AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[KibaWildFang]

2 hours ago, N.I.B. said:

Yeah the Zombie Dragon aggressive spell is a nice tool. It's weird how AoS spells and command abilities are set, that you're forced to have a certain spell/CA just because you have a certain mount. It would be better to have the option of Malefic Hunger and summon a Varghulf on a Terrorgheist rider, the Zombie Dragon looks more like a tax you pay to get the abilities.

The second list can summon 2 Varghulfs, 10 Ghouls and 2x3 Crypt Horrors. Or Flayers. In this list, would Horrors or Flayers usually be better against most armies, or does it depend completely on the matchup? Asking because I want to know what to assemble.

From what feedback I’ve been getting, its matchup dependant. Flayers are good fast harassers, objective snaggers, and in bigger groups decent threats. Horrors are for dealing with Hordes and low save models. For me, my most common matchups are going to be Stormcast, Daemons of Khorne and possibly Fyreslayers. Out of all those,  Horrors would only be useful for me against Khorne, and even then I’m probably better off keeping to my flayer strategy.

A strategy Im looking forward to is either running a varghulf in the main list or summoning one in to support a bunch of flayers (for feeding frenzy, deathless courtiers, etc).

Edited February 17, 2020 by KibaWildFang

[Honk]

12 hours ago, N.I.B. said:

Then what is possible?

If I remember correctly, you can only „buy“ one additional command point...

so you going 1900 and battalion is not possible anymore.

[KibaWildFang]

2 hours ago, Honk said:

If I remember correctly, you can only „buy“ one additional command point...

so you going 1900 and battalion is not possible anymore.

Can confirm with research, as of GHB 2019 its one bought command point for 50, and an extra command point/relic per warscroll battallion.

[KibaWildFang]

So doing some thinking and chatting (open with that a lot I realized). How dangerous/tactically disadvantageous would it really be to summon in a Varghulf to support the 6 Flayer blob?  No guarantee that Ill be able to summon the Varghulf anywhere near the Flayers, who would have to get close to a board edge if they were in danger, and then likely away from anything useful... but being able to make the ghoul blob 40 instead of 30. Could then use the remaining 100 points to either bump up a ghoul squad to 20 or get a second Crypt Ghast Courtier and be able to cast Cadaverous Barricade.

Which is better, fellow courtiers?

[XcaliburNick]

43 minutes ago, KibaWildFang said:

So doing some thinking and chatting (open with that a lot I realized). How dangerous/tactically disadvantageous would it really be to summon in a Varghulf to support the 6 Flayer blob?  No guarantee that Ill be able to summon the Varghulf anywhere near the Flayers, who would have to get close to a board edge if they were in danger, and then likely away from anything useful... but being able to make the ghoul blob 40 instead of 30. Could then use the remaining 100 points to either bump up a ghoul squad to 20 or get a second Crypt Ghast Courtier and be able to cast Cadaverous Barricade.

Which is better, fellow courtiers?

I've been theory-hammering the right summoning mix as well. If you went Blisterskin you could possibly use the command ability after summoning the Varghulf to have it 'teleport' where you have the 6 flayers. I also like the idea of the 40-ghoul block, as from my calculations a big unit of flamers can kill roughly 26-28 ghouls on average (if they have their 'wound save').

[KibaWildFang]

1 hour ago, XcaliburNick said:

I've been theory-hammering the right summoning mix as well. If you went Blisterskin you could possibly use the command ability after summoning the Varghulf to have it 'teleport' where you have the 6 flayers. I also like the idea of the 40-ghoul block, as from my calculations a big unit of flamers can kill roughly 26-28 ghouls on average (if they have their 'wound save').

See, I would, but I’m so damned married to Feast Day/Suped-up AAR. Also easier to flavor your own court, instead of leaning on “splinter faction of X Grand Court”. Though if I had to, I could... but the free Frenzies! I think I’d miss them a lot. I’ve also decided to not go with the extra ghast/barricade. If Im using my precious casting on anything other than the buffs each abhorrant can bring, its going to be Chalice. Barrier could be nice, but AGKoRTG buff, AAR buff as well as Spectral Host are usually too important.

However, Barricade isn’t a bad move, its not as expected as chalice and can be good board control. (Also Im gonna get all the endless spells, Im gonna try to use them). Extra ghast courtier for mustering isn’t bad either. I’ll have to play around with it more.

Edited February 18, 2020 by KibaWildFang

[N.I.B.]

14 hours ago, Honk said:

If I remember correctly, you can only „buy“ one additional command point...

so you going 1900 and battalion is not possible anymore.

I don't follow. I would have 100pts to buy a CP, sounds like no problem. Btw, in the second list I would only take the Chalice and increase one Ghoul unit to 20 models, which would put me at 1950pts so I would afford a CP to make it exactly 2000pts.

Btw, what's the difference between Realm of Origin and Realm of Battle? Seems you can pick different realms in Battlescribe.  Battletome doesn't say anything about it. Source?

And what about Mount Traits - the battletome don't mention anything of the sort. Source? I can only find them in Battlescribe. EDIT - seems there's a new Battletome in town, Flesheater Courts 2019. I assume the mount traits are from there?

Furthermore, Zombie Dragons can take for instance the Razor-clawed mount trait. But it only affects the mount's attacks, then again there's only a single warscroll profile. Am I supposed to know which attacks are mount attacks, and which attacks are from the rider? The battletome mention 'King's Gory Talons' which I suppose are the vampire rider. Does he get the mount bonus to his attacks? Seeing how they share the same warscroll. 

About that first list I posted, why would the dude take the same spell on all 4 characters? In AoS I assume it's like in 40K and old Fantasy, that you can only cast the same spell once per turn?  

Edited February 18, 2020 by N.I.B.

[Honk]

3 hours ago, N.I.B. said:

15 hours ago, Honk said:

 

I don't follow. I would have 100pts to buy a CP, sounds like no problem

iirc you‘re only allowed to buy one extra cp... no matter how many points you have left.

that was one of the tragedies for the legion of Nagash Deathmarch battalion (black knight alpha strike). To super buff them (vamp lord, wight king), save charge and resummoning you needed 4 CP. 

same with neferata - double dragon lists, just not enough CP available 

[N.I.B.]

52 minutes ago, Honk said:

iirc you‘re only allowed to buy one extra cp... no matter how many points you have left.

that was one of the tragedies for the legion of Nagash Deathmarch battalion (black knight alpha strike). To super buff them (vamp lord, wight king), save charge and resummoning you needed 4 CP. 

same with neferata - double dragon lists, just not enough CP available 

Yes I know it's limited to 1CP, but I don't understand your comment about "so you going 1900 and battalion is not possible anymore." 

[KibaWildFang]

7 hours ago, XReN said:

You can also drop some lore flavor and magic proficiency of AAR, but get unbreakable pack of Ghouls and Courtier to support flayers from the start (and he can cast extra attack on them!)

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast Day
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Archregent (240)
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe
- Lore of Madness: Deranged Transformation
Crypt Infernal Courtier (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Dark Wizardy
Crypt Ghast Courtier (60)

Battleline
40 x Crypt Ghouls (360)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
3 x Crypt Horrors (130)
6 x Crypt Flayers (340)

Battalions
King's Ghouls (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chalice of Ushoran (50)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
 

@XReN brought this concept to my attention and it actually feels a lot better than the ghoul patrol list! The only correction is that the Infernal’s trait should be Dark Acolyte over Dark Wizardry, before anyone has to point it out. So now summoning the Varghulf can have him go where needed and I still have someone to babysit the flayers. Also the horrors can screen/be elite guard for the AAR!

Edited February 18, 2020 by KibaWildFang

[Honk]

7 hours ago, N.I.B. said:

but I don't understand your comment about

I guess the meaning gets lost in translation then 🤔

[Eldarain]

A conversion idea question friends.

I know the Terrorgeist comes on a large round but would it look ok on a normal monster Oval base? Or would it overhang excessively?

 

[Honk]

3 hours ago, Eldarain said:

would it look ok on a normal monster Oval base?

If we’re talking about „looks“, it might be alright.

the old world gheist was on a rectangular base and looked decent. the wings are a bit complicated, pretty pointy and relatively straight up, waiting to get stuck 🙈
 

 

there you have a top-down view, wings are pretty much all over the place 🥳👍

Edited February 19, 2020 by Honk

[N.I.B.]

This list looks fun and I assume it's pretty powerful (recently won a GT);

 

Realm: Shyish

Grand Court: Gristlegore

General Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist 420PT 

Artifact: Ethereal Amulet

Command Trait: Savage Strike

Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite

 SPELL - Blood Feast

 

Hero

Abhorrant Archregent 240PT

Artifact: Ghurish Mawshard

Spell Spectral Host 

 

Hero

Abhorrant Ghoul King 160PT

 Spell Spectral Host

Battleline

(3)

Terrorgheist 900PT

 

Battalions   Royal Menagerie 120PT

 

Endless Spells

Cogs 80 PT

Chalice of Ushoran  50PT

Swords 30PT

 

Btw, formatting on this forum is kind of terrible, seems there's no way to remove distance between lines of text. 

[KibaWildFang]

24 minutes ago, N.I.B. said:

This list looks fun and I assume it's pretty powerful (recently won a GT);

 

Realm: Shyish

Grand Court: Gristlegore

General Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist 420PT 

Artifact: Ethereal Amulet

Command Trait: Savage Strike

Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite

 SPELL - Blood Feast

 

Hero

Abhorrant Archregent 240PT

Artifact: Ghurish Mawshard

Spell Spectral Host 

 

Hero

Abhorrant Ghoul King 160PT

 Spell Spectral Host

Battleline

(3)

Terrorgheist 900PT

 

Battalions   Royal Menagerie 120PT

 

Endless Spells

Cogs 80 PT

Chalice of Ushoran  50PT

Swords 30PT

 

Btw, formatting on this forum is kind of terrible, seems there's no way to remove distance between lines of text. 

Im confused. I only see two battleline.

And yeah it’s a bit wonky

 

Edit: nevermind didn’t see the total 900 pt cost near gheists

Edited February 19, 2020 by KibaWildFang

[Honk]

5 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

I only see two battleline.

There are 3 terrorgheists, which are battleline in a gristlegore army...

Board control and holding objectives is going to be tricky

[KibaWildFang]

I think I’ve come up with a solid 1000 point starter list that can be made with two ghoul boxes, a Start Collecting, and a separate ghast courtier:

Feast Day

AGKoRTG (spectral host, gruesome bite, gryph feather charm, Majestic Horror)

Crypt Ghast Courtier

40 ghouls

10 ghouls

Extra Cp

summoning flayers

[KibaWildFang]

(Personal Court character files. Also some character erratas from the story I posted.)
Meet the Gravegorge Court!

King Vladislaus Veindrinker- The Sovereign-Eternal, Propserous Ruler, the Hand of Benevolence, among many other titles. The King who once grieved for the loss of his queen, Aleera, and accepted the aid of a mysterious stranger to bring her back and restore his kingdom to prosperity. [In reality, he is the Abhorrant Archregent, the one responsible for opening the ravaged lands of his kingdom to madness, and bringing back the souls of his queen and her court as Nighthaunt.]
 

Prince Viktor- Sky-Captain of the Gryphonheart Order and younger sibling of the King, Prince Viktor can often be seen patrolling the borders of the Kingdom atop his loyal Gryphon steed, Screamwing, flanked by his battalions of winged Sky-Knights. [In reality, while he once was the King’s brother,  he was overwhelmed by madness and dark magic, and gave in to his brother’s gift. He is now an Abhorrant Ghoul King who rides atop a horrific Terrorgheist, usually surrounded by a flock of Crypt Flayers.]

Prince Vorrik- The only son of the King, Prince Vorrik always wanted to become a Sky-Knight. His uncle warned him that it was forbidden for him to take part in the Rite of the Gryphon, for doing so involved imbibing Gryphon’s blood to induce the holy transformation, and that would taint his Royal Blood. As a solution, he scoured the land for his own mount, until he found a rare dragon and tamed it. The Prince is often watched over by his Father’s champion, Mordroi, who is always a call away. [In reality, the king’s son gave into the weight of his father’s power and delusion just as his uncle did. He is now an Abhorrant Ghoul King riding his Zombie Dragon, who can summon a voracious Varghulf at a moment’s notice.]
 

Sir Mordroi Ghulfang, the Indomitable- The King’s own champion and mightiest warrior, Sir Mordroi’s mere presence inspires zealotry in serfs and knights alike. With the King’s blessing, he often separates from formation to seek either hordes of enemies or mighty, heroic foes to test his blades against. He has kept vigil over the king’s son since his birth, always a silent caretaker or short-spoken mentor to the boy. [In reality, he is the primary Varghulf of the court. He seeks prey on the battlefield, be it lone figures or scrums of cowering enemies. His will can easily be overruled by an Abhorrant’s call.]

Sir Reginald von Fleshbaron, the Stoic—Voice of the People, King’s Advisor.  Not a native to Veindrinker’s lands, Sir Reginald is an knight-emissary sent from a foreign court, ambushed near his destination by savage barbarians. A hunting party from the Gravegorge court stumbled upon the scene and heroically chased the savages away, killing what miserable creatures Sir Reginald hadn’t already slain. They adopted Sir Reginald into the court with King Vladislaus’ blessing. Since then he has won the hearts of the commonfolk, so much so that the King appointed him mayor of the colony-town of Ghoulhaven, on the savage frontier. [In reality, he is a crypt ghast courtier from a foreign area that was absorbed into the delusion of King Veindrinker.]

There are other characters, but they are merely among the Crypt Flayers and Horrors of the court, and I’ve spent enough time writing this all down! Hope you all enjoyed the character I’m attempting to give my future army!

Edited February 22, 2020 by KibaWildFang
Spruced up Sir Reginald’s dossier!

[XReN]

5 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

There are other characters, but they are merely among the Crypt Flayers and Horrors of the court, and I’ve spent enough time writing this all down! Hope you all enjoyed the character I’m attempting to give my future army!

Good piece of lore, I should expand on my own Court and write something beside names and titles.

[XReN]

8 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

I think I’ve come up with a solid 1000 point starter list that can be made with two ghoul boxes, a Start Collecting, and a separate ghast courtier:

Feast Day

AGKoRTG (spectral host, gruesome bite, gryph feather charm, Majestic Horror)

Crypt Ghast Courtier

40 ghouls

10 ghouls

Extra Cp

summoning flayers

It's nice and straitforward list. And you can experiment with it by taking Chalice instead of CP, or even doing that AND making Ghast your general and giving him Dark Acolyte trait.

[XcaliburNick]

Hi everyone! I've narrowed it down overall to 2 options for my first Flesh Eater Courts army. I'm going to use Blisterskin, and I'm taking a Zombie Dragon King, an Archregent, 40 ghouls, 10 ghouls and 6 flayers as the core. Then I can't decide between the rest:

List 1 = Terrorgheist Ghoul King + Chalice (no battalion).

List 2 = Varghulf Courtier, 3 Horrors, Royal Mordants Battalion + Gemenids

Overall: I love the idea of using a dragon and a terrorgheist, but it feels like the battalion is a better bet.

Sanity check: I've heard from people on a discord group that 40 ghouls is actually disappointing in that it doesn't hit hard enough and dies too easily. In that case it might be better off to go Flayer heavy and Deadwatch, like I've seen a lot of lists do.

Help!

[XReN]

17 minutes ago, XcaliburNick said:

Hi everyone! I've narrowed it down overall to 2 options for my first Flesh Eater Courts army. I'm going to use Blisterskin, and I'm taking a Zombie Dragon King, an Archregent, 40 ghouls, 10 ghouls and 6 flayers as the core. Then I can't decide between the rest:

List 1 = Terrorgheist Ghoul King + Chalice (no battalion).

List 2 = Varghulf Courtier, 3 Horrors, Royal Mordants Battalion + Gemenids

Overall: I love the idea of using a dragon and a terrorgheist, but it feels like the battalion is a better bet.

Sanity check: I've heard from people on a discord group that 40 ghouls is actually disappointing in that it doesn't hit hard enough and dies too easily. In that case it might be better off to go Flayer heavy and Deadwatch, like I've seen a lot of lists do.

Help!

I'll recommend 2nd list with chalice or extra CP instead of gemenids. 

Considering ghouls: it can be meta thing, because 40 ghouls are a staple in my list and I get great value from them almost always. The reasons they may fail you are following: 
High save/damage prevent units tank them easily, everything else they will shred into ribbons
Battleshock management, it's hard to find a CP to make them autopass sometimes and after getting a good beating the rest of the unit will leg it. I had games when my 40 ghoul unit would be reduced to less than 10 models and as the game goes they will be back to full strenght.
Bad trades, when ghouls can't deal damage they should feed wounds to your monsters through the Chalice, or be brought back in long chains to mess opponent's movement options.

[XReN]

Now I'm going to share my list for local yearly 2 day narrative event:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Morgaunt
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Emperor Veinham Gizzardwurst - Harbringer (240)
Abhorrant Archregent
- General
- Command Trait: Savage Chivalry
- Artefact: Decrepit Coronet
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
Grand Duke Crawric Marrowclot (440)
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon
- Lore of Madness: Monstrous Vigour
- Mount Trait: Necrotic Fangs
Count Deadfell Retchscrote (160)
Abhorrant Ghoul King
- Lore of Madness: Miasmal Shroud
Marquis Fleckston Vilemunch (60)
Crypt Ghast Courtier
- Artefact: The Flayed Pennant
Lord Offalwin Livergut (60)
Crypt Ghast Courtier

Battleline
30 x Crypt Ghouls (300)
20 x Crypt Ghouls (200)
20 x Crypt Ghouls (200)

Units
1 x Corpse Cart (80)
- Allies

Battalions
Royal Family (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Shards of Valagharr (40)
Cadaverous Barricade (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 111

For any questions considering Royal family composition - It's legal, the ruling is somewhat obscure, however.
Here is a screenshot from 2nd ed rules about titles and sub-headers in Battalion composition:

Now here is mounted GK warscroll name, we can see that "Abhorrant Ghoul King" is the title and "on royal Zombie Dragon" is a sub-header:

That we ignore considering Battalion composition from battletome: 

 

[Craze]

This is quite interesting. The same is with Witchfyre Coven of DoT, where you need "Tzaangor Enlightened". In that case most of the people clearly agreed, that you can use then Enlightened on Discs, so then the same should be true here, meaning you can use ANY AGK for the 2-6.

[XReN]

41 minutes ago, Craze said:

This is quite interesting. The same is with Witchfyre Coven of DoT, where you need "Tzaangor Enlightened". In that case most of the people clearly agreed, that you can use then Enlightened on Discs, so then the same should be true here, meaning you can use ANY AGK for the 2-6.

Yep, can be good alternative to ghoul patrol, but cuts 1 less drop from your list.