AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Grimrock]

21 minutes ago, Grotruk said:

Hey ! Didn't see the new Fatemaster ability command. Could be nice !

Came to say this, that command ability is ace. With fly and speed 16 it should be easy enough to place in a good position, so all of our ranged units are going to love him. Shame he doesn't have the daemon keyword.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Grimrock

[Sinfullyvannila]

The Dark Artisan has a New Tzeentch vs OBR battle report up.

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Grimrock said:

Came to say this, that command ability is ace. With fly and speed 16 it should be easy enough to place in a good position, so all of our ranged units are going to love him. Shame he doesn't have the daemon keyword.

Yeah.. I was really looking at it for the Flamer list I'm doing but couldn't really see it fitting in anywhere unless I take out 3 Flamers from a unit of 6.. which may be worth it as most of the damage will be coming from teleporting one of the Exalted + 6x Flamer units together.

Again, "I don't math too good" but it seems 25 shots (1x6 Flamers and 1 Exalted) would be ~26 damage against a 4+ with him nearby and Aura of Mutability. Without him it's closer to 19 damage. I could directly lower the other 6-unit of Flamers down to 3, which would cut their damage in half but.. I suppose the extra damage coming from the Fatemaster's CA would make it a higher gain throughout the course of the game.

Of course... it does require a CA and I really want to save those as much as possible for Inspiring Presence and +1 to cast from the LoC.. so overall I'm not sure if it's the right pick for my list but I can totally see him working in others that are less worried about those 2 things 😅

[Sinfullyvannila]

3 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

So Flamers are buffed by the Exalted Flamer keyword, which the Burning Chariot also has. Though I think +5 move, +2 wounds, super lackluster melee, and a MUCH larger and harder to place/hide profile is nowhere near worth the extra 50 points.

I think the 50 points is a hard sell, especially considering that CPs are now critical in a Daemon army beyond Beacon of sorcery; but you are underselling them. They get their Wake of Fire on 2+ for D3 mortal wounds and they have an improved melee profile against monsters. I think what you’re supposed to do with them is fly over a leader and their covering units and hit them with your ranged weapon without suffering from Look out Sir! and finish also finish off monster units that had been softened up.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[Forrix]

5 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

I'd rather have 50 wounds worth of Horrors for 200 points than 20 wounds worth of Chaos Warriors for the same price.. and I get a spellcast, shooting, etc from the Horrors as well.

Same here....except 50 wounds of horrors cost $100 ($30 PH+ 2 boxes of blues and brimstones for $35) and involves 50 models (though nice and fast to paint).

[mmimzie]

1 minute ago, Forrix said:

Same here....except 50 wounds of horrors cost $100 ($30 PH+ 2 boxes of blues and brimstones for $35) and involves 50 models (though nice and fast to paint).

Well technically you can Auto kill the blues and brings as you put them down to make it cheaper.

[AverageBoss]

1 minute ago, mmimzie said:

Well technically you can Auto kill the blues and brings as you put them down to make it cheaper.

All pinks must be killed first. So you will never remove blues/brims until all pinks are gone. So there is no way around it, unless you go for the alternative chance at a mortal wound rule.

[mmimzie]

4 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

All pinks must be killed first. So you will never remove blues/brims until all pinks are gone. So there is no way around it, unless you go for the alternative chance at a mortal wound rule.

Yeah just saw the full warscrolls are up.  

Edited January 6, 2020 by mmimzie

[Magnus The Blue]

The more I think about it, the more I think units of 20 pinks, in The Eternal Conflagration with change host battalion are just savage.  With no support, if their spell goes off, they have 60 shots, 3+/4+/-1 and 100 wounds.  So they are dealing nearly as much damage as 6 flamers and an exaulted but over 6 times the wounds (400 v 340 points)!  Sure they are slow and short ranged but changecult solves that (mostly).  Buff them.with a fate master and/or aura of mutability and things get really silly.  Tasty

 

And once you start killing them they get more shots! 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Magnus The Blue

[Bence]

Hy! Maybe a silly question, but daemon heroes also gaining the buff from the locus? For example a changeling in the back of the enemy recieves the locus and can pukish misdirect an enemy for an extra - 1 to hit? 

[mmimzie]

2 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

The more I think about it, the more I think units of 20 pinks, in The Eternal Conflagration with change host battalion are just savage.  With no support, if their spell goes off, they have 60 shots, 3+/4+/-1 and 100 wounds.  So they are dealing nearly as much damage as 6 flamers and an exaulted but over 6 times the wounds (400 v 340 points)!  Sure they are slow and short ranged but changecult solves that (mostly).  Buff them.with a fate master and/or aura of mutability and things get really silly.  Tasty

 

And once you start killing them they get more shots! 

I agree but I'd make a unit of 10 Pinks and 10blues. Alittle more cost effective. Likely letting you take such units in change host and let those shots fly.

Less durable more damage it's a trade off.

2 minutes ago, Bence said:

Hy! Maybe a silly question, but daemon heroes also gaining the buff from the locus? For example a changeling in the back of the enemy recieves the locus and can pukish misdirect an enemy for an extra - 1 to hit? 

In melee from the locus yes unit can be affected by Thier own aura unless it says other.

[Neffelo]

So, what's our plan against OBR? Seems like an army we may have trouble with (Coming from an OBR player) Mortek Crawlers are espeically worrying as they can pretty easily remove 10 pinks each in the shooting phase. We have a ton of easy targets for them to snipe out, heroes, flamers, etc. 

Removing blocks of 20 mortek guard also seems pretty tough. We can deal alot of mortal wounds, but we really need to remove the whole unit or they will get back to full strength in very short order.

I think we have to tie up the crawlers or take them out early on. They are just going to wreck our army, and our units are just too expensive for Mortek Crawlers to remove 200 points of our army each, every turn. 

[Nizrah]

How would you build The Pyrofane Cult army?

[Magnus The Blue]

12 minutes ago, Neffelo said:

So, what's our plan against OBR? Seems like an army we may have trouble with (Coming from an OBR player) Mortek Crawlers are espeically worrying as they can pretty easily remove 10 pinks each in the shooting phase. We have a ton of easy targets for them to snipe out, heroes, flamers, etc. 

Removing blocks of 20 mortek guard also seems pretty tough. We can deal alot of mortal wounds, but we really need to remove the whole unit or they will get back to full strength in very short order.

I think we have to tie up the crawlers or take them out early on. They are just going to wreck our army, and our units are just too expensive for Mortek Crawlers to remove 200 points of our army each, every turn. 

Honestly, I think we're as well equipped as any army to deal with them.  Crawlers are doing max 15 wounds to pinks, more likely 10, so will take 5 turns to chew through one unit, not a worry.  Some of our heros are vunerable to them but screamers are idea for tying them up (cheap, super fast, flying and reasonably hardy).

The Eternal Conflagration is perfectly setup to take out the guard, who only reroll saves in combat.  Just focus fire a unit down at a time. 

Not a walk in the park but we have to spells to take out support characters and shooting to focus fire infantry.

[Nizrah]

11 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

How would you build The Pyrofane Cult army?

I would start with something like this:

Tzeentch The Pyrofane Cult army 2k

Coven: The Pyrofane Cult

Heroes:
Battlelanes:
3x 20 Kairic Acolytes - 3x 200 - 600
Units:
6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs - 360
Battalions:
Witchfyre Coven - 160

= 1120 for stuff.

How would you finish this roster? Im pottential new player of tzeentch so idk what to do with this now

[Paniere]

The horrors' warscroll says that you must allocate wounds and Mw to pinks if there are any left.  On the other hand, when a unit fails a BS test, feeing models count as slain , no statement about allocating wounds . So I 'm guessing if I can remove brims or blues as result of a failed BS test

[Sinfullyvannila]

29 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

I would start with something like this:

Tzeentch The Pyrofane Cult army 2k

Coven: The Pyrofane Cult

Heroes:
Battlelanes:
3x 20 Kairic Acolytes - 3x 200 - 600
Units:
6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs - 360
Battalions:
Witchfyre Coven - 160

= 1120 for stuff.

How would you finish this roster? Im pottential new player of tzeentch so idk what to do with this now

Tzaangor Shaman and Balefire Taurus. 3 more enlightened in that unit so you can take full advantage of the +1 attacks and +1 save agendas on them. 3 Skyfires to threaten Heros. Gaunt Summoner and their free pinks.

I think you have 30 points left after that. So maybe The Burning Head endless spell to help fish for 6s on the Skyfires.

Instead of the Summoner you could do a foot magister, another 10 acolytes and a command point. Then Suffocating Gravetide(if my math is right).

Edited January 6, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[Grimrock]

So I'm thinking a changehost with something like 20 pinks, blue scribes, a foot Herald for the aura of mutability, a unit of screamers for mobility, an exalted flamer, and the rest flamers. Fill out battleline with Kairics and add a fatemaster in. The alpha will be bonkers if you can get everyone in the various bubbles. Then 20 pinks can tank whatever is left or you manage a double turn and just nuke the rest. I'm having trouble thinking of what could beat that army... Slaanesh would be hosed. OBR would lose synergy pieces and be left with a few unsupported units. Maybe an alpha strike from orcs getting teleported in?  Big blobs of plaguebearers maybe haha. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Grimrock

[BillyOcean]

34 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

I would start with something like this:

Tzeentch The Pyrofane Cult army 2k

Coven: The Pyrofane Cult

Heroes:
Battlelanes:
3x 20 Kairic Acolytes - 3x 200 - 600
Units:
6 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs - 360
Battalions:
Witchfyre Coven - 160

= 1120 for stuff.

How would you finish this roster? Im pottential new player of tzeentch so idk what to do with this now

Unfortunately I think you have to run the Enlightened on foot in the Witchfyre Coven (based on my reading of a grainy picture from a video). I'd like to run a similar list to the one you wrote so am pretty disappointed!

[Sinfullyvannila]

7 minutes ago, BillyOcean said:

Unfortunately I think you have to run the Enlightened on foot in the Witchfyre Coven (based on my reading of a grainy picture from a video). I'd like to run a similar list to the one you wrote so am pretty disappointed!

Ugh that’s right.

Enlightened on foot make decent backlines for Acolytes though. Their Spears have 2” so they’ll generally get the full rerolls ability.

[mmimzie]

The list I'm looking at is guild of summoners with change host

Guild of summoners

LoC general + feather charm

Fate skimmer

Fluxmaster

Changecaster

Changecaster

 

10pinks +10blues

10 pink horrors

10 pink horrors

10 brimstones

 

Change host

 

Purple sun

Pendulum

Gravetide

Bale wind vortex

 

1990

 

Debating swapping grave tide for burning head for the reroll 1s aura as the Pink's.might be enough of a wall. Both do about the same damage otherwise.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by mmimzie

[mmimzie]

The list I'm looking at is guild of summoners with change host

Guild of summoners

LoC general + feather charm

Fate skimmer

Fluxmaster

Changecaster

Changecaster

 

10pinks +10blues

10 pink horrors

10 pink horrors

10 brimstones

 

Purple sun

Pendulum

Gravetide

Bale wind vortex

 

1990

 

Debating swapping grave tide for burning head for the reroll 1s aura as the Pink's.might be enough of a wall. Both do about the same damage otherwise.

 

 

[Gwendar]

41 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

So I'm thinking a changehost with something like 20 pinks, blue scribes, a foot Herald for the aura of mutability, a unit of screamers for mobility, an exalted flamer, and the rest flamers. Fill out battleline with Kairics and add a fatemaster in. The alpha will be bonkers if you can get everyone in the various bubbles. Then 20 pinks can tank whatever is left or you manage a double turn and just nuke the rest. I'm having trouble thinking of what could beat that army... Slaanesh would be hosed. OBR would lose synergy pieces and be left with a few unsupported units. Maybe an alpha strike from orcs getting teleported in?  Big blobs of plaguebearers maybe haha. 

Keep in mind you're only teleporting 2 units per turn with that though.. not to say it can't be done without that as Flamers have a 27" Threat range, but any decent player will make sure the non-teleporting Flamer group will be out of range of anything important.

1 hour ago, Magnus The Blue said:

The more I think about it, the more I think units of 20 pinks, in The Eternal Conflagration with change host battalion are just savage.  With no support, if their spell goes off, they have 60 shots, 3+/4+/-1 and 100 wounds.  So they are dealing nearly as much damage as 6 flamers and an exaulted but over 6 times the wounds (400 v 340 points)!  Sure they are slow and short ranged but changecult solves that (mostly).  Buff them.with a fate master and/or aura of mutability and things get really silly.  Tasty

 

And once you start killing them they get more shots! 

Yeah.. I've ordered the list I posted a page back but I'm totally in with making those 2 Horror units go up from 10 to 20. The problem I tend to face when building out that list is hitting the tax on Changehost while still keeping things relevant..it could be solved a bit by splitting the Flamers into units of 3 but teleporting 2 units a turn makes that detrimental to their damage. 

However..  with 20 Pinks you're looking at ~23 damage against a 4+ on average with all the buffs you described, so just shooting them up the board could be worthwhile. I would want to put them on objectives for obvious reasons, but at the same time having them tie up their frontline while you blast it with Heroes\Flamers sitting on objectives instead could be great depending on the matchup. Those strategies only work against some of course 😉

[Hannibal]

Hi,

 

just a short question: I read somewhere that Flamers can be battleline now. Which of the Covens offer that rule? Can this be combined with the Changehost Battalion?

[mmimzie]

4 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Keep in mind you're only teleporting 2 units per turn with that though.. not to say it can't be done without that as Flamers have a 27" Threat range, but any decent player will make sure the non-teleporting Flamer group will be out of range of anything important.

Yeah.. I've ordered the list I posted a page back but I'm totally in with making those 2 Horror units go up from 10 to 20. The problem I tend to face when building out that list is hitting the tax on Changehost while still keeping things relevant..it could be solved a bit by splitting the Flamers into units of 3 but teleporting 2 units a turn makes that detrimental to their damage. 

However..  with 20 Pinks you're looking at ~23 damage against a 4+ on average with all the buffs you described, so just shooting them up the board could be worthwhile. I would want to put them on objectives for obvious reasons, but at the same time having them tie up their frontline while you blast it with Heroes\Flamers sitting on objectives instead could be great depending on the matchup. Those strategies only work against some of course 😉

If your dropped change host you could just take the bridge endless spell. Then you aren't locked into change host and can still sling shot models up the table

 

..... Maybe I should do that.