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AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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14 hours ago, Neffelo said:

It's still very hit or miss. It would be nice if it trickled down a bit more. I live in a pretty large region, and realm spells are pretty much a no-go for the moment.

Due to that, it's still a point that needs to be considered. 

We use them in the USA Midwest region

 

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Just submitted this list for a tourney next week.  Not happy with the characters and Endless Spells but it's what I have.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Trait: Coruscating Flames
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (130)
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
Changehost (180)
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 84


 

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6 hours ago, iogaa said:

Kinda concerned how only one list had arcanites, and that was only 10 acolytes.

That and the fact that this thread only talks about daemons worried me... 

Do you think mostly arcanite lists will be viable? (As in, mostly Tzaangor and acolytes)

As others have said, I really think Pyrofane Cult has legs... especially if you throw in Witchfyre Coven for something shooting based that will also bring in Disc Enlightened for some melee threat. Hell, throw in some Skyfires as well for Hero harassment. All in all, I think it's too early to tell as it can take some time for meta lists to shift; the fact the player with 18 Flamers lost to a 10 model army could be telling... but without any game footage it could very well have just been horrific rolls or simply down to both players; lots of factors.

I'm playing a 12 Flamer list at first, but over time I think I will likely shift into 60-70 KA's under Witchfyre\Pyrofane as an alternative shooting based army. I'm not particularly keen on regular Tzaangors though, but that isn't to say they're bad.. I think most feel the KA's are better for their points is all. 

5 hours ago, Hebroseph said:

Changling. I think hes just begging to have Treachery of Tzentch as his spell lore. Hitting an enemy unit with treachery to give them a -1 and then his ability for another -1 will go a long way towards keeping that big unit in line with their weaker 5+ armor save. 

This is why I liked the Be'lakor list. You could quite easily build a list that will throw out -1 to hit like it's candy:

  • Changelings ability: -1 to hit
  • Treason: -1 to hit
  • Arcane Suggestion: -1 to hit & wound
  • Be'lakor: -1 to wound (melee) who can also shut a unit down OPG with his ability
  • Geminids: -1 to hit
  • Locus: -1 to hit daemons

So.. yeah, you can stack those or spread them out. It makes Tzeentch a bit more "resilient" than most anticipate at first.

Edited by Gwendar
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Also something nice to see: several tzeentch armies already played and several almost top players already. Ogors were early seen as middle tier, they are top tier. OBR were seen OP, we already see them less. KO were seen middle and....well, KO. Zero list. 

I'm confident that tzeentch has at least the potential to deal with the actual meta. (beeing top tier, I just don't care 😎 ) 

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22 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

OBR were seen OP, we already see them less

Same thing has largely happened with Skaven.. I think the WLV range nerf (which absolutely needed to happen), the Plague Monk nerf and the Fiend max unit nerf they will start dropping closer to 45-50% or maybe A-B tier. 

I think these heavy hitting BCR lists, shooting\magic heavy lists from CoS, Tzeentch and Skaven are all good counters to OBR which is why we're seeing them drop out a bit but still retain their A-S tier spots. Could be seeing a new meta emerging.

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I don't see OBR lasting longer than , for example CoS/Skaven/Tzeentch: why? Just because past their petrifex, there are poor possibilities and a short range of miniatures.  CoS/Skaven/Tzeentch have in common a large miniature pool, several solid builds, some fun alternatives and as a bonus some additional synergies with other armies (at least to have fun!). Lets take our tzeentch as an example: you can easily add/synergize with BoC, Chaos, StD (I'm not speaking ALLY here).

I wasn't a big fan of tzeentch 2 years ago, I'm starting to be completely under their charm now! (not yet for horrors but I'm sooooo loving those birds, tzangors, kairic, LoC/K, heros, ogroid...)

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12 hours ago, Grimrock said:

@PUFNSTUF I think I like the first list the best, but I'd make a couple tweaks. I like Infusion Arcanum on archaon personally, and I'm not sure you'll need the aerherquartz brooch since archaon generates two a turn already. Maybe there thermal rider cloak on the sorcerer? That way he can keep up with archaon and keep buffing as long as possible. 

Thanks for the feedback. I thought of infusion Arcanum but the sorc is giving rerolls to him anyways, but it could work if he's given a negative modifier. I'll have to test it. Yea maybe thermal rider or gryph feather would be better on the sorc.

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I think the reason you see the tilt toward daemons is, anyone who played Changehost in AoS 1.0 or 2.0 already has the army painted.  Flamers are super cheap ($20 for 3 here) and easy to paint, and although they’ve never been good before, it’s easy to prepare a force in a small amount of time.  Arcanites otoh, have basically never been good outside of disc Tzaangors and most people probably don’t have sizable forces painted.  Tzaangors were good for a few months between AoS 2.0 launch and BoC book nerfing them, but I don’t really see running more than 1 unit of Tzaangors in this book anyway.


In time I think arcanites will be played.  I’m building and painting 50 acolytes myself and taking a break from painting horrors.

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27 minutes ago, PUFNSTUF said:

Thanks for the feedback. I thought of infusion Arcanum but the sorc is giving rerolls to him anyways, but it could work if he's given a negative modifier. I'll have to test it. Yea maybe thermal rider or gryph feather would be better on the sorc.

Yeah there's a touch of redundancy but even with the rerolls I'm always worried about dice with him haha. I've had too many games where he wiffed an important round of combat and then it was just too hard to crawl back and make him worth the points. I guess it's easiest to just test it out and see which one is more useful for you. 

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17 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Yeah there's a touch of redundancy but even with the rerolls I'm always worried about dice with him haha. I've had too many games where he wiffed an important round of combat and then it was just too hard to crawl back and make him worth the points. I guess it's easiest to just test it out and see which one is more useful for you. 

Have you ran archaon in the new tzeentch yet? If so how did it go? He seems very powerful with tzeentch.

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1 hour ago, Sumanye said:

I think the reason you see the tilt toward daemons is, anyone who played Changehost in AoS 1.0 or 2.0 already has the army painted.  Flamers are super cheap ($20 for 3 here) and easy to paint, and although they’ve never been good before, it’s easy to prepare a force in a small amount of time.  Arcanites otoh, have basically never been good outside of disc Tzaangors and most people probably don’t have sizable forces painted.  Tzaangors were good for a few months between AoS 2.0 launch and BoC book nerfing them, but I don’t really see running more than 1 unit of Tzaangors in this book anyway.


In time I think arcanites will be played.  I’m building and painting 50 acolytes myself and taking a break from painting horrors.

Yeah. Very few people had kairic acolytes painted - they've never been good. Plus they are hard to paint. Personally I prefer the arcanites so will also be using then, but it takes time!

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1 hour ago, PUFNSTUF said:

Have you ran archaon in the new tzeentch yet? If so how did it go? He seems very powerful with tzeentch.

Not yet no, I've been working on my Slaves army. Once I'm done there I'll be bouncing back to tzeentch. I can say even without the buffs tzeentch can give he's pretty solid, so I'm excited to try it out.

Edited by Grimrock
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9 minutes ago, Grotruk said:

Quick question.

How does the interaction between shackles (for exemple) and daemonrift works ?

Do the shackles count as 3 endless spells ? Oo

“Soulsnare Shackles is a single endless spell that consists of 3 models (if it is dispelled, remove all 3 models).“

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So I'm very interested in playing Pyrofane Cult, Kairics are some of my fav models in the Tzeentch line. So what would an "ideal" pyrofane list look like? I've got this right now:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Changecult: Pyrofane

Leaders:
Lord of Change (380) (General)
 - Shrouded in Unnatural Flame
 - Chainfire Amulet
 - Spell TBD

Magister on Disc (140)
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
Curseling (160)

Units:
5x10 Kairic Acolytes (500)
1x6 Tzaangor Skyfires (400)
1x3 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs (180)

Endless Spells:
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

 Probably not optimal, but it's what I've come up with so far. The Curseling was originally an Ogroid Thaumaturge with Paradoxical Shield if I could fit a battalion in.

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45 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said:

So I'm very interested in playing Pyrofane Cult, Kairics are some of my fav models in the Tzeentch line. So what would an "ideal" pyrofane list look like? I've got this right now:


Allegiance: Tzeentch
Changecult: Pyrofane

Leaders:
Lord of Change (380) (General)
 - Shrouded in Unnatural Flame
 - Chainfire Amulet
 - Spell TBD

Magister on Disc (140)
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
Curseling (160)

Units:
5x10 Kairic Acolytes (500)
1x6 Tzaangor Skyfires (400)
1x3 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs (180)

Endless Spells:
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

 Probably not optimal, but it's what I've come up with so far. The Curseling was originally an Ogroid Thaumaturge with Paradoxical Shield if I could fit a battalion in.

Since you already have 3 Enlightened you should look to add the Wytchfire Coven Battalion. 1 unit of 30  Acolytes (instead of 5 of 10). Or maybe 2x20 and 1x10 (pending on preferences). Would probably drop the magister to get the points. 

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1. The Changeling - Pucklish Misdirection
This ability happens in any moment of enemy hero phase ?? Can it be used before he dies from MW spells/abilities?

2. Mutative Flux (Burining Sigil of Tzeentch endless spell)
On 3-4 roll a move of D6" allows to get out of combat coherence? Or into combat?

3. Fold Reality spell. Lets say unit of 10 Pink Horrors lose wounds, change to Blues, change to Brims.
Last 1 Brimstone Horror model remains. This spell returns 2+ Pink Horrors?

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12 minutes ago, NJohansson said:

Since you already have 3 Enlightened you should look to add the Wytchfire Coven Battalion. 1 unit of 30  Acolytes (instead of 5 of 10). Or maybe 2x20 and 1x10 (pending on preferences). Would probably drop the magister to get the points. 

I did try a version of that at 2500 with the Wychfire Coven, 1x6 Enlightened on Foot (cause they have to be :( ) and 3x20 kairics but it went poorly against OBR with Katakros and Nagash, i'm just not sure how to fight those two tbh

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9 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said:

I did try a version of that at 2500 with the Wychfire Coven, 1x6 Enlightened on Foot (cause they have to be :( ) and 3x20 kairics but it went poorly against OBR with Katakros and Nagash, i'm just not sure how to fight those two tbh

They can be foot or disc enlightened. Definitely recommend at least 2 units 20+ for coven. I'd want 30,20,20 ultimately if I was running it.

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26 minutes ago, Xyxel said:

1. The Changeling - Pucklish Misdirection
This ability happens in any moment of enemy hero phase ?? Can it be used before he dies from MW spells/abilities?

2. Mutative Flux (Burining Sigil of Tzeentch endless spell)
On 3-4 roll a move of D6" allows to get out of combat coherence? Or into combat?

3. Fold Reality spell. Lets say unit of 10 Pink Horrors lose wounds, change to Blues, change to Brims.
Last 1 Brimstone Horror model remains. This spell returns 2+ Pink Horrors?

1.) No, it cannot be used anytime.  The players who turn it is has the option to resolve all of their abilities before you can resolve any of yours. 
 

2.) yes, because it is not a normal move

 

3.) yes

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46 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said:

I don't think they can, as it isn't bolded keyword Enlightened and Enlightened on Discs are a separate entry (such as in Skyshoal Coven)

You can, this has been pointed out multiple times, and is even on page 121 with pictures of the relevant rules on why it's possible. 

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Hello change casters,

  I sold out of AoS several months ago as my local area did not partake in it very much, it is mostly a 40k area.  Personally I prefer AoS, but you know how it is when there is a local game that is the primary, you play it or you play very infrequently.  That said, there still are people hosting AoS events once a month and I want to help support my local AoS health, so I figured I would buy into AoS again.  I was always tempted by a Demons army because it can be played in both AoS and 40k, letting me double duty the paint work and finance investment.  My problem was that I was on the fence between Khorne and Tzeentch (heresy I know) and while i was debating my selection the new Disciples of Tzeentch battletome dropped out of no where.  So... my goal is to make a list that is compatible with 40k and AoS, which restricts me from taking most of the AoS mortals like the acolytes and gaunt summoners and the like.  On the 40k side, Tzaangors only exist in the Thousand Sons codex and not in codex Deamons for some reason and I am a big fan of the birdy gors.  So I decided to use the limitations of the Thousand Sons choices for my AoS list to start off, obviously adding more in the future.  I am not trying to win every game, but I also don't want to be a complete push over. The goal is to make my opponents new and experienced alike enjoy playing against me so the community grows.   This is the list I came up with.

Leaders

  •  Lord of Change
  •  Tzaangor Shaman
  •  Tzaangor Shaman

Battleline

  •  x30 Tzaangors
  •  x10 Tzaangors
  •  x10 Tzaangors

Other

  • x3 Tzaangor Skyfires
  • x3 Tzaangor Skyfires

1980/2000 Points

 

I have no coven or artifact or command trait as I have no idea what is best for a tzaangor army like this, and I figured I would ask those who know better here.  As to realm, I was thinking Ethereal Amulet on the Lord of Change or something but I am sure there are better options.

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