AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[AverageBoss]

Overall I feel the meta has vastly overestimated FEC, and is vastly underestimating Skaven.

[Bomma]

Anyone got any handy hints or builds for taking on Nagash? Played against him on Sunday and got soundly beaten.

Mainly his spell casting abilities and spell denial abilities I think?

B.

[XReN]

11 minutes ago, Bomma said:

Anyone got any handy hints or builds for taking on Nagash? Played against him on Sunday and got soundly beaten.

Mainly his spell casting abilities and spell denial abilities I think?

B.

Alpha strike his sorry ass out of existence. I'd probably go with Blisterskin with chronomantic cogs to reach him first turn and start murdering his army

[TheWilddog]

4 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Overall I feel the meta has vastly overestimated FEC, and is vastly underestimating Skaven.

I honestly think this will prove true over the long run. Don't get me wrong wrong, our book has a lot of raw power but the Skaven book has so many powerful options that it will be able to adapt to a variety of metas over the course of its lifetime. Guess time will tell.    

[kenshin620]

5 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Overall I feel the meta has vastly overestimated FEC, and is vastly underestimating Skaven.

Yea over at the Skaven topic, some people are talking about how Plague Monks may possibly be the most overpowered unit in the entire game, not just in the skaven book. I mean they have 3 attacks already with blade and staff, get 2 more for charging, get 2 more with a prayer, gain +1 To Hit and To Wound with overwhelming mass, natural 6 to hit gives 1 rend, natural 6 to wound gives 2 damage, can stack on a verminlord corruptor to give rerolls to hit, and for extra fun stack on death frenzy from a grey seer so suddenly those plague monks are going out swinging like khorne blood warriors.

 

I think one of the reasons for the emphasis on FEC is that because of the small unit pool, it is far easier to get an overview of how the army works, compared to skaven.

[Honk]

1 hour ago, XReN said:

Alpha strike his sorry ass out of existence. 

... 16hp 3+\6++ ...

sicken a gkotg on him

droppot massacre a bunch on flayers

... tricky part against a competent opponent is finding the angle for an approach. If he is screened properly, you’ll have to get creative 

[XReN]

14 minutes ago, Honk said:

... 16hp 3+\6++ ...

sicken a gkotg on him

droppot massacre a bunch on flayers

... tricky part against a competent opponent is finding the angle for an approach. If he is screened properly, you’ll have to get creative 

All you really need is space and time to outcap him, last time I faced Nagash at tournament it was he who was doing the initial engagement, because I took the first turn to get on points and it was a battle down to the wire when he tabled me but I had chances until the roll-off for 5th turn. 
Soooo that makes me think that if I had enough speed I could have won by starting a fight as early as turn one and inside his deployment zone, considering that my gristlgore general went down from hand of dust without touching anything I think all-out assault can shatter LoN army leaving them very small chances to fight back

[Honk]

4 minutes ago, XReN said:

if I had enough speed I could have won by starting a fight as early as turn one

Sooo, like you said earlier...

dropbomb flayers on his sorry butt!!!

Hide away in the corner (30+“ away) cogs, hunger them up, mortar them into Nagashs backyard, call in support varghulf.

[Evil Bob]

On 3/17/2019 at 9:57 AM, Deadkitten said:

Oh and  Brets as FEC would be fine in just about any scene I expect.  You just might need to tell your opponent the inside joke if they don't get it.

So last Wednesday  a group of us ran a 3 verses 3 random draw big-battle.  There were just enough points to bring a Deathwatch list with the Fest Day delusion.  While doing my one drop force friendly greetings to my “fair elves” ally (she was playing Slanaesh) and declared my nobel intentions for the battle.  When declaring an attack I always referred to my unit as Pegasus Knights and every spell was spoken in garbled gibberish.

The insane number of out-of-sequence attacks might have draw a harder reaction if not for the all Eel Elf force that got +1 attack on every melee weapon profile or the Bravery 10 goblins that always attack first.  Honorable meantion to Iron Jaws, they still fight hard with an AoS 1.0 book, when they get an update we are all screwed.  ;D

Edited March 19, 2019 by Evil Bob

[Honk]

25 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

when they get an update we are all screwed

In competent hands they still pack a punch for casual games/players... 

[kenshin620]

For Hollowmourne, is it worth making a hero hunter with a Varghulf general with the Bilious Decanter? (so need one battalion)

 

Seems pretty cool but also risky since if you can't get to the artifact bearers, Grave Robber+extra attacks is wasted. On the other hand that Varghulf gets scary if it works (6 extra attacks and extra damage on all attacks against that hero).

[Kaz]

2 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

For Hollowmourne, is it worth making a hero hunter with a Varghulf general with the Bilious Decanter? (so need one battalion)

 

Seems pretty cool but also risky since if you can't get to the artifact bearers, Grave Robber+extra attacks is wasted. On the other hand that Varghulf gets scary if it works (6 extra attacks and extra damage on all attacks against that hero).

Hm from what I’m reading in my book, that would be a good idea! He’s tough, and he’s fast, so he can hunt heroes. On the other hand, you could have him just slide right up to that enemy hero, whisper in his ear, “thanks for breakfast”, then whack the ever-loving 💩 out of the closest enemy unit. The grave robber thing seems to work if you’re within range, rather than if u actually hit the artifact Bearer, which is pretty funny. Plus, you could bring an archregent to buff your Varghulf! It does make fluff sense as your archregent appoints your Varghulf as general of the force, so while your terrifying abhorrent emperor sits upon his glorious throne, and sips blood martinis, your Varghulf just runs around with +D3 +2 +1 attacks on ALL his melee Weapons, and +1 Damage!!! By Nagash that’s scary awesome. 

On the other hand, i’d say probably be best to spread out the artifacts/traits so it’s not too concentrated on one varghulf (maybe?) 

[kenshin620]

Yea thats the big problem, all the egg baskets on one varghulf (and also for one turn for the artifact), and hes not that hard to kill.

But yea you dont have to attack the artifact bearer, just be in striking distance. And of course pop off feeding frenzy for double combat fun! And dont forget reroll to wound rolls of 1 for hollowmourne courtiers on a charge! 

I think it would be an interesting fun one trick pony/mega distraction carnifex kind of build if you're feelign lucky.

 

[XReN]

That is an interesting idea, I d like to try it against our SCE player who bunkers behind a wall of sequitors to jump over and tear his general

[IneptusAstartes]

On 3/18/2019 at 9:06 AM, AverageBoss said:

Overall I feel the meta has vastly overestimated FEC, and is vastly underestimating Skaven.

Wait so are FEC bad then?

[XReN]

9 minutes ago, IneptusAstartes said:

Wait so are FEC bad then?

No, why you thought that?

[Kaz]

4 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Yea thats the big problem, all the egg baskets on one varghulf (and also for one turn for the artifact), and hes not that hard to kill.

But yea you dont have to attack the artifact bearer, just be in striking distance. And of course pop off feeding frenzy for double combat fun! And dont forget reroll to wound rolls of 1 for hollowmourne courtiers on a charge! 

I think it would be an interesting fun one trick pony/mega distraction carnifex kind of build if you're feelign lucky.

 

It’ll be more of a “beer and pretzels” thing to do; it would most definitely surprise people, and it would be pretty funny as well. The fact that Varghulf can fly and heal himself makes him a great candidate for this. 

After lots of reading the book, I do really like Hollowmourne. It’s quite efficient, the command trait is great on any mobile general (Varghulf or mounted kings), and the artifact will almost always pull some weight. Plus, I love that both Courtiers and ALL your knights benefit. So Flayers, infernal Courtier, Haunter Courtier AND Varghulf would enjoy those re-rolls! 

1 hour ago, IneptusAstartes said:

Wait so are FEC bad then?

Nah, they ain’t bad. They got a great battletome that is strong, some even say overpowered. In fact, they’re called op by everyone because of how small the book is. As a result, it’s easy to see the stronger combos that seem ridiculous. 

Gristlegore and Feeding frenzy (especially feast day). It’s pretty strong. The book is quite small, hence seeing the synergy, piecing them together is somewhat easier than with Skaven. 

In reality , my brother has been looking at his Skaven book, and to put it simply, it is actually very strong. 

Plague monks are one of the most points efficient units in the game, when proper buffs are on them nothing can survive, while they cost a trivial amount. Lots of ways to ignore battleshock, Warp Lightning cannon is actually really good now (especially with battalion), although stormfiends got weakened, Warp stone sparks are still very good. Verminlords, plague furnace, screaming bell were massively buffed. 

It’s just that for Skaven, the synergies are less obvious because of how large the battletome is, but when put together by dedicated players, they are incredibly powerful. That’s why it doesn’t seem obvious at first glance, and hence why it’s so easy to underestimate them. 

And remember, the biggest mistake when it comes to any small-ish sneaky faction (Skaven, goblins, etc.) is underestimating them!  

[Masake]

On 3/16/2019 at 6:04 AM, Fluttershy said:

1k list - called the "friend-maker"

(needs 2 Start Collecting Boxes.. convert 1 Ghoul King to Archregent)

 

Gristlegore Grand Court

LEADERS

1x Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)

General - Command Trait : Savage Strike - Artefact : Ghurish Mawshard - Lore of Madness : Blood Feast - Mount Trait : Gruesome Bite

1x Abhorrant Archregent (200)

Lore of Madness : Spectral Host

BATTLELINES

 

1x Royal Terrorgheist (300)

1x 10 Ghouls (100)

 

Summon 2x 3 Flayers/Horrors

 

imo the fastest way to get in FEC - and the fastest way to get out of em because everyone will hate you

I'm goint to something similar, maybe buying 3 SC + Varghul! Them trying to convert both the Arcregent and the Charnel Throne!

You guys have any tips for this two conversion... is it worth trying to? Archregent and Charnel Throne!
 

[kenshin620]

8 hours ago, Masake said:

You guys have any tips for this two conversion... is it worth trying to? Archregent and Charnel Throne!
 

Could put the Mage Wrath Throne on a higher platform, it's half the price of the throne.

Edited March 20, 2019 by kenshin620

[Fluttershy]

13 hours ago, Masake said:

I'm goint to something similar, maybe buying 3 SC + Varghul! Them trying to convert both the Arcregent and the Charnel Throne!

You guys have any tips for this two conversion... is it worth trying to? Archregent and Charnel Throne!
 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Fluttershy

[Fluttershy]

christmas comes early this year..

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/21/who-fights-first/

" However, before we finish, it’s worth noting that although a phase is split into three parts (Start, During, End), things that happen at the start and end of the phase still count as happening in the phase in question. So, an ability that allows a unit to fight again after it has fought for the first time in the combat phase will apply to units that fight at the start or the end of the phase as well as during it. "

 

that fixed my inner logic routines   *g*

[Asamu]

On 3/18/2019 at 1:48 AM, Kaz said:

And being a khorne player, I noticed that the mounted kings and the monsters w/o riders seem incredibly overpriced. 400pts for a mounted TG or ZD, and that’s equal to skarbrand.

 Granted, the mounted kings can summon, but what about the monsters without a rider? They are literally 300pts each, and can’t be summoned and can’t be mustered, which is equal to Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage, more ex than an Unfettered Fury, both of whom are heroes with command abilities, access to traits AND artifacts

 and then there are dankhold Troggoths that aren’t even monsters, and that trick with Fight Another Day Loonboss, who are both still cheaper than terrorghesist and zombie dragons w/o riders who honestly don’t seem op at all, in fact they seem REALLY overcosted

Eh, they're pretty good for 300-400pt monsters really. They don't degrade much, they're super fast with 14" flying move, and they can cast spells, regenerate, and have a decent shooting attack.

Skarbrand is fairly slow, can't regenerate wounds, and only has a 4+ save; he's pretty easy to kill with shooting or by running something faster into him and striking first. The other BTs are actually weaker than a Terrorgheist/ZD in combat, are slower, degrade harder, and don't regenerate.

It's pretty fair imo.

[Honk]

36 minutes ago, Asamu said:

they're pretty good for 300-400pt monsters really.

+1 👍

a 300 points Tg might be a bit pricey, but with a 140 points Gk... suddenly 40 points discount, cool spell, mount trait from hell (thing deals 12 wounds minimum), auto-include in all the hero skills and also summons 160 points (240 net costs) of knights, kinda where you need them...

[Kaz]

5 hours ago, Asamu said:

Eh, they're pretty good for 300-400pt monsters really. They don't degrade much, they're super fast with 14" flying move, and they can cast spells, regenerate, and have a decent shooting attack.

Skarbrand is fairly slow, can't regenerate wounds, and only has a 4+ save; he's pretty easy to kill with shooting or by running something faster into him and striking first. The other BTs are actually weaker than a Terrorgheist/ZD in combat, are slower, degrade harder, and don't regenerate.

It's pretty fair imo.

Hm. The mounted kings are fine imo, it’s the monsters without a rider. The terrorgheist might be ok (That Famged Maw is insane), but compared to a Bloodthirster? I’ve played with them before, and I can safely tell you that they are dangerous. That 2+ to hit is terrifyingly strong for Wrath of Khorne, while the Insensate Rage has the ability to damage your entire army (Last time I saw one destroy almost half an army in one combat phase bef the book).  their melee attacks  are really reliable. 

I think my biggest gripe is the 4+ to hit. ZD and TG without riders have a 4+ to hit and can’t use mount traits, and from experience, that 4+ to hit is a HUGE pain in the butt. Plus having random damage feels... really awkward in terms of their damage output (this is of course without taking into account all the potential buffs) 

But meh. I still love the battletome (The lore is awesome), and I feel that too many people are going on and on about how op FEC are and blatantly forgetting how strong the Skaven actually are, which I do find supremely annoying 

[Nullius]

Hey all, if this question has been addressed elsewhere I extend my apologies: the Charnel Throne, rules as written, seems to suggest that it would confer the ability (within 1”) to use the Summon Men at Arms command ability to any ABORRANT GHOUL KING. Both the fella on the terrorgiest and the one on the zombie dragon have precisely that keyword. Do you all think they should be able to summon ten ghouls to a battlefield edge when near the throne? Or was this wording an oversight?