AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[Warbossironteef]

Anyone have any general advice for when you face Tzeentch armies? I'm newer to FEC and running Blisterskin. Soon going to be battling up against some Tzeentch. 

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

Anyone have any general advice for when you face Tzeentch armies?

Your magic will be severely limited... so don’t count your buffing magic

then a lot depends on your opponents list. flamers with their rend and d3 damage will seriously hurt, while horrors split into infinity. 
both have a bad armor, so even our horrors can deliver a nasty punch.

But the amount of nasty Trickery from heroes is really tough to deal with.

patrol or mordants battalion could get your units fast across the battlefield, then target something juicy.

maybe even the GkoZd could make a comeback, the Tg-scream is neutered and rerolling wounds might be cool

[ireland012]

Agreed on this comment above.  Even our spells with CV of 5-6 will have difficulty.  However, it might be worth running your AAR with both Dermal Robe and Dark Wizardy for +2 to cast/unbind.  You will at least get off Ferocious hunger spell which can be game breaker in the right use.... It could effectively double the output of GKoTG when fishing for their 6 MW on 6's to hit and doubles the Horrors output if you roll a 5/6 on the D3 roll.

I also agree that your horrors might be the lynchpin against tzeentch.   Since they have no rend they are only good against 5/6+ saves.  Which is the majority of tzeentch army!  Buff them and move them twice with Royal Mordants, charge and delete the flamers turn 1.  That is kind of necessary to survive.  If those flamers are allowed to shoot for a turn, I don't think you will win that battle.  They will eliminate whoever they shoot...

What if you ran a hollowmourne faction instead of blisterskin?  You can still employ broad use of flayers.  They will also get to reroll 1's to wound fon the charge in Hollowmourne.  Throw in a royal mordants battalion, shoot double battalion if you want.  Ghouls will simply fall so might as well employ all horrors / flayers / TG or ZD.

[Predien]

33 minutes ago, ireland012 said:

Agreed on this comment above.  Even our spells with CV of 5-6 will have difficulty.  However, it might be worth running your AAR with both Dermal Robe and Dark Wizardy for +2 to cast/unbind.  You will at least get off Ferocious hunger spell which can be game breaker in the right use.... It could effectively double the output of GKoTG when fishing for their 6 MW on 6's to hit and doubles the Horrors output if you roll a 5/6 on the D3 roll.

I also agree that your horrors might be the lynchpin against tzeentch.   Since they have no rend they are only good against 5/6+ saves.  Which is the majority of tzeentch army!  Buff them and move them twice with Royal Mordants, charge and delete the flamers turn 1.  That is kind of necessary to survive.  If those flamers are allowed to shoot for a turn, I don't think you will win that battle.  They will eliminate whoever they shoot...

What if you ran a hollowmourne faction instead of blisterskin?  You can still employ broad use of flayers.  They will also get to reroll 1's to wound fon the charge in Hollowmourne.  Throw in a royal mordants battalion, shoot double battalion if you want.  Ghouls will simply fall so might as well employ all horrors / flayers / TG or ZD.

Keep in mind that a lot of FEC spells have a HUGE casting range so you might be able to deploy your AAR out of unbinding range. This way at least turn 1, maybe turn 2, you won't have to worry about something getting unbound. You might have to go for an alpha-strike tactic to bring down their leaders. I feel like the smashbat lists can handle Tzeentch if you're able to deploy right and get your first round of buffs off.

[Honk]

25 minutes ago, Predien said:

go for an alpha-strike tactic

With the mordant you could try to go for transformation on KNIGHTS (h/f) to alpha them into something, then send in the smashbat turn 2...

and remember not to overextend and be in charge of the activations. Charging in one buffed unit a time, frenzy... not to get caught in a strong counterattack that cripples the second unit

[Dejnar]

On 3/5/2021 at 3:28 PM, Warbossironteef said:

Anyone have any general advice for when you face Tzeentch armies? I'm newer to FEC and running Blisterskin. Soon going to be battling up against some Tzeentch. 

Corpse cart give an additional +1 to cast. So it is possible to get +3 on the AAR. 

[DaCapo]

Hi guys I have a tournament coming this week end and I wanna play fec but not sure about my list what do you think of it : 

 

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Blisterskin

Leaders
Abhorrant Archregent (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Hellish Orator
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)
- Lore of Madness: Deranged Transformation
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)
- Artefact: Eye of Hysh
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Crypt Infernal Courtier (120)

Battleline
6 x Crypt Flayers (340)
3 x Crypt Flayers (170)
3 x Crypt Flayers (170)

Battalions
Deadwatch (110)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 89
 

Was wondering if i should kick the regent for 3 more flayers ?🤔

[Sutek]

Keep the regent.  He's worth it for his summoning and his spell.  Also you can get another six flayers from the summoning of the two GKOTGs,

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

24 minutes ago, Sutek said:

Keep the regent.  He's worth it for his summoning and his spell.  Also you can get another six flayers from the summoning of the two GKOTGs,

Archie definitely worth it in tournament.  Spot on re: the flexibility of his summoning as in some matches a Varghulf to muster one of those Crypt Flayer blocks (Courtier can’t be everywhere) while still doing some damage will be key.  In others dropping a big block of Crypt Ghouls on an objective can swing a match.  But I guess that’s the question.  Do you have the summoning options to fully take advantage of Archie?

[Evil Bob]

2 hours ago, DaCapo said:

Hi guys I have a tournament coming this week end and I wanna play fec but not sure about my list what do you think of it : 

snip

Was wondering if i should kick the regent for 3 more flayers ?🤔

I’m with Sutek, keep the Archregent.  Your force is already think on objective holders and twenty free ghouls can be a big deal.  Alternatively summoning a Varghulf might keep keep your big blob of Flayers in the fight.  Most importantly that AAR (with Dermal Robe) is your foothold in the magic phase.  While there are other armies with far stronger magical options offensively or defensively it is better to have the option.  Not to mention 1d3 extra maw attacks on a GKoTG is sick.

The desire to run Deadwatch with 6/6/6 or 9/6/3 Flayers is understandable.  I have the same option, save it for a fluffier narrative battle with a friend.  In a competitive battle I would have probably tried working Royal Mordants instead but what you’re doing is certainly more true to Blisterskin and closer to min/maxing on battleline/heroes which is beautiful.

DaCapo have you worked out and operational plan for Command Points?  I try to do that for FEC armies to avoid the trap that is summons burning.

 

Edit: Kudos to Beer and Pretezel’s Gamer for saying the alt summoning first

Edited March 9, 2021 by Evil Bob

[DaCapo]

31 minutes ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

Archie definitely worth it in tournament.  Spot on re: the flexibility of his summoning as in some matches a Varghulf to muster one of those Crypt Flayer blocks (Courtier can’t be everywhere) while still doing some damage will be key.  In others dropping a big block of Crypt Ghouls on an objective can swing a match.  But I guess that’s the question.  Do you have the summoning options to fully take advantage of Archie?

Okay yes i have all the summoning options (you re speaking in terms of models right?)

7 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

I’m with Sutek, keep the Archregent.  Your force is already think on objective holders and twenty free ghouls can be a big deal.  Alternatively summoning a Varghulf might keep keep your big blob of Flayers in the fight.  Most importantly that AAR (with Dermal Robe) is your foothold in the magic phase.  While there are other armies with far stronger magical options offensively or defensively it is better to have the option.  Not to mention 1d3 extra maw attacks on a GKoTG is sick.

The desire to run Deadwatch with 6/6/6 or 9/6/3 Flayers is understandable.  I have the same option, save it for a fluffier narrative battle with a friend.  In a competitive battle I would have probably tried working Royal Mordants instead but what you’re doing is certainly more true to Blisterskin and closer to min/maxing on battleline/heroes which is beautiful.

DaCapo have you worked out and operational plan for Command Points?  I try to do that for FEC armies to avoid the trap that is summons burning.

 

Edit: Kudos to Beer and Pretezel’s Gamer for saying the alt summoning first

The thing is I wanted to play 2 terrors and I love having a full flap flap army but you think that royal mordants is better and why I never really tried it out ^^'?

What do you mean by operational plan for command points ? 

[ireland012]

You could still do mainly Flayers and 1 GKoTG with a royal mordant list!  
 

Take out one GKoTG and add the battalion, x3 horrors and x10 ghouls. Replace courtier with Varghulf.   Leaves you with 30 points extra - maybe enough for an additional CP?   I know it kinda of moves your list all around and not a true blisterskin...

[Honk]

your list seems kinda everything with a bit extra... deadwatch AND two GkoTg doesn’t add up well

and from own sad and terrible experiences, 3 unsupported flayers are garbage. with a battalion you’ll get a second mount trait of course, but I‘m not sure if you’re not fighting with a better set up, if you’ll ditch the second king and Flesh out the rest with the free points.

another infernal and 3 flayers are only 290 points, 

 if you’re hellbend on a double gheists... throw out the battalion for an extra infernal, which I think is the weaker option 

[Evil Bob]

1 hour ago, DaCapo said:

Okay yes i have all the summoning options (you re speaking in terms of models right?)

The thing is I wanted to play 2 terrors and I love having a full flap flap army but you think that royal mordants is better and why I never really tried it out ^^'?

What do you mean by operational plan for command points ? 

With two Terrorgheist heroes there’s plenty of gas in that tank.  Against enemies relying on quality of troops you’ll be fine.  Against hordes you’ll need need to plan more concentrated attacks and avoiding protracted fights.  Nothing wrong with that.  Royal Mordants would require major rework and frankly keeping things simple isn’t a bad thing.  Especially with games speeds at tournaments, that’s a big deal.

With regards to a plan for Command Points most armies only really need to save for inspirational presence and compare it against whatever their most favored alternative command ability is at hand.  Juggling inspirational presence and frenzy is bad enough.  Not going to lie I have used summons with GKoTG when those CPs would have been better spent feed frenzy.  The basic idea is to check one’s goals against their enthusiasm.

An example
CP Operational Plan

• Summons (turn one focus on options 1 & 2)

1. Free Vargulf (if keeping Flayers is important)
2. Free 20x Ghouls (if objective holding is important at start or unlikely late game flanking)
3. Flayers (if vitally important and only if Feeding Frenzy can’t better support)

• Combat

1. Feeding Frenzy (almost always, save a CP if VPs are likely to shift)

• Utility

1. Inspiring Presence (if VP are threatened)
2. Others (avoided unless a specific charge or movement really screams of importance)

 

 

[Evil Bob]

22 minutes ago, Honk said:

from own sad and terrible experiences, 3 unsupported flayers are garbage.

I think those are his objective sitters or snaggers.  Three models, twelve wounds with a 5+ save are not ideal at those points.  But I’ve seen worse.

[DaCapo]

1 hour ago, ireland012 said:

You could still do mainly Flayers and 1 GKoTG with a royal mordant list!  
 

Take out one GKoTG and add the battalion, x3 horrors and x10 ghouls. Replace courtier with Varghulf.   Leaves you with 30 points extra - maybe enough for an additional CP?   I know it kinda of moves your list all around and not a true blisterskin...

Said like that i dont find it very sexy to kick my terror for 10 ghouls and 3 crypt horrors 🤣🤣

The real issue is that I never played royal mordants and the tournament is saturday 😅 so I can't change all my list for this event but why not try something at another one so I m kinda curious of the full royal mordant list 

1 hour ago, Honk said:

your list seems kinda everything with a bit extra... deadwatch AND two GkoTg doesn’t add up well

and from own sad and terrible experiences, 3 unsupported flayers are garbage. with a battalion you’ll get a second mount trait of course, but I‘m not sure if you’re not fighting with a better set up, if you’ll ditch the second king and Flesh out the rest with the free points.

another infernal and 3 flayers are only 290 points, 

 if you’re hellbend on a double gheists... throw out the battalion for an extra infernal, which I think is the weaker option 

Kicking the battalion means kicking the artifact + the cp + the mount trait 😢

I can play kick the terror for + 3 flayers in the unit of 3 flayers🤔

 

48 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

With two Terrorgheist heroes there’s plenty of gas in that tank.  Against enemies relying on quality of troops you’ll be fine.  Against hordes you’ll need need to plan more concentrated attacks and avoiding protracted fights.  Nothing wrong with that.  Royal Mordants would require major rework and frankly keeping things simple isn’t a bad thing.  Especially with games speeds at tournaments, that’s a big deal.

With regards to a plan for Command Points most armies only really need to save for inspirational presence and compare it against whatever their most favored alternative command ability is at hand.  Juggling inspirational presence and frenzy is bad enough.  Not going to lie I have used summons with GKoTG when those CPs would have been better spent feed frenzy.  The basic idea is to check one’s goals against their enthusiasm.

An example
CP Operational Plan

• Summons (turn one focus on options 1 & 2)

1. Free Vargulf (if keeping Flayers is important)
2. Free 20x Ghouls (if objective holding is important at start or unlikely late game flanking)
3. Flayers (if vitally important and only if Feeding Frenzy can’t better support)

• Combat

1. Feeding Frenzy (almost always, save a CP if VPs are likely to shift)

• Utility

1. Inspiring Presence (if VP are threatened)
2. Others (avoided unless a specific charge or movement really screams of importance)

 

 

As you said i forgot a lot of things and reworking everything will be hard 😅

My operation plans are most of the time keep everything for feeding frenzy and i forget a lot my summons 😓 I will try to work on one !! 

 

I didn't say it but thanks a lot for all your advices !!

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

1 hour ago, Evil Bob said:

With regards to a plan for Command Points most armies only really need to save for inspirational presence and compare it against whatever their most favored alternative command ability is at hand.  Juggling inspirational presence and frenzy is bad enough.  Not going to lie I have used summons with GKoTG when those CPs would have been better spent feed frenzy.  The basic idea is to check one’s goals against their enthusiasm

This is why, when running a very similar Blisterskin list recently I dropped the 2nd AGKonRT for a 2nd Archregent and some extras,  the free summons with the Charnel Throne was worthwhile in freeing up an extra Feeding Frenzy, gave even more flexibility as to what I summoned, and better chance of having a key unit i; range for Archie’s spell.

That said I appreciate the desire for the full flap flap list...

[Honk]

1 hour ago, DaCapo said:

can play kick the terror for + 3 flayers in the unit of 3 flayers🤔

Which I think is the strongest option...

With a second infernal you have hero support for both squads and free options from your regent. And another 130 points... command point and cogs sounds good

Edited March 9, 2021 by Honk

[Sutek]

I'd stick with your original list.  Two big flappys will be fun.

[Evil Bob]

23 hours ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

This is why, when running a very similar Blisterskin list recently I dropped the 2nd AGKonRT for a 2nd Archregent and some extras

Would you be willing to share it and have a chat?

My problems with most Blisterskin lists is scraping together enough functional hammers.  In the back of my mind I look at Flayers (which were my favorite before the current book dropped) and knowing their capacities plus costs compared to other books it left me a bit depressed.  With power creep I’m pushed towards more extremes.  So anyone with success using  multi-AARs and Flayers has my attention.

[jhamslam]

Bravery bomb. if the opponent wont flee, then mortal wound them with Flayers and the Bravery debuffs. Thoughts?

 

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Blisterskin
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Abhorrant Archregent (240)
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)
- General
- Command Trait: Hellish Orator
- Artefact: The Grim Garland
- Lore of Madness: Monstrous Vigour
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Crypt Infernal Courtier (120)
- Artefact: Eye of Hysh

Battleline
6 x Crypt Flayers (340)
6 x Crypt Flayers (340)
3 x Crypt Flayers (170)

Units
2 x Morghast Harbingers (190)
- Spirit Swords
- Allies

Battalions
Deadwatch (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Horrorghast (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 190 / 400
Wounds: 99
 

Edited March 12, 2021 by jhamslam

[Honk]

1 hour ago, jhamslam said:

Thoughts?

Sounds like fun...

the poor Morghast will not be as tough as in LoN or obr, but -3 bravery and a bunch of screaming flayers 👻

[jhamslam]

2 minutes ago, Honk said:

Sounds like fun...

the poor Morghast will not be as tough as in LoN or obr, but -3 bravery and a bunch of screaming flayers 👻

Well in a perfect world -its -5 bravery

Horrorghast is -1 when 12 inches, -2 when 6 inches away

Grim Garland is -2 when 6 inches away

Morghast is -1 

So against mid bravery armies like DoK , LRL, youre doing MWs on 2d6 over rolls of 5, even with the -2 stipulation for being 3 inches away

[Honk]

1 hour ago, jhamslam said:

Well in a perfect world

I tried a bravery bomb in LoN, but my positioning was...lacking.

But if the stars align and the portents are right, it can be devastating. 

[jhamslam]

6 minutes ago, Honk said:

I tried a bravery bomb in LoN, but my positioning was...lacking.

But if the stars align and the portents are right, it can be devastating. 

I feel like this list has the positioning tools and is ultimately both a melee and shooty list so its better off. Its also not trying to make your opponent use Inspiring Presence, just pure MWs

Blisterskin gives you +2 movement, so 14 inch flayers and 16 inch terrorgheists

It lets you teleport your flayers where you want your shots. 

Horrorghast has an effective 21 inch range for -1 bravery

Morghast can move fast if they run to spread the -1 braverry but they also have like 9 inches of movement and a 3d6 charge.

So this list certainly can move where it has to

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by jhamslam