AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[Kairos Tejedestinos]

1 minute ago, Gdead909 said:

We must play it differently. When i run the cloak that person fights last that way I know he never gets hit

That's the ideal scenario yes. Still doesn't mean it's the only way, and since our big monsters get to attack twice while you have the CP, even if your opponent can strike back, it's not a given he will be able to do much about it.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Kairos Tejedestinos

[Deadkitten]

6 hours ago, Gdead909 said:

We must play it differently. When i run the cloak that person fights last that way I know he never gets hit

At this point I think we're quibbling.  The "once per game" nerf to the Cloak doesn't make it worthless.

[Gdead909]

35 minutes ago, Deadkitten said:

At this point I think we're quibbling.  The "once per game" nerf to the Cloak doesn't make it worthless.

Its not worthless there are just better choices thats all.

[Fluttershy]

reduced to one ability per battalion

Deadwatch reduced to 1 unit in your hero phase 😪

 

[JackStreicher]

I‘ve started a blog where you can find all the FeC Bits created so far.

next up: Terrorgheist armoring, so your royal steed truly looks royal!

[RocketMan]

any suggestions on a list for a tournament in which i cant' summon folks if the total amount of the actual miniature exceed starting list points? 
(i know it's a non sense hr but still valid here)
was thinking about blisterskin and spamming flayers

[XReN]

32 minutes ago, RocketMan said:

any suggestions on a list for a tournament in which i cant' summon folks if the total amount of the actual miniature exceed starting list points? 
(i know it's a non sense hr but still valid here)
was thinking about blisterskin and spamming flayers

How big (pointswise) is the tournament, what models you have / will have available when it comes?

[RocketMan]

59 minutes ago, XReN said:

How big (pointswise) is the tournament, what models you have / will have available when it comes?

i think 2000pts. Right now i only have 1 sc and 1 carrion empire, but have some friends that can lend me some pieces (terrorgheist, ghouls, horrors, maybe some courtier)

[Mutter]

You could take GK on TG or ZD, and 3 TGs/ZDs as battleline, all in Gristlegore. You can fit in the Chalice, too. Will make for quick, brutal games.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Mutter

[mrbedlam]

2 hours ago, RocketMan said:

any suggestions on a list for a tournament in which i cant' summon folks if the total amount of the actual miniature exceed starting list points? 
(i know it's a non sense hr but still valid here)
was thinking about blisterskin and spamming flayers

I honestly wouldn't play FEC in that kind of tournament. A lot of power comes from being able to summon on turn 1 and put immediate pressure on the board.

[Diablo]

waaaaah i m so angry!

I bought the new book yesterday  and saw that ghoul patrol was nerfed,  they have lost the best ability  that was my favorite battalion ,

and why does it still cost 180p?

I am so disappointed

 

[Mutter]

1 hour ago, Diablo said:

I am so disappointed

I've been playing GW games for 25+ years, and one thing that I learned over all the years: if there's something really powerful in a book, it'll get nerfed into the ground in the next edition.
This definitely applies to Ghoul Patrol.

But there's lots of other yummy stuff in the new tome. We'll all find something else to exploit.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Mutter

[Crispin]

Quick question, for royal managerie can you take two terror gheists and one GK on TG as the three? Also, how many points is it?

[XReN]

6 minutes ago, Crispin said:

Quick question, for royal managerie can you take two terror gheists and one GK on TG as the three? Also, how many points is it?

You can't

[XReN]

18 minutes ago, Mutter said:

But there's lots of other yummy stuff in the new tome. We'll all find something else to exploit.

Sad that it stayed the same cost though

[RocketMan]

Yeah gk on tg + 2 tg and a zd ad battleline. An archregent and an unit of flayers ? 

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, XReN said:

Sad that it stayed the same cost though

After listening to a podcast about comp. FeC it seems like prettz much only our ghouls, kings the Varghulf and monsters are viable. Our "knights" weren't spoken of too well XD

[Gecktron]

I played a small test game against the new skaven and I found the Crypt Flayer to be fragile but quite useful. 14" movement in a Blisterskin army is good and their screams gives us at least some form of shooting (of course, this only really works against low-bravery armies). The ability to generate MWs shouldn't be overlooked. Add ferocious hunger or feeding frenzy and you have a heavy hitter. 

[Mutter]

41 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

After listening to a podcast about comp. FeC

Well, if I listened to the same podcast, those guys thought the ZD was much better than the TG.
I think they're selling the Flayers short.

[flamingwalnut]

So, if I read correct and unmounted Terrorgeist and Zombie Dragon are the same...would you ever really run a Zombie Dragon over a Terrorgeist?

The Dragon starts with more claw attacks and has a more reliable breath weapon, but the potential healing and gaping maw seems...so much better. And if you actually focus on reducing bravery, the breath weapon evem starts to favor the Terrorgeist!

It is sad, as running a bunch of Zombie Dragons was my draw here, though for narrative purposes. I can fake it, and will play what is more fun and successful anyways, but sad the dragon looks meh. 

For mounted as well, the dragon holds out a LITTLE better due to a "better" spell but that is not cut and dry. Summoning Courtier vs. Summom Knights seems to depend on the list and scenario, so that's a wash, I supppose?

[Kairos Tejedestinos]

11 minutes ago, Mutter said:

Well, if I listened to the same podcast, those guys thought the ZD was much better than the TG.
I think they're selling the Flayers short.

I didn't listen to the podcast, so i can't comment on it, but i started collecting flesh eaters thinking about a monster smash list, and now that i had seen the book i am torn apart, so few units, and so many options.

[Honk]

36 minutes ago, flamingwalnut said:

It is sad, as running a bunch of Zombie Dragons was my draw here,

You can, MWG Luka just played such a list, 2x Zd, 1xTg and a GkoTg... with the Menagerie even the Zd could heal.

It is quite tricky, and he lost due to VPs and an oversight in positioning but such is life

[Sedraxis]

Let's play the new stuff and lists first before we all decide what sucks and all.

Most reviews and podcasts I've seen/heard have varying opinions and seem to misread and misunderstand a lot of rules, and not all of them are necessarily good at the game either 

[WoollyMammoth]

OK I took a closer look at the rules and came up with some highlights for list building with each Grand Court:

Morgaunt: take a ton of ghouls. They are easily getting 3 attacks over 10 models instead of 20. So take like three Archregents and summon 3 more units of 20 ghouls. Then - if any of them are slain you can use a command point - on a 4+ the unit re-appears at the board edge. Then you have to take an artifact (give to general) - no battleshock for units wholly within 18" of the general. You have 3 Archrgents so you should be able to cast his spell easily. One nuance here is your ghouls have to be close to a courtier to get extra attacks on the 10+ models so you have to keep that in mind.

Hollowmourne: Horrors/flayers and courtiers are re-rolling wounds of 1 when they make a charge. (Note that Horrors already re-roll all hits ww 18" if Abhorrent). Horrors are BL so that is more flexibility.   You can take a GKoTG general who gets +1 to all attacks and damage within 3" of an enemy artifact of power (must take artifact, so I'd put it on a TG Abhorrent). The command is +1 to run and charge rolls, and you can run and charge!! combine that with the move spell, Horrors are moving 12+D6+1", flayers are moving 16+D6+1". Also there is no limit to the command so you could save 3CP and give a unit of ghouls +3 to run and +3 to charge (not 100% sure). Plus imagine with cogs..

Blisterskin, +2 to all move. This is a Flayer lovers court but it has some nice things; teleport flying units 9" from enemies for 1 CP,  extra CP each turn on 4+, and an artifact that makes the general and everything ww 6" -1 to shoot.

FLAYER RANT
Their seems to be a lot of talk about Blisterskin and how good Flayers are. Personally I've never jumped on the 'mass flayer' bandwagon, and I don't think they are all that amazing still. The average roll on two dice is 7, that means outside of combat they aren't doing any mortals with their shooting unless the targets bravery is under 5 (sorry skaven). You could take the dual minus-bravery artifacts to get your average 7-8 bravery unit down to 4-5, then each Flayer is averaging 2-3 mortals which gets to be strong. Also around the Throne units have -1 bravery and several endless spells reduce bravery too.  Unfortunately the potential to pinpoint all this stuff for maximum effect just sounds clunky. I like it for Terrorgheists however - take the trait for +1 shriek rolls and the pennant for -2 bravery. (the reviews haven't gone over the limitations on steed traits, so I'm assuming they are like Stormcast).  That is reducing the average 8 bravery to 6, while the average Shriek roll is going to be 11 - were starting at a 5 mortal average before you factor in the Courtier artifact, the Sinister Throne or any number of endless spells! There is also a new spell to use the top of the damage table, so you can pull this out late game too.  Don't get me wrong - bring a unit or two of Flayers to double down on these effects, I just personally wouldn't build a whole army around Flayers alone.

Gristlegore: this one is crazy. monsters as battleline, and hero/monsters cause 2 hits instead of one on um 6s. If a monster dies before it was picked to attack you can use a CP to have it attack. But most importantly the general attacks BEFORE any unit is chosen to attack in the combat phase (then you can use Feeding Frenzy to attack again! On  a mounted Abhorrent, this is nutso and probably what I'm most excited to try at launch. 

Here's a funny list ... 6 Archregents (120) around a throne, summon a ton of stuff for free. Then have a corpse cart and mortis ally for +2 to cast and take a ton of endless spells. now you have 12 spells at +2 to cast. You also know every spell from the lore, and your chance to roll a 10+ (to get bonus effects) is very high.  You could do this with any Court, and maybe take less Archregents if you need more points in your main army. 

[Pangu]

5 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

After listening to a podcast about comp. FeC it seems like prettz much only our ghouls, kings the Varghulf and monsters are viable. Our "knights" weren't spoken of too well XD

There is no doubt that all of our potential battleline options are pretty bad, especially the knights.

Compare Horrors to any other medium sized infantry, like Bullgors. Bullgors are considered a mediocre unit and they are better in almost every way, they are cheaper, do more damage, do mortal wounds, have a better save and a better heal.

People are excited for Flayers thinking they are going to be this amazing alpha strike unit with deadwatch and blisterskin.  There damage output is still really poor, they are completely reliant on Feeding Frenzy to do any work. That doesnt meld well with them flying off away from your army since you need to be completely within 12" of a hero to get the buff off.  They are also so squishy that they are unlikely to survive the retaliation from your opponent to get to use the Deadwatch ability. This is easily the most overrated unit in the book and I feel people are going to be incredibly dissapointed when they get them on the table. They are best at hovering around the edges of the battlefield playing cleanup and picking off isolated units, they are not a hammer.

Even ghouls are aweful if you compare them to similarly classed units. They are inferior in every way to Plague Monks and are vastly more expensive. 

All of our non-hero units are 30-40pts overcosted. This puts us in a situation where we are incentivized to max out on our overly efficient characters and minimize our other units. I actually think the podcast gives more credit to some units than they deserve. Anyways, they are very correct in that we have very limited competitive options. Either you go monster mash or you focus on abusing Archregents. Anything focused on knights cant get enough wounds or damage output on the table to be effective.

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Pangu