AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[Honk]

I fear that we will ,as of now, not be able to compete with the same non-chalance as the new hotness... Fish-men, latex-sisters, nurgle filth, mighty shiny stomboys or even poor clown car overlords.

we have one of the most overpriced battleline, suffer from highly squishable support heros, suicide abilities (the trophy ability from the ghast is cool but totally stupid), barely any rend and wysiwyg no armor. Not to mention stupid battalions or they are expensive as hell... even royal family with double/triple gk-summoning struggles to achieve something.

So I guess you’ll just won’t win big tournaments as FEC player.

 

Now to the beautiful things in the life of a FEC Player:

it is fun...

if you know what your opponent is playing, you are able to design pretty cool counter lists...

keep your support heros save and nobody can outgrind us...

talking about cool...we are the coolest XD

we are pretty fast and can hit pretty hard 

if you don’t know how to deal with it, bury it in corpses (either a lot of small ones or larger ones)

always remember, it’s an objective based game... if you have enough VP, you might just get tabled, who cares...

saw a game on MWG against the shiny poster boys, he was extremely lucky on some rolls, but basically he charged in, blocked the board with 40 ghouls and started hoarding VPs. His gkotg and gkozd might/should have been killed turn 3 instead of 4, but they were just there to summon stuff in and distract the opponent from grabbing the objective.

His list was: gkozd (general), gkotg, gk, ghast, 40/10/10 ghouls, 6 horrors for 1940 

pretty good all around and horrors around a gkozd (reroll hit+wound) are scary

 

Enough rambling, more dice throwing...

[kenshin620]

Well at least FEC are affordable with their box sets!

 

Compared that to poor Fyreslayers who have to buy "elite priced" infantry yet have to run them as hordes to have any sort of chance.

[Glaurung]

What I think about new edition is hat we need to focus on obj gaming; we have been helped a little by this second edition, but it's still very difficult.
As already pointed out, ghouls are overpriced. The problem, compared to skeleton, is that our battleline does not punch hard enough.  Our heroes can pretty easily be shot by enemy shooting or magic, so positioning is the key. We can't charge everything and hen reanimate, AoS has become killier since the beginning, so our units suffer from this, because, unlike every other Death faction, we don't bring back units, but only models.

These are my thoughts:

- There are some battallions worth trying out. Royal family, has he greatest potential, with 1000 points of summoned units. It needs realm magic to be effective though, and a clarification about "Lords of the manor", so that we know if the "add" has the same meaning of the Ghoul Patrol one, that of adding above initial strength. Then we have Ghoul Patrol, with adding many Ghouls. I still think that it's not worth it, because it heavily focuses on ghouls, are overpriced unit. Lastly, i am testing a list using Attendants at court, as it gives many advantages, one of those is more CP for running to objectives and use Inspiring presence.
I am convinced we need to use one of these in order to have a chance, as we can reduce the number of drops, have more CP (essential for summoning) and use another artefact.

- I think we should focus on horrors, as they can tank and dish out some damage. I prefer a unit of nine, because it becomes impossible to kill, with some heroes near it.
- I prefer the King on dragon, because it's really useful to have the varghulf summon, over 3 flayers/horrors from the TG, I find them pretty lackluster...

[Reuben Parker]

Agree on all those points Glaurung. As I always repeat I am a lover of Royal Family. The push from GW for Realm Rules just helps it more. Also if your playing Add models above starting its by far and away the best. I have sent a query to GW FAQ but they only update every 6 months. I guess in interim just confirm with TO before hand if you want to run it. 

I am a huge fan of big horror blobs 36 wounds with save after save is normally enough to not get one shot (and if facing a super damage output unit try to cut down contact space), as an aside I think suffocating gravetide can help us in several ways (space control, bravery debuff and a spell for GK to cast).  If you have a couple of Varghulf and royal family your restoring an average of 6 per hero phase. Then its important to try to play second to stop double turns (as they can be deleted that way). 

I do really like FEC in 2nd edition and I would agree that they can't compete with the raw damage output of the battletomes mentioned. However I still think they can be very competitive. A lot of missions now have multiple objectives. FEC need to minimize big battles. Screen and grind then use our summons (at least if playing Royal family) to steal objectives.

There is still a lot to improve in the book though. I feel with the use of all command abilities now riderless monsters are almost pointless. Ghouls overpriced, I would argue that horrors and flayers also are by a bit. 160 gets you 5 blightkings or 120 gets you 3 yhetees. I sort of feel FEC should be in the middle around 140. This is made up for though with summoning and regen as over the course of the game FEC can bring 50-75 wounds extra to the table pretty easily.

[Grimnaud]

3 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

Agree on all those points Glaurung. As I always repeat I am a lover of Royal Family. The push from GW for Realm Rules just helps it more. Also if your playing Add models above starting its by far and away the best. I have sent a query to GW FAQ but they only update every 6 months. I guess in interim just confirm with TO before hand if you want to run it. 

Now, I see quite a few people here talking up the Royal Family batallion. And I need some help understanding why. The batallion costs a hundred and fifty point, consists of at least a GK on Terrorgheist or Zombie dragon, and at least two GK's on foot (neither of these requirements are bolded, so they're refering to the specific unit, not a general keyword). As near as I can tell the optimal start would be three GK's on foot, as that wouls allow you to spend six CP's. That will cost you 970 points for the batallion, GKoTG, and 3 GK's on foot. Now the first turn you'll use the Royal Family ability and summon another Ghoul King. According to the erreta that's a once per game ability. That nets you 140 points for free. And you'll use the second commandpoint on the GKoTG's ability, and lets assume that he has Majestic Horror as well, letting him summon in 320 points  worth of units with his once per game ability. Over the next four turns you'll use all four GK's on foots  once per game abilities to summon in a total of 400 points worth of Ghouls. So in total, the 970 points you spent gives you 860 points of summoning. Fair enough. But 860 points of what? Four units of ten ghouls? The last one will probably be more or less useless, coming in from an edge at turn 5. The Ghoul King you can summon is nice, but at that point you already have three of them, so he won't be able to cast any magic, or grant rerolls to anything that doesn't already have rerolls. 

Am I missing something here?

[Reuben Parker]

The command trait for double summon also works on the royal family GK summon so you get two. 

 

Most lists I run it in have 50 points spare for extra CP and probable triumph. Turn 1 summon double varghulf and double GK. Then either summon ghouls or save for Inspiring and then through the course of the game you get to summon ghouls (as long as GK don’t die first). 

 

GK when they have spells to cast via realm rules or endless spells are actually very good. 140 points for a tanky, regen decent Melee wizard that also has a keyword a number of FEC units trigger on.  At that point the ghouls are sort of just bonuses and you get the better regen on your horror / flayed units which is very handy.  

To me the battalion is great. Most lists want GK on monster and one foot GK for his spell. So only tax is a second GK who as I said with additional spells is solid anyway.  

————————

 

i would be interested to some attendants at court builds though. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Reuben Parker

[Glaurung]

This is the list I’m trying out. I think it’s very solid and can win the grind game.

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Delusion: The Grand Tournament
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon (440)
Varghulf Courtier (160)
Crypt Haunter Courtier (140)
- General
- Trait: Magestic Horror  

Battleline
30 x Crypt Ghouls (300)
6 x Crypt Horrors (320)
9 x Crypt Horrors (480)

Battalions
Attendants at Court (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 118
 

 

4 drops, 3 CP first turn, the ability to have 2x10 ghoul that can enter from the sides and steal objectives...

[Grimnaud]

7 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

The command trait for double summon also works on the royal family GK summon so you get two. 

Ahh. It makes more sense now. Thanks.

[Ulfast]

I got to ask another question: What kind of spells can we use? If I understand it right it´s only the one that are on every wizards (ghoul kings) and malign magic spells. Or have I missed something?

[Reuben Parker]

28 minutes ago, Ulfast said:

I got to ask another question: What kind of spells can we use? If I understand it right it´s only the one that are on every wizards (ghoul kings) and malign magic spells. Or have I missed something?

Yeah so their own warscroll spell. Mystic shield and bolt (both of which are pretty poor now especially on our low save models). 

Endless spells if you buy them (I like pendulum and suffocating gravetide). Then the optional spells for the realm your fighting in. GWs stance that they put out is that they believe realms should be used. So if your playing a game with realm spells the mass GK build is suddenly a lot more useful. 

[Ulfast]

@Reuben Thanks. That what was I thought. Hope that we perhaps get some hunger spell list or something

[Honk]

4 hours ago, Ulfast said:

some hunger spell list 

Black Hunger fits in every list...

Works like a charm on 9 horrors/flayers or even on 30 ghouls...

[Reuben Parker]

1 hour ago, Honk said:

Black Hunger fits in every list...

Works like a charm on 9 horrors/flayers or even on 30 ghouls...

I think they meant a whole new spell list called “hunger” and each of our wizards could pick an additional spell. 

 

But yes black hunger is great great especially on ghoul blobs. 

[Honk]

? a spell list for FEC?!?

Is it x-mas yet?

I fear that all the other armies without a book should get some love f.e. poor rats or tomb kings

[Glaurung]

Rats have so many options and command abilities, we don’t...

 

[nuttyknatty]

Sightings of FEC fighting a bovine enemy in Ghyran...........?

 

[Locien83]

A question I've been pondering on the Courtiers rules for returning slain models.

If we are now playing that units can grow above their starting value (as in ghoul patrol)

Can we do the same with Slain models? (to grow a unit bigger than it started if we have the slain models spare)

The Ghast courtier for example; the rule say return slain models to nearby unit of ghouls.  Yes I know the models have to have been slain but it doesn't say which unit they have been slain from.  Could we use this to take the Slain models from one unit and add them to another above it's starting size (as long as we have enough slain models for the increase)

As an example...

Say use Ghoul King command ability....those 10 ghouls die, next turn use the ghast to grow my unit of 30 above it's starting 30 with those 10 slain models?

I'm just curious as can't seem to find anything definitive on this in the rules??

[ClockworkGeo91]

Hey guys, just picked up the SC and the Nightfeast box to start these guys off. 

Advice as to build my first GK on a ZD or TG?

[Locien83]

6 minutes ago, ClockworkGeo91 said:

Hey guys, just picked up the SC and the Nightfeast box to start these guys off. 

Advice as to build my first GK on a ZD or TG?

For me it would depend on what you plan on building with the big guys, horrors or flayers, I've always felt the Zombie Dragon works better with Horrors than Flayers.

Terrorgheist with grim garland works nicely with flayers as they are all getting a buff to their scream attack

[Reuben Parker]

2 hours ago, Locien83 said:

A question I've been pondering on the Courtiers rules for returning slain models.

If we are now playing that units can grow above their starting value (as in ghoul patrol)

Can we do the same with Slain models? (to grow a unit bigger than it started if we have the slain models spare)

The Ghast courtier for example; the rule say return slain models to nearby unit of ghouls.  Yes I know the models have to have been slain but it doesn't say which unit they have been slain from.  Could we use this to take the Slain models from one unit and add them to another above it's starting size (as long as we have enough slain models for the increase)

As an example...

Say use Ghoul King command ability....those 10 ghouls die, next turn use the ghast to grow my unit of 30 above it's starting 30 with those 10 slain models?

I'm just curious as can't seem to find anything definitive on this in the rules??

I just checked the FAQ and RAW this seems to work. I think using RAI and the designers commentary on ghoul Patrol it doesn’t work. The ghoul Patrol one infers it’s special in that it allows units above their starting size unlike the return slain models. 

 

Also another aside in terms of what’s good with FEC. Horrors backed by GKoZD and GK spells average 1.5 damage per attack for 6 per model, even without rend that’s pretty insane damage output. 

[Fluttershy]

i like the idea.. but

Official Errata July 2018

Page 75 – Hints & Tips

Add the following: ‘Returning Slain Models: Several Flesh-eater Courts abilities allow you to return slain models to a unit. When you do so, set up the models one at a time within 1" of a model from the unit they are returning to (this can be a model you returned to the unit earlier in the same phase). The slain models you return to a unit can only be set up within 3" of an enemy unit if one or more models from the unit they are returning to are already within 3" of an enemy unit.’

 

the updated Warscrolls of Couriters are stating "return slain model.."

if your ghoul unit hasn't taken casulties you can't return ghouls to it. returning isn't spawning

 

the (untouched) Ghoul Patrol Ability Drawn to Battle states "add that many models to the unit" - so it's not a return of slain models, it's a spawn (add) of models

[Honk]

Yes, I second that. And claiming RAW is just something „that guy“ would do...

I am very sad about that 3“ from enemy thing. Those were some of the most beautiful „surprise“ moments I brought to my opponents XD

[Fluttershy]

1 minute ago, Honk said:

I am very sad about that 3“ from enemy thing. Those were some of the most beautiful „surprise“ moments I brought to my opponents XD

oh yes.. lovely good ol' days

[James S]

Hey all! Extremely new to FEC. Wanting to start working on an army for 2019 competitive play. Only army I play is Gutbusters. So this is a big change for me. 

So I was trying to read through the book, the GHB, Malign Sorcery, and all the FAQs. It's kind of overwhelming for a new player to this army. 

And so I made a list. And I'm not sure if it's legal or not so please share advice and tips. The idea is that the GKoZD gets to summon 2 Varghulf. The two AGK summon their small units of Ghouls. Next turn, use the special command ability of the GKoZD to summon two more AGK and then summon two more ghoul units. Of course this all depends on Command Point management. That's why the Brooch is there. 

The FAQ states that Ghoul Patrol can swell past its original ranks. Does that mean I can use Varghulfs to help replenish those units as well? Or only the Ghast Coutier can do that? Bit confusing and don't want to build my army and realize I'm doing things wrong.

Any feedback would be great guys, appreciate it!

[warhammernerd]

This may already have been answered, but just in case.

 

Can someone do gimme their best effort to explain how ghast courtier ‘muster men at arms’ works or doesn’t work in conjunction with  ghoul patrols ‘drawn to battle’?

 

My inclination, and assumption is that the courtiers ability, can only ever heal a unit up to it’s initial number. So a 10 pack, dropped down to 8 models, could have 2 models replaced to it at a maximum.

The ghoul patrol battalion faq, specifically states that models added to the unit can take unit above starting number and that there is no upper limit (though I’ve heard some people argue - not sure on what basis - that 40 would be max).

 

So, in terms of sequencing etc, can a unit which has been lifted above its starting quota, ie the 10 pack is now 15 thanks to batallion ability, then subsequently be healed back up to 15 by the courtier? In other words, is the unit now considered to be a 15 man unit, or are these extra models above the 10 a buffer, which stops the courtiers healing ability coming back into affect until the unit drops below its starting number, ie 10?

 

Seems a bit janky to play it this way, which is why I instinctively haven’t, but would like to know how people think it should be played?

 

cheers!