AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[mmimzie]

1 hour ago, Grimrock said:

Someone mentioned this before, but it bears repeating because people keep missing it. Battleshock tests work by taking your roll and modifying it with the number of casualties. In the new rules when destiny dice are used, the roll can no longer be modified or rerolled. That means any destiny dice, from a 1 to a 6, makes horrors immune because the roll is always less than 10. Doesn't matter if you've lost 40 models in one go, that modifier is ignored once you use a destiny dice. 

 

I wouldn't tell anyone thinking of buy more model to build a list with this in mind. This is very liable to change with an FAQ, and change is what our god does.

 

That said by this same token your destiny dice also ignore rend 

 

29 minutes ago, MattyP said:

What are people's thoughts on the Host Duplicitous Change Coven?   I like the sound of it but wondering on the thoughts of more experienced players

It interest me Abit as well. It definitely would have to be a wizard heavy list and likely no battalion. Thankfully, that +1 save artifact looks quite good on a LoC.  LoC and 2 or 3 change casters would be a powerful spell engine and you'd like cast almost all your spells letting you maybe summon some blues up the table to contest. 

 

The command ability is us less, but the no retreat is amazing even more so against armies like skaven.

It the one coven that threats to take me from guild of summoners.

[MattyP]

So, been playing around with some list ideas from new tome.

The first is the Eternal Conflag. w/ Changehost battalion

EternalConflagration-Changehostlist.pdf

This one is Guild of Summoners Coven

GuildofSummonersList.pdf

This one is just the Host Arcanum Coven

HostArcanumlist.pdf

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by MattyP

[mmimzie]

12 minutes ago, MattyP said:

So, been playing around with some list ideas from new tome.

The first is the Eternal Conflag. w/ Changehost battalion

EternalConflagration-Changehostlist.pdf 5.73 MB · 2 downloads

This one is Guild of Summoners Coven

GuildofSummonersList.pdf 5.73 MB · 2 downloads

This one is just the Host Arcanum Coven

HostArcanumlist.pdf 5.73 MB · 1 download

 

Post em up as text but use the spoiler thing so we can hide them. Some of use use our phone or don't want to download a file, but are interested in commenting.

[MattyP]

5 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

Post em up as text but use the spoiler thing so we can hide them. Some of use use our phone or don't want to download a file, but are interested in commenting.

ah, ok. sorry.....Reposting.

here they are again.

1 Guild of Summoners

2  Eternal conflagration-changhost

3 Host Arcanum

Spoiler

The Blue Scribes (120)
Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (130)
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240) - General
The Changeling (120)
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
UNITS
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
9 x Screamers of Tzeentch (240)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Tome of Eyes (40)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 

Spoiler

 

The Changeling (120)
Lord of Change (380) - General
The Blue Scribes (120)
Fateskimmer, Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot (140)
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
UNITS
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
BATTALIONS
Changehost (180)
TOTAL: 1990/2000 

Spoiler

Lord of Change (380) - General
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
Magister on Disc of Tzeentch (140)
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)
UNITS
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)
6 x Screamers of Tzeentch (160)
9 x Screamers of Tzeentch (240)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)
 

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by MattyP

[Sumanye]

Anyone have any thoughts about Kairos?  His Oracle of Eternity ability is different now, probably weaker than before the book.  But one interesting thing about Oracle of Eternity is you can use it on an opponents charge roll to make their charge roll 2-7" and unable to be modified or rerolled.  This is potentially huge if used at the right time, especially if your opponent was counting on say a short 5-6" charge and saved a command point for it just in case and you make them fail it anyway.  His spell-eater ability and triple cast can allow him to (assuming spell portal was already setup from the last turn), cast a spell through the portal, eat the portal, cast the portal, and send another spell through.  He could use this to generate 2 chaos spawn per turn at a long distance by borrowing a spell from a magister for example, or perhaps Gift of change and bolster your tzaangors at long range with Boon of Mutation and free your shaman to cast a Lore of Fate spell instead.  Seems like he can do some fun things and I'm excited to give him a try.

[Grimrock]

2 hours ago, mmimzie said:

I wouldn't tell anyone thinking of buy more model to build a list with this in mind. This is very liable to change with an FAQ, and change is what our god does.

 

That said by this same token your destiny dice also ignore rend 

Yeah the modifier thing is bizarre. I kind of get why they added it in but I don't think they worked through all the implications of unmodifiable dice. Battleshock is one. Ignoring positive modifiers like the LoC command ability or the Aura of Mutability is another. Not sure if abilities like the Mastery of Magic would trigger either. It does ignore debuffs as well though, so for example if you have a khorne opponent with hexgorger skulls, skull altar and bloodsecrator you just toss out a few destiny dice and your spell is good to go.

The trick is that to fix it they'll either have to remove the modifier bit from destiny dice and Kairos, rewrite how battleshock works entirely, or add a totally non-intuitive exception specifically for battleshock being the one roll that is still modifiable. I'm not really sure what to expect, but if it's affecting the core rules they'll probably wait to do it in the handbook. 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Grimrock

[Paniere]

2 hours ago, Sedraxis said:

Am I missing something or can Changehost lists just lock an entire army into dealing with 150-200 wounds of horrors before they can leave their deployment zone and contest objectives?

Seems bonkers

 

my first game with new book was testing changehost+host duplicitous. I tool turn one , teleported 20+10 pinks in Front of 1 unit of gore gruntas and 1 unit of 30 arboyz, then I shot and charged using dd. the plan was to pin them there . at the start of my second turn both my units were wiped out

Edited January 14, 2020 by Paniere

[Gwendar]

24 minutes ago, Paniere said:

at the start of my second turn both my units were wiped out

Yeah, this is a point I tried to make earlier. While it is a lot of bodies, they're still incredibly fragile and there are numerous units in the game (especially in the higher level meta) completely capable of putting out absurd damage numbers that even a DD or Inspiring Presence can't save you from.. at the very least these units will be able to finish them off on their next turn.

This is why I think it's important to have things like Flamers\buffed Pink shooting to cripple\kill those hammer units before they can do their job and Changehost allows for that quite easily as it stands.

[angrycontra]

Yeah I don't see the fuss about horrors. Unit of clanrats costs 200p and that's 40 wounds with 5+ sv and nobody is complaining about them. There are powerful killer units out there that can just delete your horrors in one turn. In fact, if you play tzeentch mirror, unit of 6 tzaangor enlightened on discs with the +1 attack on charge (maybe even without it) can super easily delete one horror unit before they get to do anything and they don't even have to go second in combat. 

And if you're talking about how broken or whatever horrors are in changehost, well that is changehost issue, not horror issue.

[Sigwarus]

Well the charge need to just gently touch the opposing unit at an edge. They wont do that many wounds if only 1-2 minis could fight. Its totally enough to hold them for 2 turns.

[Sinfullyvannila]

3 hours ago, mmimzie said:

4 hours ago, Grimrock said:

 

I wouldn't tell anyone thinking of buy more model to build a list with this in mind. This is very liable to change with an FAQ, and change is what our god does.

I agree, but I can really see it going either way. We burn through our destiny dice much more quickly now than we used to. Someone who plays OBR told me this and I had to roll my eyes.

But it’s always a good idea to wait on buying models we may not need.

[Sinfullyvannila]

4 hours ago, RoloMcFury said:

How so? Just put the 2 Blues roughly in the same spot the dead Pink was in (smaller base), leaving a bit of space between each to make sure you have that wiggle room. You remove the slain THEN add the new models, within 1" of where the removed one was (which obviously includes the entire spot the original base was in). It's logistically annoying, but pretty simple in practice.

25x2 > 32 

impossible is an overstatement but it’s still a consideration.

[Sinfullyvannila]

4 hours ago, RoloMcFury said:

How so? Just put the 2 Blues roughly in the same spot the dead Pink was in (smaller base), leaving a bit of space between each to make sure you have that wiggle room. You remove the slain THEN add the new models, within 1" of where the removed one was (which obviously includes the entire spot the original base was in). It's logistically annoying, but pretty simple in practice.

25x2 > 32 

impossible is an overstatement but it’s still a consideration.

[mmimzie]

1 hour ago, MattyP said:

ah, ok. sorry.....Reposting.

here they are again.

1 Guild of Summoners

2  Eternal conflagration-changhost

3 Host Arcanum

  Reveal hidden contents

The Blue Scribes (120)
Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (130)
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240) - General
The Changeling (120)
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
UNITS
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
9 x Screamers of Tzeentch (240)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Tome of Eyes (40)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The Changeling (120)
Lord of Change (380) - General
The Blue Scribes (120)
Fateskimmer, Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot (140)
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
UNITS
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
BATTALIONS
Changehost (180)
TOTAL: 1990/2000 

  Reveal hidden contents

Lord of Change (380) - General
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
Magister on Disc of Tzeentch (140)
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)
UNITS
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)
6 x Screamers of Tzeentch (160)
9 x Screamers of Tzeentch (240)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)
 

 

Thanks a lot for the fix. Since you took the effort to fix it up. I'll do the effort of giving you my thoughts.

For the guild of summoners I might consider an LoC in the list. It does a lot to help you reach that spell threshold to summoning another LoC. If you do guild you want to make sure you will summon an LoC. I love the 200 man pink squad.  You may also consider sneaking in the bridge. I'd also find room for gimnids and pendulum

 

Etneral coonflag: I'd drop the skimmer for a change casters and make the unit of 10 Pinks a second 6 man flamer squad. Maaaybe? That's knit picking, but I feel it lacks some punch.

 

Host arcanum: if get the enlightend to 9 man. You want to hit really hard.otherwise you've got all the important tools. Definitely use the -1 to hit and wound spell on the gaunt summoner. So you can protect your enlightened.

[Sunraeteam]

On 6/21/2018 at 5:01 PM, NemoVonUtopia said:

A lot of people seems to think that 10 pink horrors is equal to 50 wounds, when in matched play you cant add more models to a unit then it started with if Im not wrong about this. (I hope I am) It could ofc get changed in a faq but unless Im wrong that should get 10 pink horrors 30 wounds and 5 explosions doing around one mortal wound to the attacking unit. There is a lot of things in AOS with similar wounds for 200 points. 40 skeletons are 280 for comparison... (Sorry for the spelling typing on my phone.)

If they changed the "models added to units" in matched play rule plz post a link or tell me where the corect rule is written. Thanx!

 

[Sunraeteam]

Here is my first take on a changehost list.

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Trait: Coruscating Flames
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
The Changeling (120)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 66

The plan is to have Balewind Vortex used by the changeling to get him inside the 9 inches needed to debuff a unit in the opponents hero fase with a - to hit and half move. I think this list requirest carefull play and it might B weak to alpha strikes but for a first draft it might B ok, it gives upp 1-dropp for 10 horrors witch is bad, and I should probbably have some screamers in the list to save 20 points. (Drop one of the exalted flamers) The plan is to summon a small unit of screamers ASAP, but I can see some strong arguments for having them alredy on the board. 

[MitGas]

1 hour ago, Sunraeteam said:

 

Huh?

The horrors split - one pink splits into 2 blues, 1 blue splits into two brimstones (one base). You can get more models than you started via rolls of 1 in your battleshock phase as the already added blue and brimstone horrors don't disappear if pinks get added back in. You can only have 10 pinks in that unit though if it started as 10 pinks. But in theory the blues/brims are endless.

[Sunraeteam]

The blue horrors are not resurected but added to the unit. Models added can not go over the starting value, lets say 10, so you start with 10 pinks and 5 gets killed, you cound add in at most 5 blue horrors taking the unit size back upp to 10 in, matched play, not 15. (Or so I have been told plz confirm or refute) You could later heal pink horrors with banner or magic to get them upp to 15 but you could never add more blue horrors untill the unit size goes back under 10 if that was the units starting size. The maximum you could possible have when starting with 10 pink horrors in matched play would B 20 in total (all 10 pink horrors have been killed and replaced with blue/brimstone horrors and then all 10 Pink horrors have been added back to the unit with say

banner(roll a 1)+fold reality (Dont roll a 1).

@:-) Atleast this is how I think Multitudinous Host battalion used to work pre new battletome.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Sunraeteam
Forgot something.

[Sunraeteam]

In open play you would ofc get 50 wounds out of 10 pink horrors asuming you had the models. But for matched play Im not to shure, best to w8 untill the first faq comes out I guess.

[Maddpainting]

It was already a thing tho, people played 6 units of Horrors before to get insane amounts of wounds on the table, most players stopped b.c it was the most annoying thing to play. In 1 round you could be forced to remove 10 models, place 20, then 1min later remove 20 and place 20 different ones. After doing that 10-12x players gives up on taking 60/120/120 models lol.

[RoloMcFury]

Guys, you’re referring to a rule from AoS 1.0 that is not currently in play. Added models can go beyond original size and do not cost points. 

 

 

[Sunraeteam]

Thank you RoloMcFury. Must have missed that part when they changed to AOS 2.0 Time to paint some more horrors!

[haneybird]

To add to what RoloMcFury said, this is why some abilities say you can add models to units and some say you can return models to units. Adding models adds new models to the unit, increasing the size of the unit if you are at the original size (or larger). Returning models restores models that were originally in your unit but have been slain or ran away due to battleshock but can not increase the size of your units.

[rockmanko]

So I am new to Chaos, may I ask for some suggestions / guide to build a 2000 points list with the half Aether-War Box?

(relatively competitive is ok)

Is lord-of-change a must-buy/must-include under the new Battletome?

What about include some StD units? or just go straight Tzeentch 

 

Magister on Disk- 140

Screamers - 80

Enlightened on Disk x6 - 360

 

580 points so far

Thank you!

[SwashBuccaneer]

3 minutes ago, rockmanko said:

So I am new to Chaos, may I ask for some suggestions / guide to build a 2000 points list with the half Aether-War Box?

(relatively competitive is ok)

Is lord-of-change a must-buy/must-include under the new Battletome?

What about include some StD units? or just go straight Tzeentch 

 

Magister on Disk- 140

Screamers - 80

Enlightened on Disk x6 - 360

 

580 points so far

Thank you!

@rockmanko I don't think the disc birds in the box give an option to build them as 6 Skyfires or 6 Enlightened. When I opened mine to pull out the KO stuff I looked the directions over and they're 3 enlightened and 3 skyfires.