mrbedlam Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 2 hours ago, RocketMan said: Up ... you are going to seriously have a hard time if you just gimp yourself by restricting summons. The current rules of the game are fixed with summons in mind working the way they work. FEC loses too much momentum if they don't have access to summons as all our models are costed with that particular thing in mind. You wouldn't play Stormcast without Deepstrike, or Idoneth without their Tide Tables, there's no reason to play Flesh Eaters without their summon mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freejack02 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 2 hours ago, RocketMan said: Up ... Can you leave your list 400 points short, take the extra CPs, then summon the missing 400 first turn? If so, I think you could make that work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmanuel Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 I think wich the best Court if you will go to play an Gkot, is Gristlegore... The trait wich give your general the possibility to attack always first is amazing! And you can do it also in the opponent turn! Deadwatch was my favorite battalion, but 1 unit with 6 guys and 2 with 3 guys I think was very low health total.... The opponent can easily delete your unit in a one shot attak.... What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Congratz Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 So how good does FEC look? I'm considering getting the Carrion Empire box, but i don't know which army to take... Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutter Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Congratz said: So how good does FEC look? Verdict is still out, I guess. Lots of people like them, some find them too one-dimensional. Definitely super aggressive, so that playstyle has to suit you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 6 hours ago, mrbedlam said: you are going to seriously have a hard time if you just gimp yourself by restricting summons. The current rules of the game are fixed with summons in mind working the way they work. FEC loses too much momentum if they don't have access to summons as all our models are costed with that particular thing in mind. You wouldn't play Stormcast without Deepstrike, or Idoneth without their Tide Tables, there's no reason to play Flesh Eaters without their summon mechanics. It’s only way to play fec unfortunately here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, RocketMan said: It’s only way to play fec unfortunately here As said 20+ pages before - you NEED to CHANGE that dumb house rule and force people in your group not to be pussies about summoning, it's there for purpose and it's balanced ENOUGH to not be further restricted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, XReN said: As said 20+ pages before - you NEED to CHANGE that dumb house rule and force people in your group not to be pussies about summoning, it's there for purpose and it's balanced ENOUGH to not be further restricted I’m not the store manager, so I can’t change anything event though I asked (with other people on my side) to change or review it .... i bought carrion empire and a start collecting because I really like the model, it’s a shame that I can’t play them at full power but at least I would give em a try... if they doesn’t work at all I will stop buying other miniatures and going back to play stormcast 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, RocketMan said: I’m not the store manager, so I can’t change anything event though I asked (with other people on my side) to change or review it .... i bought carrion empire and a start collecting because I really like the model, it’s a shame that I can’t play them at full power but at least I would give em a try... if they doesn’t work at all I will stop buying other miniatures and going back to play stormcast Can you play casual games with normal summon at least? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, RocketMan said: I’m not the store manager, so I can’t change anything event though I asked So what do other players do? like beasts of chaos, nurgle or tzeentch?! Do indoleth players get to use their tides?! Beastclaw raiders their everwinter blessings?! Luckily I have a relativly laid back community around here, who sometimes crank it up or whine about all my cheesy stuff, while the ballistas carefully take aim at my varghulf. It’s tricky to have the right approach at such a thing. Maybe ask one (the most open one)... 1 hour ago, XReN said: force people in your group not to be pussies to be gender specific, maybe their just named „Male part with D gets autoblocked“... or both. Grab yourself one of the more laid back ones (or also house-rule oppressed), ask him to play with the official rules, because you’re thinking about a 1k tournament, while visiting your online friends in „far far away“. I‘m waiting, BBQ is ready... then build a sub-par easy peasy list (King, varghulf, ghast, 6horrors, 20/10 ghouls) and start working on that one guy. King only summons 10 ghouls, no big deal, 6horrors and the varghulf are tough enough not to make him suspicious of down-playing. then you a) have someone to play with and b) carefully start calling everybody a crybaby, because XY just wiped the floor with your OP summoning, c) rinse repeat and slowly crank it up Edited February 18, 2019 by Honk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soots Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, mrbedlam said: you are going to seriously have a hard time if you just gimp yourself by restricting summons. The current rules of the game are fixed with summons in mind working the way they work. FEC loses too much momentum if they don't have access to summons as all our models are costed with that particular thing in mind. You wouldn't play Stormcast without Deepstrike, or Idoneth without their Tide Tables, there's no reason to play Flesh Eaters without their summon mechanics. Im going to have to disagree with you there. We double pay for summons. we pay for our expensive units,, and we pay for courtiers. Prior to this, i didnt like the idea of taking in courtiers apart from either getting horrors to battleline or having horrors unit sizes 6+ (going for a specific build) With the new tome, you dont need courtiers to get horrors battleline, and having a courtier escorting 3 horrors is often not ideal because they will get deleted quite easily. We just have to pay the summon tax on our units for everything we do unfortunately. But it doesnt mean we have to commit all the way to full summoning. edit: to me, i feel like fec units suck unless you buff the hell out of it (excessively overpriced for chance to spend more points to synergize and get value). its going to be a deathstar type army. Edited February 18, 2019 by soots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 37 minutes ago, XReN said: Can you play casual games with normal summon at least? Unfortunately no casual, just light tournaments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, Honk said: So what do other players do? like beasts of chaos, nurgle or tzeentch?! Do indoleth players get to use their tides?! Beastclaw raiders their everwinter blessings?! Luckily I have a relativly laid back community around here, who sometimes crank it up or whine about all my cheesy stuff, while the ballistas carefully take aim at my varghulf. It’s tricky to have the right approach at such a thing. Maybe ask one (the most open one)... to be gender specific, maybe their just named „Male part with D gets autoblocked“... or both. Grab yourself one of the more laid back ones (or also house-rule oppressed), ask him to play with the official rules, because you’re thinking about a 1k tournament, while visiting your online friends in „far far away“. I‘m waiting, BBQ is ready... then build a sub-par easy peasy list (King, varghulf, ghast, 6horrors, 20/10 ghouls) and start working on that one guy. King only summons 10 ghouls, no big deal, 6horrors and the varghulf are tough enough not to make him suspicious of down-playing. then you a) have someone to play with and b) carefully start calling everybody a crybaby, because XY just wiped the floor with your OP summoning, c) rinse repeat and slowly crank it up I understand but it’s a rule that only the sm can change... what I see(and I spoke with many friends)is that lot of army that rely on summons have not been played since AoS 2.0 came out...a part from nighthaunt and LoN... i started fec cause I was tired of playing evocators ... there’s also another home rules: command ability doesn’t stack on same unit (eg. no sureheart ability x2/3 times to get an auto charge).... when I ask him to review these home rules, he says that without them aos would be unbalanced, that seraphon are op on summoning etc...even though I said that in a lot of tournament seraphon doesn’t make the cut XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, RocketMan said: Unfortunately no casual, just light tournaments How is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, RocketMan said: when I ask him to review these home rules, he says that without them aos would be unbalanced, that seraphon are op on summoning etc...even though I said that in a lot of tournament seraphon doesn’t make the cut XD Well, that guy sounds both as tough and intelligent as your common brick. Are there other places to play where you live? But I guess not if you still have to stick with all that nonsence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecktron Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, RocketMan said: I understand but it’s a rule that only the sm can change... what I see(and I spoke with many friends)is that lot of army that rely on summons have not been played since AoS 2.0 came out...a part from nighthaunt and LoN... i started fec cause I was tired of playing evocators ... there’s also another home rules: command ability doesn’t stack on same unit (eg. no sureheart ability x2/3 times to get an auto charge).... when I ask him to review these home rules, he says that without them aos would be unbalanced, that seraphon are op on summoning etc...even though I said that in a lot of tournament seraphon doesn’t make the cut XD Thankfully our command abilities dont stack anyways, so you dont have to worry about that at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, XReN said: Well, that guy sounds both as tough and intelligent as your common brick. Are there other places to play where you live? But I guess not if you still have to stick with all that nonsence. A part from my house, nothing else yeah, I don’t understand why stick with that limit. We decided to put it at the beginning of aos 2.0 because in a first couple of tournaments it looked a bit op but now a lot of people asked to remove it and he’s not ok with this ... and we Are Supposed to be a community Edited February 18, 2019 by RocketMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughwyeth Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 35 minutes ago, RocketMan said: I understand but it’s a rule that only the sm can change... what I see(and I spoke with many friends)is that lot of army that rely on summons have not been played since AoS 2.0 came out...a part from nighthaunt and LoN... i started fec cause I was tired of playing evocators ... there’s also another home rules: command ability doesn’t stack on same unit (eg. no sureheart ability x2/3 times to get an auto charge).... when I ask him to review these home rules, he says that without them aos would be unbalanced, that seraphon are op on summoning etc...even though I said that in a lot of tournament seraphon doesn’t make the cut XD Just play somewhere else. This is the worst kind of hobby store manager- arrogant enough to believe he understands the game better than literally every other AoS community on the planet who don't ban summoning to the extent that he's willing to make player's gaming experience qualitatively worse because of it. It's really worth looking at starting a group elsewhere. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, RocketMan said: Unfortunately no casual, just light tournaments What´s he playing? Ironjawz and leading the boards, stomping all the stupid other players... Well, I guess that´s settled then, sorry that you have such an **** **** **** **** as store manager (don´t want to recommend blackmailing to GW, although the idea came up) and the travel to the far away happy places, with all the cool gamer bros might not be available for everybody *sadface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Honk said: What´s he playing? Ironjawz and leading the boards, stomping all the stupid other players... Well, I guess that´s settled then, sorry that you have such an **** **** **** **** as store manager (don´t want to recommend blackmailing to GW, although the idea came up) and the travel to the far away happy places, with all the cool gamer bros might not be available for everybody *sadface He doesn’t play at all aos. That’s the problem. Judging without ever played. nice, isn’t it ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, RocketMan said: Judging without ever played How comes he is dabbling and house ruling around, if he is not even playing?!? what does he even know, where how and what your putting on the table? Can´t you just tell him to get back behind his counter or reorganize the magic cards and leave you to your games? I mean he sells pretty expensive miniatures and painting supplies (judging from my local), soooo... bring me coffee or get lost of curse depends if he even wants you and your kind in his shop... buying all the minis online, getting the paints in the artstore next door, only coming to play and bogging down the table for the whales who buy cards for 100$ before sitting down... I´d throw you out too ;-D we have table fees around here (about 2$/person) and what we´re doing and playing and whatever is not really a bother to him as long as reservations are kept and decency and stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadkitten Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, hughwyeth said: Just play somewhere else. This is the worst kind of hobby store manager- arrogant enough to believe he understands the game better than literally every other AoS community on the planet who don't ban summoning to the extent that he's willing to make player's gaming experience qualitatively worse because of it. It's really worth looking at starting a group elsewhere. Yeah, where's this guy's store? We'll all show up for the next tourney and just play real AoS and show him how it's done. Basically, this guy is format building. He's shaping the game to what his vision of AoS should be. Personally, I have no issues when a local group does this but it becomes something else when it is imposed top-down like this. Unfortunately, it sounds like your options are restricted. All you need is one other mate to break off and do your own thing. Community building is another thing but maybe something to consider. Ugh... The bookkeeping for that house rule must be a nightmare. do you just point out eveything on the table every turn? That would get real annoying real fast. @RocketManOn the other hand, this is definitely a new format which means there's a build floating around that over-performs. I'd look to that. Actually the FEC muster ability is pretty nice here. If you can only summon up to 2K then the Summoning abilities that stay at that limit are going to be ace. LoN is a perfect example here. The FEC Muster ability seems like it will play nice here as it allows you to hover at that 2K mark. I'd go with large blocks of the Flayers or Horrors backed up with characters to muster them back. Or the lean real hard into Royal Menagerie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbedlam Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Deadkitten said: Yeah, where's this guy's store? We'll all show up for the next tourney and just play real AoS and show him how it's done. Basically, this guy is format building. He's shaping the game to what his vision of AoS should be. Personally, I have no issues when a local group does this but it becomes something else when it is imposed top-down like this. Unfortunately, it sounds like your options are restricted. All you need is one other mate to break off and do your own thing. Community building is another thing but maybe something to consider. Ugh... The bookkeeping for that house rule must be a nightmare. do you just point out eveything on the table every turn? That would get real annoying real fast. @RocketManOn the other hand, this is definitely a new format which means there's a build floating around that over-performs. I'd look to that. Actually the FEC muster ability is pretty nice here. If you can only summon up to 2K then the Summoning abilities that stay at that limit are going to be ace. LoN is a perfect example here. The FEC Muster ability seems like it will play nice here as it allows you to hover at that 2K mark. I'd go with large blocks of the Flayers or Horrors backed up with characters to muster them back. Or the lean real hard into Royal Menagerie. In that case, ****** it, just play traditional ghoul spam and use courtiers plus chalice to keep you forces on the board, and when they die 50/50 chances they come back. If the dice gods love you, the sheer weight of numbers will spin in your favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Hey all, sorry if it's already been asked.. I've tried searching with little luck. Am I correct in assuming that Majestic Horror\similar abilities only let us summon in 1 unit per use (just that the single use doesn't require a CP anymore) or are you still able to summon in 2 units per 1 use? I'm going with the former but.. needed to be certain. Been awhile since I've looked through my FeC stuff. Also, is the consensus still on the Horrors over the Flayers outside of Deadwatch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbedlam Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Gwendar said: Hey all, sorry if it's already been asked.. I've tried searching with little luck. Am I correct in assuming that Majestic Horror\similar abilities only let us summon in 1 unit per use (just that the single use doesn't require a CP anymore) or are you still able to summon in 2 units per 1 use? I'm going with the former but.. needed to be certain. Been awhile since I've looked through my FeC stuff. Also, is the consensus still on the Horrors over the Flayers outside of Deadwatch? Just once. And the jury is still out on Flayers/Horrors. I think right now people are in the camp of spam flayers or spam big monsters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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