AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[Fluttershy]

17 minutes ago, tea_wild_owl said:

it was mentioned in an earlier faq that "a roll of 6" means "a roll of 6 or more", so it uses the modified roll. only if the rule started "unmodified roll" it triggers on unmodified. I'll try to find the exact faq

think you're talking about Official FAQs and errata, Version 1.2 , page 4 :

"Q: How do abilities which trigger on ‘a roll of 6’ interact with modifiers? For example, if an ability states that it has an effect on ‘a wound roll of 6’ and the model has a modifier which adds 1 to their wound rolls, would a roll of 6 trigger that ability?

A: Yes. In the Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules, ‘a roll of 6’ is treated as being synonymous with ‘a roll of 6 or more’."

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/AoS_FAQ_The_Rules_v1.2.pdf

 

[Honk]

3 hours ago, wayniac said:

his units easily mulched through everything o

Sorry to hear, the really are a nasty bunch...

against such lists, I really do like horrors, with a normal GK at their side for rerolling and black hunger...

and 10 ghouls are nothing, except for speedbumps or homebase sitters.

and the terrorgheist is not performing against demons, a zombiedragon for double varghulf summoning would have been better.

two big units of 9 horrors, charging in with a king in range and black hunger... those bloodletters can see how they like that tombstone to the face.

 

but it is a tough challenge against a strong melee high synergy army.

[Mr. White]

Just finished 1K of FEC.

http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/17081-fec-chamber-of-the-bloodied-dawn/

It looks like:

GK

Terrorghiest

varghulf

ghast courtier

10 ghouls

10 ghouls

3 horrors

I'm going to be playing with a bunch of guys that are pretty experienced, whereas AoS is still new to me. I'll eventually learn my list and future options, but to hit the ground running and give my opponent a decent game, does anyone have any tips on how to run this list as is? Thanks!

Edited August 1, 2018 by Mr. White

[Reuben Parker]

On 7/31/2018 at 1:17 PM, Honk said:

Sorry to hear, the really are a nasty bunch...

against such lists, I really do like horrors, with a normal GK at their side for rerolling and black hunger...

and 10 ghouls are nothing, except for speedbumps or homebase sitters.

and the terrorgheist is not performing against demons, a zombiedragon for double varghulf summoning would have been better.

two big units of 9 horrors, charging in with a king in range and black hunger... those bloodletters can see how they like that tombstone to the face.

 

but it is a tough challenge against a strong melee high synergy army.

Yeah I am thinking of running a strong horror list next. I did also ask GW FAQ about the royal family additional model "add" as well but I guess they wont answer for 6 months until the next FAQ date. I guess if I take it to tournies will just have to ask the TO how they want to play it. As if they allow the add I would probably run less horrors and some courtiers.

 

GKoZD magestic horror, ITEM TBD

2*GK CP Brooch

6/9 Horrors

10/10/10 ghouls

Royal Family

Gravetide

Really no idea whats best on the GKoZD probably just Garland. Or maybe move away from CP farm (although I think it massively helps FEC) to another realm that can give power items (-1 hit / 4+ MW save / Cant be attacked first). Above list would be used for playing that the units can't be brought above starting size. If they can go above I might go a bit risky against first turn alpha strikes and 6/3 horrors and throw in 2 courtiers and a pendulum. 

[Honk]

8 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

royal family additional model "add" 

you add a fresh new ghoulking to your army...once (iirc), not really that strong.

I really don’t like 10 strong ghoul squats. 2attacks each, 4+\4+ no rend 1dmg each, they melt like butter and really don’t pack a punch.

Don’t know how GW can keep the 100 point price tag. Especially with the grimghast reapers around.

 

[Furious Robert]

4 hours ago, Honk said:

you add a fresh new ghoulking to your army...once (iirc), not really that strong.

Unless your General has Majestic Horror, the  you get 2 Ghoul Kings. They have flexibility in coming on the board at any edge.  The psychological impact is good. Especially if you are already summoning 2 Varghulfs or 2 x 3 Horrors.  Strong abush.

Agree with Ghouls being expensive compared to others.

 

[Honk]

22 hours ago, Furious Robert said:

Unless your General has Majestic Horror, the  you get 2 Ghoul Kings.

Yes, and it is a solid strategy, but comes with a hefty price tag especially with the need for baseline. 

[Furious Robert]

I've a 1.5k game tonight using this list. FEC are new to me so trying it out. I think I would fair better at 2k.

GKoZD (general)

GK x 2

10 Ghouls x 3

6 Horrors

Battalion - Royal Family

 

I'm worried that 6 horrors might not be enough. 9 would probably survive a double turn and then regenerate.  I had the choice between the battalion or 3 Horrors. Getting 2 GK, less drops, better regen from Varghulfs and extra artefact will hopefully be better.

 

 

 

[Reuben Parker]

2 hours ago, Furious Robert said:

I've a 1.5k game tonight using this list. FEC are new to me so trying it out. I think I would fair better at 2k.

GKoZD (general)

GK x 2

10 Ghouls x 3

6 Horrors

Battalion - Royal Family

 

I'm worried that 6 horrors might not be enough. 9 would probably survive a double turn and then regenerate.  I had the choice between the battalion or 3 Horrors. Getting 2 GK, less drops, better regen from Varghulfs and extra artefact will hopefully be better.

 

 

 

If you have choice just make your opponent go first every round as protects you from double turn. As you note the regen horror show is vulnerable to double turn. I’m a huge fan of royal family but it is better with endless spells (or realm rules) so you have something worth it for all the GK to cast. GW have basically said realm rules should be used so that does help the mass GK build. 

[TheWilddog]

Not a single FEC at Blackout, with almost a hundred players. Does not seem that our new summoning got people excited to bring the army. Guess we will see how it shakes out.

[kenshin620]

23 minutes ago, TheWilddog said:

Not a single FEC at Blackout, with almost a hundred players. Does not seem that our new summoning got people excited to bring the army. Guess we will see how it shakes out.

Well free summoning doesn't help too much if the units in question are still on the "meh-ok" side.

[CanHammer-darren]

ans You can only do it once in small min sized units.  Unlike some armies...

[Honk]

8 hours ago, CanHammer-darren said:

You can only do it once in small min sized units.

Double varghulf summoning with double ghoulkings sounds good, but you need all the CP you can get your hands on to pull that off.

that leaves you with less CP to run&charge or battleshock.

all in all we‘re talking about

320 points for the two varghulfs and 

280 points for two ghoulkings who could call in another

200 points of ghouls

800 points for a total of 4 CPs

I do think, that this is pretty strong for certain scenarios, but you’re not bringing any kind of filth to the table. 10 ghouls should wear yellow-black colors as speedbumps and their king is not really strong compared f.e. a megaboss.

you really need the magic phase to be strong, playing with endless and realm spells...

For ambush summoning, I‘m almost preferring a gkotg to summon a double team of horrors with majestic horror, only a single varghulf from a nearby  positioned gkozd to trigger the horrors... no need for royal family costs, but another big monster instead

Edited August 8, 2018 by Honk

[amysrevenge]

Yeah the more games I play (with other armies, but still...) the less "free" this summoning seems.  CP are just so valuable.

Edited August 8, 2018 by amysrevenge

[Glaurung]

They should let us add the summoned models to other units. That way I would play summon-heavy.

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Glaurung said:

They should let us add the summoned models to other units. T

Or combine summonings...

if you double cast from a gkotg or have two kings calling ghouls....

or rewrite the warscrolls from „return slain model“ to „add model to unit“, suddenly a ten men squat is useful.

 

If you compare 10 ghouls with 5 dogs you just cry...

[Glaurung]

Ghouls are overpriced for what they bring. Yes, they come back to life, but so do the dogs and they are faster. I don't understand why they cost more than skeletons...
I think that we should be able to summon once per turn, without the once per game limit. This or let us add to  a unit. LoN can resummon slained units, would be great if we could do it as well.

What I'd really love is a more specific focus for FeC: before LoN we were the one that came back, now we do it  more inefficiently than LoN does. Our troops  are not really strong. We rely heavily on heroes and don't really have the same tools to protect them that LoN has. They could just let us summon freely, going over initial unit size, coming from table edges. We should be a horde army, with many ghouls and horrors; last edition i found myself outnumbered by bloodletters... I'm really disappointed that I can't play this way and win games. Ghouls cost so much more than what they provide, horrors are ok, flayers too, but you can't play them both, because of battleline and points. We always need to have at least six of them in a unit, in order to not having it destroyed.

I just hope we get a new battletome, at some point... And a separate Gk on foot as well.

[Ulfast]

A question, when do we need to roll for feeding frenzy? Is it after we destroy a whole unit or just a model? Im new and we played it that a whole unit needed to be gone before we rolled for it. But that means that it hardly happend and of course rolling a 6 at right time is a little chance. So what is right?

I also agree a new book with new miniatures and units would be great. Also some changes to ghouls would be welcomed ?

[Glaurung]

Unit. That’s bad because we are not so killy and usually if we kill a unit, there won’t be another near.

Comparing to other allegiances, it’s really, really bad. I’d prefer it going off after attacks, if something died.

That way it would not be broken (1 every 6 times) and could solve the lack of hittting power.

[Ulfast]

Thanks Glaurung. Then I plaued it right and as you said, it´s actually a relly terribly ability. It would be ok(ish) if we rolled every time we killed some models and not a unit or if it happend on a 2+ instead (or why not both).  

[amysrevenge]

I played it model my very first game, and only realized my mistake afterward (I lost anyway so *shrug*).

[Honk]

Played today a 1k epic grind against Nurgle filth...

pretty pathetic pillow fight, but funny nonetheless. If only the GUO hadn’t loaded bricks into his. Overextending my varghulf costed me the win since I couldn’t recall enough ghouls...

30/30 ghouls +varghulf +king+ ghast vs 30/20 plaquebearers+ 3nurglings+ GUO

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Honk

[Glaurung]

10 hours ago, Honk said:

Played today a 1k epic grind against Nurgle filth...

pretty pathetic pillow fight, but funny nonetheless. If only the GUO hadn’t loaded bricks into his. Overextending my varghulf costed me the win since I couldn’t recall enough ghouls...

30/30 ghouls +varghulf +king+ ghast vs 30/20 plaquebearers+ 3nurglings+ GUO

 

This is something that I can’t accetta. Why do you have to play subpar against all newer armies? Like, he has a GUO and 50 plaguebearers, with -1 to hit.

You have... 60 ghouls? How can you kill that GUO? Let alone deal with the Demons...

It seems to me that others always get so much more for their points than we do...

I must stop the rant though, don’t want to overflow with negativity the topic

[Honk]

27 minutes ago, Glaurung said:

This is something that I can’t accetta.

Chill... my list was kinda stupid and actually I only lost because I charged my varghulf.

but you are right FEC really suffers against the new hotness

in 20/20 hindsight, I might have switched the varghulf for two ghasts... the GUO was killing things, but on the other hand was not going anywhere either. After my varghulf hit the dirt my regain didn’t match my losses anymore. 

 

And the demons don’t stand a chance...

Edited August 11, 2018 by Honk

[Grimnaud]

1 hour ago, Honk said:

but you are right FEC really suffers against the new hotness

So what would people do to leverage FEC's strengths as much as possible? At some point next year I'm looking at revisiting my FEC after a long hiatus, and treating them to some new paintjobs, flashy convgersions, and all around TLC. It's no big surprise that the flesh eaters have been left behind in the dust, but I'm pretty sure that there are still some fun middle of the pack lists hiding in there. My inital plan was to paint up an abbatoir list, but after seeing how quickly they got taken apart by DOK in a friendly game it was back to the drawingboard.

So the current plan is to paint up this list:

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Delusion: Crusading Army

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist (400)
- General
- Trait: Magestic Horror 
- Artefact: The Grim Garland 
Varghulf Courtier (160)
- Artefact: Blood River Chalice 
Varghulf Courtier (160)
Crypt Ghast Courtier (80)

Battleline
30 x Crypt Ghouls (300)
20 x Crypt Ghouls (200)
20 x Crypt Ghouls (200)

Units
6 x Crypt Horrors (320)

Battalions
Ghoul Patrol (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
 

With the changes to ghoul patrol (MAY rather than must deploy of table, and no max to the GP-additional ghouls), it is as far as I can see the best batallion FEC has access to. Three units of Ghouls also frees up the general spot for a King, which lets me put him on a terrorgheist and give him Majestic Horror for 320 free points at the top of one (before anyone blows him out of the water). Since the Flayer/Horror units I summon will 9 times out of 10 be outside the Kings bubble I'll probably go with flayers, but depending on how much room I'll have in the carry case, I might have some extra Horrors just in case. Terrorgheist, so the Grim Garland is the natural choice for the first artefact.

Now I'm not convinced that the unit of 6 Horrors is the optimal choice, especially with potential realm artefacts available for a second King on Terrorgheist/Zombie Dragon. But they were a staple in all my old lists, so I'm giving them a try. And since I at that point have both Ghouls, Horrors, and Flayers in my list, paying the extra 20 points for Varghulfs over Haunter/Infernal Courtiers seemed to make sense.

The downside is that at this point the list leans heavily into board controll, which is not the most entertaining way to play the game. But getting rid of the Ghoul Patrol units will take a significant amount of work. With three courtiers bringing back slain ghouls, while the batallion keeps increasing the unit size those units will increase by 15 d6 ghouls in total, with an average of 15 ghouls returned each turn.  They probably won't do much damage back, but the little buggers sure can take a punch.

So those are my two cents. What are everyone elses thoughts on making FEC more competative?