AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[scrollbuilderdude]

5 hours ago, Mikosan said:

And Mr. Souza was the only one I am aware of that had dope list art lol

Good luck with ETC Bill!

Wow, I think I have a new formatting option to implement.

Congrats on doing so well Bill!

[Honk]

13 hours ago, Bill_S said:

To be blatantly honest with you; this list does not work in many formats.

So, again congratulations to your mighty performance and good to hear that it all boiled down to your tactical acumen and razor sharp brilliance at AoS...

And priority and HoD are things, that sometimes makes AoS not that balanced or really prevent a comeback.

 

I can happily fumble again and blame the subpar rules XD

Will still borrow the list for a ride through the club.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Honk

[Mephisto]

7 hours ago, Honk said:

And priority and HoD are things, that sometimes makes AoS not that balanced or really prevent a comeback.

I got into AOS before the LoN tome came out. Briefly I considered FEC (dat lore, nuff sed) but eventually settled on "mixed Death" because necromancers+skeletons. I felt like GW was personally rewarding me for 'choosing correctly' when we got a proper battletome. Still, I feel beholden to FEC. They're like a little brother to me really. I always want them to do go and succeed. I was a bit aghast to see FEC take sixth at NOVA but also really proud. So seriously, major props, @Bill_S.

Now there is some benevolence in my desire for FEC to be good. As an accomplished necromancer and lich, I quickly murder that benelovence and raise it as a skeleton to do my bidding and am left with two other, more selfish reasons:

1. I want the Death GA to be the best because muwahahahahahaha. 
2. If more Death armies are better, then the Nagash saturation will subside some. The Nagash haters can go back to not seeing him as often and I can go back to enjoying a less crowded mirror match meta because Grand Host players don't like losing to coinflip, HODs either.

Like, I will actually defend Hand of Dust. It's an unreliable trump card of a sort. You have to resolve a spell portal and then resolve the HoD. Both of these tilt toward Nagash's casting bonus but there are some armies out there that guarantee an unbind X times per game. Next, you flip the coin (or hide the dice). Now that you can only cast one spell through that portal, the Nagash player MUST make a tactical decision. Debuff a priority unit, or go for the 50/50? Imagine now, that you play against another Nagash. Your bonuses are meaningless because you equally unbind and cast so it's like you're straight rolling (your investment in being the best caster completely absorbed in the mirror) and it really is just... who gets the better hand. You're annoyed as an FEC player, imagine how annoyed I am.  Like, don't you want me to HoD Morathi on average after 2 turns to keep DOK players honest? I know you do. 

As for priority? Well, that's just bad beats. GW doubled-down on the double turn with 2.0. Their strives to mitigate it with some of the objectives that score better if you go second and Endless Spells was NOT enough in my mind to continue to keep it around. I like the randomness of HoD and dice in general. Actually completely having games turned on their head because of lucky priority rolls doesn't feel good for either player, imo. Like... I don't feel good when I win because I got the double because I expect more of myself and I certainly don't feel good losing because the double. It's just a straight feelbad mechanic or NPE. 

I have to wonder if Bill could've weathered either the priority roles or the lucky multiples of HoD and just not both. I suspect he could've weathered the HoDs if it weren't for three straight priority wins for Nagash. Man, that's real close though. And with such a flavorful list... Once again, great showing, FEC. Every Death player is proud of you. At least they should be. 

PS: really DO  NOT want to hijack this discussion with HoD talk or debate Double Turns. I was just being silly and humorous. 

[JCar09]

In two weeks i have an special tournament format, 2vs2 with random couple 750points each. I think is really powerfull in 750. 

Ghoul kingTerrorgueist  with etheral amulet and double invocation

Ghoul king

10 ghouls

10 ghouls

(10 ghouls from ghoul king)

( 6 horrors/flyers from GKT) 

I have other armies, but i think in 750 points FEC IS the BEST!! ?

[Honk]

Singing : you’re a mean one Mr.Grintch...

at 750 those 320 point outrider squad with 100 points backliners surely will mess up some people. And I love a good horror charge... gravestones to the face!!!

[JCar09]

Haha!! This type of invocation playing 750 points will be a madness. But we deserve win a bit in tournaments! I post here the results next week!

[Honk]

And with all the summoning, you can pressure those pesky backline shooters like kurnoth or raptors...

and of course some sneaky objective grabbing 

[nuttyknatty]

A recent trip to Aqshy!

[Rekmeister]

Traded my Seraphon away today. Am now a resplendent member of the King's Cohort.

We played a 1K game against our old armies. I ran an Abbatoir and a Varghulf, with Dark Wizardry on the Crypt Haunter. Went pretty heckin' well.

Crypt Horrors as battleline is sweet, and getting to play with two drops is great. I like the idea of keeping both the battalion itself and the Haunter as my general in 2K. I like having a small general that can benefit from cover.

Below is the army list I can run with the models I have. Having the Haunter as my general also means that I can be a bit more aggressive with my dragons or terrorgheists without risking my general. I know Ghoul Patrol is the go to, but I like being on the board at the start of the game so I can bubblewrap my good units and start generating value off of the Varghulfs early. Only unit that will reliably wipe 30 Ghouls with Unholy Vitality is 20 Blood Sisters with buffs on them; but that leaves me open to crack back with Horrors. Not sure how many Horrors to run; I've come to the conclusion that I either take a Terrorgheist or I take more Horrors. Pretty sure I'll be popping both command points turn one most games so I can get the second Varghulf to the front line. I feel like I've made the most of my two artefacts. If the Terrorgheist has to shoot whatever it fights, the Grim Garland basically just adds two to the roll of his REEEE attack. Similarly, the nature of the AGKoZB's spell means I want him near the front where the fight is thickest, so Argent Armour is a no brainer as -1 to hit is huge; best way to defend against DoK is to make their attacks worse. Cogs pull double duty here as if I can manipulate it with an AGKoZB and cast Unholy Vitality on him with the AGKoTG the dragon rider will be -1 for enemies to hit, 5+/6+ FNP, re-roll saves. Pretty incredible turn one tarpit, not to mention he can cast spells of his own.

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts / Delusion: Crusading Army / Mortal Realm: Chamon / 2 Command points

Crpyt Haunter Courtier - 140

 - General - Dark Wizardry 

Abhorrent Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon - 440

 - Argent Armour

Abhorrent Ghoul King on Terrorgheist - 400

- Grim Garland

Varghulf Courtier - 160

30 Crypt Ghouls - 300

3 Crypt Horrors - 160

3 Crypt Horrors - 160

Abbatoir

Chronomatic Cogs

1950

I'll play a few games and let you all know how it goes!

Edited September 10, 2018 by Rekmeister

[Honk]

8 minutes ago, Rekmeister said:

Traded my Seraphon away today. 

I salute you to your daring and brave decision. Welcome in the ranks of the Knights of the Realms.

Sadly I cannot salute the mathematics of your list, although the general idea is sound. I guess you bring 6/3 horrors plus abattoir. I personally don’t like the min horror squat, 12 wounds with 5+ save is a wet tissue, but try it out and compare, I wish you all the best

[Rekmeister]

@Honk Yeah it's not ideal but I want to work out what to focus on. Another version of the list has no Terrorgheist but a blob of 12 Horrors. I think the low numbers work at 1k just fine, but at 2K I know I need more numbers if I want to tank hits from the big boy armies. 12 Horrors is 44 wounds.

[Honk]

7 hours ago, Rekmeister said:

Yeah it's not ideal but I want to work out what to focus on.

Smart idea... and as I said, I really like the list.

played horrors only at 750/1k. Pretty successful I dare say but usually we (FEC) are, at low points. Especially with the new summoning.

7 hours ago, Rekmeister said:

Another version of the list has no Terrorgheist

Totally conflicted about that... the spell, the summoning, the distraction the GkoTg brings is really good. Enemies will focus fire, while your ghouls can claim objectives. But 12.... a Dirty Dozen giving gravestone b-slaps, beautiful.

just make sure to protect your general, I was lectured and then read somewhere, that once he is dead, in matched play, no more command points 4U...

[Rekmeister]

3 hours ago, Honk said:

Totally conflicted about that... the spell, the summoning, the distraction the GkoTg brings is really good. Enemies will focus fire, while your ghouls can claim objectives. But 12.... a Dirty Dozen giving gravestone b-slaps, beautiful.

Yeah it's a tough choice. On the one hand, I know that players, even good ones, tend to focus fire on behemoths; but on the other hand 12 Horrors is an amount I am confident will not be wiped in one turn. Any casualties sustained can be brought back by the Varghulf/Haunter, and casting Black Hunger on them will be deece. Re-rolling hits when near a King is noice, and if the AGKoZB pulls his spell off they can re-roll wounds too. That's too much synergy for Death. I guess I'll see how it goes. I just know I don't want to paint more than 40 Ghouls.

3 hours ago, Honk said:

 just make sure to protect your general, I was lectured and then read somewhere, that once he is dead, in matched play, no more command points 4U...

Yeah I've been wanting to play an army like this for a long time where the general is small and does lots of jobs. The Haunter fulfils all those parameters, especially in the Abbatoir where he gets a small buff vs monsters. Black hunger is the spell he gets from Dark Wizardry, and it only has a casting value of 5; so even though his magical powers aren't part of his warscroll they're still pretty reliable.  I think he'll spend most games hiding in terrain, buffing and regenerating the troops, and then come out in turn 3/4 to whack some people with his club - ahem - his blessed blade.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Rekmeister

[CanHammer-darren]

Key for me is will 12 horrors get wiped out in TWO turns for the dreaded double. 

[Honk]

What won’t get wiped on a dreaded double?! I can kill you everything on a doubleturn

if you got 15 brutes laying into them it’s over... and they even cost 100 points less than your horrors.

I really like them as a double pack, 6 horrors for 320. not too concentrated, not too whimpy and not too crazy during pile in.

but in the end it’s your playstyle and your local meta deciding what goes and what blows

[Rekmeister]

Yeah I can't plan on getting a double turn, or getting whooped by one. With an FNP save we have at least a chance of surviving, and if they don't wipe us out we can reliably crack back thanks to courtiers regenerating corpses. Argent Armour/Gryph Feather Charm is also great at shrugging off double turns, worth putting on a king for sure in this list; as if he tanks the double turn I can hit back with everything re-rolling wounds (and re-roll hits for the horrors). Only reason I'm not calling it Gryph Feather Charm is that I might give the Haunter a Rune Blade for sweet -3 damage 3 attack, that's only if I decide I don't care for the Grim Garland.

Obviously unbinding is always a risk but this isn't DoK, we can't just auto buff units lol

[Fluttershy]

16 hours ago, Rekmeister said:

I know Ghoul Patrol is the go to, but I like being on the board at the start of the game so I can bubblewrap my good units and start generating value off of the Varghulfs early.

you're allowed to set up the whole patrol at the start of the game

[James S]

11 hours ago, Honk said:

just make sure to protect your general, I was lectured and then read somewhere, that once he is dead, in matched play, no more command points 4U...

Can you point me in the direction of this rule? Many thanks.

[Fluttershy]

17 minutes ago, James S said:

Can you point me in the direction of this rule? Many thanks.

doesn't exist

[Moogypies]

Heyo, 

I have a question regarding the Ghoul Patrol, I'll be taking part in a good few 1000 point games soon,  with battleplans going from page 56-61.

One of my planned lists was to go mass ghouls in the form of -
Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Delusion: Crusading Army
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Abhorrant Ghoul King (140)
- General
- Trait: Magestic Horror 
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Crypt Ghast Courtier (80)
- Artefact: The Flayed Pennant 
30 x Crypt Ghouls (300)
20 x Crypt Ghouls (200)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
Ghoul Patrol (180)

Total: 1000 / 2000

My only concern is Battleplan 1, which destroys all units in reserve, obviously Ghoul Patrol must start in reserve.

Is it within the rules to decide to deploy the ghouls and simply throw the battalion away for the game? 

And having not played with it much, must the ghoul patrol all come in from the same side, or can one lot of ghouls deploy on another edge? I can't see the wording as I'm awaiting my tome in the mail  

 

Edited September 11, 2018 by Moogypies
Added another question.

[Fluttershy]

13 minutes ago, Moogypies said:

My only concern is Battleplan 1, which destroys all units in reserve, obviously Ghoul Patrol must start in reserve.

you're not forced to put them in reserve. you may set up any ghoul patrol units at the start of the game.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_flesh-eater_courts_errata_en-1.pdf

Page 96 – Ghoul Patrol, On Patrol. Change to: ‘Instead of setting up any unit from this battalion on the battlefield, you can place it to one side and say that it is on patrol as a reserve unit. If you do so, at the end of your first movement phase, you must set up that unit wholly within 6" of the edge of the battlefield and more than 9" from any enemy units.’

 

but your opponent will snipe your crypt ghast and you have no one left to respawn your beloved ghouls..

Edited September 11, 2018 by Fluttershy

[Moogypies]

Ah yes thank you for the clarification on that, it makes it far more diverse then I thought  

I was hoping the auto d6 population a turn, and the king summoning in 20 more ghouls would be enough to somewhat stall a little bit and block off objectives, but yes its likely the courtier will be taken out very quickly, although I could potentially give him a -1 to be hit relic along with Look out sir to make him a bit more survivable, but then I do lose the +3 inches to a 30 man ghoul squad charge if I drop the banner on him. 

Considering this is 1k, my other planned option would be along the lines of -  
2x GKoTG
2x 10 Ghouls 

But I didn't think this would win me many friends bringing 2 big boys and summoning 9 Horrors/Flayers extra to such small points.

In a competitive minded environment which list would be better the previous ghoul one, or the TG?
 

[Fluttershy]

summoning is very strog at 1000pts

i like playing

2 drops, D6 ghouls per unit since first hero phase, 2 varghulfs, 2nd command point, 2nd artefact - remember to use courtiers first to respawn slain models, after use ghoul patrols D6 reinforcements - i luv it .. some kind of OP

 

[James S]

59 minutes ago, Fluttershy said:

remember to use courtiers first to respawn slain models, after use ghoul patrols D6 reinforcements - i luv it .. some kind of OP

 

I've been reading this and it still confuses me. We need to revive slain first before rolling the additional ghouls from the battalion? Just clarifying. Still not grasping it completely.

[Fluttershy]

5 hours ago, James S said:

I've been reading this and it still confuses me. We need to revive slain first before rolling the additional ghouls from the battalion? Just clarifying. Still not grasping it completely.

to be on the safe side, respawn slain models first, then use the ghoul patrol ability.

all courtier abilities does only apply to slain models.

the ghoul patrol ability "Drawn to Battle" add D6 models to each ghoul unit. it's FAQ'ed you're able to add ghouls over unit starting size.

 

i'm respawning slain models first, so i'm able to refer to the ghoul patrol FAQ when it comes to argue againt "meh, you're not allowed to add models to the unit if it exceeds the starting size of that unit".. it's the "safe" way of skyrocketing your ghoul units

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Fluttershy