AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[decker_cky]

3 hours ago, Murder Pancake said:

I would really like to know why the Tzaangor Shaman isn't part of the Tzaangor Coven. I imagine it's because I'm not allowed to have nice things.  But at least I have battleline Screamers. 

If you want a battalion of tzaangor stuff including tzaangor shamans, you could take phantasmagoria battalion from the beasts book. The benefit sucks, but it's a much more flexible battalion. 

[mmimzie]

For casting spells with destiny dice are we required to spend 2 destiny dice? When reading the rule its seems that may be the case 

 

Also seems like Lords of change can't really use destiny dice any more?? As the dice can not be modified or rerolled?

Edited January 11, 2020 by mmimzie

[CountryMou3e]

13 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

For casting spells with destiny dice are we required to spend 2 destiny dice? When reading the rule its seems that may be the case 

 

Also seems like Lords of change can't really use destiny dice any more?? As the dice can not be modified or rerolled?

Correct it takes two destiny dice if it's a two dice action. Will be the same for charges!

I'm sure mastery of magic isn't classed as modifying the dice. 

[Tobjen99]

Hi, I wonder how the tzangores are in the new battletome?

I wished they got their own coven, but sadely they did not. 

 

[Atelus]

I just picked up the Tzeentch half of the Aether Wars box. Aside from some dallying with Slaves to Darkness, I've played primarily Tzeentch for a while but still building up my collection and I haven't had many of the tzaangors on discs up to now. I have 3 Skyfires already, which I've quite liked in various lists, but I don't have and haven't used Enlightened. 

So given I've got 3 Skyfires, what suggestions does anyone have for the layout of the 6 tzaangors on discs that come in the Aether Wars box? Should I roll hard with 9 Skyfires? Build 6 Enlightened and keep my Skyfires in their sort of small unit assassination roll? 3 of each and have a 6 Skyfire option but only 3 Enlightened? Just curious what others with more experience think. 

[mmimzie]

2 minutes ago, Tobjen99 said:

Hi, I wonder how the tzangores are in the new battletome?

I wished they got their own coven, but sadely they did not. 

 

Most melee stuff will find Thier biggest assistance in beast of chaos or slaves to darkness endless spells.

 

From tzneetch the +1 attack agenda is relatively easy to get  and last the whole game. Then we have the sigil endless spell for more damage buffs.

 

Our powerful wizards can use geminids and treason of tzneetch to borderline neuter enemy units of thier offensive ability.

 

Fatmaster also give blanket hit rerolls which is another very strong melee buff.

 

This is where you'll find most of your melee bonuses that you won't get in beast or slaves

[Murder Pancake]

1 hour ago, decker_cky said:

If you want a battalion of tzaangor stuff including tzaangor shamans, you could take phantasmagoria battalion from the beasts book. The benefit sucks, but it's a much more flexible battalion. 

I am aware, but Phantasmagoria has basically no benefit and a higher price tag. It just seems strange that they would put the Tzaangor Coven in this book and not include the leader option. Thankfully, One drop lists aren't that important with deployment right now.

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

For casting spells with destiny dice are we required to spend 2 destiny dice? When reading the rule its seems that may be the case 

 

Also seems like Lords of change can't really use destiny dice any more?? As the dice can not be modified or rerolled?

Yes, 2 dice rolls (charges, casting, etc) require 1 destiny die each. Also, this isn't detrimental to the LoC. Destiny dice aren't modifiers as it isn't a + or -, so whatever destiny die you sit down, the other that you manually roll will match the 6 to equal 12.



Also, in case anyone is interested in seeing a Changehost\Conflag list in action:
https://youtu.be/b9XBcRtIykc

Just a warning that some stuff is wrong, but all in all it's rather minimal I think.. haven't finished it yet but worth a watch\skim through.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Gwendar

[MattyP]

10 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Yes, 2 dice rolls (charges, casting, etc) require 1 destiny die each. Also, this isn't detrimental to the LoC. Destiny dice aren't modifiers as it isn't a + or -, so whatever destiny die you sit down, the other that you manually roll will match the 6 to equal 12.
 

unfortunately the new update has changed this and when making a 2 dice roll (i.e. casting) and you want to use DD, you must use 2 DD for the roll instead of rolling one and using DD for one. 

[Sinfullyvannila]

I ran my list today. Blood and Glory vs Ironjawz. 9 Enlightened did phenomenally well. Took out a unit of Gore Gruntas on the first turn and ‘ardboyz and Brutes and a Warboss on the third. Then two more heroes before the end of the game.

The Icon of Tzeentch worked very well too. It was as I predicted, very easy to capitalize on it with minimal risk. Got +1 attacks on the first turn, getting my Enlightened up to 5/6 attacks for Spears, 4 for Beaks and D3+2 for the discs. Not a must bring, but definitely not “lol trash cuz possible drawback”.

Unfortunatley I couldn’t get the Simulacrum or Dirgehorn into play. I only successfully casted 8 spells that game.

The Hosts Arcanum performed well. I was able to auto-unbind Hand of Gork on the first turn and Destiny Dice it on the second. And my free Screamers won a major victory for me in the top of the 5th.

20 Acolytes ended up doing about 8 damage to some Ardboyz and Brutes and folded to a Mawcrusha. They actually got all their spells off so if my other wizards could have pulled their weight I could have won earlier or held off the Mawcrusha another turn. Happy about the points I spent.

Lost my Pinks to battleshock. Expect it if they aren’t near your General.

Also lost my Magister to spawndom in the 5th after rolling 4 straight 1s.

Fantastic game. I had a blast. Tzaangors heavy list performed way better than I expected given their vacuum nerfs and without running Battalions or a Coven that adds value to them(I used to think the old Tzaangor Coven was borderline necessary to make them competitive with Pinks). Icon performed better than I excepted(though I think I trended lucky with it).

Edited January 12, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[mmimzie]

39 minutes ago, MattyP said:

unfortunately the new update has changed this and when making a 2 dice roll (i.e. casting) and you want to use DD, you must use 2 DD for the roll instead of rolling one and using DD for one. 

@Gwendar yeah this is my point. You must use 2 dice for these rolls, now the other destiny die changing is fine. I guess it gives you something to do with your 2s it your bring a Lord of change.  But you have to lock the whole roll using destiny dice as per the new wording is Abit different and tighter than the old ruling as it says you must use dice for 2d6 rolls.

 

It would require another faq just as before required the FAQ to turn it back.

[CountryMou3e]

1 hour ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

I ran my list today. Blood and Glory vs Ironjawz. 9 Enlightened did phenomenally well. Took out a unit of Gore Gruntas on the first turn and ‘ardboyz and Brutes and a Warboss on the third. Then two more heroes before the end of the game.

The Icon of Tzeentch worked very well too. It was as I predicted, very easy to capitalize on it with minimal risk. Got +1 attacks on the first turn, getting my Enlightened up to 5/6 attacks for Spears, 4 for Beaks and D3+2 for the discs. Not a must bring, but definitely not “lol trash cuz possible drawback”.

Unfortunatley I couldn’t get the Simulacrum or Dirgehorn into play. I only successfully casted 8 spells that game.

The Hosts Arcanum performed well. I was able to auto-unbind Hand of Gork on the first turn and Destiny Dice it on the second. And my free Screamers won a major victory for me in the top of the 5th.

20 Acolytes ended up doing about 8 damage to some Ardboyz and Brutes and folded to a Mawcrusha. They actually got all their spells off so if my other wizards could have pulled their weight I could have won earlier or held off the Mawcrusha another turn. Happy about the points I spent.

Lost my Pinks to battleshock. Expect it if they aren’t near your General.

Also lost my Magister to spawndom in the 5th after rolling 4 straight 1s.

Fantastic game. I had a blast. Tzaangors heavy list performed way better than I expected given their vacuum nerfs and without running Battalions or a Coven that adds value to them(I used to think the old Tzaangor Coven was borderline necessary to make them competitive with Pinks). Icon performed better than I excepted(though I think I trended lucky with it).

Sounds awesome , what was the full list ?

[MattyP]

playing first game with new BT tomorrow (and first game in a few months too lol)

it's 1K game and i'm going to try some things out and see how they do 

I'm thinking of taking the following:

Eternal Conflagration

Changeling

Herlad on Disc

Pinks 20

Flamers 3 (only own this many currently)

....this puts me at 770 pts and i'm thinking of taking either 10 more pinks, or another  hero and screamers...Looking for thoughts and feedback. Not trying to take a super competitive list just something with good synergy

[Neffelo]

3 minutes ago, MattyP said:

playing first game with new BT tomorrow (and first game in a few months too lol)

it's 1K game and i'm going to try some things out and see how they do 

I'm thinking of taking the following:

Eternal Conflagration

Changeling

Herlad on Disc

Pinks 20

Flamers 3 (only own this many currently)

....this puts me at 770 pts and i'm thinking of taking either 10 more pinks, or another  hero and screamers...Looking for thoughts and feedback. Not trying to take a super competitive list just something with good synergy

3 Enlightend on Disc leaves you with 50 pts for a command point or endless spell.

I don't know your collection, so It's kind of hard to know for sure. 

[Sinfullyvannila]

On 1/10/2020 at 6:59 PM, Sinfullyvannila said:

The Hosts Arcanum

Arcanite Cabal 140

Fatemaster 120 points. General; Trait: Changecoven Trait Artifact: Secret Eater

Magister(Foot) 100 Shield of Fate

Tzaangor Shaman 150; Arcane Suggestion 

2x10 Kairic Acolytes with Shields 200

20 Tzaangor with Shields 360

9 Tzaangor Enlightened 540

Gaunt Summoner on Foot 240 Artifact: Changecoven Artifact Spell: Glimpse the Future

Doomblast Dirghorn 50 

Buning Sigil of Tzeentch 40

Daemonic Simulacrum 50

Points: 1990

@CountryMou3e

Edited January 12, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[Donut Assassin]

6 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

I ran my list today. Blood and Glory vs Ironjawz. 9 Enlightened did phenomenally well. Took out a unit of Gore Gruntas on the first turn and ‘ardboyz and Brutes and a Warboss on the third. Then two more heroes before the end of the game.

The Icon of Tzeentch worked very well too. It was as I predicted, very easy to capitalize on it with minimal risk. Got +1 attacks on the first turn, getting my Enlightened up to 5/6 attacks for Spears, 4 for Beaks and D3+2 for the discs. Not a must bring, but definitely not “lol trash cuz possible drawback”.

Unfortunatley I couldn’t get the Simulacrum or Dirgehorn into play. I only successfully casted 8 spells that game.

The Hosts Arcanum performed well. I was able to auto-unbind Hand of Gork on the first turn and Destiny Dice it on the second. And my free Screamers won a major victory for me in the top of the 5th.

20 Acolytes ended up doing about 8 damage to some Ardboyz and Brutes and folded to a Mawcrusha. They actually got all their spells off so if my other wizards could have pulled their weight I could have won earlier or held off the Mawcrusha another turn. Happy about the points I spent.

Lost my Pinks to battleshock. Expect it if they aren’t near your General.

Also lost my Magister to spawndom in the 5th after rolling 4 straight 1s.

Fantastic game. I had a blast. Tzaangors heavy list performed way better than I expected given their vacuum nerfs and without running Battalions or a Coven that adds value to them(I used to think the old Tzaangor Coven was borderline necessary to make them competitive with Pinks). Icon performed better than I excepted(though I think I trended lucky with it).

Save destiny dice for battle shock rolls. Once you use a destiny dice the roll can’t be modified. So even if you lost a total of 20 horrors, if you use a “2” destiny die, then you you pass because you don’t subtract 20 from the roll.

[Sinfullyvannila]

11 minutes ago, Donut Assassin said:

Save destiny dice for battle shock rolls. Once you use a destiny dice the roll can’t be modified. So even if you lost a total of 20 horrors, if you use a “2” destiny die, then you you pass because you don’t subtract 20 from the roll.

Oh, nice. I did have a 2 left at the end of the battle.

Since they can’t be rerolled, does that mean you can’t use them to replace the results for a reroll?

Edited January 12, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[Zplash]

2 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

 

 

10 minutes ago, Donut Assassin said:

Save destiny dice for battle shock rolls. Once you use a destiny dice the roll can’t be modified. So even if you lost a total of 20 horrors, if you use a “2” destiny die, then you you pass because you don’t subtract 20 from the roll.

Sounds not as intented to me... 

Don't know if you can pass the battleshock subtracts with that logic. 

[Sinfullyvannila]

I think that’s exactly what the intent is. 

[The_Dudemeister]

I never thought about that rule in terms of battle shock. But rules as written, it should be indeed so. For reference here are the wordings:

Destiny Dice:

Quote

In addition, any rolls that have been replaced count as unmodified rolls and cannot be re-rolled or modified further.

Battleshock:

Quote

If the modified battleshock roll is greater than the unit’s modified Bravery characteristic, the battleshock test has been failed. If the test is failed, for each point by which the modified roll exceeds the unit’s modified Bravery characteristic, one model in that unit must flee.

So while your Bravery can still be modified, for example -1 from spooky Skellingtons or whatever, a 4 from your Destiny Dice will be your final result of the battleshock roll, no matter how many models you lost. And with Bravery 10 as Daemons, even against bravery bombs, basically any Destiny Dice will suffice to pass the test. Interesting

Edited January 12, 2020 by The_Dudemeister

[Zplash]

12 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

I never thought about that rule in terms of battle shock. But rules as written, it should be indeed so. For reference here are the wordings:

Destiny Dice:

Battleshock:

So while your Bravery can still be modified, for example -1 from spooky Skellingtons or whatever, a 4 from your Destiny Dice will be your final result of the battleshock roll, no matter how many models you lost. And with Bravery 10 as Daemons, even against bravery bombs, basically any Destiny Dice will suffice to pass the test. Interesting 

 

Wording may be correct.

Still talking about just the "intention" of GW, I think they missed that spot like so many others. It may we see an FAQ on that one. 

If not, I'm with you about the current wording. 

[Paniere]

16 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

Yea this was the list I was concerned about, and yes this is a major issue of balance from what myself and at least two other people in my game store has thought about.  This is the kind of list that could just kill the game from what I have seen, and kinda makes me pessimistic for AoS. But, the sky hasn't fallen yet, and I didn't build / paint 2,500 points of idoneth just to give up now.  At least this could deal with the Petrifax elite problem people have been having, but from what I see I don't know if there is a counter to this.

Kinda makes me wonder how this made it past the play testers. Everything in the book seems at least passable, but this seems like the sky is actually falling.

tried this list and found quite a few issues that math can't include. Main problem is that you need to keep at least  31 model whilly within the 9 " bubble for +1 to w . then when pinks double up i n size this become even harder.  if tou decide to split up your army in  2 separate forces, they will sub perform for lack of buffs, so you are forced to keep the big 1300pts bubble in one spot. now, in battleplans with many objectives like scorched earth where you have to spread out, this is a big issue, expecially against armies with great movement or teleports. So, in conclusion, the dmg threat is real, but not unbeatable if the opponent or the plan force a split

[Qaz]

Is this just me or the horrors' icon changed back to "return D6 slain models"?

[CountryMou3e]

40 minutes ago, Qaz said:

Is this just me or the horrors' icon changed back to "return D6 slain models"?

Good catch, previously the banner could take you over your starting model count.

[The_Dudemeister]

3 hours ago, Zplash said:

Wording may be correct.

Still talking about just the "intention" of GW, I think they missed that spot like so many others. It may we see an FAQ on that one. 

If not, I'm with you about the current wording. 

True, the good old RAW (rules as written) vs. RAI (Rules as intended). I think I'll wait untill the first FAQ update untill I play it that way. It's quite powerful and would also heavily devalue the Brimstone Familiar artefact that a Guild of summoners hero must take.

But not gonna lie, I hope it's intended. 😋