AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Dreadmund]

2 hours ago, Smashin' said:

Well consider this: 8 out of 10 pinks die summoning forth 16 blues, you use a destiny dice or roll a lucky 1 on the battleshock to bring some back and later risk the spell to bring more back, now you are forced to kill off the pinks first which will put you over the expected 20 blues. (no limit on the blues you create from splitting that I can see)

So it's probably worth having the extra, you can of course just opt for the 5+ roll to deal 1 mortal wound to an enemy unit but why? it's so bad... add 4 more wounds to your tarpit instead. *GW rubbing it's hands together* "Just as planned"

At least I don't have to buy more pinks.

[AverageBoss]

6 hours ago, Cambot1231 said:

A little food for thought... Flamers get buffed by an Exalted flamer nearby.... The burning chariot of Tzeentch has the EXALTED FLAMERS Key word.  Would it be better to just upgrade the exalted to the burning chariot for buffing your units of flamers? The extra movement , fly over abilities, and ray bites might be worth it 

I personally don't think the Chariot gains enough for the the extra 50 points. Sure, it gets some extra upgrades as you mentioned, plus 2 extra wounds. But it gains an immensely larger footprint, becoming much harder to place and almost impossible to hide. I think it needed a bit more durability to offset those negatives for the extra 50 points.

[BillyOcean]

4 hours ago, Malakithe said:

 but a list with good use of Acolytes is eluding me.

I share your desire to get the most of the acolytes. Easily my favorite basic models in the range, and I love the new warscroll and think they're quite well balanced at 100pts. The list below is what I've come up with, let me know what you think!

• Pyrofane Cult
• Lord of Change, General, -1 to hit by shooting trait (Pyrofane), zappy stick artefact (Pyrofane) - 380
• Gaunt Summoner - 240
• Blue Scribes - 120
• Fatemaster - 120
• 30 Acolytes - 300
• 10 Acolytes - 100
• 10 Acolytes - 100
• 6 Enlightened on Disc - 360
• Spell Portal - 70
• Burning Sigil - 40
• Witchfyre Coven - 160
• TOTAL 1990pts; 5 drops

The cult choice and witchfyre portion of the list builds itself I think. Pyrofane bumps all the shooting to 3s/3s and the 30 block hopefully gets to shoot in the hero phase, meaning that I'm putting out 80 quality shots per turn at medium range. The disc enlightened provide the main combat threat, with the mobility to apply the power where necessary. I'm always going to save destiny dice that sum to 9 to use for their charge, so they can get +1 attack to all their profiles. The main change I'd consider to this portion of the list is switching to 10,20,20 acolytes to give more options for the hero phase shooting, if my opponents are finding it too easy to manage the threat range of the single 30 block. 

As for character choices, there are two that directly synergize with the Witchfyre Acolytes. First, the Fatemaster with his command ability can really amp up the shooting from the 30 block, and seeing as it triggers in the hero phase it will give rerolls to both their hero phase and shooting phase attacks. He can also charge in with the Enlightened, making it much less important to wait for them to hit second and thereby mitigating their one drawback. Second, the Blue Scribes help all of my Acolytes get their -1 rend spell without committing destiny dice. In addition to making all the other casting more reliable and helping me rack up the summon points. They such a force multiplier that I can't see leaving home without them.

Then I have two generically good character choices. Lord of Change with his trusty spell portal is an absolute sniper - he focuses on taking out support characters with Infernal Gateway, and now that he can dispel the portal for free when he needs to reposition, it feels much more worthy of its 70pts. The Pyrofane trait (-1 to hit) makes him more survivable in the unfavorable shooting matchup, and he's by far the best suited characterize to use the Pyrofane artefact. If I can keep him him in the Fatemaster bubble for a couple of turns, then I can reroll all the non-6s to hit, fishing for more 6s. With an average of 7 attacks and rerolls, he's kicking out 2d3 or 3d3 mortals at 18" in the shooting phase. In other words, his shooting attack has become a Storm of Shemteck, which is super good. And then Gaunt Summoner - at his current points cost, why not? 10 pinks screening the acolytes will go a long way towards keeping their shots flying further into the game.

I had 50 points left, which could easily be any medium cost endless spell. I chose the Sigil because it seems fun and there are a couple of game-changing effects (eg another +1 attack on enlightened), albeit unreliable. There are likely more optimal choices, and it could even be an extra command point given that LoC and Fatemaster both have command abilities that I'll want most turns. Plus I'll probably want to keep 1CP in the pocket in case the 30 block of acolytes takes major damage. At this point, I'm not sure what to do with the extra artefact - suggestions are welcome. I'm leaning towards something to keep the Fatemaster alive given that his command ability is so clutch and he'll likely be getting into the thick of it alongside the enlightened.

 

[GeneralZero]

As you aim to summon a LoC soon, why not putting in your list kairos in place of the actual LoC for only 20pts more? You get a better fighter, one more spell and overall a more solid army. The LoC will arrive first turn probably, giving you Kairos + LoC fulling loaded T2 for an epic  Hero phase!

[BillyOcean]

15 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

As you aim to summon a LoC soon, why not putting in your list kairos in place of the actual LoC for only 20pts more? You get a better fighter, one more spell and overall a more solid army. The LoC will arrive first turn probably, giving you Kairos + LoC fulling loaded T2 for an epic  Hero phase!

Not sure if that was intended for my list above, or another one? But my list doesn't intend to summon any LoCs - I'm using the shooty acolyte cult, not the summoning one. I'll likely be using summon points to pop out blues for objectives or an exalted if something needs to get shot. I prefer LoC to Kairos in my list because he can get the -1 to hit trait and zappy stick artefact.

If your comment was intended for someone else, plz ignore me! 😀 

[MitGas]

1 hour ago, BillyOcean said:

I share your desire to get the most of the acolytes. Easily my favorite basic models in the range, and I love the new warscroll and think they're quite well balanced at 100pts. The list below is what I've come up with, let me know what you think!

• Pyrofane Cult
• Lord of Change, General, -1 to hit by shooting trait (Pyrofane), zappy stick artefact (Pyrofane) - 380
• Gaunt Summoner - 240
• Blue Scribes - 120
• Fatemaster - 120
• 30 Acolytes - 300
• 10 Acolytes - 100
• 10 Acolytes - 100
• 6 Enlightened on Disc - 360
• Spell Portal - 70
• Burning Sigil - 40
• Witchfyre Coven - 160
• TOTAL 1990pts; 5 drops

The cult choice and witchfyre portion of the list builds itself I think. Pyrofane bumps all the shooting to 3s/3s and the 30 block hopefully gets to shoot in the hero phase, meaning that I'm putting out 80 quality shots per turn at medium range. The disc enlightened provide the main combat threat, with the mobility to apply the power where necessary. I'm always going to save destiny dice that sum to 9 to use for their charge, so they can get +1 attack to all their profiles. The main change I'd consider to this portion of the list is switching to 10,20,20 acolytes to give more options for the hero phase shooting, if my opponents are finding it too easy to manage the threat range of the single 30 block. 

As for character choices, there are two that directly synergize with the Witchfyre Acolytes. First, the Fatemaster with his command ability can really amp up the shooting from the 30 block, and seeing as it triggers in the hero phase it will give rerolls to both their hero phase and shooting phase attacks. He can also charge in with the Enlightened, making it much less important to wait for them to hit second and thereby mitigating their one drawback. Second, the Blue Scribes help all of my Acolytes get their -1 rend spell without committing destiny dice. In addition to making all the other casting more reliable and helping me rack up the summon points. They such a force multiplier that I can't see leaving home without them.

Then I have two generically good character choices. Lord of Change with his trusty spell portal is an absolute sniper - he focuses on taking out support characters with Infernal Gateway, and now that he can dispel the portal for free when he needs to reposition, it feels much more worthy of its 70pts. The Pyrofane trait (-1 to hit) makes him more survivable in the unfavorable shooting matchup, and he's by far the best suited characterize to use the Pyrofane artefact. If I can keep him him in the Fatemaster bubble for a couple of turns, then I can reroll all the non-6s to hit, fishing for more 6s. With an average of 7 attacks and rerolls, he's kicking out 2d3 or 3d3 mortals at 18" in the shooting phase. In other words, his shooting attack has become a Storm of Shemteck, which is super good. And then Gaunt Summoner - at his current points cost, why not? 10 pinks screening the acolytes will go a long way towards keeping their shots flying further into the game.

I had 50 points left, which could easily be any medium cost endless spell. I chose the Sigil because it seems fun and there are a couple of game-changing effects (eg another +1 attack on enlightened), albeit unreliable. There are likely more optimal choices, and it could even be an extra command point given that LoC and Fatemaster both have command abilities that I'll want most turns. Plus I'll probably want to keep 1CP in the pocket in case the 30 block of acolytes takes major damage. At this point, I'm not sure what to do with the extra artefact - suggestions are welcome. I'm leaning towards something to keep the Fatemaster alive given that his command ability is so clutch and he'll likely be getting into the thick of it alongside the enlightened.

 

I love the sound of your list. I‘m having a hard time deciding between guild of summoners or one of the shooty variants (kairics or flamers) but you are an inspiration here!

[Jackroks981]

6 hours ago, Malakithe said:

No. That was done away with a long time ago. A unit of 10 Pinks can never go above 10. Now you can constantly heal them back up to full starting strength but you cant ever go ove.

I don’t believe it was done away with. Since 2.0 abilities that “add” can take units above their starting size, it’s only “return” abilities that prevents you from going over the starting size. 

[Acid_Nine]

13 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Nothing is unbeatable.. but this is something I've been working on. Been considering switching things around but I'll need to experiment with some actual games and I'm sure the more experienced tournament Tzeentch players will have some very interesting things coming up. Basic premise is teleport 1 Exalted and the 9-unit of Flamers up the board T1 to (more-so with the help of the Fateskimmer's speed to potentially provide the Aura)  delete a unit. That said.. with their 27" threat range that may not be necessary, especially if you decide to go 2nd to attempt a double. Either way, you can cause some damage\teleport 2 Horror units onto objectives right away:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Host: The Eternal Conflagration

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Trait: Coruscating Flames (Forced trait, Daemons -1 to hit wholly within 12") 
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame (Forced artifact, 3+ W\MW reflection from melee)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Fateskimmer, Herald of Tzeentch (140)
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability (+1 to wound to Daemons wholly within 9")
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
9 x Flamers of Tzeentch (360)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

 

Yea that seems really powerful, almost Petrifax powerful. Don’t know how my humble elite-build idoneth would fair against such a threat. A unit of 9 flamers is a hard thing to withstand even with the ignored rend eels up front, and that free teleport just seems uncounterable for my list.

 

what do you think a good counter could be for this list?

 

[Grotruk]

I was thinking about a similar list with "summoner way"

• Guild of summoner
• Kairos - 400
• Gaunt Summoner - 240
• Ogroid - 160
• Fatemaster - 120
• 30 Acolytes - 300
• 10 Acolytes - 100
• 10 Acolytes - 100
• 6 Enlightened on Disc - 360
• Witchfyre Coven - 160
• TOTAL 1940 pts (60 pts remaining probably for any Endless spell(s) )

I would like to test the Kairos/Ogroid combo

A shame that 10 pts are missing for Spellportal which is probably a must have. Any suggestions ?

[Murder Pancake]

I really want to sit down and tinker with a Hosts Arcanum list, but haven't had the time. Definitely not a competitive player; screamers are among my favorite models, and now I can run them as battleline.

In the meantime, my Tzaangor are finally starting to get based. So that's a bonus.

[AverageBoss]

On my end I am looking at this:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner (240)
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
The Changeling (120)
Magister (100)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123

Plan would be to run it as Guild of Summoners and go for a turn 2 Lord of Change. Only thing I am not sure on is who to make the general.

[Banshee1978]

If you have the Aether Wars start set, what would be the next step to build an army around that force?  When I start a new army i prefer to have as many different units and models as possible (and still make a reasonable list) and i hate to paint too many models from one kind.:)

[AverageBoss]

1 minute ago, Banshee1978 said:

If you have the Aether Wars start set, what would be the next step to build an army around that force?  When I start a new army i prefer to have as many different units and models as possible (and still make a reasonable list) and i hate to paint too many models from one kind.:)

Assuming its for 2,000 points.  You will need 3 battleline units. since the box comes with none. You will want a Tzaangor shaman to buff the disk riders. And you will want Chaos Spawn for the Magister.

[Gwendar]

2 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

Yea that seems really powerful, almost Petrifax powerful. Don’t know how my humble elite-build idoneth would fair against such a threat. A unit of 9 flamers is a hard thing to withstand even with the ignored rend eels up front, and that free teleport just seems uncounterable for my list.

 

what do you think a good counter could be for this list?

I mean, the shooting is decent but CoS can put out far more (Like, 20 Irondrakes fully buffed are doing 2 to 3 times as much) and I wouldn't compare it to PE really, and that's coming from an OBR player. On average, the 9 Flamers + 1 Exalted combined are going to be doing ~27 damage against a 4+ save if shooting at a 10+ model unit and have the +1 to wound aura nearby.. and that doesn't count if you bring a Fatemaster for RR hits or use the RR 1's CA.

I dunno, I think it will be alright but I don't see it having longevity in the competitive scene, but maybe I'm wrong. The one thing it has going for it is the fact you teleport anywhere and not just the board edge, but CoS\Skaven using Bridge are generally more threatening I've found.. but those can be pre-measured to negate what can be hit. The only thing (that I recall) with 2 free teleports per turn on the same level is Seraphon and, well... there isn't much there that I find threatening.

[Sinfullyvannila]

4 hours ago, BillyOcean said:

I share your desire to get the most of the acolytes. Easily my favorite basic models in the range, and I love the new warscroll and think they're quite well balanced at 100pts. The list below is what I've come up with, let me know what you think!

• Pyrofane Cult
• Lord of Change, General, -1 to hit by shooting trait (Pyrofane), zappy stick artefact (Pyrofane) - 380
• Gaunt Summoner - 240
• Blue Scribes - 120
• Fatemaster - 120
• 30 Acolytes - 300
• 10 Acolytes - 100
• 10 Acolytes - 100
• 6 Enlightened on Disc - 360
• Spell Portal - 70
• Burning Sigil - 40
• Witchfyre Coven - 160
• TOTAL 1990pts; 5 drops

The cult choice and witchfyre portion of the list builds itself I think. Pyrofane bumps all the shooting to 3s/3s and the 30 block hopefully gets to shoot in the hero phase, meaning that I'm putting out 80 quality shots per turn at medium range. The disc enlightened provide the main combat threat, with the mobility to apply the power where necessary. I'm always going to save destiny dice that sum to 9 to use for their charge, so they can get +1 attack to all their profiles. The main change I'd consider to this portion of the list is switching to 10,20,20 acolytes to give more options for the hero phase shooting, if my opponents are finding it too easy to manage the threat range of the single 30 block. 

As for character choices, there are two that directly synergize with the Witchfyre Acolytes. First, the Fatemaster with his command ability can really amp up the shooting from the 30 block, and seeing as it triggers in the hero phase it will give rerolls to both their hero phase and shooting phase attacks. He can also charge in with the Enlightened, making it much less important to wait for them to hit second and thereby mitigating their one drawback. Second, the Blue Scribes help all of my Acolytes get their -1 rend spell without committing destiny dice. In addition to making all the other casting more reliable and helping me rack up the summon points. They such a force multiplier that I can't see leaving home without them.

Then I have two generically good character choices. Lord of Change with his trusty spell portal is an absolute sniper - he focuses on taking out support characters with Infernal Gateway, and now that he can dispel the portal for free when he needs to reposition, it feels much more worthy of its 70pts. The Pyrofane trait (-1 to hit) makes him more survivable in the unfavorable shooting matchup, and he's by far the best suited characterize to use the Pyrofane artefact. If I can keep him him in the Fatemaster bubble for a couple of turns, then I can reroll all the non-6s to hit, fishing for more 6s. With an average of 7 attacks and rerolls, he's kicking out 2d3 or 3d3 mortals at 18" in the shooting phase. In other words, his shooting attack has become a Storm of Shemteck, which is super good. And then Gaunt Summoner - at his current points cost, why not? 10 pinks screening the acolytes will go a long way towards keeping their shots flying further into the game.

I had 50 points left, which could easily be any medium cost endless spell. I chose the Sigil because it seems fun and there are a couple of game-changing effects (eg another +1 attack on enlightened), albeit unreliable. There are likely more optimal choices, and it could even be an extra command point given that LoC and Fatemaster both have command abilities that I'll want most turns. Plus I'll probably want to keep 1CP in the pocket in case the 30 block of acolytes takes major damage. At this point, I'm not sure what to do with the extra artefact - suggestions are welcome. I'm leaning towards something to keep the Fatemaster alive given that his command ability is so clutch and he'll likely be getting into the thick of it alongside the enlightened.

 

If you aren’t going all in with the Enlightened and backing them with a Shaman you’re probably better off running a 20 unit of Tzaangors.

[BillyOcean]

8 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

If you aren’t going all in with the Enlightened and backing them with a Shaman you’re probably better off running a 20 unit of Tzaangors.

I need enlightened for the battalion. And the enlightened will be backed by the fatemaster when they go into combat, which is probably even more powerful than the Shaman buff, at least if I want to strike first. Plus, I like having a hammer unit that can jump over my screens on their discs.

Thats not to say 20 tzaangors is bad - I like them a lot, but just in a different list. And again, I'd probably make sure I had a Fatemaster around to buff them given that I tend to whiff the hit rolls on my greatblades!

[Sinfullyvannila]

25 minutes ago, BillyOcean said:

I need enlightened for the battalion. And the enlightened will be backed by the fatemaster when they go into combat, which is probably even more powerful than the Shaman buff, at least if I want to strike first. Plus, I like having a hammer unit that can jump over my screens on their discs.

Thats not to say 20 tzaangors is bad - I like them a lot, but just in a different list. And again, I'd probably make sure I had a Fatemaster around to buff them given that I tend to whiff the hit rolls on my greatblades!

I’d probably drop the LoC and bring in a Shaman and 3 enlightened then.

Not saying its better, I’m just saying that’s what I’d do(and probably will do, lol)

Or is that 2 separate units you need for the battalion? If so, nevermind.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[Landohammer]

2 hours ago, Banshee1978 said:

If you have the Aether Wars start set, what would be the next step to build an army around that force?  When I start a new army i prefer to have as many different units and models as possible (and still make a reasonable list) and i hate to paint too many models from one kind.:)

 I would recommend a Lord of Change/Kairos and a box of Kairic Acolytes. That will give you a 1000+ pt army easily and fill up your battleline, at least for 1000pts games.

If you hate painting the same models over and over then avoid Pink Horror altogether. 

[BillyOcean]

7 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Or is that 2 separate units you need for the battalion? If so, nevermind.

For the battalion you just need 3 units of Acolytes and 1 unit of Enlightened (disc or foot). I think it's a really nice battalion that can be supplemented in a lot of different ways, as long as you like Acolytes! You are right that a nice block of tzaangors would help given it some staying power, and LoC may not be necessary. But I just can't leave my big chicken on the shelf. I'll give some feedback when I've experimented with the version I posted. I'd be interested to hear how yours goes too.

Edited January 10, 2020 by BillyOcean

[Malakithe]

14 hours ago, BillyOcean said:

I share your desire to get the most of the acolytes. Easily my favorite basic models in the range, and I love the new warscroll and think they're quite well balanced at 100pts. The list below is what I've come up with, let me know what you think!

• Pyrofane Cult
• Lord of Change, General, -1 to hit by shooting trait (Pyrofane), zappy stick artefact (Pyrofane) - 380
• Gaunt Summoner - 240
• Blue Scribes - 120
• Fatemaster - 120
• 30 Acolytes - 300
• 10 Acolytes - 100
• 10 Acolytes - 100
• 6 Enlightened on Disc - 360
• Spell Portal - 70
• Burning Sigil - 40
• Witchfyre Coven - 160
• TOTAL 1990pts; 5 drops

The cult choice and witchfyre portion of the list builds itself I think. Pyrofane bumps all the shooting to 3s/3s and the 30 block hopefully gets to shoot in the hero phase, meaning that I'm putting out 80 quality shots per turn at medium range. The disc enlightened provide the main combat threat, with the mobility to apply the power where necessary. I'm always going to save destiny dice that sum to 9 to use for their charge, so they can get +1 attack to all their profiles. The main change I'd consider to this portion of the list is switching to 10,20,20 acolytes to give more options for the hero phase shooting, if my opponents are finding it too easy to manage the threat range of the single 30 block. 

As for character choices, there are two that directly synergize with the Witchfyre Acolytes. First, the Fatemaster with his command ability can really amp up the shooting from the 30 block, and seeing as it triggers in the hero phase it will give rerolls to both their hero phase and shooting phase attacks. He can also charge in with the Enlightened, making it much less important to wait for them to hit second and thereby mitigating their one drawback. Second, the Blue Scribes help all of my Acolytes get their -1 rend spell without committing destiny dice. In addition to making all the other casting more reliable and helping me rack up the summon points. They such a force multiplier that I can't see leaving home without them.

Then I have two generically good character choices. Lord of Change with his trusty spell portal is an absolute sniper - he focuses on taking out support characters with Infernal Gateway, and now that he can dispel the portal for free when he needs to reposition, it feels much more worthy of its 70pts. The Pyrofane trait (-1 to hit) makes him more survivable in the unfavorable shooting matchup, and he's by far the best suited characterize to use the Pyrofane artefact. If I can keep him him in the Fatemaster bubble for a couple of turns, then I can reroll all the non-6s to hit, fishing for more 6s. With an average of 7 attacks and rerolls, he's kicking out 2d3 or 3d3 mortals at 18" in the shooting phase. In other words, his shooting attack has become a Storm of Shemteck, which is super good. And then Gaunt Summoner - at his current points cost, why not? 10 pinks screening the acolytes will go a long way towards keeping their shots flying further into the game.

I had 50 points left, which could easily be any medium cost endless spell. I chose the Sigil because it seems fun and there are a couple of game-changing effects (eg another +1 attack on enlightened), albeit unreliable. There are likely more optimal choices, and it could even be an extra command point given that LoC and Fatemaster both have command abilities that I'll want most turns. Plus I'll probably want to keep 1CP in the pocket in case the 30 block of acolytes takes major damage. At this point, I'm not sure what to do with the extra artefact - suggestions are welcome. I'm leaning towards something to keep the Fatemaster alive given that his command ability is so clutch and he'll likely be getting into the thick of it alongside the enlightened.

 

I like the look of this. I think this will be a good template to mess around with. 

[Sinfullyvannila]

9 hours ago, BillyOcean said:

For the battalion you just need 3 units of Acolytes and 1 unit of Enlightened (disc or foot). I think it's a really nice battalion that can be supplemented in a lot of different ways, as long as you like Acolytes! You are right that a nice block of tzaangors would help given it some staying power, and LoC may not be necessary. But I just can't leave my big chicken on the shelf. I'll give some feedback when I've experimented with the version I posted. I'd be interested to hear how yours goes too.

Yeah I was thinking the LoC wouldn’t be worth its points without a couple more Daemon Wizard Heroes; but then I remembered the Rod of Nukery.

[Sinfullyvannila]

11 hours ago, Gwendar said:

I mean, the shooting is decent but CoS can put out far more (Like, 20 Irondrakes fully buffed are doing 2 to 3 times as much) and I wouldn't compare it to PE really, and that's coming from an OBR player. On average, the 9 Flamers + 1 Exalted combined are going to be doing ~27 damage against a 4+ save if shooting at a 10+ model unit and have the +1 to wound aura nearby.. and that doesn't count if you bring a Fatemaster for RR hits or use the RR 1's CA.

I dunno, I think it will be alright but I don't see it having longevity in the competitive scene, but maybe I'm wrong. The one thing it has going for it is the fact you teleport anywhere and not just the board edge, but CoS\Skaven using Bridge are generally more threatening I've found.. but those can be pre-measured to negate what can be hit. The only thing (that I recall) with 2 free teleports per turn on the same level is Seraphon and, well... there isn't much there that I find threatening.

It’s all that plus you can do it in one drop.

[Sinfullyvannila]

12 hours ago, Murder Pancake said:

I really want to sit down and tinker with a Hosts Arcanum list, but haven't had the time. Definitely not a competitive player; screamers are among my favorite models, and now I can run them as battleline.

In the meantime, my Tzaangor are finally starting to get based. So that's a bonus.

Yeah, I’m thinking about that too. 3 Auto unbinds a game is sooooo nice. I’ve recently began to realize that unbinds are probably the most effective use of Destiny Dice when opponents brought strong wizards.

[Deadkitten]

15 hours ago, Gwendar said:

The only thing (that I recall) with 2 free teleports per turn on the same level is Seraphon and, well... there isn't much there that I find threatening.

Ugh.  When you put it like that!  It seems so good on paper but what I'm struggling w is that you sort of want to go first to put yourself onto all the objectives but then getting double turned top of T2 just turns my stomach.  I don't know how effectively Changehost can clear a unit off an objective, especially a tanky buffed one.  Even if they could, they're not necessarily on the objective if their shooting was so effective that there's nothing left to charge.  

[Gwendar]

3 hours ago, Deadkitten said:

Ugh.  When you put it like that!  It seems so good on paper but what I'm struggling w is that you sort of want to go first to put yourself onto all the objectives but then getting double turned top of T2 just turns my stomach.  I don't know how effectively Changehost can clear a unit off an objective, especially a tanky buffed one.  Even if they could, they're not necessarily on the objective if their shooting was so effective that there's nothing left to charge.  

Right, and with the 1-drop you can easily dictate that a lot of the time... it's just a matter of who you're playing (the player and army) and the battleplan; lots of factors there. If you believe you can just shoot up those Flamers T1 and take an important unit off with no retaliation then great. I really think most of the time you're going to be more inclined to go 2nd and just wipe a unit off and then take the objective (assuming you get the double turn\can run onto it) with the Horrors. I think the way we should be looking at it is less on the T1 shoot a unit off and more like going 1st, getting the Horrors onto objectives and setting up\getting things in range. You risk being double-turned, but you now have a solid base that you can project your power outward (shooting) and you can effectively set yourself up either for getting the next turn or getting doubled. Again, the 27" threat range of the Flamers is pretty nice and Changehost allows you to adapt at any time which is extremely powerful.

Lets take a unit of 20 Mortek Guard (Petrifex, of course) who you let go 1st and they run onto the objective. 9 Flamers alone will be doing ~15.5 damage against their 3+, but then of course they have their 6++ to make. So yeah, you probably aren't taking them off. However, if you then include the Exalted Flamer, the +1 to wound aura (from the Fateskimmer being fast enough to potentially get in range during movement) and giving the Flamers the RR 1's to hit CA you're looking at closer to 28 damage against the 3+.. but again, before the 6++. In my list I still have another 3 Flamers and some other shooting that could potentially finish them if needed. Note that I just mathhammer... by no means do I ever attempt at any real math and I leave that to others. At some point I'm sure someone will take up the task of properly calculating the average with various buffs\unit sizes against particularly tough units with FNP saves such as Mortek 😅



Anyway, like I said.. that's what I'm building into first but I think it will change over a few games and I will be more inclined to go into a couple of other setups in my mind. I really like @BillyOcean's Pyrofane list and it would still fulfill the shooting\magic aspects I would like to retain while also having a CC presence.. which, honestly it's great to have all your bases covered if you can. 5-drops isn't bad either currently, I'd say 3-5 is about the average? But a lot of armies (like Skaven or CoS) sit at the 7-10 mark.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Gwendar