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AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion


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1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

Been looking at this army for awhile and reading through it seems most go for Crypt Ghoul units of 10-20 for Battleline. Is it at all viable to go purely Flayer or Horror with their respective battalions + a GKoTG & GKoZD? Was thinking something along the lines of this:

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
Crypt Infernal Courtier (140)
- General
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist (400)
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon (440)
6 x Crypt Flayers (320)
6 x Crypt Flayers (320)
3 x Crypt Flayers (160)
Deadwatch (170)

Total: 1950 / 2000

Maybe drop a King in order to bring more Flayers and another Courtier or something? The SC boxes would give me Ghouls to summon in as well if I had a regular GK or two...could be good for objective camping? I expected this to be another type of Horde army but most of the lists I'm seeing do not go above 30-40 Crypt Ghouls total, I just really enjoy more MSU's of elite troops for armies.

A lot of people really like the Deadwatch list, but I lean more towards Ghoul Patrol lists. Not only do they have that classic horror, monsters from all sides closing in feel to it, but it is very strong to camp objectives.  My favorite list so far is GK on TG(Banshee Blade, Majestic Horror), Ghoul Courtier, Varghulf(FLayed Pennant), 2 GK, 30/20/20 Ghouls. Ghoul Patrol and a couple Endless spells. Usually Cogs and Soul Shackles.  The list can hit very hard and Flayed Pennant can allow the 2 summoned Horror blobs to charge in on the first turn they come on the board. Then swarm objectives with piles of regenerating ghouls.

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2 hours ago, mrbedlam said:

A lot of people really like the Deadwatch list, but I lean more towards Ghoul Patrol lists. Not only do they have that classic horror, monsters from all sides closing in feel to it, but it is very strong to camp objectives.  My favorite list so far is GK on TG(Banshee Blade, Majestic Horror), Ghoul Courtier, Varghulf(FLayed Pennant), 2 GK, 30/20/20 Ghouls. Ghoul Patrol and a couple Endless spells. Usually Cogs and Soul Shackles.  The list can hit very hard and Flayed Pennant can allow the 2 summoned Horror blobs to charge in on the first turn they come on the board. Then swarm objectives with piles of regenerating ghouls.

I do play Nighthaunt as well, but was looking for something a little different than the campy/defensive nature of how I play them and fast, regenerating units that put out MW's seem fun. Maybe I'm just underestimating all of the synergies to Ghouls and I didn't want another "horde" army, although ~40-60 models total for battleline isn't terrible, better than moving around 120 Eshin models. I like to only buy the models I need\plan to use and usually the SC boxes comes with extra, but buying 2 may be the best bet? I wouldn't see the value in it though unless I planned to use a TG and ZD together in lists, which is why mine had both.

Your list idea has really intrigued me though. Do Deadwatch lists tend to do decently in a more competitive environment or does the amount of bodies tend to prove detrimental in most cases? Assuming of course you don't table your opponent with all of the extra attacks before they get too many objective points.

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2 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Do Deadwatch lists tend to do decently in a more competitive environment 

Have not seen one in the charts of GTs, so you won’t win money with it. Problem with deadwatch is also, that to get the extra attacks during the hero phase, you had to charge, fight in your turn, fight during the opponents turn and then finally you get your extra pile in.  Might be good to free them up for the turn, might just up one unit to 9 models or go 3x6...

flayer spam can be very funny, especially, when fighting stupid SC and destroying their stupid heroes with a filthy amount of MW. Nothing for the objective game though

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@HonkTrue, I suppose I hadn't though of the fact it doesn't really allow any first turn shenanigans. I already knew I wouldn't be getting anything done for the objective game, this was more for casual\semi-competitive play and I love the regeneration aspect of it. May buy some extra ghouls regardless and see how I like them over purely flayers.

What the general consensus on trying to fit in a GKoTG and GKoZD in the same deadwatch list? Better to just have 1 GKoZD + More courtiers for the regeneration?

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Tried Ghoul patrol yesterday, if you manage to keep the ghouls alive, it’s very strong. From my only game, I understand that ghouls are not chaff, but what you have to preserve in order to win.

also CP for battleshock immunity is needed!

oh, doppelganger cloack seems very tactical, but tricky to use... I manage to block a Gorebull and 3 minotaurs with my King, making them waste their activation...

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Helas

I m new in AOS and i build a FEC Army, what for Units  i need for a 1000 P list ?  and what for Tactic is the best against Slaanesh ?

atm i have:

-1  GK

-1 GK on TG

-1 TG

-3 Horrors

-65 Ghouls

and with the another 3 Horrors/Flayers I do not know which unit I should build.

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A good build, with what you have now, would be 

King on TG

40 ghouls

10 ghouls 

Ghast courtier

you have 60 points for 1 Cp or an endless spell.

I’d make the ghast your leader and give him dark wizardry. Delusione, Royal tournament, so the King rerolls 1s to hit. Artifact of you choice, I’d take one of those from the realms that gives -1 to hit and give it to the TG.

If you have another 3 horrors/flayers, go for crusading army as your delusion, make the TG your leader and take the majestic horror trait, so that he summons both units of horrors.

I’d go for horrors, I really don’t like flayers nowadays, they always fail to do anything...

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Thx for your Answere

42 minutes ago, Glaurung said:

I’d go for horrors, I really don’t like flayers nowadays, they always fail to do anything... 

But is the Missile WEapons from the Flayers not god ? I mean you can make many Kills when i have 6 Flayers can i make 26 Kills (when i have 6 with all 6 Dice and -10 for Bravery) or do I misunderstand the ability?  and with deathwatch you have a "free" attack,  I want to build a deathwatch and ghoul patrol army  (not together)  ;D

or I'm planning an army with

Crypt Infernal Courtier (140)
- General
UNITS
3 x Crypt Flayers (160)
3 x Crypt Flayers (160)
3 x Crypt Flayers (160)
BEHEMOTHS
Terrorgheist (300)
Zombie Dragon (300)
Terrorgheist (300)
BATTALIONS
Deadwatch (170)
Royal Menagerie (140)
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So, some piece of advice I want to give you.

playing Fec is trying to stat alive. It’s a war of attrition: you need bodies, hero redundancy and support. 

- bodies 

Every unit, in my eye, has an optimal size.

Ghouls: 10 to fill battleline requirenents; 30/40 for standard unit. 20 only if you play Ghoul patrol.

horrors: 3 is bad, you should always have 6, for optimal use of space and pile in; or 9, for having a very strong unit that is very difficult to bring down. Note that 9 means 480 points that can be bogged down or debuffed.

flayers: same as horrors, but I would play six of them, not nine.

for batallions:

- never mix them, it’s not cost efficient;

- I really think Fec need to play with them, se really benefit from the CP, relict and one drop.

Royal menagerie is not very efficient, as you have almost only monsters that can be surrounded and killed. they hit on 4s. The mounted Kings are always better.

deadwatch: never tried difficult to utilize, you need 3 units of 6 flayers (or 2x6 and 1x3); It needs to be played very aggressively, playstyle I don’t think is suited for FEC.

- Hero redundancy

always have at least two courtiers for one type of unit. If you have many horrors, try to have a Haunter and a Varghulf, better if summoned by the King ok zombie dragon. Because shooting is bad and losing what brings back your models is worse.

- Support

remenber, your heroes are empowering your army. Never leave them alone, exposed or out of range of your troops.

The mounted kings are great, but die easily: I suggest relics that mitigate this issue.

 

hope it’s useful. Sorry for grammatica errors, I’m writing with my phone and The autocorrector is making me crazy.

ps: Flayers projectile is awful, it’s good against 3 armies and needs some sort of debuffs to deal any damage.

TG is good, but you would need a list centered on lowering bravery to use flayers’ one too. And I think it would not be a good list.

Edited by Glaurung
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6 hours ago, Glaurung said:

oh, doppelganger cloack seems very tactical, but tricky to use... I manage to block a Gorebull and 3 minotaurs with my King, making them waste their activation...

?.. how about that?

they still can be activated after your king attacked!?

am i missing something?

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39 minutes ago, Glaurung said:

ok zombie dragon. Because shooting is bad and losing what brings back your models is worse.

....

TG is good, but you would need a list centered on lowering bravery to use flayers’ one too. And I think it would not be a good list.

Sorry, but do you say: Zmbie Dragons are better then Terrorgheists ?

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1 hour ago, Diablo said:

Sorry, but do you say: Zmbie Dragons are better then Terrorgheists ?

Both of the monsters are good, it depends what you want out of them. Unless you're against another bravery 10 army the 6+d6 from the Terrorgheist shooting usually does a decent number of mortals, and it's maw attack comes up often enough that it's respectable in combat (the dragon is obviously more consistent there). 

Which you pick I think mostly depends on what you want out of its summoning and spells. Personally I really like the Terrorgheist's spell and would rather summon in units of crypt flayers than more courtiers, but I can imagine someone else paying for big units and wanting to summon more courtiers. 

The dragon is also 40 points more expensive, for some reason, and that's a real consideration with how tight on points FEC can be given you're wanting extra command points.

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46 minutes ago, flowerpot_chimp said:

Both of the monsters are good, it depends what you want out of them. Unless you're against another bravery 10 army the 6+d6 from the Terrorgheist shooting usually does a decent number of mortals, and it's maw attack comes up often enough that it's respectable in combat (the dragon is obviously more consistent there). 

Which you pick I think mostly depends on what you want out of its summoning and spells. Personally I really like the Terrorgheist's spell and would rather summon in units of crypt flayers than more courtiers, but I can imagine someone else paying for big units and wanting to summon more courtiers. 

The dragon is also 40 points more expensive, for some reason, and that's a real consideration with how tight on points FEC can be given you're wanting extra command points. 

Okay thx, then i make both versions of the GK with dragon.

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7 hours ago, Fluttershy said:

?.. how about that?

they still can be activated after your king attacked!?

am i missing something?

That's why you wait for your king to do go last. Your opponent can't "skip" an activation. So if their unit is their last and you still have swung, all they can do pile in and end their activation. Hopefully that made sense.

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11 hours ago, Diablo said:

But is the Missile WEapons from the Flayers not god ?

It is (d6+1)-bravery, so useless against anything with bravery 7+ (Undead, demons, seraphon, stormcast, witch aelves)

Against armies with bravery 5, each flayer does 1MW on a 5, 2 on a roll of 6... (KO, Skaven,...) so highly depending on opponent and unit. The MW on a 6 is pretty good, but for what they do, the are totally overpriced (also in RL).

 

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4 hours ago, Honk said:

but for what they do, the are totally overpriced 

Would maybe a more Horror focused list like Abattoir would prove better on average than mass Flayers in a Deadwatch? At least you get some MW output from the Battalion, no? Seems a bit more balanced (probably RL cheaper too) than pure Flayers in a 3x6. But again, I'm here to learn, so may be way off the mark with that assumption.

Then again, I think I'm becoming more convinced Ghoul Patrol is the about the only way to go regardless for competitive play. Maybe 3x20 ghouls, 1x9 flayers to get the best of both worlds. Take the CT to summon in a second ghast courtier and an infernal to run with the flayers?

Edited by Gwendar
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There was a single digit placement at ... think it was a GT, with a pretty unremarkable monster mash list. 1 gkozd, 2 gkotg, 3x10 ghouls maybe ghoulpatrol and something, it’s in here somewhere 

a list I got wiped with more times  than I like to remember, his answer to my questions was (very nicely phrased)

„git good, boi“ kratos style

 

magnetize the arms, try out what suits your playstyle best and have fun... the best list will not help you, when your using it wrong

 

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1 hour ago, Honk said:

There was a single digit placement at ... think it was a GT, with a pretty unremarkable monster mash list. 1 gkozd, 2 gkotg, 3x10 ghouls maybe ghoulpatrol and something, it’s in here somewhere 

a list I got wiped with more times  than I like to remember, his answer to my questions was (very nicely phrased)

„git good, boi“ kratos style

 

magnetize the arms, try out what suits your playstyle best and have fun... the best list will not help you, when your using it wrong

 

Thats an incredibly disingenuous summary of what he said. He more than went out of his way to explain the list, its strengths, and its weaknesses. He wrote the list with a specific tournament and its rules pack in mind. He warned people off the list as it is very vulnerable in standard scenarios. There is no need to get butt hurt over the fact that he didnt spell out how to play his list in an environment that he didnt believe is viable.

Edited by Pangu
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13 minutes ago, Glaurung said:

it won’t work normally.

?!? If it works at a tournament ?!?

of course, if your best buddy brings his counter-list around your done for, but else...

storm the objectives, and smoke and mirrors with the mounted kings to keep your opponent busy/tied up till he looses on points. Nagash nearly lost a turn 3 wipe against Iron Jawz that way (battle for the pass).

on the other handside, horror lists are really good at small games, had a lot of fun with them

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5 minutes ago, Pangu said:

Thats an incredibly disingenuous summary of what he said. 

No hurt from my side and no offense intended...

I left the threat, thinking he won through sun-tzu-ing, maybe I left too early.   ;-D

or we‘re talking about two different guys 

and what does disingenuous mean?! Non-native here...

Edited by Honk
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