AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Sumanye]

1 hour ago, simakover said:

but we have 2 other source of reroll - Scribes and duplicious aura. tome cost points, cost 1 cast and give weak spell but reroll. double 1 and double 6 is not that great im think

Obviously, people aren’t taking scribes or host duplicitious for every list.  One other thing about the tome is it extends your spell casting range 

[MitGas]

2 hours ago, Hannibal said:

Bullgors or Varanguard?

Hi all, just wanted to get your opinion on wether to run Bullgors or Varanguard.

I want to field a rather low model count, somewhat elitish army that basically consists of Flamers, Exalted Flamers and either Bullgors (phantasmagoria of fate battalion) or Varanguard (maybe the Varanguard battalion, I´m not sure yet). Reasons are I love these models. Though I´m currently not able to decide wether to run Bullgors or Varanguard. That´s why I like to know your opinions here.

 

I´m leaning more towards Bullgors, but they do not really scale, meaning I´m not able to field Bullgors + battalion in smaller games. This has to be a 2000 pts list.

On the other hand, Varanguard offer Tzeentch keyword on their warscroll, meaning I can run them even in the smallest games.

Or should I get a unit of Varanguard for smaller games and build a 2000pts force based Bullgors?

So many decisions...

 

Any advice you like to share?

 

Thanks in advance

Personally I‘d include a Lord of Chaos if I ran Varanguard - having them fight a second time (plus a third time once per game due to their own ability) is much needed to make them a more viable pick. Just an idea... of course it‘s kinda annoying to have them stay close to the Lord... then again, said lord could be near a unit of chaos warriors to give those some more iffensive power too and later on catch up with the Varanguard.

I‘m also looking for good synergies with the StD units as I really want to use them without feeling I‘m totally wasting points. But IMO there‘s nothing more beautiful than a diverse army, so I‘ll probably aim for Guild of Summoners and get some Kairic/Tzaangor/Warriors mix going - getting pinks through the Gaunt... might not be ideal but with lots of heroes and the realistic chance of summoning two LoC, I think there‘s enough budget for some cool heroes and /or Varanguard....

[Hannibal]

2 hours ago, MitGas said:

I‘m also looking for good synergies with the StD units as I really want to use them without feeling I‘m totally wasting points.

Well, in my opinion there are plenty of synergies found on the warscrolls of most StD units. You already named Chaos Lord. Chaos Sorcerer Lord comes to mind, too. Some of the mounted characters offer buffs for cavalry. Archaon buffing Varanguard also works. And that´s just from memory. If you run a list full of StD units in one of the God-themed armies you almost get a second layer of synergy.

2 hours ago, MitGas said:

But IMO there‘s nothing more beautiful than a diverse army, so I‘ll probably aim for Guild of Summoners and get some Kairic/Tzaangor/Warriors mix going - getting pinks through the Gaunt... might not be ideal but with lots of heroes and the realistic chance of summoning two LoC, I think there‘s enough budget for some cool heroes and /or Varanguard....

Sounds good. Go for it. Since the release of Battletome DoT I have been thinking about an all mounted StD army under Tzeentch allegiance, but I couldn´t find some list I like the look of right now.

[NJohansson]

3 hours ago, Sumanye said:

Obviously, people aren’t taking scribes or host duplicitious for every list.  One other thing about the tome is it extends your spell casting range 

For the same cost you can get 1 extra cast (1 more cast is almost always better than Reroll) and even more extended spell casting range through Vortex. For 10 - 20 points more you get access to really good damage spells with added utility. The spell you get  only damages on 3+ (so the actual spell you get is far worst point for point than any of the 50 points and/or 30 points spells).  To add insult to injury you get damage on double 1 an 6. The Double one can be a nice trade off but double 6 is almost always successful regardless (few people will try to dispel a 12.

To summarize - point for points there are far better endless spells (IMHO). 

[Sumanye]

1 minute ago, NJohansson said:

For the same cost you can get 1 extra cast (1 more cast is almost always better than Reroll) and even more extended spell casting range through Vortex. For 10 - 20 points more you get access to really good damage spells with added utility. The spell you get  only damages on 3+ (so the actual spell you get is far worst point for point than any of the 50 points and/or 30 points spells).  To add insult to injury you get damage on double 1 an 6. The Double one can be a nice trade off but double 6 is almost always successful regardless (few people will try to dispel a 12.

To summarize - point for points there are far better endless spells (IMHO). 

Well, I’m not advocating the tome, I’m simply answering the guys question. 

However, disagree about extra cast being better than reroll cast.  If I fail to get arcane suggestion off for example, it doesn’t really matter if I have an extra cast for some other spell, I’m not casting arcane suggestion that round because I failed it.  Also, unlike balewind, a model can move with the tome out.  I don’t think anyone takes tome for parchment curse, they take it for rerolls and possibly a bit of a boost on spell range.

Ultimately, the tome is another tool in the toolbox and I’m glad to have it even if I likely won’t use it much.

 

 

 

[Gwendar]

My take on it; personally I would be far more inclined to bring Scribes + BW. It get's off it's own spell to throw out a 24" aura over 18" and will get another cast on subsequent turns to make use of it's own abilities instead of just being a RR battery.

Added benefit of it fitting into Changehost and thus can be moved while on the BW. Same point cost as a Changeling + Tome.

[Sinfullyvannila]

6 hours ago, simakover said:

but we have 2 other source of reroll - Scribes and duplicious aura. tome cost points, cost 1 cast and give weak spell but reroll. double 1 and double 6 is not that great im think

Unbind immunity on 1’s is the biggest thing you’re going for with the tome.

[simakover]

So, now we have 3 working main rosters:

• Shooting: Eternal conflagration with 12-15 flamers
• Magic: Duplicious with magic oriented list
• control?: Summoners 

That also we can bring on competitive table? 

[CountryMou3e]

11 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Added benefit of it fitting into Changehost and thus can be moved while on the BW. 

The balewind will automatically dispel if you changehost teleport a model that's on it as its left the battlefield. Nothing is stopping you auto dispelling it, teleport and then recast though. 

[Drib]

Spoiler

17 hours ago, MitGas said:

Personally I‘d include a Lord of Chaos if I ran Varanguard - having them fight a second time (plus a third time once per game due to their own ability) is much needed to make them a more viable pick. Just an idea... of course it‘s kinda annoying to have them stay close to the Lord... then again, said lord could be near a unit of chaos warriors to give those some more iffensive power too and later on catch up with the Varanguard.

I‘m also looking for good synergies with the StD units as I really want to use them without feeling I‘m totally wasting points. But IMO there‘s nothing more beautiful than a diverse army, so I‘ll probably aim for Guild of Summoners and get some Kairic/Tzaangor/Warriors mix going - getting pinks through the Gaunt... might not be ideal but with lots of heroes and the realistic chance of summoning two LoC, I think there‘s enough budget for some cool heroes and /or Varanguard....

 

Keep in mind that you can not fight twice for a second time, as the Lord of Chaos and the Varanguard only allows a unit to pile in and attack a second time.

[MitGas]

19 minutes ago, Drib said:

  Hide contents

 

Keep in mind that you can not fight twice for a second time, as the Lord of Chaos and the Varanguard only allows a unit to pile in and attack a second time.

Hmpf, true. Well, 3 fights would've been overkill anyways in 99% of cases anyways.  Thx!

[Aelford]

So I've messed about with the combat army. What's the thought on this now?

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Hosts Duplicitous
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)
- General
- Trait: Will of the Phantom Lord
- Artefact: Brand of the Spirit Daemon
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Fatemaster (120)
- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
The Changeling (120)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
3 x 10 Ungors (180)
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened (300)
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened (300)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened (200)
Phantasmagoria of Fate (200)
Extra Command Point (50)
Soulscream Bridge (80)
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)

[Gwendar]

4 hours ago, CountryMou3e said:

The balewind will automatically dispel if you changehost teleport a model that's on it as its left the battlefield. Nothing is stopping you auto dispelling it, teleport and then recast though. 

How do you gather that? Do you know how many army's utilize the BW that can teleport? If there's an FAQ I've missed please let me know... But as far as I know this is incorrect. It's all considered one model and as a setup it remains with you. This is the case with Skavens Skitterleap and Seraphon teleports just as examples.

[Blitzd]

4 hours ago, CountryMou3e said:

The balewind will automatically dispel if you changehost teleport a model that's on it as its left the battlefield. Nothing is stopping you auto dispelling it, teleport and then recast though. 

This is not true at all

[JonnyTheKing]

In a pyrofane Cult with the Kairic battalion what unit sizes would you use for it in your opinion?

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, JonnyTheKing said:

In a pyrofane Cult with the Kairic battalion what unit sizes would you use for it in your opinion?

Most people will go something like 30, 10, 10 but I think thats a trap. You put all your eggs in one basket. A list im theorizing is 30, 20, 20 that way you have options and a good threat from all 3 units instead of just one unit that can be focused down.

[CountryMou3e]

6 hours ago, Gwendar said:

How do you gather that? Do you know how many army's utilize the BW that can teleport? If there's an FAQ I've missed please let me know... But as far as I know this is incorrect. It's all considered one model and as a setup it remains with you. This is the case with Skavens Skitterleap and Seraphon teleports just as examples.

 

6 hours ago, Blitzd said:

This is not true at all

 

[Gwendar]

@CountryMou3e And?

Relevant Skaven FAQ:

Edited January 23, 2020 by Gwendar

[CountryMou3e]

2 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

@CountryMou3e And?

Relevant Skaven FAQ:

Q: Does a Balewind Vortex with a Skaventide Hero atop it travel with the Hero if they use Skitterleap?
A: Yes.

Nice

[MattyP]

so, I love the new endless spells for Tzeentch (probably would try to take 1-2 of them in a list) but realized that if i take the GS he has StD keyword and that gives access to StD endless spells. Are they worth taking? Been hearing a lot about Darkfire Demon drift

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

Question, if I take the chainfire amulet and roll a 6, do I lose the whole attack or just the 6 up.

the wording states “the attack sequence ends” and someone told me that means the whole attack, not just the 6 up that does the mortal wounds.

the wording is similar for the slaves to darkness daemon prince for his sword so I’m very confused whether I’ve been been playing this correctly 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

2 minutes ago, MattyP said:

so, I love the new endless spells for Tzeentch (probably would try to take 1-2 of them in a list) but realized that if i take the GS he has StD keyword and that gives access to StD endless spells. Are they worth taking? Been hearing a lot about Darkfire Demon drift

If you use a lord of change so that it can’t be used against you then the darkfire daemon rift is the most damaging endless spell in our arsenal! 

If needing pure damage then it’s a great choice to destroy foes who dare come close to your wizards.

the realm scourge is also good for slowing down key combat units

[Sumanye]

What are people doing to build their Kairic Acolytes with respect to cursed glaives and shields?   This has always been a problem and it's always bugged me that you cannot really build Kairic Acolytes wysiwyg without conversion and I was really hoping this would be fixed in the new book.  I'll probably wait for the FAQ before I build anymore acolytes, but honestly I think I'm just going to say hell with it and build my cursed glaives with shields.  Not really interesting in converting a bunch of models, but also really hate things not being wysiwyg.  I understand most opponents won't care, but I guess I just like my army to be accurate.

 

[GeneralZero]

This is the kind of list I'd like to refine, chose the relic, traits etc... Guid of summoners to get ASAP a LoC. 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

LEADERS
Kairos Fateweaver (400) ( 3 spells )
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240) ( 2 spells )
Magister on Disc of Tzeentch (140) ( 1 spells )
Tzaangor Shaman (150) ( 2 spells once per battle / 1 spell )
The Changeling (120) ( 3 spells with BW vortex)

UNITS
20 x Tzaangors (360)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100) ( 1 spells )
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100) ( 1 spells )
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)

TOTAL: 1970/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 120
LEADERS: 5/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 0/1 ALLIES: 0/400

I have to add the balewind vortex also.

With the summoned LoC+horrors there are 64 more wounds and add to this some summoned chaos spawns...

I feel a bit short on 2 departments:

- endless spells for offensive 

- number of spells to trigger the 9 fate points T1.

What do you think?

[Sumanye]

5 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Question, if I take the chainfire amulet and roll a 6, do I lose the whole attack or just the 6 up.

the wording states “the attack sequence ends” and someone told me that means the whole attack, not just the 6 up that does the mortal wounds.

the wording is similar for the slaves to darkness daemon prince for his sword so I’m very confused whether I’ve been been playing this correctly 

Whoever said that is wrong.  There is no such thing as a "whole attack".  An attack sequence is hit, wound, save, damage.  You do one of these for each attack your weapon can make.  If your weapons makes 3 attacks, then you do 3 attack sequences.  The chain fire amulet will end the attack sequence for any attack that rolls a hit of 6.  It sounds like you have been playing it right.