AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[relic456]

5 minutes ago, Gdead909 said:

Youre right I was thinking of the other ability. But unless they change it you cant ally him in under FEC

Yeah realized that the second I posted, my mistake!  Necormancer for the double pile in would be tasty though!

Edited February 4, 2019 by relic456
Still an idiot, FEC don't have the Summonable keyword.

[mrbedlam]

1 minute ago, relic456 said:

Yeah realized that the second I posted, my mistake!  Necormancer for the double pile in would be tasty though!

They definitely don't have the summonable keyword for the Danse. There's really no allies that work well with Fleshies as they stand right now. PErhaps that will change with the new battletome

[Gdead909]

1 minute ago, relic456 said:

Yeah realized that the second I posted, my mistake!  Necormancer for the double pile in would be tasty though!

Ya thats the one I was thinking of. Necromancer only works on summonable. Vampire lords we just cant take lol

[relic456]

Yeesh I think I need more coffee! Thanks for the corrections.

[JackStreicher]

20 hours ago, TheWilddog said:

This basically applies to most of the new scenery pieces. Who carries a Moon Shrine mountain with a cave in it and a 20 foot tall stone Monolith Herdstone? 

Not exactly. I can find annexplanation for those with ease. For the throne? Not at all. There would‘ve been a million better options.

explanations:

the Gobbos simply spill forth at such loonshrines, so their army gathers there.

beastmen gather around herdstones, so that‘s fine since those things can be anywhere in the open.

the Throne lies somewhere underground in the heart of the FeC empire. So it makes no sense the throne is present at each and every battle, especially not in such a static and solid shape. They should have just recycled kurdoss valentian‘s throne

[TheWilddog]

12 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Not exactly. I can find annexplanation for those with ease. For the throne? Not at all. There would‘ve been a million better options.

explanations:

the Gobbos simply spill forth at such loonshrines, so their army gathers there.

beastmen gather around herdstones, so that‘s fine since those things can be anywhere in the open.

the Throne lies somewhere underground in the heart of the FeC empire. So it makes no sense the throne is present at each and every battle, especially not in such a static and solid shape. They should have just recycled kurdoss valentian‘s throne

That differentiation makes no sense. If Beastmen can build a 20 foot tall monolith everywhere they go, the FEC can throw together a replica of bone throne where they battle.

[JackStreicher]

56 minutes ago, TheWilddog said:

That differentiation makes no sense. If Beastmen can build a 20 foot tall monolith everywhere they go, the FEC can throw together a replica of bone throne where they battle.

With an endless stream of rotting corpses beneath and a ruin underneath?

it‘s a throne, not a lookout Post. And where is a THRONE placed? Right, in the throneroom. Otherwise it‘s palanquin at best.

they could also hastily put together a bone cathedral, a bone courtroom and a bone kingdom. - makes no sense. At least BoC have Cygors etc. that might easily carry the stone without breaking it.

*imagining a Zombiedragon carrying a huge unstable bone throne with a wall attached to it *

Edited February 4, 2019 by JackStreicher

[TheWilddog]

46 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

With an endless stream of rotting corpses beneath and a ruin underneath?

it‘s a throne, not a lookout Post. And where is a THRONE placed? Right, in the throneroom. Otherwise it‘s palanquin at best.

they could also hastily put together a bone cathedral, a bone courtroom and a bone kingdom. - makes no sense. At least BoC have Cygors etc. that might easily carry the stone without breaking it.

*imagining a Zombiedragon carrying a huge unstable bone throne with a wall attached to it *

We play in a world full of high fantasy magic where random shipwrecks and flying sea turtles randomly show up and a magic comet hits the ground and turns into a big moon shaped mountain with a cave under with goblins pouring out and you can not imagine a way a cannibal army with bones and gore all around them can build a bone throne on a ruin.  Again this just does not make sense.

I get that you don’t like it and think it was poor design but that does not make it not fit in the world.

Edited February 4, 2019 by TheWilddog

[Overread]

When you're a half insane cannibal monster that believes its a king or knight in shining armour leading scores of loyal warriors to battle evil - you're not going to sit on any old chair! You're taking the darn throne with you to battle to sit upon! 

Sure it might be a Throne that requires you to carry some bones and cast a spell or just put on the baggage carts.....er corps carts.... but it surely can be done.

 

 

Honestly the disconnect is more because we don't get baggage trains and such with Warhammer Armies in a visual way. In real world armies yes you'd bring a lot of stuff along with your marching army. Seriously go watch something like Sharp (yes its not a documentary I know) and see that there's camps, carts, trunks, chairs, forges, tools, spades, barrels, food, water, wine, etc...... A single Throne makes perfect sense when you consider that the Flesh Eaters are likely taking a train of lesser critters along with them for support and resources away from their settlements. Heck don't forget camp followers and utilities staff. 

Thing is this doesn't get brought out in the lore much. If you follow Stormcast stories they tend to focus only on the battles whilst Stormcast appear able to function without any kind of support train really. They don't appear to need food, rest, resources or even camps. Able to operate, sleep and sustain themselves within their armour for days. It gives them an insane ability to move fast over terrain whilst conducting war; whilst many other factions are going to move slower since they'll have to bring all the rest along. 

 

The game and lore focus far more on the battles themselves without bogging themselves down in the mechanics of war. You'd get a better sense out of something like Malazan Book of the Fallen series or Game of Thrones. They both tend to build more importance into the support train and the concepts of armies having to have logistical connections and support the further away from their home settlements that they operate and the longer that they operate. Even the dirty elements such as just paying your warriors - yep soliders without pay are going to fall foul of more looting, desertion and general problems. Again some armies in AoS just do away with this by their mechanics; whilst others I think it just doesn't get brought up enough. 

[Rob Hawkins]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

When you're a half insane cannibal monster that believes its a king or knight in shining armour leading scores of loyal warriors to battle evil - you're not going to sit on any old chair! You're taking the darn throne with you to battle to sit upon! 

Sure it might be a Throne that requires you to carry some bones and cast a spell or just put on the baggage carts.....er corps carts.... but it surely can be done.

That makes sense if the throne is only set up wholly within the FEC deployment zone.  But why would they have built it out in the middle of the board? It's like having a baggage train, and sending it out in the middle of the battlefield while the general ranks up his forces.

The throne looks like something that should be in your army's "base camp" which (scenario and/or themed battlefield notwithstanding) would not be halfway between your army and your enemy.  Actually, the more I think about it, I hope the throne's rules stipulate that it has to be set up in your own deployment zone (more likely "within your army's territory").

[Thenord]

Dude, just don't buy it. Or make your own conversion of it. Problem solved...

[novakai]

To be frank comparing the throne to say the Herdstone, Feculent Nurgle tree, Loonshrine, and the gloomtide, it is probably the weakest terrain feature design-wise. 

But in the end it just a terrain feature, it just there to sit still and look pretty while giving you free buff. it not meant to be this piece that display amazing CAD sculpting technique and be the centerpiece representation of your army. it just there on the battlefield because you are heavily incentivize (almost force in a way) to field one

it just the lack of anything new and interesting that maybe it lackluster show a bit more but don't blame the throne for it.

[XReN]

2 hours ago, Thenord said:

Or make your own conversion of it.

Would have been easier if darn thing was not that tall...

 

[Thenord]

25 minutes ago, XReN said:

Would have been easier if darn thing was not that tall...

 

Buy two boxes of citadel skulls (or something like that) and build a throne out of skulls - Easy, properbly cheaper and will be so much more realistic in this fantasy game.... 😅

Edited February 5, 2019 by Thenord

[XReN]

1 minute ago, Thenord said:

Buy two boxes of citadel skulls (or something like that) and build a throne out of skulls - Easy, properbly cheaper and will be so much more realistic in this fantasy game.... 😅

Nah, was just saying

I like the throne even though debrie are stupid and I hate the wholle concept of carrying it along my minies

[JackStreicher]

8 hours ago, TheWilddog said:

We play in a world full of high fantasy magic where random shipwrecks and flying sea turtles randomly show up and a magic comet hits the ground and turns into a big moon shaped mountain with a cave under with goblins pouring out and you can not imagine a way a cannibal army with bones and gore all around them can build a bone throne on a ruin.  Again this just does not make sense.

I get that you don’t like it and think it was poor design but that does not make it not fit in the world.

Again: terminology. In either case that would not be a throne unless it‘s in the throneroom.

[Seraphage]

I don't even play FEC and the throne makes perfect sense. "Here is what will happen to you as it happened to all our previous enemies. We 'll sit on your damn bones."

Pretty straightforward for me

[XReN]

5 minutes ago, Seraphage said:

I don't even play FEC and the throne makes perfect sense. "Here is what will happen to you as it happened to all our previous enemies. We 'll sit on your damn bones."

Pretty straightforward for me

Screaming Skull Catapults did better job of intimidating those who oppose their masters

[novakai]

27 minutes ago, Seraphage said:

I don't even play FEC and the throne makes perfect sense. "Here is what will happen to you as it happened to all our previous enemies. We 'll sit on your damn bones."

Pretty straightforward for me

I doubt they have enough sanity to taunt their enemies with a random chair that they themselves have no idea where it came from

[The_Chin]

I reckon it speaks perfectly to the madness and inflated ego of the Ghoul Kings that they would command their "subjects" break down their throne and bring it with them to each battlefield, so that they may better look down on the pathetic "lower classes"

I'll be interested to read the background for it. At the very least its an expansion of our lore, which I'm all for!

[Uvatha]

Seen through the eyes of the flesh eater courts: a raging battleground is actually a sumptuous dinner with "finest" guests. So I am not upset by the presence of a Throne for the noble host. I just wonder where did they put the dinning table?  

PS: I have just finished reading recently the first FEC Battle tome. And the lore description and short stories were just as crazy as great. I was not sure at the beginning but then I understood that each description was ironically starting as a normal heroic fantasy scene: like involving a brave knight in golden plate holding a white banner over a battlefield and fighting monsters... and then suddenly along the story you realize we are just seeing it through the eyes of the flesh-eater himself. The poor monster smashed under the "knight's" sword is actually just an innocent fool who failed to run away before the FEC sacked his village  I hope the incoming battle tome will be written in the same way!

[Gdead909]

8 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Again: terminology. In either case that would not be a throne unless it‘s in the throneroom.

To them it is in the throne room. 

[Mosquito onthe TenthFloor]

9 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Again: terminology. In either case that would not be a throne unless it‘s in the throneroom.

My throne is in the bathroom.

15 hours ago, Rob Hawkins said:

That makes sense if the throne is only set up wholly within the FEC deployment zone.  But why would they have built it out in the middle of the board? It's like having a baggage train, and sending it out in the middle of the battlefield while the general ranks up his forces.

The throne looks like something that should be in your army's "base camp" which (scenario and/or themed battlefield notwithstanding) would not be halfway between your army and your enemy.  Actually, the more I think about it, I hope the throne's rules stipulate that it has to be set up in your own deployment zone (more likely "within your army's territory").

Well, previously, they were encamped there but driven off by an opposing force. The king, unhappy as the loss of his throne, has decreed that they must push forward and reclaim this for glory when it is in the midst of an enemy army.

 

Done.

[Sception]

I don't mind the chair so much, but would have preferred a few charnel corpse pits / "banquet tables".

Or, what would have been even better, no new terrain piece, but instead re-package the existing graveyard piece that was already associated with the ghoul faction back in the compendium days.  Like, let FEC players set up an extra "Sigmarite Mausoleum" before the start of the game, and give them extra rules when they're near one.  It's a much more impressive kit than the chair, arguably more thematic & easier to work into the narrative (it's much easier to imagine there already being a graveyard at a location & the ghouls are coming to claim it as opposed to there already being a fancy ghoul specific bone throne), etc.

And that would have also freed up a figure release for a courtier box oh my gosh how did they not fix this.  And heck, if laziness was the motivator, new courtier heroes could have /also/ been 50%+ recycled sculpts.  just put the existing ghoul champ and horror champ sculpts on new sprues with fancier heads & taller scenic bases.

It's just shocking to me that they haven't fixed this problem yet.  Taking models out of unit boxes to make your heroes is just unacceptable when those units can only ever be fielded in multiples of the box count.

.....

On a more positive note, that spell buff from the ghoul emperor, while not the most reliable, sounds absolutely sick.  The 'entirely within' wording, while expected, will be a bit of a hassle.  If the competitive scene ever starts running ranged attacks again it might be a bit tricky to keep him around long enough to actually get much use out of him, but that can be said for plenty of other models that currently have little trouble justifying themselves despite extreme vulnerability to ranged attacks - Arkhan sprining most swiftly to mind.

The other drawback being that the buff is a spell, and thus subject to unbinding.  Somehow I doubt the new FEC book will bring much in the way of casting buffs, so getting it off might be a bit tricky.  Speaking of Arkhan, maybe ally him in, and use his ability to borrow spells to cast the buff with a +2 bonus?  His CA could also help with the "wholly within" issue.  Though, again, your vulnerability to sniping would be pretty high.

In terms of ally synergy, I wonder if they're going to add the 'summonable' keyword to any FEC units.   It would be nice to be able to use vanhels on ghoul & horror units w/ an allied necromancer again.

[Neinball]

3 hours ago, Sception said:

On a more positive note, that spell buff from the ghoul emperor, while not the most reliable, sounds absolutely sick.  The 'entirely within' wording, while expected, will be a bit of a hassle.  If the competitive scene ever starts running ranged attacks again it might be a bit tricky to keep him around long enough to actually get much use out of him, but that can be said for plenty of other models that currently have little trouble justifying themselves despite extreme vulnerability to ranged attacks - Arkhan sprining most swiftly to mind.

The other drawback being that the buff is a spell, and thus subject to unbinding.  Somehow I doubt the new FEC book will bring much in the way of casting buffs, so getting it off might be a bit tricky.  Speaking of Arkhan, maybe ally him in, and use his ability to borrow spells to cast the buff with a +2 bonus?  His CA could also help with the "wholly within" issue.  Though, again, your vulnerability to sniping would be pretty high.

In terms of ally synergy, I wonder if they're going to add the 'summonable' keyword to any FEC units.   It would be nice to be able to use vanhels on ghoul & horror units w/ an allied necromancer again.

The spell having a 24" range (even if wholly within) gives a lot of room to work with in keep the regent out of shooting and unbind ranges. If they don't give FEC anything to help with casting then I know I will for sure continue to include Arkhan in my lists. With so much emphasis on the magic phase lately, you've got to ensure you're getting those critical spells off.

I do hope they'll do something to make allies a more interesting choice for FEC, as it stands now they're missing out on the best ally choice (Vamp Lord for +1 attack), Necromancers are pretty useless to them atm, and the only decent choice is Arkhan and maybe a corpse cart for bonuses to casting if you can't fit the Mortarch.