AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[Honk]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

XD pictures!

„Sadly“ there are none... but I included an overview of the mighty host from „Harald, der Herrliche“ for you.

the classic flayers were build and painted for a deadwatch list, then on a fateful day I decided to test some horrors... unpainted unsorted arms 🙄 and weak magnets, so they all end up looking like zombie gorillas.

[JackStreicher]

5 minutes ago, TheWilddog said:

I always loved this model from Blood Keep minis for a Varghulf. To bad they went out of business. You see then on ebay occasionally and the sculptor keeps saying he is going to release them again.  

This one is bigger than a Terrorgheist. I had him and gifted him away. ^^

 

@Honk

I‘ve got some armor bits on my shapeways shop, they might help to cover it up a little =}

Edited March 10, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Fluttershy]

https://revanosnt.artstation.com/projects/lJ2vz

[JackStreicher]

8 hours ago, Fluttershy said:

https://revanosnt.artstation.com/projects/lJ2vz

Nice, but a bit too much gorilla-like for my taste ^^

[schwabbele]

17 hours ago, Honk said:

Proxy the model and it hurts fort he duration of the game, mess up the model and it hurts forever...

whenever I see my magnetized flayers I die a little bit inside 

Regretting it already, nearly poked my eye out twice with the long stabby thingy on his wing during test painting

[TheBluMnM]

Hey guys, I'm having some pushback from opponents when I feeding frenzy a GKoTG with Gruesome Bite. The fact that the maw doesn't degrade makes it really good, and re-rolling those hits are awesome. No one actually questions if I'm allowed to do it, but I see some dour faces and people complaining it's too good. How do I justify it? Why is this combination so good and what are it's drawbacks? I like when my opponents have fun facing off with me, and this seems to throw a real sour lemon into anyone's day.  This is in a 1500pt list, and I was planning on running two at 1750, but now I'm not so sure. It's my only behemoth too, but people really hate it.

[Honk]

1 hour ago, TheBluMnM said:

Why is this combination so good and what are it's drawbacks? 

The possible MW output and the general damage done by the maw is just crazy... and there are no real drawbacks. Might even supercharge it with a ferocious hunger.

1 hour ago, TheBluMnM said:

How do I justify it?

„GW wants me to do this to you, I‘m really sorry and please remember pre-AoS2.0, when you wiped the floor with my poor FEC. Now get ready to get eaten“

they should have kept the old rule of MWs on a 6 to wound, that way the chances are not so high.

 

only counterplay that comes to mind is speedbumps and alpha-strike and 6 kurnoth bowmen or equivalents. Gristlegores always strikes first might get faqed to „only the king not the mount“ but that is tricky with the activation... so gkotg bit broken at the moment I hate to admit.

 

[Evil Bob]

2 hours ago, TheBluMnM said:

Hey guys, I'm having some pushback from opponents when I feeding frenzy a GKoTG with Gruesome Bite. The fact that the maw doesn't degrade makes it really good, and re-rolling those hits are awesome. No one actually questions if I'm allowed to do it, but I see some dour faces and people complaining it's too good. How do I justify it? Why is this combination so good and what are it's drawbacks? I like when my opponents have fun facing off with me, and this seems to throw a real sour lemon into anyone's day.  This is in a 1500pt list, and I was planning on running two at 1750, but now I'm not so sure. It's my only behemoth too, but people really hate it.

Kudos to you TheBluMnM for treating the game as a hobby instead of a WAC game.  One rule GW has constantly listed in the books is, “have fun,” and work out issues or roll a die.

The problem might be your opponents are playing very casually.  GKoTG are extremely vulnerable to horde attacks, the VLoZD is as well and his save is better.  Warmchines are particularly dangerous.  Alternatively if your big guys are too good then throw your opponent a bone with ten man Ghoul Squads or three man Knights without synergies.

[TheWilddog]

2 hours ago, TheBluMnM said:

Hey guys, I'm having some pushback from opponents when I feeding frenzy a GKoTG with Gruesome Bite. The fact that the maw doesn't degrade makes it really good, and re-rolling those hits are awesome. No one actually questions if I'm allowed to do it, but I see some dour faces and people complaining it's too good. How do I justify it? Why is this combination so good and what are it's drawbacks? I like when my opponents have fun facing off with me, and this seems to throw a real sour lemon into anyone's day.  This is in a 1500pt list, and I was planning on running two at 1750, but now I'm not so sure. It's my only behemoth too, but people really hate it.

Our army is a close combat army. It is the only thing we do well.  Our shooting phase is anemic. Our magic is mostly combat buffs and no where near other armies like LoN or Gloomspire. Also saves across the army are bad so most of our units just melt.  If we don’t hit like a Mac truck we are just a bunch of bad dudes who don’t do much of anything and can’t compete with top armies like DoK, LoN or Stormcast.

Edited March 11, 2019 by TheWilddog

[Mmanuel]

A GkoTg cost 400 points..... Same cost of 10 stormcast's evocators, and they deal more damage and have double of the dragon health.... 

[TheBluMnM]

Thanks guys! Yea GKoTG seems like a real hard hitter, but looking at him in isolation removes the surrounding factors of lackluster magic, shooting, price, and the squishier parts of the army.  I'll keep all that in mind and try to remind my opponents that he's a linchpin unit to an army that will falter without him.

[TheWilddog]

14 minutes ago, TheBluMnM said:

Thanks guys! Yea GKoTG seems like a real hard hitter, but looking at him in isolation removes the surrounding factors of lackluster magic, shooting, price, and the squishier parts of the army.  I'll keep all that in mind and try to remind my opponents that he's a linchpin unit to an army that will falter without him.

Also remind folks that before the new book we had mostly the same army without the new buffs and were totally irrelevant competitively (besides some great results from one the best players in the world Bill S, who I am pretty sure could win a GT with random models blindly drawn out of a paper bag). 

Edited March 11, 2019 by TheWilddog

[Fluttershy]

Is it possible to use Feeding Frenzy in addition to Call to War?

[Jymmy]

I’m fairly new to Aos, and decided to begin with Flesh Eaters, but I’m a bit in a state of mild confusion about what should I summon with the heroes and in which situation . I thought that collecting FEC was easy due to the small ammount of unit variety, but now I find that I don’t know how many aditional units should I buy for keeping in the summoning reserve.

A short guideline from experienced players would be very much appreciated.

Like: with zombie dragon summon always the varghulf unless X scenario, where you should summon X.

The one I have most doubts is with the TG since I’ve been reading that a unit of 3 knights is near useless, should I summon a 10 unit ghoul for capturing objectives almost in all cases?

Regarding to my army, I’m thinking in a horror heavy list (2x6) with a big unit of ghouls and a ZG, TG and archregent.

Thank you in advance!

[XReN]

16 hours ago, TheBluMnM said:

Hey guys, I'm having some pushback from opponents when I feeding frenzy a GKoTG with Gruesome Bite. The fact that the maw doesn't degrade makes it really good, and re-rolling those hits are awesome. No one actually questions if I'm allowed to do it, but I see some dour faces and people complaining it's too good. How do I justify it? Why is this combination so good and what are it's drawbacks? I like when my opponents have fun facing off with me, and this seems to throw a real sour lemon into anyone's day.  This is in a 1500pt list, and I was planning on running two at 1750, but now I'm not so sure. It's my only behemoth too, but people really hate it.

It made my opponent concede 1st turn when his mawcrusha got mawcrushed by 12 MWs)
Your opponents sould learn how to counter this list but you might want to wait before dropping a second GKoTG against them, playing gristlegore I've lost to LoN with Nagash and Maggotkin (granted, because of stupid mistakes, but still it was a loss) 
There are many ways for your opponents may counter that, if they only complain - they just don't want to and deserve to be eaten

[XReN]

1 hour ago, Jymmy said:

I’m fairly new to Aos, and decided to begin with Flesh Eaters, but I’m a bit in a state of mild confusion about what should I summon with the heroes and in which situation . I thought that collecting FEC was easy due to the small ammount of unit variety, but now I find that I don’t know how many aditional units should I buy for keeping in the summoning reserve.

A short guideline from experienced players would be very much appreciated.

Like: with zombie dragon summon always the varghulf unless X scenario, where you should summon X.

The one I have most doubts is with the TG since I’ve been reading that a unit of 3 knights is near useless, should I summon a 10 unit ghoul for capturing objectives almost in all cases?

Regarding to my army, I’m thinking in a horror heavy list (2x6) with a big unit of ghouls and a ZG, TG and archregent.

Thank you in advance!

Welcome to the court!

Let's start with summoning:

For GKoZD varghulf is only real option, I can see how Infernal might help with MWs and shooting, but varghulf is a real boss 

GKoTG - horrors unless against stomcast or idoneth, or you can't possibly lend support of your abhorant to the new unit you might consider summoning flayers, also unit of 3 knights is not useless, they can deal good damage. 

GK on foot - it's okay not to summon with him at all if placing him away from the throne will benefit you more

Regent - it depends, haven't got much experience with him yet

 

In a list you mention you will lack 2 out of 3 important parts: battalion, courtiers, CPs (well, maybe you can go for ghast+chalice and cp's) also you will probably end up with Hollowmourne grand court (which worked well for me, surprisingly well actually) but without attendants at court or mounted GK you will happen to fight without rerolls far more often than you want , also missing out on mount trait and ZD can't heal without rider or battalion.

I will share some experince playing Hollowmourne (and few army pics) later

[Fluttershy]

1 hour ago, Jymmy said:

Like: with zombie dragon summon always the varghulf unless X

 in case of "X" - summon a shovel and get the treasure! Arrrrrrrrr

[Honk]

4 hours ago, XReN said:

Your opponents sould learn how to counter this list but you might want to wait before dropping a second GKoTG against them

True words, but tricky to pull off. In my local group a lot of players wandered off to other games x-wing or this other Star Wars legion, some are actually hesitant to play against you or say they don’t have time, but then they gang around all day...

21 hours ago, TheBluMnM said:

I like when my opponents have fun facing off with me, and this seems to throw a real sour lemon into anyone's day.

Tone it down, till they get the hang of it or play open war cards and they get a triumph or something. 

A „hard“ list will scare those players away, who are to lazy/chill/stupid/fluffy/cheap to counter. Being shunned or having a drop in the player base is the worst that can happen, if you’re playing for fun.

5 hours ago, Jymmy said:

Regarding to my army, I’m thinking in a horror heavy list

Start with  500 and 750 points, built up from that. You‘ll get the feeling for your guys what delivers and what falls short.

except for Zd please varghulf there are no fix guidelines. Especially the „knights“ are so dependent on enemy and scenarios that a strong answer is not really possible 

[XReN]

1 hour ago, Honk said:

True words, but tricky to pull off. In my local group a lot of players wandered off to other games x-wing or this other Star Wars legion, some are actually hesitant to play against you or say they don’t have time, but then they gang around all day...

Glad that my opponents enjoy challanges, but we have another problem with aos: it's rarely happes to be more than 6-8 players on one day tourneys across bonkers 60 people who played AoS at least ones and own an army, now only about 10 are active and 6 more show up occasionally.

[XReN]

Okey, I'd like to share stories of my knight's battles under Hollowmourne banner
We had a two days narrative event last weekend and there was list restriction not to take something that would just murder your opponent turn 2, to go for more fun to play with and against list (though one list slipped orgs gaze and I faced tournament seraphon twice on the first day of event)

Here is the list that I used:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Hollowmourne

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Trait: Grave Robber 
- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast
- Mount Trait: Horribly Resilient
Abhorrant Ghoul King (140)
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe 
- Lore of Madness: Deranged Transformation
Crypt Haunter Courtier (120)
- Artefact: Corpsefane Gauntlet 
Crypt Ghast Courtier (60)

Battleline
30 x Crypt Ghouls (300)
6 x Crypt Horrors (320)
6 x Crypt Horrors (320)

Battalions
Attendants at Court (110)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1850 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110

Playing Hollowmourne for the first time after sleeping 4 hours before first day (due to finishing my army to acceptable level of narrativeness) and 7 hours before second day (after 4 beers and a bottle of rum with buddies) I forgot and never remembered that Hollowmourne have reroll of 1s to wound bonus for Knights and Courtiers on charge

So, that bonus would probably be helpfull since I alwost never been able to cast GKoZD's spell, CA is great and I loved the amount of mobility it gives, the only downside is the fact that you have to declare it at the beginning of your hero phase so before deranged transformation being cast, still works wonders with horrors who can zip across the table and give everyone they dislike a gravestone to the face threatment. Command Trait actually was very helpfull as well! When I faced seraphon carnosaur with doppelganger it helped me to secure the kill considering how much weaker ZD (especially with healing trait) compared to TG, second time was when I was kicking khorne around with this sweet buff whille weakling buffing characters filled with supporting relics tried to scratch my general, so additional attack AND damage is really cool. And the last, Court's forced artefact, corpsefane gauntlet, was good as well, in a list filled with horrors any rend or MWs are god's blessing, that helped me to kill Vandus Hammerhand in cover and Celestant Prime all after GKoZD was dead.

Now for the list itself: horrors deal good damage and have enough staying capacity thanks to self heal and courtiers, because of crazy speed provided by deranged transformation and CA they've been able to choose their fights and strike where it hurts most, or slaughter weak units in one go, or cover General's flanks whille he took upon strongest enemies. GKoZD whille being okay and calling in varghulf is frustratingly weaker than GKoTG (I mean, he have not deleted 4 liberators in cover with some 6++ saves in one go, thats nonsense), courtiers have been always doing their job keeping my army alive and healthy, sometimes charging into the fray to assist horrors, but it usually happened under unpleasant circumstances. The 30 unit of ghouls whille feeling small did ok, considering they rarely fought anything they can't grind eventually and served as good roadblock/catch unit, vortex was decent addition considering I don't have Regent yet

It was the pros and I won't go over cons since this list heavily lacks optimisation and I have an idea on how to optimise it right here:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Hollowmourne

Leaders
Abhorrant Archregent (200)
- General
- Trait: Grave Robber 
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe 
- Lore of Madness: Deranged Transformation
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Crypt Haunter Courtier (120)
- Artefact: Corpsefane Gauntlet 
Crypt Ghast Courtier (60)

Battleline
30 x Crypt Ghouls (300)
6 x Crypt Horrors (320)
6 x Crypt Horrors (320)

Battalions
Attendants at Court (110)

Endless Spells
Chalice of Ushoran (40)
Cadaverous Barricade (30)

Total: 1900 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111

Maybe I'll playetest it, maybe no.
That's enough rambling for now I think.

Edited March 12, 2019 by XReN

[XReN]

And some really crappy pics of my Court coming from Ulgu, bases are not finished and I might do some touch ups here and there but a race to finish painting to at least somewhat acceptable level burnt me out so I'll take some time not playing aos and painting ghouls

[GeneralZero]

With carrion empire, I was just to build a skaven army and bing!!!!!....***!?? I'm with FEC army also (yeah I know, plastic junky sh*t )

Do you have some receipt to fast paint a FEC army? I can't find good video/tips to speed painting this army which at fist sight seems to be relatively easy to paint...

[kenshin620]

3 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

With carrion empire, I was just to build a skaven army and bing!!!!!....***!?? I'm with FEC army also (yeah I know, plastic junky sh*t )

Do you have some receipt to fast paint a FEC army? I can't find good video/tips to speed painting this army which at fist sight seems to be relatively easy to paint...

Color Primer Spray of your choice, add basic other base colors, then Wash. Thats the usual recipe anyways for any quick paint job.

[Honk]

8 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Do you have some receipt to fast paint a FEC army?

 

Bucket airbrush...

Edited March 13, 2019 by Honk

[Fluttershy]

..apply wash..