AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[Honk]

2 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

PS: do you think that I can use my vargheist as COUNT AS flayers

I have all my flayers as „vargheists“ because I like the head more...

 

for a good horror feast day: 

(totally untested and unoptimised)

haunter (General, dark wizardry); Gkozd; AAR; varghulf

2x6 horrors, 20/10 ghouls

chalice for 1900 total...

idea is transformation and spirit host for speed, chalice for extra healing, ferocious hunger or the GkoZd signature spell for rerolling all the dice (hit&wound) then going on a feast day...

the courtier/varghulf should support both horror units, summoning in a second varghulf from the gkozd...

aar summons as needed, maybe denied flank or something during set up.

 

[Gwendar]

4 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Well, tbh, the ZD is here because my first buy of FEC was a SC to fill in my LoN army with a mounted ZD (vampire) and an associated  3 vargheist. lol

PS: do you think that I can use my vargheist as COUNT AS flayers (will be paint"ed the very same colors/scheme?

Well yeah, I only have a ZD as I was building it before the updates and had a different plan in mind. So now I have him just sitting here, waiting for Contrast to come out before he starts showing up at 1750-2k.

That question really just depends on your opponent (or TO if you go to tournaments) but I use Vargheist backs to make up for the missing model I get when I have to make a Courtier. I don't use the heads though.. really don't care for them.

[Finklelord]

Hey everyone! 

Back again for a couple of list ideas for a doubles tournament that a friend and I are going to. No idea what to expect since we are traveling for the tournament and don't know the meta. 

**We are also very very new to AoS**

1000 Points Each.

I don't know what he will be bringing at the moment but he runs Sylvaneth. I assume something similar to this:

Spoiler

 

Treelord Ancient

Branchwraith/wych

Hunters

Dryads

Trees

 

I have two ideas but unsure what to run.

List #1

Spoiler

 

Blisterskin

Abhorrant Archregent

-Hellish Orator

-Miasmal Shourd

Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist

-Eye of Hysh

-Spectral Host

Flayers x3

Flayers x3

Chalice 

 

List #2

Spoiler

 

Crypt Infernal Courtier

-Dark Acoylte

-The Feast Day

Abhorrant Archregent

-The Dermal Robe

Flayers x3

Flayers x3

Flayers x3

Deadwatch

Chalice

 

General idea for me was to be very aggressive and summon ghouls on the flanks to harass and take objectives. 

Again very new to the game so any and all suggestions are welcome.

 

I have roughly these models to play with:

Spoiler

 

15 Flayers

2x AAR

GKoTG

Crypt Infernal 

30 Ghouls

3 Horrors*

 

*3 of my Flayers have no arms so they can go either way

 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Finklelord

[Honk]

6 hours ago, Finklelord said:

I have two ideas but unsure what to run.

I‘m sorry to say, that I don‘t like min squat flayers. Imo they don’t really get enough traction to pull things off. Not enough attacks to wipe things off the board, not enough wounds to survive a countercharge, not enough models to contest objectives... 6 flayers are my goto size.

AARs are superstrong at <1k, so maybe 

Infernal (General), 2AARs, 6Flayers, 10ghouls, Chalice...feast day 1k/1k

-> lots of magic (4 casts), summons a varghulf and 20 ghouls for objectives, feast day manages your CP (throne?!), spirit host and transformation for the speed buff. With varghulf,  infernal and chalice that flayer squat should be pretty sturdy.

On the other hand, the gkotg at 1k is a murder machine too... but then I‘d stick him into gristlegore, just to keep him extra save (that’s half your list and kurnoth can still shoot him off)

gkotg, 2aar, 2x10ghouls

but that leaves all the heavy lifting to your king. You could summon 2x3 knights and a varghulf to pressure the backlines and/or objectives.

Sylvaneth and their Woods have pretty high saves and nice mobility, the hunters are scary as is the treelord (2+ rerolling 1s?!; pretty high dmg) 

 

those are my 2ct... good luck, have fun!!!

[Finklelord]

8 hours ago, Honk said:

I‘m sorry to say, that I don‘t like min squat flayers.

Thanks for the advice! I've only played them as 3 so far. They don't last long if someone gets the double turn on them and I can't muster. 

I like the look of double AAR and a bigger unit of Flayers. Would giving the Infernal the Dark Acolyte trait help more? Being able to cast potentially 5 spells a turn(Chalice, Spirit, Transformation,  Hunger and maybe Mystic Shield?), and maybe the Robe to one of the AAR's. 

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Finklelord said:

Would giving the Infernal the Dark Acolyte trait help more?

Now we are getting into deep water... with 4 casts and the dermal robe on one AAR, maybe cruel taskmaster is the better way for your infernal. With that, you don’t have to position a summoned varghulf besides him, but he could support ghouls instead. 

But 5 casts and 2 with +1 ... ferocious, black hunger, host and transformation then the chalice. And since the infernal counts as a wizzard, you could pick a lorespell too.

tricky question, don’t really know what is best. Against Nagash or similar(tzeentch, Arkhan, anti-magic khorne) all/most of your spells will be unbound anyway, but against everybody else... seems legit

[Finklelord]

33 minutes ago, Honk said:

tricky question, don’t really know what is best. Against Nagash or similar(tzeentch, Arkhan, anti-magic khorne) all/most of your spells will be unbound anyway, but against everybody else... seems legit

I've been debating using Taskmasker too. On one hand I can buff up my Flayer unit beyond insanity. On the other I can keep them alive better with Taskmasker. 

Since my partner will have some spells I could always try and bait the opponents into dispelling his spells too (a little mean of me but it could work).

One other thought was running the Garland and helping the Flayers out, but that requires me to keep up with my fast moving group and I am not sure I want my AAR that far forward. 

Gonna have to play test this on Sunday.

Thanks for all your help!

Edited June 7, 2019 by Finklelord

[Evil Bob]

2 hours ago, Finklelord said:

I've been debating using Taskmasker too. On one hand I can buff up my Flayer unit beyond insanity. On the other I can keep them alive better with Taskmasker. 

I’ve been alternating my Crypt Infernal Courtier with Cruel Taskmaster & Dark Acolyte.  On paper having more magic certainly looks better but my fail rate on casting rolls or people unblinding says otherwise.  Whereas getting more Flayers has always been great.  It really puts the pressure on my opponents to finish off squads.  Decimated units are suddenly getting 8 or more extra dice to attack (screams are so-so).  I don’t really use the re-roll unless there is one or none successes. It has never failed to get me back at least two.

[Gwendar]

Yeah, I can testify to hating Flayers in 3's.. and I'll use that to segue into letting you all know I posted up the last 2 games for 1250 week vs Seraphon and Tzeentch. Flayers never did me any favors.

If you'll excuse me, I'm going to leave this here and go build 2 boxes of Horrors now:

 

[Alfavega]

Hey Guys,

 

i got a Question fpr the Flesh Eater courts rules.If my Ghoul King on Terrorgheist wanna use feeding frenzy.Did i need a another hero around him to use this or count the ability for himself to without a hero around him.

[Gwendar]

13 minutes ago, Alfavega said:

Hey Guys,

 

i got a Question fpr the Flesh Eater courts rules.If my Ghoul King on Terrorgheist wanna use feeding frenzy.Did i need a another hero around him to use this or count the ability for himself to without a hero around him.

Nope, he's a hero so he can use it on himself or anyone in range.

[Evil Bob]

8 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Yeah, I can testify to hating Flayers in 3's.. and I'll use that to segue into letting you all know I posted up the last 2 games for 1250 week vs Seraphon and Tzeentch. Flayers never did me any favors.

If you'll excuse me, I'm going to leave this here and go build 2 boxes of Horrors now:

Knights weren’t meant to be beat-sticks.  They are specialists and mission specific.  Horrors flanking aren’t to going to up your game.  It doesn’t help they want an abhorrent within 18”.  Twenty ghouls if the goal is beat-down and sustainability.  I only fall back on Flayers if mobility is important or I’m desperate for mortal wounds.

Deathwatch really needs to be a careful consideration even at 2k.  It draws points form monstrous hero's and maxed ghoul blobs.  In smaller games it should be considered a fluffy narrative choice.  I’ve ran it in multiplayer games with very specific missions in mind.  It will never compete with a similar eel force at the same points.

 

Keep up the battle-reps.  They’re great!  Really liking the pics.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Evil Bob

[Gwendar]

@Evil Bob Right, which is why I expect them to get blown up fairly easily either way.. but I really always expect 3 of them to do more than they do. I dunno, that's why I want to try Horrors for low-armored targets like the Enlightened as I just didn't have any built and didn't want to proxy. I know Ghoul hordes are better in more ways, but I wanted to play this army at a lower model count and am only relying on 60 Ghouls for objective purposes most of the time.

I've shut that Deadwatch idea down.. I just don't think it would work for me and your points hit that home. People have a hard time chewing through the 30-40 Ghouls, especially when Chalice and 1-2 Courtiers are up. A lot of the people in my local meta focus on the TG but forget about the Ghouls, but some are vice versa.. it really just gives me a security blanket in most battleplans that I wouldn't have with Deadwatch (although I would likely use my AAR's for 40 Ghouls). I still have a lot of thinking to do for some games as I tend to use my AAR summons T1 and there are times when I may want to just hold onto it, especially with Feast Day allowing freedom in my CP useage. 

But hey, thanks! I've messed with my format a lot over the past couple years and I try to keep them concise, yet informative with my only flair thrown in. The pictures..well, I need a better camera (using my garbage work phone) and the clarity would improve a lot for those top-down shots.

[ByronicHero]

I am also attending a 1k tournament in a while and am 100% going to be running the following with feast day if I decide to play FEC (and the GHB19 hasn't dropped):

AAR +2 spells and unbinding (Deranged)

AGKOTG (Blood Feast)

Ghouls x 10

Ghouls x 10

Horrors x 3

Chalice

I agree that units of 3 dissolve easily but 1) AGKOTG will munch almost anything an opponent can have and on the smaller tables you can hit whatever you like 2) I want the chalice in case I want to run him into larger units, making it so they have to do all 14 wounds at once 3) deranged allow me to get the horrors where they need to be a little easier and, again, on 4 x 4 tables that is plenty fast enough. I have never had to summon more ghouls in small points games, it just isn't generally necessary. With most battle plans you move fast enough and want to attack enough that you can claim any middle objectives pretty easily and then often even if your assault is dealt with you have won the VP game already. 

 

[soak314]

Hey all! I'm looking for good alternative models for the vhargulf and other courtiers in particular, for obvious reasons. I'd rather not convert, and I'm just having a really rough time finding things that fit into the bipedal, hunched over, bat monster aesthetic.

Thanks!

[Evil Bob]

1 hour ago, soak314 said:

Hey all! I'm looking for good alternative models for the vhargulf and other courtiers in particular,

You need to get your hands on the old metal sculpt.  When GW was moving over to Finecrap they were forced to do a derpy version.  I couldn’t find an extra off eBay, been considering checking out the 9th Age scene.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Evil Bob
Spelling a-c

[GeneralZero]

With ONE box of kniths/horros/flayers, you can build the 3 courtiers, 2 of them official and a bit of kit bash with the including pieces, for the wargulf. Put him on a bigger rock to differentiate him, with one of vargheit head eventually, a bit of paint differentiation, and you got a winner ;-)

Edited June 9, 2019 by GeneralZero

[daviseford]

Hey guys, I just added Flesh Eater Courts to the AoS Reminders App. 

If you haven't heard of/used AOS Reminders yet, give it a whirl - enter your army, traits, artifacts, etc, and it'll spit out a nicely printable list that you can take with you to tournaments. Very helpful for army with lots of stuff happening in each phase - like Flesh Eater Courts!

I need a favor from you guys - please go through and check out the rules and make sure I have them right. There are a LOT of rules for FEC, and I've never played them. I did my best to keep up with the battletome and errata, but please, check it out. Leave any issues here: https://github.com/daviseford/aos-reminders/issues

[Honk]

9 hours ago, daviseford said:

Leave any issues

Sorry, not signing in...

app looks cool, but:

missing special court artifacts 

fe gurish mawshard from gristlegore...

havn‘t checked the others cause I‘m lazy

[Finklelord]

With the upcoming tournament this weekend and my list finalized (thanks @Honk!) I had a few questions about FEC.

1. What types of armies do we struggle against? From my limited play I have personally struggled against higher armor multi wound models.

2. What spells should I prioritize? My thinking is Chalice and Ferocious Hunger, maybe Deranged Transformation. 

3. Best to go first or second? Most games I have played I have opted to go second simply because I want the enemy closer and I feel like I can maneuver around with the summons and the typical speed build lists I make.

4. How important are GKoTG? Don't get me wrong this guy is insane, but I can never see running more than 1 in a list do to points. I feel like he is a good alpha strike/flanking element to our lists and serves to shock the enemy and take out key units. Then die a beautiful death. 

Some of the weaknesses I have  had are surviving the late game and taking objectives. Granted most of these weaknesses are because of my play style, but I was curious if this is an overall thing with FEC.  I've found it hard to keep my boys alive when I don't get the double turn or simply position poorly anticipating getting the turn. 

I fully anticipate losing most of my games this weekend, but losing is only part of the game. Though some extra knowledge never hurt 😉

[daviseford]

13 hours ago, Honk said:

Sorry, not signing in...

app looks cool, but:

missing special court artifacts 

fe gurish mawshard from gristlegore...

havn‘t checked the others cause I‘m lazy

Hey Honk,

Appreciate the feedback! The Gurish Mawshard is available if you select the Gristlegore (Grand Court) trait. Perhaps I should also file it under the "Artifacts" dropdown!

[Honk]

17 hours ago, Finklelord said:

What types of armies do we struggle against?

Would put shooting on the list, stormcast ballista and such things. We are massively hero dependent...

alpha strike against our murder machines, sad if a Bloodthirster drops our crazy. Slaanesh looked kinda crazy too. Both have substantial summoning mid to endgame, which might backfire hard. Second Bloodthirster turn 3 will stir up your plans.

17 hours ago, Finklelord said:

What spells should I prioritize? My thinking is Chalice and Ferocious Hunger,

Yes... maybe spirit host for speed. But when in doubt  CoU and FH 

 

17 hours ago, Finklelord said:

Best to go first or second?

In theory it’s best to be able to choose the double (if really needed) than to fear it. Also the model regeneration... terms and conditions of course apply.

 

17 hours ago, Finklelord said:

How important are GKoTG?

Kinda really nice, but on a knight dependent list you might opt for double AAR with varghulf or something. Solid Horror or flayer spam needs the points. Still one of the highest damage output out there... At 2k I bring two or even three for my opponent to know that I think highly of him/her

 

17 hours ago, Finklelord said:

surviving the late game and taking objectives

Your elite lists struggles exactly with that. 6Flayers are not really destroying 20 plaguebearers fast enough to contest objectives. 

Positioning and target priority are those things you‘ll need to learn through stupid mistakes. Be very careful with your heroes, try to concentrate your damage. rushing into the foe on whole front might be funny, but annihilating one flank without serious casualties lets the game snowball downhill from there. 

Especially (iirc) your flayers should be able to outmaneuver enemies, concentrate the hurticane and then reposition for the next attack run.

extra advice, retreating is not the heroic thing, but sometimes the smart choice. You don‘t have to brawl it out into infinity with said 30 plaguebearers. Charge into them, retreat over them, then into the tasty bits...

 

and always scream „for the lady of the lake“ while rolling important dice

[amysrevenge]

22 hours ago, Finklelord said:

Some of the weaknesses I have  had are surviving the late game and taking objectives. Granted most of these weaknesses are because of my play style, but I was curious if this is an overall thing with FEC.  I've found it hard to keep my boys alive when I don't get the double turn or simply position poorly anticipating getting the turn.

I don't get to play as often as I'd like (or against as many different opponents as I'd like) but I've still never actually made it to "late game" without wiping everything out.  2 GK/TGs and a ghoul patrol basically do the trick every time (so far).

[Alfavega]

Hey guys,

 

i got a question about the gristelore command trait.the command trait say that this modell fight at the beginning of the combat phase first before the player pick there units.that means that my modell fights first(hero with this command trait) and after that i choose my first unit to fight in my turn? 

The german rules are not so perfect written...

[Evil Bob]

2 hours ago, Alfavega said:

The german rules are not so perfect written...

Wading through the English FAQs and Warhammer Community info is a nightmare.

Basically the Fight Phase has has three sections.  Start (where your General get’s to fight), During (where all the normal fights happen).  And yes on your turns your hero goes first during Start and then you pick first at the During phase.

Useful linkage.