AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Deadkitten]

On 2/10/2020 at 6:48 PM, RUNCMD said:

What are some peoples favourite unit / spell / aretfact combos at the moment?

I ran a Horror heavy Changehost yesterday.  My second artifact was the DD 5+replacement one.  I can see how people like it.  I ran the Aura of Mutability reroll wounds one in a 1 Day event previously.  I'm sort of torn.  The Aura translates to increased punch but the DD replacement is clearly good IF you are decent at managing DD.  I think the floor is higher on the Aura but the ceiling is higher on the DD one.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Deadkitten
opps

[Paniere]

any reason why the gaunt's disk's profile in SdT is different from all the other disks in the DoT book? 

[Luke1705]

On 2/10/2020 at 2:37 PM, Drachenbibbles said:

Afternoon Cultists,

I played an almost exact mirror match over the weekend, it may well have been the best games I've ever played but my god do we play slow. Tzaangors specifically take ages to rollout with all their different  weapon profiles. We managed to get to the end of turn two after nearly 3 hours then had to theory out the rest of the game after seeing who won turn 3 priority.

 

What I actually wanted to ask was how everyone is playing the Cult of the Transient form with its command ability on a unit of Acolytes, where if they die in combat they can potentially fight and even become Tzaangor.

+++ MOD HAT +++ Edit: Please do not post up photos of battletomes on TGA!

We had different interpretations of how this works out so wanted to see what you all think, I'll do two examples, both with a unit of 10 acolytes where say 5 have been killed in combat and a unit of Tzaangor is within 9" behind them:

1. You roll a dice for each of the 5 slain Acolyte and the command ability has given each individual roll a plus 1, so the roll of 2-5 to let them fight before removal has become 1-4 and the roll of 6 to add a Tzaangor to the nearby unit has become a 5-6

2. You cumulatively add the 5 plus 1s to the roll so the Acolytes turn into Tzaangor essentially automatically.

 

We both could see why either interpretation could be correct in the game we played so rolled for it but it'd be nice having an idea of what the community thinks.

So actually I would have certainly thought it was interpretation 1, but the command ability says the unit's ability, not the roll for that model.  They probably actually mean the first interpretation, just based on how powerful the latter interpretation would be.  However, for an event that I was TO'ing at, I would rule in favor of interpretation 2 as written.  I would definitely send in for an FAQ as although the language isn't ambiguous, it has the tried and true feeling of "this is too good to be true and sounds like GW not understanding what words mean". 

It's taken me many years of playing both 40k and AoS competitively for that particular  spidey sense to be tuned, but I feel pretty confident that GW intends the first interpretation, to the point where I could see a TO saying "we're going to play it Rules As Intended and use interpretation 1"

[Luke1705]

15 hours ago, RUNCMD said:

What are some peoples favourite unit / spell / aretfact combos at the moment?

I'm becoming a bigger and bigger fan of archaon in a duplicitous host.  He can get the +1 save buff so easily and with a friendly sorcerer lord he is going to do SO MUCH WORK.  The list I'm working towards doesn't have a battalion so I'm stuck with the required trait and artifact, which are totally fine on the sorcerer lord (+1 save) and curseling (aoe spell re-rolls).

The spell I really like for archaon is of course +1 to hit and +1 to wound (infusion arcanum) and then for him to cast the daemonrift. That endless spell is just bonkers.  I like having archaon because I feel like it is decently easy to snipe out the gaunt summoner (maybe not in one turn but it could totally happen, and your opponent is going to be extra motivated to do so before he poops out the horrors).  Having archaon not only gives an unmovable brick that people can't fall back from, but it also provides some seriously meaningful offense.  Hitting and wounding on re-rollable 2+ is like.....pretty good it turns out.

[Sumanye]

8 minutes ago, Luke1705 said:

So actually I would have certainly thought it was interpretation 1, but the command ability says the unit's ability, not the roll for that model.  They probably actually mean the first interpretation, just based on how powerful the latter interpretation would be.  However, for an event that I was TO'ing at, I would rule in favor of interpretation 2 as written.  I would definitely send in for an FAQ as although the language isn't ambiguous, it has the tried and true feeling of "this is too good to be true and sounds like GW not understanding what words mean". 

It's taken me many years of playing both 40k and AoS competitively for that particular  spidey sense to be tuned, but I feel pretty confident that GW intends the first interpretation, to the point where I could see a TO saying "we're going to play it Rules As Intended and use interpretation 1"

I agree they probably meant interpretation 1, but I disagree it’s interpretation 2 as written as it says “roll” singular not plural.  It would need to say “add 1 to the dice rolls made for that unit’s Change-gift ability.” to make it interpretation 2 in my opinion.

But that’s not my point; people have different reads and I’m not super interested in hearing people’s rules lawyering as I’m sure they aren’t in hearing mine.  My point is, this conversation exists and the wording is definitely ambiguous.

[Luke1705]

3 hours ago, Sumanye said:

I agree they probably meant interpretation 1, but I disagree it’s interpretation 2 as written as it says “roll” singular not plural.  It would need to say “add 1 to the dice rolls made for that unit’s Change-gift ability.” to make it interpretation 2 in my opinion.

But that’s not my point; people have different reads and I’m not super interested in hearing people’s rules lawyering as I’m sure they aren’t in hearing mine.  My point is, this conversation exists and the wording is definitely ambiguous.

Sorry if I made it sound like there is only one correct interpretation. Obviously GW could intend one way or the other. Grammatically, I disagree that it should say dice rolls plural if interpretation 2 is intended because it says each time, and you only roll one die each time a roll is made. That wouldn’t fix the issue.

All I’m saying is that I read it in a specific way for the reasons outlined. Clarity from GW is always appreciated, as their use of language is not always clear or consistent. At the end of the day, all opinions are just that - opinions which could be right or could be wrong.

That being said, I do see the ambiguity on a third read through. And frankly, just the fact that reading it more times can change one’s opinion on the solidity of a position is never good rules writing.

[RUNCMD]

18 hours ago, Deadkitten said:

I ran a Horror heavy Changehost yesterday.  My second artifact was the DD 5+replacement one.  I can see how people like it.  I ran the Aura of Mutability reroll wounds one in a 1 Day event previously.  I'm sort of torn.  The Aura translates to increased punch but the DD replacement is clearly good IF you are decent at managing DD.  I think the floor is higher on the Aura but the ceiling is higher on the Aura.

Yeah the Aspect of Tzeentch (the 5+ DD one) is great! It used to work a bit differently that you either rolled a 1 or 6 and added that in but the 5+ is alright. Couple that with the spell of Glimpse the Future on an Arcanite or also run the Horror Battalion "Overseer's fate-twisters" which has more DD Shenanigans! So some strong combos there!

Aura of Mutability is fantastic when coupled with some of those +1's to hit! V strong.

[RUNCMD]

4 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

I'm becoming a bigger and bigger fan of archaon in a duplicitous host.  He can get the +1 save buff so easily and with a friendly sorcerer lord he is going to do SO MUCH WORK.  The list I'm working towards doesn't have a battalion so I'm stuck with the required trait and artifact, which are totally fine on the sorcerer lord (+1 save) and curseling (aoe spell re-rolls).

The spell I really like for archaon is of course +1 to hit and +1 to wound (infusion arcanum) and then for him to cast the daemonrift. That endless spell is just bonkers.  I like having archaon because I feel like it is decently easy to snipe out the gaunt summoner (maybe not in one turn but it could totally happen, and your opponent is going to be extra motivated to do so before he poops out the horrors).  Having archaon not only gives an unmovable brick that people can't fall back from, but it also provides some seriously meaningful offense.  Hitting and wounding on re-rollable 2+ is like.....pretty good it turns out.

Yeah there are alot of ways to buff Archaon in a Tzeentch list hey, and you're bang on about Infusion! Such an amazing spell. I'm not overly sure if there is a way to make him fight twice in a Tzeentch list (someone should please correct me on that if there is) but with Infusion on him this would be super powerful and devastating!

Host Dup with screamers can do a lot of frustration as people get tied up having to waste attacks into them, especially if it is a Main Character or Hero, and you're Archaon just flies around being the killing machine he is!

[Grimrock]

1 hour ago, RUNCMD said:

Yeah there are alot of ways to buff Archaon in a Tzeentch list hey, and you're bang on about Infusion! Such an amazing spell. I'm not overly sure if there is a way to make him fight twice in a Tzeentch list (someone should please correct me on that if there is) but with Infusion on him this would be super powerful and devastating!

Chaos lord with mark of tzeentch can do it, he can struggle a bit keeping up though. 

[RUNCMD]

2 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Chaos lord with mark of tzeentch can do it, he can struggle a bit keeping up though. 

You are awesome, thank you kind stranger! Sidenote - Chaos Lord on foot is SUCH a cool model!

[RUNCMD]

Anyone know what's going on with these extra covens on Azyr? Is the App just cooked for some reason, or are these two new covens out of Wrath of the Everchosen? If they are from WOTE does anyone know what they do at all? 

Also, does anyone else know how to get Archaon into a Tzeentch list on Azyr without allying him in? I know Azyr isn't perfect but I can't figure it out. 

[NJohansson]

4 hours ago, RUNCMD said:

Anyone know what's going on with these extra covens on Azyr? Is the App just cooked for some reason, or are these two new covens out of Wrath of the Everchosen? If they are from WOTE does anyone know what they do at all? 

Also, does anyone else know how to get Archaon into a Tzeentch list on Azyr without allying him in? I know Azyr isn't perfect but I can't figure it out. 

Yes the new covens are from the Wrath book. Also regarding Archaon - just chose Tzeentch and under leaders he is first choice (at least for me).

[Sumanye]

New Tzeentch FAQ up.  DD always count as unmodified and cannot be rerolled.  Exceptions for battleshock and saves are for modifications only, so Pink Horrors can still use a 1DD for battleshock.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Sumanye

[Smashin']

25 minutes ago, Sumanye said:

New Tzeentch FAQ up.  DD always count as unmodified and cannot be rerolled.  Exceptions for battleshock and saves are for modifications only, so Pink Horrors can still use a 1DD for battleshock.

*Sigh of relief* I'm so glad they've cleared this up, I'm still surprised they worded it so poorly in the previous version of this but at least they gave us a relatively quick fix!

[Paniere]

so, if i m getting it straight, if my GS on disk gets one rend 1 wound in melee, he will not be able to save it using DD (since his 6+save gets modified by rend but not by the +2 from disk)?

[Sumanye]

3 minutes ago, Paniere said:

so, if i m getting it straight, if my GS on disk gets one rend 1 wound in melee, he will not be able to save it using DD (since his 6+save gets modified by rend but not by the +2 from disk)?

Correct

[GeneralZero]

wow, that means you'd better not use DD on him then.

[Lou_Cypher]

Considering how Pink Horrors easily fold to stray attacks coming their way.... think blocks of 20 would be more useful for those 1 rolls? I feel groups of 10 die too quickly. 

[MattyP]

Made a change based list for fun and curious how it looks to others. Theme is change (i.e. changing into chaos spawn or Tzaangors)...not sure which coven to use...could try Transient form to add more change-s to the list. hehe

 

Kairos

GS on disc

Magister on disc

Tzaangor Shaman

 

20 Tzaangors

20 Acolytes

10 Acolytes

 

Vortex beast

 

Buring Sigil

Daemon Drift

Spell Portal

Pendulum

[Deadkitten]

7 minutes ago, Lou_Cypher said:

Considering how Pink Horrors easily fold to stray attacks coming their way.... think blocks of 20 would be more useful for those 1 rolls? I feel groups of 10 die too quickly. 

oh yes, blocks of 20 Pinks is the way to go.

[Martijn de Bruin]

So with all these tzeentches 😁, how would a new Changehost list, aimed at competiveness, look like today?

[Luke1705]

28 minutes ago, Deadkitten said:

oh yes, blocks of 20 Pinks is the way to go.

Really interesting I’ve been listcrafting with blocks of 10 for the most part. Changehost needs so many units that I feel like you don’t really have points for 20 and the list I want to run with archaon....well let’s just say archaon is a few points too 😂

[Lou_Cypher]

1 hour ago, Martijn de Bruin said:

So with all these tzeentches 😁, how would a new Changehost list, aimed at competiveness, look like today?

I'd say it's all fine as long as you have your core combo for the first turn. Though I usually like going 2nd.

Changeling to deploy close to an enemy and provide an aura. And a block of Horrors to teleport with him. Look at the biggest threat and light it up with some shooting. 

If the enemy goes next? Hit them with the Changeling's movement and hitting penalty for a minimum of -2 to hit. 

If you get the double turn. Debuff the enemy with spells for even more -1s to hit.

All the units will be looking to kill those Horrors. And whenever they get hit, they will kill them. But first, they must actually hit them.

[Deadkitten]

1 hour ago, Luke1705 said:

Really interesting I’ve been listcrafting with blocks of 10 for the most part. Changehost needs so many units that I feel like you don’t really have points for 20 and the list I want to run with archaon....well let’s just say archaon is a few points too 😂

Archaon warps a list around himself.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Deadkitten

[Inquisitorsz]

Yay FAQ has been updated. I was right. I will graciously accept all apologies 😜