AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[Joseph Mackay]

Thoughts on this list? It’s for an upcoming somewhat casual teams tournament 

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast Day
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Crypt Haunter Courtier (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Dark Acolyte - Blood Feast 
- Artefact: The Flayed Pennant 
Abhorrant Archregent (240)
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe 
- Lore of Madness: Deranged Transformation
Abhorrant Ghoul King (160)
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host

Battleline
6 x Crypt Horrors (260)
6 x Crypt Horrors (260)
40 x Crypt Ghouls (360)
6 x Crypt Flayers (340)

Battalions
Abattoir (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chalice of Ushoran (50)
Corpsemare Stampede (70)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131

[Honk]

7 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Thoughts on this list?

Not sure if it isn’t smarter to switch the king for a varghulf to provide real regeneration...

otherwise it looks like casual fun

[Liquidsteel]

So with Teclis hitting soon, the new realm lords will definitely be hitting us with the double command points spell.

 

As someone who picked up FEC as my isolation army I still haven't put them on the table, hoping for a change next month as I'm almost done painting.

 

My query is whether this threat will move Feast Day to the de-facto choice over Gristlegore, at least in tournament settings where you can't pick and choose your list based on the opponent?

 

I'm also curious how detrimental the auto dispel of chalice will be, as Teclis gets to auto unbind one each turn. Lords of Change can do something similar; how have people found dealing with that?

[Honk]

On 6/27/2020 at 9:38 AM, Liquidsteel said:

how have people found dealing with that?

If Teclis is what I‘m reading right now, even Nagash will be sorely pressed to get things done...at 220 points more

😂 Oh to be the cheese of the season 🤣

To quote stronger players, try to play your strengths against your opponents weaknesses.
Against Teclis, Nagash/Arkhan or a Lord of Change, your magic phase will suffer or be almost non existing. Try to Play without it or over-charge/suicide-bomb to delete those linchpins if nessessary.  
 

I guess people will need quite some time to react to that avalanche of cheese and find some counterplay. 

can‘t wait to get a cheap shot at constipated Boy and his shiney edgy fantasy-eldar 

[Liquidsteel]

Cheers for the input, I've listened to a few of the podcasts and they seem to say the same; either take him out ASAP or ignore and go for the rest of the army. Either way you just have to accept it...

 

[Honk]

39 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

go for the rest of the army

I mean a gkotg will mortal wound most things out of existence pretty easily, all a matter of unit placement and making a dash for it. 
haven‘t seen the warscrolls yet, but a low bravery is mentioned, so a gheist-scream could soften units up pretty badly. 
but as of now total speculation ...

[Liquidsteel]

Yeah, flayers could also be good.

If I'm reading it correctly, the Cathalar battleshock bounceback ability has a range of 18", however can only be bounced to a unit that must take a battleshock test itself.

So a heavy round of shooting but no charges (if you don't think you can wipe them out) might be the way to soften them up.

I'll see how things go, but might look in to expanding my collection of flayers to try out Blisterskin Deadwatch.

[TheWilddog]

From the leaks it looks like we stand pat this GHB with no point increases or decreases. Honestly, I can live with this.  Some stuff probably needed to come down, like Ghouls and some of the Battalions, but I was scared to death that the AGKoTG would get put up more.  I am fine as long as my flying bat monsters still get to wreck havoc on the cheap. I also think the loss of Realm Artifacts hurts us some as the AQ Brooch was soooooo good for us, but oh well, will see how it plays out.

[Honk]

Just read about the matched play special rule of only one mortal wound save...

another blow for the poor GkoTg  since the Undead save and unholy vitality will get scratched and I hate it 

[Fireymonkeyboy]

Seems to be a running debate is this means only one save of any kind ever (which nerfs us hugely), or only no stacking aftersaves (which is a bit of a nerf).  Even if the former, it means we still have improvable protection from MW, yeah?

 

FMB

[Ghoooouls]

12 minutes ago, Fireymonkeyboy said:

Seems to be a running debate is this means only one save of any kind ever (which nerfs us hugely), or only no stacking aftersaves (which is a bit of a nerf).  Even if the former, it means we still have improvable protection from MW, yeah?

 

FMB

It's one 'ward save' only - death units will still get their normal armour save and their 6++ ward save allegiance thing.

 

The leak clearly states only 1 dice roll per wound or mortal wound allocated.

 

The rules go like this - attacker attacks and wounds, unit takes armour save, failed armour saves go through to allocate wounds. It is at this wound allocation point that special 'ward saves' kick in like the flesh eaters 6++ one, so they still get that special ward save after their armour save, but no others.

 

This means that if the GKoTG casts his spell on himself, he will get his armour save and then have to choose he 5++ from his spell, or the 6++ from the allegiance ability, not use both.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Ghoooouls

[Fireymonkeyboy]

Yeah, that 

3 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

This means that if the GKoTG casts his spell on himself, he will get his armour save and then have to choose he 5++ from his spell, or the 6++ from the allegiance ability, not use both.

That was my understanding as well.  The interwebs, however, are currently full of delighted mobs dancing around bonfires, in celebration of "only one dice roll evah".

[Honk]

38 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

not use both.

Which is a big nerf for our suicide kings... or even the non-suicidal ones.

the 6++ undead is a last straw while the 5++ at least something like a save. 
for a central „kill ASAP“ target like our king a pretty big bummer.

lamentation and grudges were also yelled by the naked shorties. Not sure about their rules, but they had double „Ward-saves“ too, iirc 

Pushes strong armor saves/ignore rend or „real (50%)“ wards like Aelves get 🙁 

 

not a fan 🤷🏿‍♀️

[Ghoooouls]

42 minutes ago, Honk said:

Which is a big nerf for our suicide kings... or even the non-suicidal ones.

the 6++ undead is a last straw while the 5++ at least something like a save. 
for a central „kill ASAP“ target like our king a pretty big bummer.

lamentation and grudges were also yelled by the naked shorties. Not sure about their rules, but they had double „Ward-saves“ too, iirc 

Pushes strong armor saves/ignore rend or „real (50%)“ wards like Aelves get 🙁 

 

not a fan 🤷🏿‍♀️

I'm all for it. Yeah it is a slight nerf for FEC but it gets rid of the ridiculous stuff like nagash having 2+ rerollable armour then 2+ shrug to guard with 5++, 5++, 6++. If nagash himself rolls a 1 to shrug and the wounds go on to him, ge gets 4++, 5++, 6++ and can heal himself and guard 3 per turn.

 

The tanky stuff you can get was starting to get stupid. Mortal wounds will now be more deadly, as they should, and if it means I have to sacrifice a single 6+ ward when I cast a 5++ spell with an incredibly damaging GK I'm all for it.

 

I wouldnt call choosing the 5++ over the 6++ a 'big' nerf and it will probably make very little difference for the most part and if it gets rid of stupidly tanky stuff at the same time then that's a bonus.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Ghoooouls

[Honk]

9 hours ago, Ghoooouls said:

it gets rid of the ridiculous stuff like nagash

Well, the Nagash-Morghast Mortal wounds „ping-pong“ was ridiculous and was rightfully faqed. To negate his undead save, because he has his armor is a stupid nerf. Same goes for the unholy vitality spell on FEC units (GkoTg or other targets) where I don’t think a 6+++ last resort is too much to ask.
Nagashs petrifex elite power makes him the most expensive model in the whole game, just as a sidenote...

we‘ll see how things develop, I guess

[Ghoooouls]

54 minutes ago, Honk said:

Well, the Nagash-Morghast Mortal wounds „ping-pong“ was ridiculous and was rightfully faqed. To negate his undead save, because he has his armor is a stupid nerf. Same goes for the unholy vitality spell on FEC units (GkoTg or other targets) where I don’t think a 6+++ last resort is too much to ask.
Nagashs petrifex elite power makes him the most expensive model in the whole game, just as a sidenote...

we‘ll see how things develop, I guess

I'm talking about the immortis guard which hasnt been faqd and the downright silly amount of ward saves certain units can benefit from. Getting a 5++ from spell instead of 6++ death save will be fine and barely noticeable for the most part whilst quashing the silly combos you could get before.

 

IMO there should never have been multiple 'after' saves in the first place. My only worry is that more and more armies are getting massive access to mortal wounds everywhere but I assume that may well be addressed in the future if this rule goes down well.

 

Hell I've done 3 games recently as FEC and my 6++ on the GKoT was successful maybe once or twice. I just wouldn't be so quick to jump the gun and think it's a disastrous change.

 

And on that sidenote, points cost are not based on subfactions.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Ghoooouls

[Honk]

6 hours ago, Ghoooouls said:

points cost are not based on subfactions.

I don’t think Nagash is worth 880 in LoN, 800 was kinda ok. Looking at teclis and his abilities for 660, i‘d rather have him for 750 in LoN and 880 in OBR, just the known spells, the save, the synergies and the healing are worth 130 points.

With unholy vitality, I guess we’re just not thinking alike or argue from a different perspective. Of course the rule gets rid of some nasty combos and makes MWs a real threat again. But as you yourself said, the 6++ is a slight chance if lady Luck is willing, and the extra 5++ was needed or a nice additional buff, within an army that has a very bad armor save.
Fyreslayers and Nurglyboys too are kinda sad, nurgle with its 5++ rightfully I guess, fyreslayers with double 4++ not so much imo 😏 

[Charleston]

Hi guys,
I´ve build a small FEC Force during Corona downtime and had yesterday my first game vs Fyreslayers. It was a blast and the Ghouls felt really really fun to play! But I was pretty unsure about one thing: I recall that there was some kind of nerf or fix to Ghoul King (Or Gristlegore?) that was discussed some time ago. I belive it had to do with the Terrorgheist. But when playing, I could find neither something in the FAQ of the FEC nor a difference between the Battletome and AoS-App Profiles. Was the change reversed or have I somehow misunderstood that while browsing around?

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Charleston said:

there was some kind of nerf or fix to Ghoul King

Gristlegore General gets the „savage strike“ ability, Which was the first iteration of the Strike at the start of the combat phase.
The King of bingeeating was the big bully of the neighborhood for some months, before the faq made him opponent friendly again, only striking first after a charge...

[romhi]

Now that the realm artefacts have  been thoroughly gutted and we lost Gryph-feather charm, what would you bring on a mounted Feast Day king (Dermal Robe already donned by a Regent)?

The Grim Garland seem to be the best choice from our book, but I am interested in other ideas too.

[Hammer of War]

Hi, relatively new to FEC, old time Fantasy/AoS veteran. What is everyone's thoughts on competitive Royal Mordant-based lists? Toying with the idea of a 12 flayer unit moving in the hero phase...

[Jee]

14 hours ago, romhi said:

Now that the realm artefacts have  been thoroughly gutted and we lost Gryph-feather charm, what would you bring on a mounted Feast Day king (Dermal Robe already donned by a Regent)?

The Grim Garland seem to be the best choice from our book, but I am interested in other ideas too.

Indeed the Grim Garland could do a good job with two Ghoul Kings on Royal Terrorgheist accompanied by some Crypt Flayers.

Also I think that the Splintervane Brooch could also be useful on a Ghoul King coupled with an Archregent general with +2 to cast/unbind in this heavy magic meta (Ossiarch, Tzeentch, Lumineth).

I’m gonna try both for sure in my future games

[Honk]

7 hours ago, Columind said:

Toying with the idea of a 12 flayer unit moving in the hero phase...

The price is pretty high, with all the different units.

but a friendly Alpha from 12 super-frenzied Flayer sounds like fun.

[Stunt]

Regarding The Royal Mordants, I play it in Blisterskin and the options offered by a pack of 40 Ghouls able to move 16" are just great. I feel 12 Flayers is pushing it, they are only range 1 in melee and 50mm bases. Moreover, I never felt they needed the double move (But I play them in Blisterskin with Deranged Transformation and/or Spectral Host). I could see it used on a small Flayers squad to assassinate a key hero if a small opening presents itself, but a squad of 9-12 wouldn't be able to fit in a "small" opening ^^.

This battalion can also help the Horrors you are expected to take, they have never been cheaper and pack a serious punch with a Ghoul King around, in Mordants, they gain the mobility to choose their targets.

All in all, this battalion offers options the others cannot. And it is a lot of fun to play !

[El Antiguo Guardián]

On 7/15/2020 at 10:11 AM, Stunt said:

Regarding The Royal Mordants, I play it in Blisterskin and the options offered by a pack of 40 Ghouls able to move 16" are just great. I feel 12 Flayers is pushing it, they are only range 1 in melee and 50mm bases. Moreover, I never felt they needed the double move (But I play them in Blisterskin with Deranged Transformation and/or Spectral Host). I could see it used on a small Flayers squad to assassinate a key hero if a small opening presents itself, but a squad of 9-12 wouldn't be able to fit in a "small" opening ^^.

This battalion can also help the Horrors you are expected to take, they have never been cheaper and pack a serious punch with a Ghoul King around, in Mordants, they gain the mobility to choose their targets.

All in all, this battalion offers options the others cannot. And it is a lot of fun to play !

Yep, Royal Mordants it´s my favourite option.