AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[kozokus]

1 hour ago, ByronicHero said:

I think the artefacts are fine. I often take cloak on an AGKOTG. I can't say I agree with making the Varghulf a wizard general, but I suspect it is to allow greater mobility for use of command abilities, and extra magic doesn't hurt. I think I'd rather just give the AAR +2/+2 in that case though. 

With such a limited range of models native to the faction is isn't uncommon to end up with an awkward number of points left after you have chosen the core of the army. Sure, he could have removed the command point and the Pendulum and played a second AAR, or played 3 more flayers instead, but the AGK is essentially a 60 point wizard hero which requires some effort to kill due to a decent save and innate healing, which is perfectly reasonable. It also means 3, rather than 2, units can be summoned to pressure poorly defended areas of the battlefield which isn't a trivial difference. I suspect that aggressive summoning comes in tandem with the Flayer/AGK alpha strike. The Feast Day provides plenty of value and the cloak on the AGKOTG almost guarantees 4 activations from him before he is troubled by meaningful physical combat. 

You can also never discount the benefit of not playing a cookie cutter list. It is much harder for players to play against a plan that they have not faced many times already. 

I have not played this list so ultimately this is just first impression guesswork, and certainly not a guide - just to be clear! Haha. It is nice to see some different lists, 

Had a couple of game against a competitive Gloomspite-spell friend this evening. And i finally understood a couple of things about this list. It is quite...flexible. The cloak is refreshing. it is very securing. Also having a wizard that can move 10' before casting spells is interesting. Whas was lackluster was the pendulum that i wished was an exra command point every day. Also, beeing able to double move one of the unit of the bataillion is VERY interesting. 24" on the flayer or 14" on  the horrors was perfect. The AGK was okay, the wargulf could also make the +1A and so he was devoted to cast endless spells and give Crypt horrors rerolls to hit. I still wonder how i can beat slaanesh apart from the cloak.

Edited October 10, 2019 by kozokus

[Glemcik]

Hello, i'm new in this game and forum. I will be glad if someone can rate my army and give an advice in what way i have to go from now. 

My battleplan actually looks like  :

1. Summon 1x Varghulf and 3x flayers in first movement phase. And use them to kill any screens units my enemy have. 

2. Use cogs and attack "all in" with dragons. Use Chalice and blood feast  for heal them if any survive. 

3. KIll enemy in first three turns or lose to points. 

I'm not sure what should i do now, I see three ways for me:

1. Trying to learn better positioning by playing this army again and again  (but I'm not sure about my chances with that in local tournaments) 
2. Change to Glistregore (but i don't like idea to have lack of command points  all the time) 
3. Kick one dragon and add more flayers or Abhorrant Archregent and battalion for more Artefact

This is my Warscroll now: 

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast Day
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders

Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)

General
- Trait: Majestic Horror
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite

Abhorrant Archregent (240)  
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host

Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)
- Lore of Madness: Bonestorm

Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon  (440)
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host

Battleline
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)


Endless Spells / Terrain
Chalice of Ushoran (50)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

[JudgeFredd]

Greetings to you, my fellow Lords and Ladies of our most honorable court!
I new in you midst and I want to assemble few of my followers to challenge the rulers of my region...

We're having our first 1.000 point tournament and of course I want to rule over everybody... 😅

So, I thought about This List, but I can't say, if there's missing anything. I never played twith the courts.

Court: Gristlegore

AGKoTG

Archregent

10x Crypt Ghouls

10x Crypt Ghouls

Chalice of Ushoran

Corpsemare Stampede

980 Pts

 

1000 Points are quickly filled. I Like the two heros a lot,k after them, there weren't much points left, needed the ghouls, so...

BUT, if you say it realy doesn't much sense. Perhaps Gristlegore with the AGKoTG is a bit to much and I have to kick him out. I also like Morgaunt, or just the "The Feast Day" with "Dark Wizardry" and the "Dermal Robe" for a great wizard... I also like the Horrors a lot. (It seeems to me that everythink is great...)

 

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, JudgeFredd said:

Greetings to you, my fellow Lords and Ladies of our most honorable court!
I new in you midst and I want to assemble few of my followers to challenge the rulers of my region...

We're having our first 1.000 point tournament and of course I want to rule over everybody... 😅

So, I thought about This List, but I can't say, if there's missing anything. I never played twith the courts.

Court: Gristlegore

AGKoTG

Archregent

10x Crypt Ghouls

10x Crypt Ghouls

Chalice of Ushoran

Corpsemare Stampede

980 Pts

 

1000 Points are quickly filled. I Like the two heros a lot,k after them, there weren't much points left, needed the ghouls, so...

BUT, if you say it realy doesn't much sense. Perhaps Gristlegore with the AGKoTG is a bit to much and I have to kick him out. I also like Morgaunt, or just the "The Feast Day" with "Dark Wizardry" and the "Dermal Robe" for a great wizard... I also like the Horrors a lot. (It seeems to me that everythink is great...)

 

I‘d rather go for a AGKOTG a courtier and 2x 20 ghouls.

ora AGKOTG, a normal TG and 20 Ghouls + chalice.

Edited October 18, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Nymzee]

I wasn’t sure if I’d necessarily the best thread but I wanted to ask people a FEC lore question. Please direct me elsewhere if there is a lore thread on here. 
 

Basically, as I understand it the FEC are all completely delusional and see themselves as how we’d generalise a medieval kingdom with castles, a king, court feasts, servants, knights on horses etc. but is actually the polar opposite in reality. Now my questions are:

 

- If this is true and they do believe in their own delusion why then do the characters have names such as King Goretalon etc.? Surely they would simply have human names?

- If they do believe in their delusion how do they fight side-by-side at times with Nagash’s armies or do they see them under delusion as well? It isn’t clear at what point of Nagash’s reign the Carrion King served prior to his transformation. 
 

- If they do believe in their delusion how then are they able to raise dragons from the dead etc.? What could they see this as through their delusion? 

[XReN]

17 minutes ago, Nymzee said:

I wasn’t sure if I’d necessarily the best thread but I wanted to ask people a FEC lore question. Please direct me elsewhere if there is a lore thread on here. 
 

Basically, as I understand it the FEC are all completely delusional and see themselves as how we’d generalise a medieval kingdom with castles, a king, court feasts, servants, knights on horses etc. but is actually the polar opposite in reality. Now my questions are:

 

- If this is true and they do believe in their own delusion why then do the characters have names such as King Goretalon etc.? Surely they would simply have human names?

- If they do believe in their delusion how do they fight side-by-side at times with Nagash’s armies or do they see them under delusion as well? It isn’t clear at what point of Nagash’s reign the Carrion King served prior to his transformation. 
 

- If they do believe in their delusion how then are they able to raise dragons from the dead etc.? What could they see this as through their delusion? 

You better read through the battletome, but here is some knowledge:

They think that names like Goretalon are normal human names

There are courts that follow Nagash and there are courts who flee from him and they all see him differently. Also Nagash himself can control FEC in his presence through the Abhorrants, unlike Ghouls they are proper undead and therefore belong to Arch Necromancer. And they see literaly everything and everyone delusionaly, they can see their allies as noble knights even if it's actually madened tourtured souls of Nighthaunts and they can see Stormcast as vile abbominations that came to destroy their kingdom.

They think they tame the beast, whille actually they just ressurect one with help of Shyishian magic, to make this absolutely clear: they can see anything as anything else, they don't see themselves as nobles performing necromantic ritual over half-eaten rotten body of a dragon or what not, they see themselves as nobles training their gryphon.

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by XReN

[Nymzee]

5 minutes ago, XReN said:

You better read through the battletome, but here is some knowledge:

They think that names like Goretalon are normal human names

There are courts that follow Nagash and there are courts who flee from him and they all see him differently. Also Nagash himself can control FEC in his presence through the Abhorrants, unlike Ghouls they are proper undead and therefore belong to Arch Necromancer. And they see literaly everything and everyone delusionaly, they can see their allies as noble knights even if it's actually madened tourtured souls of Nighthaunts and they can see Stormcast as vile abbominations that came to destroy their kingdom.

They think they tame the beast, whille actually they just ressurect one with help of Shyishian magic, to make this absolutely clear: they can see anything as anything else, they don't see themselves as nobles performing necromantic ritual over half-eaten rotten body of a dragon or what not, they see themselves as nobles training their gryphon.

 

Yeh I’ve got the Battletome in order it was just a few things that baffled me a little reading some lore on the wiki’s out there. 
 

In regards to the names,  just as an example, there is a character now referred to as ‘Lord Chamberslough’ who was once known as They Iron Chamberlain’. So do the FEC “call” him The Iron Chamberlain through their delusion and Lord Chamberslough is an outside name change, or when they “call” him Lord Chamberslough do they think they’re calling him The Iron Chamberlain?

I know it’s all super irrelevant to the game but I find their lore fascinating so wanted to try fill some holes in my logic. 

[Honk]

6 hours ago, JudgeFredd said:

Perhaps Gristlegore with the AGKoTG is a bit to much

Nope... got nerfed pretty hard, no need to apologize anymore
not sure about the stampede, but it will mow down small infantry. 

 

3 hours ago, Nymzee said:

Surely they would simply have human names?

You mean like Harald der Herrliche (Gerald the Magificent), Defender of the Red Lake 😱

like XReN said, they have left insanity are reached new shores of madness... if you understand what’s going on in their minds, you are in serious trouble. I totally like the infectious side of the corrupting disease. First you fight some vile hellspawn creatures, your vision starts to shift slowly but surely and before you even realized after a week or ten of campaigning, you’re riding out with some really nice heroic knights into the sunset... FOR THE LADYYY!!!

[Amradiel]

Curious to know if there are any competitive lists out there 🤔

[Tikhunt]

Hey guys longtime lurker. 

Over the past few months I picked up a few things for Flesh Eaters because I just didn't enjoy the building and painting of my Blades of Khorne. I've picked up 2x Start Collecting, 3x Nightfeast Haunters and the Throne. I've got it built as follows. 

AGKoZD

AGK (proxying as AAR) 

Crypt Infernal Courtier 

Crypt Haunter Courtier

Varghulf Courtier (Built from Vargheist bits) 

2x Crypt Ghast Courtiers 

Royal Terrorgheist 

6x Crypt Horrors

6x Crypt Flayers

78x Crypt Ghouls (plan on buying 2 Ghouls on Ebay to replace the ones I turned into Courtiers) 

Charnel Throne 

I'm wondering about how good the battalions are at the moment along with how much summoning I should aim for in a standard list. I think I'm definitely going to lean more towards having 2 or 3 blocks of 20 Ghouls as the core of pretty much any list and then add monsters and elite units to taste as opposed to a lower model count army. Any pointers are appreciated, not played much AOS at all but have a basic understanding of the rules. 

 

[kozokus]

4 hours ago, Tikhunt said:

'm wondering about how good the battalions are at the moment

I have found that the royal mordant are an amazing one with so much flexibility I have trouble playing without. The double movement on your turn on a 6 flayer squad running and charging makes things hard to predict for your opponent. The pressure is immense.

[Crowvus]

On 10/18/2019 at 3:50 AM, XReN said:

You better read through the battletome, but here is some knowledge:

They think that names like Goretalon are normal human names

There are courts that follow Nagash and there are courts who flee from him and they all see him differently. Also Nagash himself can control FEC in his presence through the Abhorrants, unlike Ghouls they are proper undead and therefore belong to Arch Necromancer. And they see literaly everything and everyone delusionaly, they can see their allies as noble knights even if it's actually madened tourtured souls of Nighthaunts and they can see Stormcast as vile abbominations that came to destroy their kingdom.

They think they tame the beast, whille actually they just ressurect one with help of Shyishian magic, to make this absolutely clear: they can see anything as anything else, they don't see themselves as nobles performing necromantic ritual over half-eaten rotten body of a dragon or what not, they see themselves as nobles training their gryphon.

 

Very close but on the point of nagash controlling them the battletome states that even though Nagash can technically control them the delusions are so powerful that his commands can be twisted through it so the Flesh-Eaters might do something else or even the exact opposite even if they do see themselves as serving him or a version or him.  

[Tikhunt]

On 10/19/2019 at 10:19 PM, kozokus said:

I have found that the royal mordant are an amazing one with so much flexibility I have trouble playing without. The double movement on your turn on a 6 flayer squad running and charging makes things hard to predict for your opponent. The pressure is immense.

Have you found that flayers are better than horrors at the moment? I prefer the Horrors statwise but the sheer movement with fly really makes it seem flayers are the better choicep

[Evil Bob]

On 10/19/2019 at 12:27 PM, Tikhunt said:

snip

I think I'm definitely going to lean more towards having 2 or 3 blocks of 20 Ghouls as the core of pretty much any list and then add monsters and elite units to taste as opposed to a lower model count army. Any pointers are appreciated, not played much AOS at all but have a basic understanding of the rules. 

So last month I ran a 2k list against two 1k order lists.  My ghouls were 20/20/10 supported by an AAR and some GKoTG.  Even with masterful ghoul placement a unit of Evocators and elite Durin made really long charges and deleted both 20 ghoul units with combat-res.  It was nuts.  I don’t regularly lose the 20 units that fast but they are situationally squishy.  So be conscious of your local meta.

My general preference is ghouls in 10s or 40s as they best fit within a battle plan.  When a unit of 40 is placed it definitely will have an AAR (or other hero)  and hopefully a chalice nearby.

Keeping control of unit size is great for avoiding carpal tunnel syndrome and whatnot moving the horde.

[lemonicus]

Hey there!

 

Any advice on playing against gunlines? I keep getting obliterated against them. Always thinking if I should hold my ground or charge ahead.

I normally play Hollowmourne.

[Evil Bob]

8 hours ago, lemonicus said:

Hey there!

 

Any advice on playing against gunlines? I keep getting obliterated against them. Always thinking if I should hold my ground or charge ahead.

I normally play Hollowmourne.

Charging In

• Spectral Host on flyers allows them run & charge.
• Deranged Transformation lets your muscle units cover ground fast 
• Cogs can still be a thing.
• AAR summoning 20x Ghouls in the rear against a war-machine 
• A GKoZD can deepstrike next to a soft range unit.

Hunkering Down:

• Chalice in the middle of 40 ghouls and an objective.
• Multiple Courtiers “can” make it hard to dislodge units.  Just be sure they are set back enough to be a little safer while mustering.
• Miasmal Shroud on the unit with the most dice.

I don’t know what kind of gun line you’re facing.  Durin types like quality with rend.  Swifthawk agents spam dice.   FEC regen works well against quality range attacks and degrades against quantity.  It also loses luster if someone really ups the number of quality attacks by investing everything in more dice.  Sometimes crafty deployment patterns can let you shift your fighting onto one-half of the table while leaving an excess of enemy to take an objective you suddenly abandon.  That is harder against ranged units.

One thing I would avoid is trying to fight everything at once.  Death units cost extra for their regen nature.  So if the enemy’s attacks are “cheaper” they can just chew through.  One factor that works against snooty-types is trying to range people off objectives is effectively giving up victory points every turn your FEC are allowed to hold them.  Shooting to soften targets for a quality charge like Evocators can be a problem.  Balancing what you want to fight is going to be key.

A few questions:

1. What are you fighting?
2. What strategies does your opponent use?

[lemonicus]

Whoa thanks a lot! Didn't  expect this elaborate reply.

Next time I will try the zombie dragon strategy of deep striking next to  the summoned ghouls and the summoned courtier from behind or another edge, this would confuse the opponent a bit while I advance with  the rest of the army (considering they are still alive). For the front I tend to use ghouls only in units of 10 to screen and grab objectives so they mainly die quite fast.

1- As for the most common gunlines I have been facing, I have faced Skaven and cities of Sigmar. Both of them based around lots of dice which hurt me the most. Skaven was the worst, as they had the extra mobility from their tunnels.

2- The strategies used by both has been to have a huge blob of units all together, infantry first and all the shooters behind. Shoots, kills 1 unit and advances slowly with the army to move up the blob and eventually takes objectives.  The best thing I have done so far I think its to cast the barricade nearby him so they can't move fast enough, delaying the objective grabbing. At the beginning of the battle I always manage to grab objectives and hold them, but by the end my oponent has always tabled me. 

 

 

[kozokus]

On 10/27/2019 at 9:18 PM, Tikhunt said:

Have you found that flayers are better than horrors at the moment? I prefer the Horrors statwise but the sheer movement with fly really makes it seem flayers are the better choicep

They are very different. One is your swiss knife and the other is your hammer. Reroll to hit is a considerable bonus to make horrors reliable, even without rend. Perfect for cleaning 4+/5+ units. Flayers are assassins, they pack a lot of punch against  armored units and allow you to reach what you need to be removed.

I play with both.

[Supasnake]

Im playing my first game using FEC soon against an IJ player. I was planning on running a Crypt Horror list. Any advice for handling IJ and their Strength from Victory?

[Honk]

17 hours ago, Supasnake said:

Any advice for handling IJ and their Strength from Victory?

Haven’t played against new IJ yet, but old ones.

they rush and smash pretty hard and with what I saw last on MWG, they just got more of that.

positioning and counter charging hard could be viable. But Matthew ended up with some 2+\2+ 'ardbozys and I was like fuuuuuu  o.0  especially with all the extra saves they get.

if you’re able to use terrain and choke points to your advantage, to limit model counts, regeneration and debuffs to keep his elite units stuck in stupid combat and of course kill those buffing heros. Stupid shaman or warchanter...

the chalice sounds good to bolster regeneration where the fighting is thickest. But also the stampede could be viable for MWs but not really point and spellslot efficient 

the barrier or shackles might be better to block off a weak flank, but with a roll of 5 pretty easy to ban.

remember, that the IJ are kinda like I charge into stuff and my tactical acumen was on point. They tend to hold up pretty good and with the new waagh points and stuff, it’s kinda all they need to do.

you really have to manage the combats to your favor, nothing worse like your GKoTG stuck in melee with brutes. Let them fight the regen battle against 40 ghouls, while the king rampages through the  backlines 

glhf

[Evil Bob]

On 10/29/2019 at 8:19 AM, lemonicus said:

snip

2- The strategies used by both has been to have a huge blob of units all together, infantry first and all the shooters behind. Shoots, kills 1 unit and advances slowly with the army to move up the blob and eventually takes objectives.  The best thing I have done so far I think its to cast the barricade nearby him so they can't move fast enough, delaying the objective grabbing. At the beginning of the battle I always manage to grab objectives and hold them, but by the end my oponent has always tabled me. 

Corpsemare Stampede is your new best friend.  It only has to brush the edge of a base in a unit during the 14” move.  It cleans up single wound models reliably and it is a nice way to threat those 5-wound support heroes.  If you can tag at least three units in one swipe it is well worth it, it fizzles out on 4-wound model units.  Hit an opponent just once with this endless spell and he’ll either change strategy next game or dread encounters.

Terrorghiests like getting in tight with massed rats or low Bravery humans.  Screech on the guys the screen is trying to protect.  The exploding mortal wounds upon death is just cake.

[Honk]

7 hours ago, Evil Bob said:

Screech on the guys the screen is trying to protect.

Had a Legion of the Night match with two Tgs in ambush reserve against beasts of chaos.

those poor beastmen got counter ambushed so hard, two thirds died of heart attacks, rest of them reconsidered their life choices and took off...

[Evil Bob]

1 hour ago, Honk said:

Had a Legion of the Night match with two Tgs in ambush reserve against beasts of chaos.

those poor beastmen got counter ambushed so hard, two thirds died of heart attacks, rest of them reconsidered their life choices and took off...

Oh that is so delightfully dirty.  Mannfred must have been very pleased,

Locally the old gamer players seem to pull every army out now and then.  Except for Beastmen, it’s odd.  Slaves of Darkness show up now and then, 2k of Tomb King chariot army, various 90s metal mini’s without a regular book.  But no Beastmen armies...

[Honk]

1 hour ago, Evil Bob said:

Locally the old gamer players seem to pull every army out now and then.

Got a very nice compliment last game night: ... you always bring something crazy to the table...

30 years of playing undead leaves one with some options and I love funky lists

💀👍

[Fireymonkeyboy]

Anyone tried the Grymwatch in games yet?  Not really seeing any wider utility / synergy, but maybe I'm missing something?

FMB