spells out of 9 turn 1 and 5 spells out of 9 starting turn 2 (archaon will never be in range of the curseling) but one he can't reroll is essential for archaon to deal enough damages. 

And now against fyreslayers he has like 0 offensive spells so he can never kill any characters. And to kill 20 berzerkers he needs to do 80 wounds and at most most most he does 48  wounds. Now knowing the slayers hits first if they dont have any buffs he takes btw 4-6 wounds with his full buffs he kills 9 slayers  then at their turn the 11 remaining slayers deals him btw 8 and 10 wounds and if some others join the party he is dead or if the slayers were buff before archaon attacking them. And even if you more or less kill them your archaon is very low and they still have 2 packs (but well honestly it's scenary dependant agaisnt fyreslayers)

Daemonrift deals absurd damages if you still have your sorcerers and your archaon is in range to cast it (dont forget he has 7 poses he will almost never choose who begins) and if the sorcerer lord is dead turn 1 archaon is really really weak he will die against morteks or other things like that. And since the army only have one threat well it's easier to play around.

Well to sum up what i mean is this list is really good i think against non shooty army/ magic dependant army.

Else it's really to hard from my pov. 

And well my archy full reroll and hits twice with nurgle mark only killed 6 morteks guards. And statiscally speaking full reroll he kills btw 6-15 morteks without the gothizzar behind.

And the horrors will die against 20 morteks. (And will not retake the objective if they dont kill one boy)

[Lordneylon]

Dear Friends,

I am starting a new AoS campaign. 

It will be my first time with tzeentch. I want to play Eternal Conflagration Host. 

First game will be at 1250 points and next ones at 2000 points.

I kindly request your support and advice: Which are 2 eternal conflagration balanced lists at 1250 and 2000 points now that changehost only allows one unit to be teletransported? How many heroes?

Thanks a lot!

Fran

 

[Xyxel]

Does Horrors summoned by Gaunt Summoner count as part of Change Coven he was in?

[NJohansson]

11 hours ago, Xyxel said:

Does Horrors summoned by Gaunt Summoner count as part of Change Coven he was in?

The rules for covens state that all Tzeentch units in the army gets the keyword (not a choice but automatically) so I would assume yes - although there is no FAQ (as far as I know) that states it 100 percent.

[Sumanye]

4 hours ago, NJohansson said:

The rules for covens state that all Tzeentch units in the army gets the keyword (not a choice but automatically) so I would assume yes - although there is no FAQ (as far as I know) that states it 100 percent.

This is covered in the AoS core rules FAQ, and indeed the answer is yes.

[NJohansson]

4 hours ago, Sumanye said:

This is covered in the AoS core rules FAQ, and indeed the answer is yes.

Just out of curiosity - where in the FAQ (good to know if the argument comes up)?

[simakover]

After FAQ, is changehost still chosen one for competitve play? that do you think about rosters with kairos? 

 

[Dreadmund]

1 hour ago, simakover said:

After FAQ, is changehost still chosen one for competitve play? that do you think about rosters with kairos? 

 

It's no longer the be-all-and-end-all, but it is still very strong and probably going to remain the most popular build. The teleport is still an amazing ability, even if you can "only" use it once per turn now. It also has the huge benefit of including everything you need for a powerful army, allowing you to make a 1 drop army if you want. There are lots of ways to build a good Tzeentch army now though, so I don't think anyone should feel like they -have- to go changehost. Although, I will be lol.

[Anca]

On 2/15/2020 at 10:22 PM, Lordneylon said:

Dear Friends,

I am starting a new AoS campaign. 

It will be my first time with tzeentch. I want to play Eternal Conflagration Host. 

First game will be at 1250 points and next ones at 2000 points.

I kindly request your support and advice: Which are 2 eternal conflagration balanced lists at 1250 and 2000 points now that changehost only allows one unit to be teletransported? How many heroes?

Thanks a lot!

Fran

 

As for the 1250 points list,

I went this saturday at a local tournament with this list, worked very well and is quite balanced :

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration

Leaders
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Fatemaster (120)
- General
- Trait: Coruscating Flames
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Malevolent Maelstrom (10)

Total: 1250 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 52  

[Hebroseph]

1 hour ago, simakover said:

After FAQ, is changehost still chosen one for competitve play? that do you think about rosters with kairos? 

 

I ran Wytchfire cult before the FAQ, and I'm running it after the FAQ. I think it has pretty good legs to offer a competitive alternative to changehost. It's not cutting edge top tier, but your opponent will know you were in the fight. 

[simakover]

im interest in more spell caster army, like using kairos, daemon rift, more endlesses