Masake Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 From ERRATA: "(i.e. Remove the keyword formatting from ‘Abhorrant Ghoul King’ in the rule; the rule should only affect models from the Abhorrant Ghoul King warscroll.)" - so it is not Abhorrant Ghoul King KEYWORD (It would enable GKoTG and ZD to use it). From Designers' Commentary: Q: Can a Ghoul King on Terrorgheist or Zombie Dragon use the Ruler of All He Surveys scenery rule from the Charnel Throne warscroll? A: No. Guess this solve all our problems! ahahahahah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleister Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 Well, before I knew these things, I had been debating if it was worth it to save cp by keeping my monsters near the Throne turn 1, or if it was better to just go ahead and get them into the fray. Now I don't even have to debate it, at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Mackay Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 7 hours ago, Masake said: So - here goes my opinion: - COURT: I wouldn't go Gristlegore without fully committing with BIG MONSTER list. You are losing a lot of potential just to buff - mainly - 1 unit (ZD is not as stronger as TG). Going Delusion - Feast Day is better - you will spend 2 CP for summoning first turn, so you won't have enough CP for Feeding Frenzy, Feast day solve this problem. - SPELL: Bonestorm is not good. You have better options like Monstrous Vigor and/or Miasmal Shroud - Spectal Host and Blood Feast are both good as well and you are already using it. - ZD: I don't like him apart from Horrors Heavy list. TG do it better - and with this change you could add another Endless Spell (Cogs will place you at 1900 and is amazing for making GKoTG re-roll failed saves and/or cast another spell). - TRAIT: The Death from Skies trait is not that good. First due to heaving to make a 9" charge - without CoGs will be hard. -Besides this, it is easy to counter with some zone Denial (having 440pts outside the table due to not having any good place to drop it is bad). For last, ZD is weaker than TG, I see him more as a support due to its Spell plus the Missile Shot, so is not worth thinking of it as a Alpha Strike Killer. - GHOULS: It is something that always pop up on the comments here - with ghouls, go big or go home! Use it as 10man tax for battleline or go for 40man unit with some buffs. - GHOUL PATROL: Is good as a BATTALION that cover our "battleline tax". But without a lot of ghouls in a unit and CoGs, is hard to make that first turn charge and engaging something in the eternal Ghoul TARPIT (Ghast + Chalice + 40model). - ENDLESS: Some say Stampede is Good, I think it is overpriced. I don't see many uses that make it worthy - but my prejudice with it made me not test - so I might be wrong. - ARTEFACTS: I think it will be much better giving a decent artefact for the TG - Ghryph Feather Charm or Ethereal Amulet - besides the Mawshard. I know you are paying it due to Gristlegore - changing for Delusion you could have this option. If still playing with Gristlegore, I'd change the Dermal Robe, give the TG a better artefact and use the Mawshard with the ZD or the 2nd TG. OVERALL: It's not a bad list - I'd say its an average one. If playing Casual games you won't have any problems, but still have a lot of room for improvement. i prefer Blisterkin but i dont yet have the models to really benefit (3x3 Flayers isnt quite good enough) im limited by the models i currently have, this is for a tournament in a few weeks however lists are due in a few days and i cant guarentee id have more stuff in time. i have 1 Terrorgheight, 1 Zombie Dragon, 2 Ghoul Kings, 1 Archregent, 2 Ghast Courier, 2 Infernal Courier, 1 Haunter Courier, 50 Ghouls, 3 Horrors, 9 Flayers, Flesh-Eater Spells and Throne. i dont currently have Malign Sorcery so i cant use anything from it ghoul units are 20,20,10 as thats all i have and the Challace seems more useful if ghouls are around. im trying to keep drops low and start with a few cp i doubt ill use Death From The Skies to be honest, but i couldnt think what else to give him, Archregent has Dermal Robe as i tend to use him for summoning the endless spells so +1 is helpful Ghoul Patrol i dont like, i think its overcosted after losing its old rules but staying the same points, its only in this list as i needed a battalion to lower my drops and for cp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 6 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said: ghoul units are 20,20,10 One could also try out 30/10/10 to have one resilient Blob. 6 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said: i doubt ill use Death From The Skies Necrotic fangs: Reroll maw damage ?! If you roll a 1-2 you might just try that again. Or, if you go against medium to high save armies the razor-sharp extra rend... the zombiedragon is not a bad unit, totally valid to use one. They just don’t have the ridiculous damage output the gheist has. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masake Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said: Ghoul Patrol i dont like, i think its overcosted after losing its old rules but staying the same points, its only in this list as i needed a battalion to lower my drops and for cp @Honk already mentioned topics that I'd... So I'm going to stick only with the Battalion. One thing that a lot of players tend to forget, is that you are not paying the Battalion value for its buffs, but for a plenty of upgrades. If we could split it, between those upgrades, the correct price could be something like this: - 50pts = For an extra CP - 50pts = For the 2nd Mount Trait (Forget to tell you, in my last comment, you can give just one Mounted Abhoorant the Mount Trait - plus one extra for other Abhorrant per Battalion. Works in the same way as Artefacts) - 50pts = For the 2nd Artefact (With a lot of strong options between Tome and Realm). - 30pts = For the Battalion buff itself - Free = The chance to choose the first turn order due to less drops. So... Of course that I prefer other Battalions like DEADWATCH, that are good and cost only 110pts. But saying that Ghoul Patrol is expensive, I don't think it is real "Expensive". Would you pay for those buffs above, seeing only its individual cost? Edited May 9, 2019 by Masake 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Mackay Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 33 minutes ago, Masake said: @Honk already mentioned topics that I'd... So I'm going to stick only with the Battalion. One thing that a lot of players tend to forget, is that you are not paying the Battalion value for its buffs, but for a plenty of upgrades. If we could split it, between those upgrades, the correct price could be something like this: - 50pts = For an extra CP - 50pts = For the 2nd Mount Trait (Forget to tell you, in my last comment, you can give just one Mounted Abhoorant the Mount Trait - plus one extra for other Abhorrant per Battalion. Works in the same way as Artefacts) - 50pts = For the 2nd Artefact (With a lot of strong options between Tome and Realm). - 30pts = For the Battalion buff itself - Free = The chance to choose the first turn order due to less drops. So... Of course that I prefer other Battalions like DEADWATCH, that are good and cost only 110pts. But saying that Ghoul Patrol is expensive, I don't think it is real "Expensive". Would you pay for those buffs above, seeing only its individual cost? Ghoul Patrol to me is exspensive because they kept it at the same points but took away its other rule (which was the only reason i used to run it pre 2.0 battletome). the extra artefact etc was still a factor back then as the points were determined in ghb18 with 2.0s release. additionally, i dont really think board edge 'deepstrike' for 3 units of ghouls, which has to be done in turn 1, is all that useful. im not saying its useless but rather its very circumstancal to want to do it, same with Death From The Skies mount trait, a Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon whos unable to cast spells when he turns up im not sure is worth doing. if you arent going first, those ghouls arent going to be very useful and are pretty much out of the game as your oppenent will block you from being able to bring them on anywhere but your own board edge so you lose a whole turn of movement vs just starting them on the board to begin with. Deadwatch is really the only battalion i see worth using for its actual rules (i dont have enough Horrors to run their battalion so probably havent looked into it properly). i miss the old Royal Family that was insanely hilarious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleister Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 15 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said: i prefer Blisterkin but i dont yet have the models to really benefit (3x3 Flayers isnt quite good enough) im limited by the models i currently have, this is for a tournament in a few weeks however lists are due in a few days and i cant guarentee id have more stuff in time. i have 1 Terrorgheight, 1 Zombie Dragon, 2 Ghoul Kings, 1 Archregent, 2 Ghast Courier, 2 Infernal Courier, 1 Haunter Courier, 50 Ghouls, 3 Horrors, 9 Flayers, Flesh-Eater Spells and Throne. i dont currently have Malign Sorcery so i cant use anything from it ghoul units are 20,20,10 as thats all i have and the Challace seems more useful if ghouls are around. im trying to keep drops low and start with a few cp i doubt ill use Death From The Skies to be honest, but i couldnt think what else to give him, Archregent has Dermal Robe as i tend to use him for summoning the endless spells so +1 is helpful Ghoul Patrol i dont like, i think its overcosted after losing its old rules but staying the same points, its only in this list as i needed a battalion to lower my drops and for cp I think you have the models for Blisterskin if you want to run it, and it would be good. +2" movement is good for everything, not just Flayers, and you don't have to do all Flayers for your Battleline just because you can. You could do: 1 GKoTG 1GKoZD 1 Archregent Infernal Couriers 6x Flayers 3x Flayers 40x Ghouls 10x Ghouls Just a rough list. You have some aggressive fliers that you can use the Blisterskin Command Trait on if you want, and all your stuff likes +2" move especially if you also get Cogs. Have the 40x Ghouls go murder stuff and the 10x Ghouls cap objectives. Or you could do 20 and 10 for the Ghouls, reserving the last 20 to bring in with Archregent, and cap lots of objectives while just slaying with the fliers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 20 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said: which has to be done in turn 1 But it doesn’t have to be the board edge, you can also partially set them up normally. Still 1CP, Blingbling and mounttrait... like @Masake stated. Keep a big unit on board, harass with two smaller units. Of course a fast opponent going first might block off parts of the board edge or objectives, but that also spreads him/her thin, if it is a valid tactic at all. all kinda personal preference I guess. Deadwatch comes with a hefty price tag, flayer or bust. Menagerie is kinda for fun only. Personally I want to try out the abbatoir against a horde opponent. Mortals on 6s for models within 3“, sounds like it might end funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finklelord Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Hello everyone! Fresh AoS player coming from 40K. I played a small amount of Fantasy before AoS hit and really loved the Vampire Count/Ghoul themed armies. So now I am back! With the new Battletome I had to jump in (plus I love their models), and looking to shoot for a 1000 point list to start learning the basics. Currently I own/ordered: -Abhorrent Archregent -Varghulf x2 (nice old metal ones) -Flayers/Horrors x6 -Ghouls x40 -Terrorgheist w/Ghoul King I am thinking leaning towards no Grand Court and picking a normal delusion. End game I am thinking Blisterskin because I like the need for speed. The current meta from what I am aware of is: -Skaven -Sylvaneth -Stormcast -Lizerdmen -Legions of Nagash -A form of Elves -Khorne of some sort (either daemons or not) Thanks for any help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Finklelord said: Thanks for any help! I haven’t see any questions and I need all the money I can get myself... Going flayers with feast day looks promising, but you’ll have to develop your own feel and preferences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruso Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 So yeah, played my first game of AoS today against some poor mortal Khorne worshippers. At 1k points AGKoTG was nuts and I felt a bit bad when fighting twice with it all the time. My list was: Spoiler Feast day Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist (Grim Garland, Savage beyond reason) Abhorrant Archregent 20 Ghouls 10 Ghouls (plus I had 2x3 Flayers for summon purposes) I'm not familiar with Khorne stuff, but my opponent had: Spoiler Priest Bannerdude A guy walking his angry dog 5 Berserkers 5 Berserkers Khorgorath 2x Skullcannon Altar thingy My turn 1. Scenario was Battle for the Pass. Deployed my ghouls as far forward as I could, the King and Archregent were in between the two. I took first turn and shuffled forward a bit for next turn objective grab, staying out of his charge range and just scoring my home objective with the King. Didn't summon yet. AGKoTG cast his signature spell on himself because Skullcannons. His turn 1 he came forward with everything. He told me later he underestimated terrorgheists movement, because he had never faced one before. He didn't succeed in his prayers. Skullcannons shot a couple of ghouls from my bigger unit. My turn 2 I rushed forward on left flank with smaller ghoul squad and the King. Bigger squad supported by Archregent advanced more carefully on right flank. I summoned both units of Flayers to left flank too. Flayers achieve nothing in shooting and fail their charges. I charged his berserkers and the guy with the dog with my King on his trusty steed. Then the mount ate everything in its vicinity by fighting twice for free because of Feast Day. Lost a couple of wounds because Berserkers apparently get to fight when they die. Some of the ghouls from smaller squads died too. On his turn 2 his remaining heroes decided to do something about the ravenous beast wreaking havoc amongst them. Skullcannons wounded the Kings mount seriously this time scoring 6 wounds. Prayers failed however and the heroes whiffed badly in combat. One was eaten by terrorgheist. The Khorgorath charged my bigger unit of ghouls on the right flank and killed a couple of ghouls and the ghouls scraped one wound off of it in return. The dice gods decided it should be his turn again. His turn 3, last hero he has is in combat with my King and his steed, Skullcannons rush to help. He tries to shoot the last remaining ghouls of my smaller unit to get Blood tithe points, but fails. Does a couple more wounds to terrogheist. Skullcannons in combat now too. His last hero gets bitten and dies. Skullcannons take some wounds. Khorgorath still wrestling with the ghouls, neither side gaining upper hand. After that it was quickly over. Terrorgheist ate the skullcannons and flew over to finish of Khorgorath too while Flayers were moving on to objectives in case the game was going to go on due to some blood tithe summoning shenanigans. Now this was my first game of AoS and I have to say, after 40k it felt really refreshing when stuff doesn't just get blown off the table by shooting. Terrorgheist was stupidly good in 1k although it certainly wasn't invincible. My opponent also should have had some chaff units I think. I hope I played my rules and buffs right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finklelord Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 18 minutes ago, Honk said: I haven’t see any questions and I need all the money I can get myself... Going flayers with feast day looks promising, but you’ll have to develop your own feel and preferences Sorry I should have clarified more in the original post. Was rushing to type this. My main question was is this a good start? I know there isn't a ton of models kit wise but I also don't wanna buy unnecessarily. Half of what I have is from a friend who got rid of his old Vampire Counts stuff. I was thinking of a list like this: Abhorrant Archregent Crypt Infernal Courtier -General -Dark Acolyte -Feast Day Abbhorrant Ghoul King Crypt Flayers x6 Crypt Ghouls x20 Gives me some good magic and summoning. Was thinking of giving the Infernal Dark Acolyte to add more buffs. Spells wise I am liking Deranged Transformation and Spectral Host. Will this list hold up in a casual/learning the game? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Finklelord said: Will this list hold up in a casual/learning the game? Sure it will, kinda... best list will not help the noob, but as I stated many times, you have to experience the models, their power and weaknesses to know what they can take on, where they have to hide and stuff. the classic king on terrorgheist (gkotg) is extremely strong with an archregent and the gristlegore court, but also with feast day. do not be afraid to fail, getting wrecked teaches the most. And always scream „for the lady of the lake“ when rolling charges!!! Edited May 10, 2019 by Honk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 On 5/8/2019 at 8:39 PM, Honk said: And they all can’t use the charnel throne, only the mighty Archregent may use it... Also the normale Ghoul king can. It was so also without the FAQs anyway. Cause GKoTG/DZ are not Archregent with SummonRoyal guard. The FAQs put everythinh on betterscreen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 (edited) First 3 games with FeC happened yesterday and today at 500. Since it's at such a low point value, I won't bother making reports for each but just summarize a few things. At 500, 20 Ghouls are just fine. Getting them up to 6 attacks per model is amazing.. but I really see them being less effective (mostly because they probably won't reach their destination intact) at higher points. I'll wait and see. Loving the Archregent, but I never chose to summon Flayers due to the absolute need of the Courtier in a Ghoul heavy list. Feeding Frenzy is just.. wow. Coming from mostly shooting\magic based armies, being able to pile in and attack twice with max 121 attacks RR 1's each time is just.. insane to me. Now granted, I threw ~70 at 20 Clanrats and only 8 got through after he rolled nicely on his saves but such is the game. So yeah, I'm liking them a lot. It's a nice contrast to the ranged heavy armies I'm used to. I feel I have a lot more to think about when it comes to the double-turn as I want to be close enough to charge if I do get it, but not close enough to get charged if I don't. Next week we go up to 750.. but I'm still debating if I want to throw in another AA + Chalice (or extra CP) or just bring a GKoTG and 30 Ghouls. Anyway, back to painting*. *I really wish I had those contrast paints now.. why couldn't the league have been next month? Edited May 12, 2019 by Gwendar typo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 33 minutes ago, Gwendar said: I threw ~70 at 20 Clanrats and only 8 got threw after he rolled nicely on his saves but such is the game. It always breaks my heart to roll all those dice and just cause a minuscule amount of casualties... at low points the gkotg is brutal, but makes your list very one dimensional. I‘d throw in the AA, just to summon stuff, maybe a bunch of horrors (haunter, regent, 10 ghouls, 6 horrors-740pts) within a blisterskin, they will be crazy fast, but a feast day is a day of feasting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Honk said: It always breaks my heart to roll all those dice and just cause a minuscule amount of casualties... at low points the gkotg is brutal, but makes your list very one dimensional. I‘d throw in the AA, just to summon stuff, maybe a bunch of horrors (haunter, regent, 10 ghouls, 6 horrors-740pts) within a blisterskin, they will be crazy fast, but a feast day is a day of feasting. Yeah well.. being a mainly Skaven player for the last 2 years, I just congratulated him for rolling that many 5+'s and getting 1's on his BS rolls. Completely opposite of what happens when I play mine. I had a game against Khorne and ~6 Ghouls(+2 attacks) wiped a unit 10 Blood Reavers, FF'd and dropped the 10 Bloodletters behind them down to ~3 if I recall. So yeah, I think he learned to not group everything 3" behind a paper-thin unit like Reavers. I only have a Varghulf as far as Courtiers unfortunately, but he's done well. I keep moving my Ghouls out of his 10" range so the last game I played I got down to 2 Ghouls left in a unit. I'm a bit limited on models for low point games, but I've been stuck between building Horrors and Flayers since I wanted to go towards Deadwatch at some point... but I know Horrors can do better in a lot of cases. My 1k-2k lists were mostly just going to be Gristlegore (like, FULL 2-5 TG Gristlegore) lists but I'm really enjoying having a horde unit that can actually hit in combat and isn't Clanrats for once in my life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Mackay Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 anyone have the warscroll cards and able to send me a picture of all the tokens? need those for the tournament but you cant buy them anymore so ill have to print them off if someone can send me the image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masake Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 13 hours ago, Honk said: It always breaks my heart to roll all those dice and just cause a minuscule amount of casualties... at low points the gkotg is brutal, but makes your list very one dimensional. I‘d throw in the AA, just to summon stuff, maybe a bunch of horrors (haunter, regent, 10 ghouls, 6 horrors-740pts) within a blisterskin, they will be crazy fast, but a feast day is a day of feasting. Indeed feast day is a day of feasting... Tried to play with Blister, even though I loved the high movement - the 10CP* free (1 feeding frenzy per turn) is awesome! Besides this, having the opportunity to tailor my list as it fits my style (trait, artefacts, etc) is better to me. For my style, feast day is still the best option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 55 minutes ago, Masake said: Indeed feast day is a day of feasting... Tried to play with Blister, even though I loved the high movement - the 10CP* free (1 feeding frenzy per turn) is awesome! Besides this, having the opportunity to tailor my list as it fits my style (trait, artefacts, etc) is better to me. For my style, feast day is still the best option. Yeah, still a bit up in the air on what I'll do. I think at 2k I'm just going to have fun with it and go full Gristlegore w/ Menagerie... that said, it seems the better lists are doing Feast Day with ~60 Ghouls and 2 GKoTG or something along those lines. I may even give Deadwatch a try using only 12 Flayers. So many options for so few units. These new tomes really are incredible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masake Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Gwendar said: Yeah, still a bit up in the air on what I'll do. I think at 2k I'm just going to have fun with it and go full Gristlegore w/ Menagerie... that said, it seems the better lists are doing Feast Day with ~60 Ghouls and 2 GKoTG or something along those lines. I may even give Deadwatch a try using only 12 Flayers. So many options for so few units. These new tomes really are incredible. I'm doing a lot of games with Feast Day Paired with Deadwatch with Flayers going as Battleline (Infernal General). Loving it so far... But, as you said, It is amazing seeing so many options with so little units. Edited May 12, 2019 by Masake 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Played at team tournament last saturday, 1000+1000 points per team, went for a meme Gristlegore list with TG General and 2 ZDs. Man that was sooooo bad, my friend's 60 grimghast in Sacrament list just carried us to 2nd place with 1 minor loss. Though to be fair we collected every shooting list on the tournament and that explains why monsters haven't performed. At first game I cleared a 100 plaguemonk screen and died in process to KO shooting, plague furnace and prayers, at second game skaven WLC exploded shooting down my general so my friend's necromancer become untouchable and scored the objective for the win, one of my ZDs got stabbed by clanrats and shot by jezzails, another one cut down by Khorne WOC unit with greatweapons. In third game we finally got 1st to 2nd double turn and steamrolled over our opponents... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, XReN said: that explains why monsters haven't performed. Well, you did opt out for the suicidal charge part of your team and it looks like you got the job done... congratulations Edited May 13, 2019 by Honk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, Honk said: Well, you did opt out for the suicidal charge part of your team and it looks like you got the job done... Yup, and that was fun. But it partly costed us first game where more resilient units could've gave opponents less points for determening who gets minor victory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j0lt Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 To someone returning to the Hobby and having severe "Armyitis" FEC are quite good for the fact you don't need to jump through hoops to get an army. Now how many start collecting boxes do I buy 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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