AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[AaronWilson]

Yes Curzex  As long as it doesn't state "Only a Stormcast Eternal Wizard can cast this spell" etc. 

[Korvak]

2 hours ago, The Cyclop Owl said:

The awesome thing about that box is that if you magnetise your Skyfires/enlightened, the amount of combinations and battalions possible in there is huge. At this point, literally nothing is bad in that box.

 

As for the list, Tzaangors tend to underperform when you only play 10, as they get bonus attacks the bigger the unit becomes. 

I played a 1k point version of that list for a while, I was too new to have success with it but I remember Alter-Kin being very underwhelming.

Alter-kin does seem like it'll be somewhat hit and miss, but figured it's only 80pts in effect (free command point), and gets an extra artefact. I'd like to run the full 20 Tzaangors, but figured the points were better spent on the Curseling, as one wizard on his own didn't feel like enough?

Could always drop the battalion and pick up 80 points worth of Endless Spells, and still get the command point (don't want to risk getting alpha-struck and losing any Skyfires.)

[Boss Salvage]

5 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

So I played a 1k point game last night against my friend which resulted in a bit of the feel bads ...

Thanks for the write up. I didn't get the Gaunt Summoner love until I read his spell, and wow, that's some heat right there. Those were the kind of spells that ran competitive 8E, ones capable of countering the massive unit meta. Bro isn't as stunningly good as the Curseling - so many solid rules packed in one place, even if y'all mostly taking him for the mega dispel/glean - but both of those heroes are nutty good.

Speaking of beatdowns, I wrote another report over on my Dakka blog, this time 1k vs Mixed Order. Just linking to it for the interested, as pasting it in felt like it messed with this thread.

[TheOtherJosh]

42 minutes ago, Korvak said:

The awesome thing about that box is that if you magnetise your Skyfires/enlightened,

If you don’t mind the curiosity, how are you handling the magnetizing of the Skyfires? That sounds like it could be fun... (or insane ... I haven’t determined which.)

[AaronWilson]

1 minute ago, Boss Salvage said:

Thanks for the write up. I didn't get the Gaunt Summoner love until I read his spell, and wow, that's some heat right there. Those were the kind of spells that ran competitive 8E, ones capable of countering the massive unit meta. Bro isn't as stunningly good as the Curseling - so many solid rules packed in one place, even if y'all mostly taking him for the mega dispel/glean - but both of those heroes are nutty good.

Speaking of beatdowns, I wrote another report over on my Dakka blog, this time 1k vs Mixed Order. Just linking to it for the interested, as pasting it in felt like it messed with this thread.

The Curseling is very good in a different way, he's a amazing defensive / utility caster. A 42" unbind range (with Magical Supremacy) which allows you to re-cast any applicable spells you do un-bind is massive. Put that on top of his two spells slots which are ideal for chucking your endless spells out as his Glean Magic is fairly situational all for a 160 point package is fantastic.

The Gaunt Summoner is very good in a offensive way, as you said his spell will remove half a horde at a time and I typically use his second slot for Bolt of Tzeentch so he is a bit of a MW powerhouse.

Both fantastic models, I'm playing my first 2k game next week and I'm taking both I'll take a read of the battle report, thanks for sharing bud.  

[Binkbinkplx]

I was wondering if I could get some advice on my Tzeentch army. Previously ran a more traditional Tzaangor/Skyfire setup but wanted to try adding some of the Slave to Darkness things! Any advice or criticism is greatly appreciated!

Chaos Lord on Manticore (250)

 

                General

                Paradoxical Shield

                Soul Burn

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)

                Steed

                Glimpse the Future

Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)

                Bolt of Tzeentch

Gaunt Summoner of Tzeenth with Chaos Familiars (180)

                Treacherous Bond

Daemon Prince (160)

                Axe / Fly

                Fold Reality

Battelines:

 

Chaos Warriors x30 (480)

                Hand Weapons / Shields

Pink Horrors x10 (200)

                Unchecked Mutation

Kairic Acolytes x10 (80)

Other Units:

 

Flamers of Tzeentch x3 (160)

Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch x1 (100)

Endess Spells:

 

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total Points :1990

 

The idea being a more tanky army. I really fell in love with the Manticore and wanted to somehow incorporate it. Most of the issues im having with is trying to figure out which Endless Spells to bring? I have the flexibility of dropping the Exalted Flamer (100) to change which spells to attempt to bring.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Binkbinkplx

[DaftSkunk]

11 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

We do need more female models in the Tzeentch line... (not that one can tell male v.s. female for Tzaangor ...)

I've seriously considered converting up a bunch of the Witch elves as Kairic Acolytes .... either with two blades, or blade and shield. (That and they're awesome models.) Alternately I've considered doing a minor conversion of adding the additional sword to the Sorcereress and running her as a Chaos Sorcerer Lord.

Looking at the Witch Elf poses it seems tricky to me to get shields onto them. How would you go about it?  I've also been trying to get more variety in my tzeentch mortals, but the question of how to get female Kairic Acolytes has me stumped. Would love some ideas for that, as I plan to get at least another 20, maybe even 40 as I grow my cult. 

[The Cyclop Owl]

11 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

If you don’t mind the curiosity, how are you handling the magnetizing of the Skyfires? That sounds like it could be fun... (or insane ... I haven’t determined which.)

Actually I fully built the Skyfires previously, and so I had to start from there. I cut the lances of the Enlightened from the sprues and made them all one handed. From there I figured how to connect the Skyfires bow arms with the lances, used heat on a blade to get a decent clean cut and started drilling very small holes before I went bigger. The magnets I have are 3x2mm, and they sometimes protrude from the arms, so I might have to come up with a greenstuff patch to hide them properly. I hid the connection in the wrists and elbows, so that it doesn't matter if there's a slight imbalance in the alignment.
To keep the Skyfire build clean, I've cut the engaged arrow at the feather, very close to the hand with a heated blade. 

As for accessories, so far I've left the quivers, I don't know that I'll go crazy and fully magnetise every piece of kit. Timewise, it's taken me 3 hours to do 3 of them last night. To be honest, the result is quite satisfactory.

[AaronWilson]

5 minutes ago, Binkbinkplx said:

I was wondering if I could get some advice on my Tzeentch army. Previously ran a more traditional Tzaangor/Skyfire setup but wanted to try adding some of the Slave to Darkness things! Any advice or criticism is greatly appreciated!

Chaos Lord on Manticore (250)

 

 

                General

 

                Paradoxical Shield

 

                Soul Burn

 

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)

 

                Steed

 

                Glimpse the Future

 

Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)

 

                Bolt of Tzeentch

 

Gaunt Summoner of Tzeenth with Chaos Familiars (180)

 

                Treacherous Bond

 

Daemon Prince (160)

 

                Axe / Fly

 

                Fold Reality

 

Battelines:

 

Chaos Warriors x30 (480)

 

                Hand Weapons / Shields

 

Pink Horrors x10 (200)

 

                Unchecked Mutation

 

Kairic Acolytes x10 (80)

 

Other Units:

 

Flamers of Tzeentch x3 (160)

 

Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch x1 (100)

 

Endess Spells:

 

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

 

Soulsnare Shackles (20)

 

Total Points :1990

 

 

The idea being a more tanky army. I really fell in love with the Manticore and wanted to somehow incorporate it. 

 

I quite like the list, it has a fair amount of bodies which is nice for scenario plays. It might be working looking at taking Shield of Fate, I wouldn't normally reccommend at Tzeentch is light on saves and you want to burn through DD fast, but having a blob of warriors with a 4+ save re-rolling  1,2s and 3s seems good. 

Infusion Arcanum is a great spell for the Manticore lord, who isn't bad in combat in the first place and it also might be worth looking at the Gryph feather charm for him. He tends to attract a bit of heat as his a nasty spell (especially when manipulated via DD) so -1 to hit and making him faster seems solid. 

[TheOtherJosh]

16 minutes ago, Boss Salvage said:

Speaking of beatdowns, I wrote another report over on my Dakka blog, this time 1k vs Mixed Order. Just linking to it for the interested, as pasting it in felt like it messed with this thread.

Ahh nice run through of the DP+Horrors list ...

You mentioned : “Prince uses Treason to compel the grandhammer on the bridge to smash the lightning out of his Liberator buddy.”

Was that just a literary turn of phrase? Or were you using the “attack with their own weapon, the instead of the faq’d Treason Of Tzeentch”?

I noticed that all all of your Horrors in the pics were painted blue? And none of the pinks appeared to be pink....?

[TheOtherJosh]

5 minutes ago, The Cyclop Owl said:

Actually I fully built the Skyfires previously, and so I had to start from there. I cut the lances of the Enlightened from the sprues and made them all one handed. From there I figured how to connect the Skyfires bow arms with the lances, used heat on a blade to get a decent clean cut and started drilling very small holes before I went bigger. The magnets I have are 3x2mm, and they sometimes protrude from the arms, so I might have to come up with a greenstuff patch to hide them properly. I hid the connection in the wrists and elbows, so that it doesn't matter if there's a slight imbalance in the alignment.
To keep the Skyfire build clean, I've cut the engaged arrow at the feather, very close to the hand with a heated blade. 

As for accessories, so far I've left the quivers, I don't know that I'll go crazy and fully magnetise every piece of kit. Timewise, it's taken me 3 hours to do 3 of them last night. To be honest, the result is quite satisfactory.

@The Cyclop Owl any potential for pics of the units? It sounds pretty interesting.

[Binkbinkplx]

5 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

I quite like the list, it has a fair amount of bodies which is nice for scenario plays. It might be working looking at taking Shield of Fate, I wouldn't normally reccommend at Tzeentch is light on saves and you want to burn through DD fast, but having a blob of warriors with a 4+ save re-rolling  1,2s and 3s seems good. 

Infusion Arcanum is a great spell for the Manticore lord, who isn't bad in combat in the first place and it also might be worth looking at the Gryph feather charm for him. He tends to attract a bit of heat as his a nasty spell (especially when manipulated via DD) so -1 to hit and making him faster seems solid. 

Its the the Chaos Lord, not the Sorcerer Lord. So unfortunately he does not get a spell I believe? The mark just gives him the ability to unbind. He will still get quite a bit of heat which is why I wanted to give him the shield, 2+ Shield, rerolling successfuls and 1s ( buffed with Sorc Lord to make him more killy). I got the list to run Fatesworn Warband and hoping that comes back soon! haha

 

[AaronWilson]

Ahhh yeah English is  hard  Fair enough, just if you roll a 1 into a 1 he dies. I've always liked the idea of paradoxal but the idea that he just dies on the failed save has always scared me off. 

 

[The Cyclop Owl]

7 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

@The Cyclop Owl any potential for pics of the units? It sounds pretty interesting.

Tried to give you the best angle possible to see the connection, other poses can be made more dynamic. 

As you can see it’s going to require a bit of clean up but it’s completely possible.

[Binkbinkplx]

4 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

Ahhh yeah English is  hard  Fair enough, just if you roll a 1 into a 1 he dies. I've always liked the idea of paradoxal but the idea that he just dies on the failed save has always scared me off. 

 

Whoa, I've never heard this before? If I reroll a save and its a 1, i just take the wound like normal correct? Only thing I know if a 1 flat out killing something would be the spell Fold Reality to bring back Daemons? I hope I havent missed something major!

[AaronWilson]

2 minutes ago, Binkbinkplx said:

Whoa, I've never heard this before? If I reroll a save and its a 1, i just take the wound like normal correct? Only thing I know if a 1 flat out killing something would be the spell Fold Reality to bring back Daemons? I hope I havent missed something major!

I thought the Paradoxial sheild allows the wearer to re-roll failed save rolls and +2 to them but if you fail a save the wearer is slain? I might be thinking of the wrong item  

Also the way rend applied to re-rolls isn't ideal for a 2+ save. Say you suffer 4 wounds at rend -2, due to modifiers applying after the roll you couldn't re-roll the 2's and 3's, because they're a pass until you apply the modifier. So if you roll 1,2,3,4 you can re-roll the one, not the 2,3 and then the 2,3 fail due to the -2. 

Edited July 12, 2018 by AaronWIlson

[Binkbinkplx]

1 minute ago, AaronWIlson said:

I thought the Paradoxial sheild allows the wearer to re-roll failed save rolls and +2 to them but if you fail a save the wearer is slain? I might be thinking of the wrong item  

Also the way rend applied to re-rolls isn't ideal for a 2+ save. Say you suffer 4 wounds at rend -2, due to modifiers applying after the roll you couldn't re-roll the 2's and 3's, because they're a pass until you apply the modifier. So if you roll 1,2,3,4 you can re-roll the one, not the 2,3 and then the 2,3 fail due to the -2. 

Well I don't get to reroll fails, I have to reroll successes. so I couldn't reroll a 2 or 3 anyway. Which would be a fail yes. but stll being able to pass a Rend -2 on a 4+ (rerolling 4,5,6s or 1s) is pretty good no?

[AaronWilson]

Ahh that's make sense. It seems good  I just double checked the item, I don't know what item I was thinking of no that does seem very good

[Binkbinkplx]

Just now, AaronWIlson said:

Ahh that's make sense. It seems good  I just double checked the item, I don't know what item I was thinking of no that does seem very good

Its a very weird item to wrap my head around as well. From my understand, I only have to reroll successful rolls that would of passed my base save ( in this case, a 4+), The benefit comes from that a 2 or 3 would fail my base, so I dont have to reroll them, but then when you add the +2, They pass! This is of course against no rend. Once you add rend, its a little trickier. since at -1 Rend, a 2 is still a fail, or -2 Rend, a 3 is still a fail! The Rerolling 1s from the Sorc Lord Buff just helps keeping my chances of flat out failing on an initial roll of 1 to a minimum.

[TheOtherJosh]

25 minutes ago, Binkbinkplx said:

Its the the Chaos Lord, not the Sorcerer Lord. So unfortunately he does not get a spell I believe?

The Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore is actually 50 points less than the Chaos Lord on Manticore....

17 minutes ago, Binkbinkplx said:

if you roll a 1 into a 1 he dies

Not sure where that rule is?

Currently unmodified save rolls of 1 are failures... (Update in the core rules.) and the Paradoxical Shield was rewritten to “Re-roll successful save rolls for the bearer. In addition, add 2 to the save rolls for the bearer (after any re-rolls have been taken).”

For the Fatemaster with a Paradoxical Shield, this means that, by default:

You re-roll saves of 4+ (You don’t Reroll 1,2,3’s)

Against an opponent with rend of up to -2, and a non-flying opponent you’re looking for “anything but 1’s”.  (ie a 2+)

Against a flying opponent, with rend “-“ you are still looking for a 2+...

With someone casting Mystic Shield on him... you could even re-roll those failed rolls of 1...., and because a die can only be rerolled once ... you wouldn’t Reroll that die from Paradoxical Shield.

[Binkbinkplx]

1 minute ago, TheOtherJosh said:

The Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore is actually 50 points less than the Chaos Lord on Manticore....

 

I've looking into both. I really liked the Command Ability on the Chaos Lord to make the Warrior Blob that more killy.  I like the idea of the spell tho.  I'm just terrible with things that only hit on 6s for spells. I can't tell you how many Tzeentch Firestorms I've cast that have done absolutely nothing.

[AaronWilson]

Yes sorry I was having a brain melt down with how re-rolls & applying modifiers are the re-roll works with the shield.

So you essentially just always pick up your 2+’s and roll them again as they are all always successes until you apply modifiers. So if you mystic shield him you roll your saves, then just roll then all again and then that’s the result. My head hurts.

[Binkbinkplx]

4 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

Yes sorry I was having a brain melt down with how re-rolls & applying modifiers are the re-roll works with the shield.

So you essentially just always pick up your 2+’s and roll them again as they are all always successes until you apply modifiers. So if you mystic shield him you roll your saves, then just roll then all again and then that’s the result. My head hurts.

Lol I know exactly what you mean! I had to make myself a cheat sheet for forever on it. And Daemonic Power is gonna be my "mystic shield" reroll 1s for Hits, Wounds, and Saves! Think its really gonna boost what the Chaos Lord can do!

 

[Boss Salvage]

52 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

You mentioned : “Prince uses Treason to compel the grandhammer on the bridge to smash the lightning out of his Liberator buddy.”

Was that just a literary turn of phrase? Or were you using the “attack with their own weapon, the instead of the faq’d Treason Of Tzeentch”?

I noticed that all all of your Horrors in the pics were painted blue? And none of the pinks appeared to be pink....?

First off, thanks for reading! To your questions:

Looks like I was using the pre-FAQ Treason, which I definitely got a boost out of thanks to those big Stormcast weapons. But you know what's crazy? In my first game of AOS 2 I actually remembered the FAQ'd rules, used them to great effect, looked in my DOT book, apologized to the Sylvaneth and we used the book rules instead. Personally I prefer the FAQ version, much simpler to use and a big unit killer (if no where near as nasty as the Summoner's) instead of very situational.

Tzeentch is my blue army ;) So yes, my Pink Horrors are pink horror models on 32mm painted blue, and my single Blue Horror is a blue horror on 25mm painted blue. My heralds are also all 1988 Chaos Renegades ... painted blue.

[AaronWilson]

2 minutes ago, Binkbinkplx said:

Lol I know exactly what you mean! I had to make myself a cheat sheet for forever on it. And Daemonic Power is gonna be my "mystic shield" reroll 1s for Hits, Wounds, and Saves! Think its really gonna boost what the Chaos Lord can do!

 

Yeah that spell sits really well on him, a even better mystic shield.

Its kind of funny as there’s little point rolling your initial dice roll for your armour saves as you re-roll 1s that fail and 2-6s that pass every time ?