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AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

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@ByronicHero I believe so, although it may depend on the opponent.. may need to ask to confirm.

I would worry about the AGKoTG getting focused but I mean... not many people will be bringing anything too crazy below 1k and the double attack should make quick work of nearly anything.

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Well, I'm 2 games in now and I've rolled up Sylvaneth and Nighthaunt without ever really having any trouble. Starting to get worried about finding opponents in my small-ish local group willing to test my event list...

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I want to know if the prismatic palisade and the Cadaverous Barricade  have the same base size. What do you think of the flesh-eater endless spells?

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One is longer and the other wider.  Aside the new Dwarf one is the cutest little thing you ever saw.

After two strikes on the other Death endless spells GW really turned things around with the FEC option.  In this thread there has been some discussion much farther back.  I’m happy with them.  They seem to fill in gaps.  A 40 ghoul unit holds the line extremely well with a chalice.   The barrier against a piece of blocking terrain is almost broken.

Originally I wasn’t too thrilled with the Stampede one until it started filling the role for sniping boosting heroes, it does’t hurt that it has a huge movement value. My minimum number of potential mortal wound dice has been 15 when it goes off.  Not a bad deal at 60 points.

The only thing that gets me down on endless spells is the points compete against warscroll battalions & the unit tweeks.  At 2k all three plus a battalion is about 1/8th of the points. That makes me very uncomfortable.

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On 5/3/2019 at 5:25 PM, Honk said:

Don’t know how he is supposed to cast the fec endless spells (4k army,800ally?)

my ghouls need to stand in as zombies, but there are very few usable while not min/max Nagash lists

Endless spells are not part of any faction/allegiance, you can buy them for any army :)

So in a Grand Host of Nagash Army, just pay the points for the ghoul spells and Nagash can cast them (or an allied ghoul king), but necromancers and stuff can't.

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Chalice of Ushoran won me a tournament last saturday, pretty good, right

It anchored my battle line against Skaven Skryre list, when 30 acolites and Verminlord almost destroyed my unit of 40 ghouls I came back at them with GKoZD and Chalice and returned a bunch of ghouls, everything that was later in the game was a clean up.

And it helped me against BCR with 3 thundertusks (FU stupid 21 MW a turn cow riding savages), in this game my GKoZD and 40 ghouls tanked everything with their faces, ZD returned from the grave healing from 1 to 10 or 12, can't remember due to chalice and that helped me not to give up my ground in Three Places of Power

Also it was pretty funny tournament since my GKoTG did almost nothing because everyone was so scared of him. In the first game he was permamentely -2 to hit, -2 attacks and charged on 1d6 due to Nagash having a great 10+ rolls for his debuffs, second game he took a bunch of MW from WLC and was running for cover for the rest of the game, and in the third game he killed a non-hero stonehorn and then got MWed into realm of shadows, pretty sad.

 

The list is here:

Spoiler

 

Press F to Frenzy

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast Day
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
- Artefact: Miasmatic Blade 
- Lore of Madness: Miasmal Shroud
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon (440)
- Lore of Madness: Miasmal Shroud
- Mount Trait: Razor-clawed
Abhorrant Archregent (200)
- General
- Trait: Dark Wizardy 
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe 
- Lore of Madness: Deranged Transformation
Crypt Ghast Courtier (60)

Battleline
40 x Crypt Ghouls (360)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)

Battalions
Ghoul Patrol (180)

Endless Spells
Chalice of Ushoran (40)
Cadaverous Barricade (30)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 99

 

 

I tried it because I felt like having better magic and more Frenzies rather than AFF from Gristlegore. Though I missed extra wound rolls

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Only problem I have with the stampede is the big base, really tricky to fly over a bunch of units (after set up) and then still place it somewhere. It’s probably even worse for your opponent to send it back (over his own units nonetheless). Might work pretty good for Nagash 

4 hours ago, Kaime said:

Nagash can cast them 

 

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15 hours ago, Gwendar said:

@ByronicHero I believe so, although it may depend on the opponent.. may need to ask to confirm.

I would worry about the AGKoTG getting focused but I mean... not many people will be bringing anything too crazy below 1k and the double attack should make quick work of nearly anything.

It will get focused, but it is not easy for most units to do anything meaningful through the 4+/5+/6+ saves. If you can get the charge I think you would be fine.

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1 hour ago, ByronicHero said:

it is not easy for most

Portal - Hand of Dust in my Nagash and his puppies list 🥳

thing is, gkotg is on everybodys kos-list, but meanwhile you can play the objective game. He is kinda sturdy, with triple save, regeneration and maybe chalice, but you still need to be careful. Bloodthirsters fight first too, ballista still snipe you and 0.60 cal corpsecart zombers will scratch you to pieces (or plaque monks, or whatever), skellis might implode after your charge, but 20-30 wounds still leaves zombies with enough power to spend a cp for auto pass, regenerate and grind you to dust. Above 40, they 2+\3+, with van hels, with vampires CA and if they are not blocked, they tear everything apart just by cruel statistics...

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5 hours ago, XReN said:

Chalice of Ushoran won me a tournament last saturday, pretty good, right

It anchored my battle line against Skaven Skryre list, when 30 acolites and Verminlord almost destroyed my unit of 40 ghouls I came back at them with GKoZD and Chalice and returned a bunch of ghouls, everything that was later in the game was a clean up.

And it helped me against BCR with 3 thundertusks (FU stupid 21 MW a turn cow riding savages), in this game my GKoZD and 40 ghouls tanked everything with their faces, ZD returned from the grave healing from 1 to 10 or 12, can't remember due to chalice and that helped me not to give up my ground in Three Places of Power

Also it was pretty funny tournament since my GKoTG did almost nothing because everyone was so scared of him. In the first game he was permamentely -2 to hit, -2 attacks and charged on 1d6 due to Nagash having a great 10+ rolls for his debuffs, second game he took a bunch of MW from WLC and was running for cover for the rest of the game, and in the third game he killed a non-hero stonehorn and then got MWed into realm of shadows, pretty sad.

 

The list is here:

  Hide contents

 

Press F to Frenzy

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast Day
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
- Artefact: Miasmatic Blade 
- Lore of Madness: Miasmal Shroud
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon (440)
- Lore of Madness: Miasmal Shroud
- Mount Trait: Razor-clawed
Abhorrant Archregent (200)
- General
- Trait: Dark Wizardy 
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe 
- Lore of Madness: Deranged Transformation
Crypt Ghast Courtier (60)

Battleline
40 x Crypt Ghouls (360)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)

Battalions
Ghoul Patrol (180)

Endless Spells
Chalice of Ushoran (40)
Cadaverous Barricade (30)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 99

 

 

I tried it because I felt like having better magic and more Frenzies rather than AFF from Gristlegore. Though I missed extra wound rolls

I tried a couple times Chalice - I think it is amazing against hordes of if playing hordes!

The problem is that it is attached to models killed - wish it was number of wounds of the model killed (Make sense, bigger model = more blood for the chalice hahahahha).

So, playing Gristlegore or Blisterskin and in Tournaments where your are not sure who you are gonna face up against, can make it not reliable!

Besides this problem, its effects just take place in the combat phase! Where other Predatory spell - if you lost the double turn - at least you can do an extra effect with it, with Chalice  you could lose it in the next combat phase where it would be much better (cuz you don't have control of what you want to fight with).

I see one "awesome" use for it - that it is when playing against armies that fight when killed, explodes when killed (skaven) or reflect MW (DoK), those kind of things! So you could fight against it knowing you could finish the fight full life.

TL:DR - Playing Mass Ghouls list or against Horde meta, I think it is great. Other scenarios I think it is not reliable.

 

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Posted (edited)

True, but I'm coming to think that for 40 points its worth it to take regardless, I haven't got much use from barricade or geminids this tournament, but they could have been amazing against other armies that I haven't faced (barricade would royally mess the fyreslayers and gemenids would counter nurgle with all the triggers on 6+). So it's like a tool that you can have with you for special need.

Also having up to 80 ghouls on the table helps a lot with having wounds to feed to chalice

Edited by XReN

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Posted (edited)
On 5/6/2019 at 9:14 AM, XReN said:

True, but I'm coming to think that for 40 points its worth it to take regardless, I haven't got much use from barricade or geminids this tournament, but they could have been amazing against other armies that I haven't faced (barricade would royally mess the fyreslayers and gemenids would counter nurgle with all the triggers on 6+). So it's like a tool that you can have with you for special need.

Also having up to 80 ghouls on the table helps a lot with having wounds to feed to chalice

Well... like I said, with bunch of Ghouls Chalices are amazing.

Other scenarios I don't think it is bad, just not reliable! From experience, last game playing Blisterskin as exampl, it was hard to find a bunch of opportunities that it could've work! But, well - maybe I need to test it more times!

Who knows...

Edited by Masake

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thoughts on this list?

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Gristlegore
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
- General
- Trait: Savage Strike
- Artefact: Ghurish Mawshard
- Lore of Madness: Bonestorm
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon (440)
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
- Mount Trait: Death from The Skies
Abhorrant Archregent (200)
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe
- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast
Crypt Ghast Courtier (60)

Battleline
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
20 x Crypt Ghouls (200)
20 x Crypt Ghouls (200)

Battalions
Ghoul Patrol (180)

Endless Spells
Chalice of Ushoran (40)
Corpsemare Stampede (60)

Total: 1880 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 89

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

thoughts on this list?

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Gristlegore
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
- General
- Trait: Savage Strike
- Artefact: Ghurish Mawshard
- Lore of Madness: Bonestorm
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon (440)
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
- Mount Trait: Death from The Skies
Abhorrant Archregent (200)
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe
- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast
Crypt Ghast Courtier (60)

Battleline
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
20 x Crypt Ghouls (200)
20 x Crypt Ghouls (200)

Battalions
Ghoul Patrol (180)

Endless Spells
Chalice of Ushoran (40)
Corpsemare Stampede (60)

Total: 1880 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 89

 

So - here goes my opinion:

- COURT: I wouldn't go Gristlegore without fully committing with BIG MONSTER list. You are losing a lot of potential just to buff - mainly - 1 unit (ZD is not as stronger as TG).  Going Delusion - Feast Day is better - you will spend 2 CP for summoning first turn, so you won't have enough CP for Feeding Frenzy, Feast day solve this problem.

- SPELL: Bonestorm is not good. You have better options like Monstrous Vigor and/or Miasmal Shroud - Spectal Host and Blood Feast  are both good as well and you are already using it.

- ZD: I don't like him apart from Horrors Heavy list. TG do it better - and with this change you could add another Endless Spell (Cogs will place you at 1900 and is amazing for making GKoTG re-roll failed saves and/or cast another spell).

- TRAIT: The Death from Skies trait is not that good. First due to heaving to make a 9" charge - without CoGs will be hard. -Besides this, it is easy to counter with some zone Denial (having 440pts outside the table due to not having any good place to drop it is bad). For last, ZD is weaker than TG, I see him more as a support due to its Spell plus the Missile Shot, so is not worth thinking of it as a Alpha Strike Killer.

- GHOULS: It is something that always pop up on the comments here - with ghouls, go big or go home! Use it as 10man tax for battleline or go for 40man unit with some buffs.

- GHOUL PATROL: Is good as a BATTALION that cover our "battleline tax". But without a lot of ghouls in a unit and CoGs, is hard to make that first turn charge and engaging something in the eternal Ghoul TARPIT (Ghast + Chalice + 40model).

- ENDLESS: Some say Stampede is Good, I think it is overpriced. I don't see many uses that make it worthy - but my prejudice with it made me not test - so I might be wrong.

- ARTEFACTS: I think it will be much better giving a decent artefact for the TG - Ghryph Feather Charm or Ethereal Amulet - besides the Mawshard. I know you are paying it due to Gristlegore - changing  for Delusion you could have this option. If still playing with Gristlegore, I'd change the Dermal Robe, give the TG a better artefact and use the Mawshard with the ZD or the 2nd TG.

OVERALL: It's not a bad list - I'd say its an average one. If playing Casual games you won't have any problems, but still have a lot of room for improvement.

Edited by Masake
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Regarding Terrorgheist being better than Zombie Dragon, can someone break that down for me?  It seems like they are very similar in combat, I prefer the ZD's shooting since it works even against high bravery, you can't cast the same spell twice in a turn (right?) so having 2 different signature spells could be handy, and having one of each let's you use both of their summon abilities the first turn.  So far I am running one GK on ZD, another on TG, and an Archregent - setting them up within 1" of my Charnel throne allows me to use 3 different summoning abilities the first turn (different names) so I start off with an extra Courtier, 3 more knights, and whatever the Archregent wants to call out.

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@Aleister I like having both the TG and ZD as well, for the reasons you mentioned. But to clarify the Charnel Throne ability only works for Archregent and GK on foot.

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On 5/5/2019 at 7:49 AM, Laier said:

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast Day

Leaders
Abhorrant Archregent (200)
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe 
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon (440)
- Lore of Madness: Miasmal Shroud
- Mount Trait: Horribly Resilient
Crypt Haunter Courtier (120)
- General
- Trait: Dark Acolyte 
-- Lore of Madness: Deranged Transformation

- Artefact: Medal of Madness 

Battleline
40 x Crypt Ghouls (360)
3 x Crypt Horrors (160)
3 x Crypt Horrors (160)

Battalions
Abattoir (120)

Endless Spells
Chalice of Ushoran (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105

Hey @Laier, your list is extremely similar to mine! Have you played any games with it yet? How'd they go? I haven't played a lot of games yet, so not a lot of definitive advice.

The differences between mine and yours are only artifacts and  I went with less Ghouls and more Horrors (20 ghoul, 6 horror, 3 horror). I go with more defensive artifacts on the mounted guys. They already hit super hard, but aren't super tanky. I went with Gryph Feather on one, and the chalice of heal D6 wounds on the other. Also took the re-roll damage on the bite mount trait, which got me a lot of extra wounds in the last game I played.

I went with more Horrors because they're the unit that gets augmented by the Haunter Courtier. But you're having me second guess that, 40 ghouls will get the +1 attack bonus, and better board control.

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49 minutes ago, 18121812 said:

@Aleister I like having both the TG and ZD as well, for the reasons you mentioned. But to clarify the Charnel Throne ability only works for Archregent and GK on foot.

Seriously?  That sucks, I thought a GK was a GK whether he rode on something or not (makes sense to me) but I suppose it is referring to the specific warscrolls.  Well, I may wait to build my Throne then since I have a huge backlog.

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1 hour ago, Aleister said:

Regarding Terrorgheist being better than Zombie Dragon, can someone break that down for me?  It seems like they are very similar in combat, I prefer the ZD's shooting since it works even against high bravery, you can't cast the same spell twice in a turn (right?) so having 2 different signature spells could be handy, and having one of each let's you use both of their summon abilities the first turn.  So far I am running one GK on ZD, another on TG, and an Archregent - setting them up within 1" of my Charnel throne allows me to use 3 different summoning abilities the first turn (different names) so I start off with an extra Courtier, 3 more knights, and whatever the Archregent wants to call out.

They are indeed similar - but TG takes the lead due to the following stuff:

1 - Scream: It is amazing to have an ability in your shooting phase that deals MW. Besides this, -1hit modifiers doesn't do a thing to it (You don't need to do 3 rolls - hit, wounds and save - to see the damage popping up). So - this make its shooting more reliable than ZD (Ofc sometimes you face an high Bravery army like death and wish you had ZD ahahahahha).

2 - Spell: ZD has a awesome Force Multiplier spell - but not useful in all lists. Besides this, due to being Wholly within, is tricky to place it in a way that your ZD can still engage fights and give this bonus for other units. Otherwise, the TG spell, is awesome for defensive purpose and can be use in much more lists and scenarios.

3 - Summon: Usually lists tend to bring some sort of Courtier (due to Battalion cost) - so I think the 3 Knights, from TG, seems better! Ofc is amazing to bring Varghulf as summon... both are great, for me its just an option that works better in my list.

4 - Ability: Maybe this is the main reason TG wins this battle -  Gaping Maw and Infested. First we have an amazing one - paired with Archregent is brutal - usually procing 1-4 times dealing 6-24 MW (Mortal Wounds are amazing in AoS) // Manage to Kill those HIGH SAVE units like Ethereal Cogs Vampire Lord on ZD // the second one is  good to finish up heroes that were fighting you - being AOE is a plus. 

OPINION: My feeling is that, besides mass Horrors list where the ZD Spell make them much better, TG tend to be overall better! Even not being able to completely buff more than 1 (Only one spell cast). 

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1 hour ago, Aleister said:

That sucks, I thought a GK was a GK

And they all can’t use the charnel throne, only the mighty Archregent may use it...

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7 minutes ago, Honk said:

And they all can’t use the charnel throne, only the mighty Archregent may use it...

ALL HAIL THE MIGHT ARCHREGENT! hahahaha

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15 minutes ago, Honk said:

And they all can’t use the charnel throne, only the mighty Archregent may use it...

The Warscroll for Charnel Throne names, in bold, both Abhorrant Archregent and Abhorrant Ghoul King as models that can summon without spending a CP.  So while the ghoulies may not benefit from it while riding, they definitely should when on foot.

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1 minute ago, Aleister said:

The Warscroll for Charnel Throne names, in bold, both Abhorrant Archregent and Abhorrant Ghoul King as models that can summon without spending a CP.  So while the ghoulies may not benefit from it while riding, they definitely should when on foot.

GK on Foot and Archregent are the only units that can use it! You are right about benefiting from it when on foot...
 

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24 minutes ago, Aleister said:

The Warscroll for Charnel Throne 

My App shows no bold keywords... but I‘m not 100% on the faq

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2 minutes ago, Honk said:

My App shows no bold keywords... but I‘m not 100% on the faq

Does it not say Abhorrant Ghoul King?  The warscroll download from GW does (and I assume it's pretty up to date since the Charnel Throne is a new model), and so does my Battletome.  I wouldn't be surprised if GW flubbed somewhere 😛

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