AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[tea_wild_owl]

6 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Don't know if this has been brought up yet, but would this:

Combined with the Terrorghiests maw rule mean that a 6 to hit would inflict 12 Mortal Wounds, or would it be 6 Mortals and a separate to wound roll for D6 damage?

no, you would trigger both effects separately. you get 6mw for the roll of 6 (for which the attack sequence ends) and then you would generate the extra attack (with wound and save roll). this exact example is in the faq (and was already cleared one to two pages before)

 

[Fluttershy]

2 minutes ago, Katz said:

as I read it, you get 2 hits of unmodified 6 meaning 12MW.

no.

FAQ CORE RULES Designers’ Commentary, December 2018

Q: Sometimes a dice roll will trigger an effect. For example, a weapon might have a rule that says a hit roll of 6 causes two hits on the target instead of 1. What happens if another effect applies to the same roll? For example, the weapon from the previous example might have a rule that says it inflicts D6 mortal wounds on a hit roll of 6 and the attack sequence ends – would I get to inflict two hits that each inflicted D6 mortal wounds?

A: When a dice roll triggers more than one effect, each effect is triggered once. For this example, this means that the hit roll would cause two hits, but only one of the hits would inflict D6 mortal wounds (you would carry out the rest of the attack procedure for the other hit normally).

[Charlo]

Guys literally scroll up this was answered a few posts before

[Mutter]

Answered multiple times!

Edited February 13, 2019 by Mutter

[warhammernerd]

5 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

if anyone is interested: I might upload some bits to shapeways. these bits should provide a bit of armour /weaponry for your "knights". 
The first few uploads will be testruns since getting the scale right is pretty hard 😃

 

Any wishes for amor bitz you'd liketo see?
 

 

  Hide contents

Yes! Interested!

[Fotta]

5 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

if anyone is interested: I might upload some bits to shapeways. these bits should provide a bit of armour /weaponry for your "knights". 
The first few uploads will be testruns since getting the scale right is pretty hard 😃

 

Any wishes for amor bitz you'd liketo see?
 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I would love things like helmets (great if they fit the heads, okay if they don't), random armour pieces (breastplate, one greave etc, like the arch regent), or banner poles. 

[JackStreicher]

@Fotta @warhammernerd

the Breastplate and the Shoulder (top left) are finished and I ordered the first test files. (Theoretically they should fit on a Crypt Horror Torso with slight manual adjustments #scalpel) =}

though I might have to look for a different 3D printing service since Shapeways website has 10% useful infos the rest is advertisement for themselves. I can‘t even find out how to open a shop or how to permanently upload a file   (They changed quite a lot over the past two years)

Edited February 13, 2019 by JackStreicher

[WoollyMammoth]

This book is absolutely insane. 

Lets say you take the grand court that makes Horrors battleline, take two units of 6 and a unit of 3 (750) and then take 6 Archregents. 6 Archregents means you'll know all 6 spells from the lore. Throw in the mandatory Chalice to turn half the wounds you take each turn into healing. Make one of your Archregents +2 to cast to make sure it goes off, as well as the +D3 attacks spell.

Put all the Archregents around the Throne at the start and summon four units of 20 ghouls and 2 Vargulf to support the Horror units. Your army is now 3110 points to start the game, if you get the chalice then half your wounds are being restored and if your opponent doesn't fully destroy any Horror unit, you have two Vargulf just bringing back any dead models. 

Of course FEC often relies on its big monsters, so take Gristlegore and take 4 Abhorrents, 3 on TG and one on a Dragon. Throw in an Archregent and the chalice for 1880 (+2 CP) First turn summon 4 units of Flayers  (680) and turn two summon a Vargulf to back them up for a total of 2,720.

Or any mix in between. I love my TG but I also love my ghoul hordes. TG are amazing at killing elite units like Stormcast by the dozens. Actually they are great against most things .. except ethereal units. They a small number of powerful attacks which fall short very quickly with some good 4+ saves.

This is where ghouls come in, the volume of attacks will eat through 4+ quickly, and now with the ability to get up to 7 attacks each (8 if you want to get crazy and ally a Vampire Lord) they will tear through anything. The great thing about a ghoul horde is you can spread out across several units. I was already killing half an army in one turn easy when I only had 120 attacks, now were talking  210 attacks or more?? I don't usually bring a GK on foot but the one time I did and buffed the ghouls to 4 attacks each - the game was such a one sided blowout that it was ridiculous. Even if you don't buff the ghouls attacks, you can immediately attack a second time for 1CP, so basically that is double the attacks.  If you can get a full unit of ghouls across a front line - that entire line is just dead. You will be able to do crazy things like spread across two units of 30 reapers and just delete or nearly delete both of them in one go. Even 5++ Witch Aelf units will die very fast.

Ghouls and Witch Aelves are similar. Most of you will know the insanity that is Witch Aelves. Ghouls are going to be able to far exceed the number of attacks, albeit with less efficient attacks.  While witches can be burnt down and taken care of, ghouls are coming back via the Chalice, Courtiers and Ghoul Patrol, and they have the bonus of being 40 strong instead of 30. Both units are 6" move 6+ save and typically have 6++ save as well. Witches have much more efficient offense when paired with Mindrazor but that is unreliable. The 5++ (especially re-rolling) makes them very difficult to deal with. Witches have a greater alpha strike potential, if all the things go right for them a lot of armies are just dead on impact. FEC is not going to be so reliant on things going super well, and are going to have much greater ability to sustain without needing to win early on. Also FEC now have a way to counter Witch Elves by sticking an Abhorrent on a monster out in front with the ability to always attack first then double down and attack a second time .. even if the witches kill him they will likely have suffered a great loss getting there which will deflate a lot of their power and put you in a great position to counter strike.

My only problem with this book is not enough models! Every one of the new models is amazing! The terrain looks kind of like basic old terrain but that bone throne is amazing. The Archregent is beautifully detailed. But FEC desperately needs a GK clampack and a plastic Vargulf. Making a cool custom Vargulf is kind of the rite of passage for FEC players. I thought with how cool they made the Vargulf in Total War that we would see a new one when the book was updated. The Archregent was probably an attempt at a GK clampack but it was so damn awesome they had to make new rules for it, lol.

Anyway - I would get out there and enjoy it as much as possible because the nerf hammers are likely coming fast for this one. It has great answers for everything, has probably the most powerful summoning, probably the most devastating combat potential of any army and the greatest ability to shrug off and undo all the damage caused to it!!

Edited February 13, 2019 by WoollyMammoth

[XReN]

2 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Lets say you take the grand court that makes Horrors battleline, take two units of 6 and a unit of 3 (750) and then take 6 Archregents. 6 Archregents means you'll know all 6 spells from the lore. Throw in the mandatory Chalice to turn half the wounds you take each turn into healing. Make one of your Archregents +2 to cast to make sure it goes off, as well as the +D3 attacks spell.

Lets now remember that you can't take neither the trait, nor the artefact to buff your cast rolls since you have mandatory things with Court
Also chalice works with models, not wounds and does not return horrors
 

4 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Of course FEC often relies on its big monsters, so take Gristlegore and take 4 Abhorrents, 3 on TG and one on a Dragon. Throw in an Archregent and the chalice for 1880 (+2 CP) First turn summon 4 units of Flayers  (680) and turn two summon a Vargulf to back them up for a total of 2,720.

Where are your battlelines dude? You can't have Kings as BL for sure

 

6 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

probably the most devastating combat potential of any army and the greatest ability to shrug off and undo all the damage caused to it!

Nah, LoN can raise units, and there are armies that can bring even more damage more reliable

Also you can't ally a Vampire Lord 

[WoollyMammoth]

Oh right so no +2 to cast.
they don't say that if a GK is on the monster it cant be battleline, but they probably say only non-mount monsters in the book
Oh right I was thinking a VL was a deathlord but its a Soulblight. 
With the ability to bring back entire units, LoN has the best ability to undo damage - but that stuff is first in the nerf line currently. Both LoN and FEC are really good at this, its hard to say but I would say LoN wins at the moment.

Edited February 13, 2019 by WoollyMammoth

[Gecktron]

1 minute ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Oh right so no +2 to cast.
they don't say that if a GK is on the monster it cant be battleline, but they probably say only non-mount monsters in the book
Oh right I was thinking a VL was a deathlord but its a Soulblight. 

Yeah, the Battletome says explicit Royal Zombie Dragons and Royal Terrorgheists for Gristlegore. 

[rosa]

Who is the author of the new FEC Tome?

Phil Kelly?

[Mutter]

59 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

and they have the bonus of being 40 strong instead

But not if everybody brings them in via the Archregent.
For exaample, neither of the lists you suggested has room for a unit of 40 ghouls, and since the info on the new book droped, NONE of the lists suggested had.

There is some really powerful stuff in the book, but it's difficult to pile in the various tricks (unlike in DoK), so while I think the book will be strong, most strong armies coming out of it will be a bit of a one-trick-pony. And that makes it slightly vulnerable.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Mutter

[JackStreicher]

Okay. I manged to upload the files.
I'll add more over time. But be warned: The two armor bits have not been tested (mine will arrive in 9 days, then I can show images if I've got the size correct) ^^

 

For Crypt Horrors
Breastplates
Pauldrons
 

 

Upcoming Bits

Edited February 13, 2019 by JackStreicher

[WoollyMammoth]

Stumbling with rules without the book in my hands .. but there are still so many crazy options.

Take 4 TG for 1200 and you have 440 points more than I said, so take 2 Archregents and summon 2 extra units. Now you save CP by doing it for free with the throne. that leaves 160 points under 2000 but you don't need to have extra CP anymore, so add in a unit of Horrors. That is 2000 point even that summons two units of any kind for a max of 2400 points you'll have after summoning. 

Nobody would want to ally a VL anyway. I don't really see a point in taking any allies since you want to use all the internal FEC synergy, but I might take Neferata because she is just fun.

The chalice is uniquely interesting in the way that it turns your slain models into healing. With the ability to have hordes of ghouls that turns half your dead ghouls into healing your heroes/monsters or just bring back the dead ghouls. When you combine that with courtiers and the ability to have well over 2000 points worth of models, things can get crazy. I can't wait to try it out on the table.

A good mix list ..  maybe 2 GK on RTG, a RTG and an Archregent (1300) A unit of 40 ghouls and a unit of 30 ghouls, chalice. Would have to be Gristlegore to cover battleline, can summon 20 more ghouls and 2 units of flayers for a total of  2540 points with a good mix of ghouls and 3 monsters. 6 drops though, not sure how essential going first is going to be yet.



 

Edited February 13, 2019 by WoollyMammoth

[XReN]

2 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

adding D6 every turn

was removed
don't you feel like reading a book yourself or watching GMG review yet?

[WoollyMammoth]

I watched the GMG review. Like I said without the book in my hands its hard. I didn't catch every nuance. Ghoul Patrol is 180 points now, and its just a limited ambush? That is garbage. A lot of people take GP without even using the ambush.

Board edge ambush is really bad. People were so gung-ho about Legion of Night being so good but that didn't get very far. Tactically its incredibly easy to dictate how your opponent with ambush and control the game. Its also a very bad idea to throw a certain % of your army into 100% of theirs - if they are turtled up defensively then an ambush is likely very bad. People get excited for alpha strikes but the actual efficiency of them is usually low - unless you blow them out and win with your first attack you could end up in a bad spot.

This looks like a classic GW over-nerf, that's why I didn't notice the change. They should have lowered the points if they are cutting half its abilities. If you are going to put a big gamble on alpha striking a bunch of ghouls, you are also going to want the opportunity to buff them, but since they just appear in the movement phase you can't. Also you probably aren't going to fit 3 units in the board edges, so you are probably only striking with 1 or 2 units. So you are working with a limited, un-buffed ambush of 1-2 units. There are better options in the book to get a unit of 40 ghouls across the table fast, such as using Royal Mordants - first cast cogs (and other buffs), then move ghouls 8", then 8" again in the movement phase, then charge with +2 (or more depending on your court). 

Edited February 13, 2019 by WoollyMammoth

[Mutter]

37 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

I don't really see a point in taking any allies since you want to use all the internal FEC synergy,

Arkhan will still be a really strong ally to make sure we get all our juicy spells off ...

[RocketMan]

2 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:

This book is absolutely insane. 

Lets say you take the grand court that makes Horrors battleline, take two units of 6 and a unit of 3 (750) and then take 6 Archregents. 6 Archregents means you'll know all 6 spells from the lore. Throw in the mandatory Chalice to turn half the wounds you take each turn into healing. Make one of your Archregents +2 to cast to make sure it goes off, as well as the +D3 attacks spell.

Put all the Archregents around the Throne at the start and summon four units of 20 ghouls and 2 Vargulf to support the Horror units. Your army is now 3110 points to start the game, if you get the chalice then half your wounds are being restored and if your opponent doesn't fully destroy any Horror unit, you have two Vargulf just bringing back any dead models. 

Of course FEC often relies on its big monsters, so take Gristlegore and take 4 Abhorrents, 3 on TG and one on a Dragon. Throw in an Archregent and the chalice for 1880 (+2 CP) First turn summon 4 units of Flayers  (680) and turn two summon a Vargulf to back them up for a total of 2,720.

Or any mix in between. I love my TG but I also love my ghoul hordes. TG are amazing at killing elite units like Stormcast by the dozens. Actually they are great against most things .. except ethereal units. They a small number of powerful attacks which fall short very quickly with some good 4+ saves.

This is where ghouls come in, the volume of attacks will eat through 4+ quickly, and now with the ability to get up to 7 attacks each (8 if you want to get crazy and ally a Vampire Lord) they will tear through anything. The great thing about a ghoul horde is you can spread out across several units. I was already killing half an army in one turn easy when I only had 120 attacks, now were talking  210 attacks or more?? I don't usually bring a GK on foot but the one time I did and buffed the ghouls to 4 attacks each - the game was such a one sided blowout that it was ridiculous. Even if you don't buff the ghouls attacks, you can immediately attack a second time for 1CP, so basically that is double the attacks.  If you can get a full unit of ghouls across a front line - that entire line is just dead. You will be able to do crazy things like spread across two units of 30 reapers and just delete or nearly delete both of them in one go. Even 5++ Witch Aelf units will die very fast.

Ghouls and Witch Aelves are similar. Most of you will know the insanity that is Witch Aelves. Ghouls are going to be able to far exceed the number of attacks, albeit with less efficient attacks.  While witches can be burnt down and taken care of, ghouls are coming back via the Chalice, Courtiers and Ghoul Patrol, and they have the bonus of being 40 strong instead of 30. Both units are 6" move 6+ save and typically have 6++ save as well. Witches have much more efficient offense when paired with Mindrazor but that is unreliable. The 5++ (especially re-rolling) makes them very difficult to deal with. Witches have a greater alpha strike potential, if all the things go right for them a lot of armies are just dead on impact. FEC is not going to be so reliant on things going super well, and are going to have much greater ability to sustain without needing to win early on. Also FEC now have a way to counter Witch Elves by sticking an Abhorrent on a monster out in front with the ability to always attack first then double down and attack a second time .. even if the witches kill him they will likely have suffered a great loss getting there which will deflate a lot of their power and put you in a great position to counter strike.

My only problem with this book is not enough models! Every one of the new models is amazing! The terrain looks kind of like basic old terrain but that bone throne is amazing. The Archregent is beautifully detailed. But FEC desperately needs a GK clampack and a plastic Vargulf. Making a cool custom Vargulf is kind of the rite of passage for FEC players. I thought with how cool they made the Vargulf in Total War that we would see a new one when the book was updated. The Archregent was probably an attempt at a GK clampack but it was so damn awesome they had to make new rules for it, lol.

Anyway - I would get out there and enjoy it as much as possible because the nerf hammers are likely coming fast for this one. It has great answers for everything, has probably the most powerful summoning, probably the most devastating combat potential of any army and the greatest ability to shrug off and undo all the damage caused to it!!

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F21aqbc.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimgflip.com%2Fi%2F21aqbc&docid=7CZuUW8rbp2CwM&tbnid=oLWMPgBupOeJAM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjlwN_ywbngAhVGKuwKHQoRCg4QMwg5KAAwAA..i&w=620&h=349&client=safari&bih=1060&biw=1591&q=everything you said is wrong&ved=0ahUKEwjlwN_ywbngAhVGKuwKHQoRCg4QMwg5KAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8

[WoollyMammoth]

11 minutes ago, Mutter said:

Arkhan will still be a really strong ally to make sure we get all our juicy spells off ...

you can make a GK +2 so I don't see the point. GK won't lose the casting buff as he takes damage and can know the spells. Arkhan will learn the spells from others but that's a lot of points for a +2 you can already get, and there are no summonable units in FEC for him to heal, so there is a lot of waste.

@RocketMan What is the point of quoting the whole thing just for a joke? lol. I edited my post to take out the mistakes, so there is still somethings that are not wrong. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by WoollyMammoth

[Gecktron]

Im thinking about adding a Corpse Cart to my army for that sweet sweet +1 for casting roll. 

[Mutter]

6 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

you can make a GK +2

Yes, but Arkhan can then cast all spells with the buff.
*shrug*
It's a matter of preference. Arkhan is basically the same for old and new FEC, and he was frequently found in Monster Mash lists. I don't see a particular reason why that would change (to the contrary, we got an even more powerful spell now that we really want to get off), so make of that what you will.

[RocketMan]

11 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

you can make a GK +2 so I don't see the point. GK won't lose the casting buff as he takes damage and can know the spells. Arkhan will learn the spells from others but that's a lot of points for a +2 you can already get, and there are no summonable units in FEC for him to heal, so there is a lot of waste.

@RocketMan What is the point of quoting the whole thing just for a joke? lol. I edited my post to take out the mistakes, so there is still somethings that are not wrong. 

mate, just wait fot the book... chalice is not as u intended...honestly is nice, but i don't think it'll work well with big unit thanks to general aos rule of the wholly within

[Vlagorescu]

On another note: 

Does anyone have any good ideas for army themed dice? 

I can't seem to find any nice-looking dice for my FeC. Does anyone have any custom made or examples of nice ones? 

Cheers! 

[Vlagorescu]

11 minutes ago, Mutter said:

Yes, but Arkhan can then cast all spells with the buff.
*shrug*
It's a matter of preference. Arkhan is basically the same for old and new FEC, and he was frequently found in Monster Mash lists. I don't see a particular reason why that would change (to the contrary, we got an even more powerful spell now that we really want to get off), so make of that what you will.

I'd actually consider taking a corpse cart and a mortis engine for 260p instead. This will give all your casters +2 to  cast and can also dish out MW and heal with mortis. Curse of years is really really good tho and an psychological nightmare for your opponent.