AoS 2 - Legion of Night Discussion

[Sartxac]

My enemy for secont time was cancelled the battle. Despite this, i fhigt 2000p army of order serpentis:

Allegiance: Order Serpentis
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Dreadlord on Black Dragon (320)
- Exile Blade & Shield
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
Dreadlord on Black Dragon (320)
- Exile Blade & Shield
- Artefact: Blade of Endings 
1 x Drakespawn Chariots (80)
10 x Drakespawn Knights (280)
10 x Drakespawn Knights (280)
10 x Executioners (160)
- Allies

10 x Executioners (160)
- Allies
War Hydra (180)
Thrall Warhost (180) (can charge in hero phase and repeat all 1 to wound)

Total: 1960 / 2000

 

Double dragon death list vs double dragon aelve list.

I begun firts the battle (he decided) in border war, i deployed the zombies in a L form with the necromancer inside.  With this i protect my objective and have the one of the others. Secondly i deployed the 40 skellies in the other objective with the vampire lord near 6" to  necromancer (for the other summon d3).

This battle benefits my legion because the +1 to save in my territory and the 4 tombs and 2 leaders summon new skellies and zombies and the extra command points for the bravery tests. I win only with this.

*Hydra+chariot shoots kill 4 zombies.

He attacks in his turn with 10 drakespawn (repeat 1 to wound and all hit impacts) and 10 executioners vs 40 skellies.  And 10 executiones, the hydra and chariot vs 60 zombies. He run with the dragon with endings blade over skeletons. The dragon with ethereal amulet and 10 drakespawn in his objective. 

First, attack with the 10 drakespawn and kill 15 skeletons. Aftes my 25 skelletons and kill 4 executioners and 2 drakespawn.  Next, 6 executioners kill 7 skelletons more. The zombies kill 4 executioners, 2 points to hydra and chariot kill. He kill 15 zombies. My skelletons kill 2 executioners and 1 drakespawn more.  

I use my 2 extra cp in the bravery list. 

Turn 2.

I begun first. after the summons i had 22 skeletons and 48 zombies. I deployed the 10 wolfs and two dragons, they fall all his charge rolls. Vampire Lord kill 2 drakespawn and 3 skeletons with a good amarantine orb. 

He charge the zombies in my objective and the wolfs with the drakespawn. All wolfs was dead.He kill 9 zombies with his other dragon. 

I charge with my vampire lord to the executioners.

Turn 3:

My vampire lord on zombie dragon charge to drakespawn and his general,  he kill 5 drakespawn, to his dragon with ethereal amulet (my dragon has his cp for repeat to hit) and he do 4 to my dragon with mystic shield. Vhordrai run to his objective.

Summary, i have major victory only for this battle type. His general was still alive in the final of the battle with 8 hits. He couldn't kill the 60 zombies with his dragons (around 30 zombies in the final of the battle and 20 skeletons in the final).

[Evil Bob]

5 hours ago, Binkbinkplx said:

I believe per the Core Rule Book, that Command Traits, and Artifacts do not affect Mounts, while everything else ( unless otherwise stated specifically on that Command Ability, spell, ect ) does. Since Unholy Impetus is a Legion of Night Command TRAIT,  I would say it does not affect the mount and thus only would buff the Lance.

Back in the dark days when Beastclaw Raiders we’re winning all tournaments with big monster lists GW heard the pleas of the vanquished and brought the nerf hammer down.  Personally I find it a bit murky when the CA explicitly stats “model” as in the entire model or unit.

[Sartxac]

Finally, my 2000p battle vs Seraphon.

Battle: three points of control in the meddle to 18" between else.  The first hero near 3" to this point win 1 points of victory every turn, and 2 points if this is the second turn continued three if this is thirst...

This list:

Allegiance: Order
Slann Starmaster (260)
Skink Priest (80)
- Cloak of Feathers
40 x Skinks (240)
- Boltspitters & Moonstone Clubs
40 x Skinks (240)
- Boltspitters & Moonstone Clubs
40 x Skinks (240)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
20 x Chameleon Skinks (480)
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
Heavenswatch Starhost (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

VS

Allegiance: Legion of Night
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Allegiance: Legion of Night
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Unholy Impetus
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Prince Vhordrai (480)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Dire Wolves (120)
60 x Zombies (320)

Total: 1890 / 2000

I lost by major default. And this battle was the clasificatory to the top 3 of this Barcelona league.

For the map I didn't use the ability ageless cunning. I push the two dragons near (13") and use his ability to fly fast to the objective points.  My VLoZD has 1 house in his droit, zombies in front of him and in his left.

In summary, my enemy began first and deploy the 6 Riders over the house!!! He kill my dragon in his charge. And Vhordrai didn't do nothing because my enemie summon big numbers of hordes of skins and my beast hasn't space to put his base.

[AHexInScarletRed]

I'm new; and for my first 2000 points, I'd like to use this list - it's fluffy first and foremost, but I'd rather not be stomped into the ground with it - so if I could have some insight from a competitive point of view, please  my opponents will play Seraphon, Stormcasts and Skaven! Ah, and the background is two Vampires roaming the night skies in their coach, so the coach is pretty mandatory, even if it's not the first choice in a competitive build. I'd have the two Vampires doing Ambush with the Blood Knights and the Vargheists, going for a hunt, while the Guardian of Souls and the Black Coach stay with the other Units until the Black Coach has enough Power Levels. 

 

Allegiance: Legion of Night

Mortal Realm: Shyish

 

LEADERS

Vampire Lord (140)

General

Command Trait : Above Suspicion

Nightmare

Artefact : Ethereal Amulet

Lore of the Vampires : Vile Transference

Vampire Lord (140)

Flying Horror

Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

 Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)

 

UNITS

40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)

5 x Dire Wolves (60)

5 x Dire Wolves (60)

5 x Dire Wolves (60)

 

5 x Blood Knights (240)

6 x Vargheists (320)

20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

 

BEHEMOTHS

Black Coach (280) - Allies

 

TOTAL: 2000/2000

Edited May 4, 2019 by AHexInScarletRed
Format

[Honk]

4 hours ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

so if I could have some insight from a competitive point of view, please

My experiences with LoNight are not really cut-throat competitive, but nonetheless...

Depending on your willingness to crunch the fluff, both vampires in ambush leaves your army a bit unsupported. the command ability is triggered durin the hero phase, same goes for buffing spells.

Things to keep in mind during set up and depending on the scenario you might want to deep think about what units to ambush.

Also „above suspicion“ might get switched for something else,  because only your general can resummon destroyed summonable units, if he ambushed and gets wrecked... no resummons.

Also to have at least one cp ready for battleshock or extra attacks or a critical charge (9“ ambush?!) you might want to drop one unit of puppies.

Necromancer?! Van hels is crazy good, but the guardian buffs your  nighthaunt units, tough decision. Same goes for not having a deathrattle „bait“ unit.

Otherwise you’ll have to make your own experiences, how to most effectively use the legion of the night, when how to ambush, and all that stuff...

 

good luck, have fun!!!

[AHexInScarletRed]

4 hours ago, Honk said:

My experiences with LoNight are not really cut-throat competitive, but nonetheless...

Depending on your willingness to crunch the fluff, both vampires in ambush leaves your army a bit unsupported. the command ability is triggered durin the hero phase, same goes for buffing spells.

Things to keep in mind during set up and depending on the scenario you might want to deep think about what units to ambush.

Also „above suspicion“ might get switched for something else,  because only your general can resummon destroyed summonable units, if he ambushed and gets wrecked... no resummons.

Also to have at least one cp ready for battleshock or extra attacks or a critical charge (9“ ambush?!) you might want to drop one unit of puppies.

Necromancer?! Van hels is crazy good, but the guardian buffs your  nighthaunt units, tough decision. Same goes for not having a deathrattle „bait“ unit.

Otherwise you’ll have to make your own experiences, how to most effectively use the legion of the night, when how to ambush, and all that stuff...

 

good luck, have fun!!!

Thanks a ton for reviewing the list and the great suggestions

I could field a Necromancer instead of the second Vampire (who's the Lady) in her earlier version; before she actually became one. Wouldn't break my fluff; ist just another spot on the timeline. I could simultaneously only have the Vargheists ambush (for example) and have both the Vampire and the Necromancer near the Black Coach (still fluffy ;p). This would leave me with Swift Form for the Lord and him being support from round one; and I guess I could field Skeletons instead of the Chainrasps for The Bait; which I'd also have the Necro for - and a second one for the Grimghasts; or the Guardian of Souls, still. Just painted up my Chainrasps and haven't got any Skeletons, though, so this'll probably be the last of those options I'll consider. 

[Honk]

1 hour ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

so this'll probably be the last of those options I'll consider. 

Best thing is to test it intensively.  Vargheist with Vampire ambush, the grimghast or the wolves, maybe even taking 10 Bloodknights. 

I had great fun with two terrorgheists (my opponent not really)...

[Evil Bob]

21 hours ago, Honk said:

My experiences with LoNight are not really cut-throat competitive, but nonetheless...

QFT

I find it odd.  On paper we are looking at a seriously flexible force when combined with CoGs and/or a 3d6” charge option.  Aaaaaaand yet here we are.  The alpha-strike-easy-button here seems to require more luck than tactical finesse, surprisingly unexpected.  Heaven help those who try a plug -and-play style here.

[Undeadly]

So here's a list I've been pondering over, thinking if this might not be a bad idea. Basically, the idea is to use the Zombies as a vice press, deep striking them in and using the Vampire Lord on Dragon to fly in and crush the enemy where needed. The Coven Throne should be there for buffs, but it could possibly replaced with more heros, or possibly a unit of Morghasts for heavier swings that come in from later on. Dire Wolves are there for early game pressure, raising them from Gravesites when my VLoZD swoops in to help tie up flanks. Also, the Corpse Carts are there for a bit of support and magical buffing.

 

Allegiance: Legion of Night
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Unholy Impetus 
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Coven Throne (260)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
60 x Zombies (320)
60 x Zombies (320)
10 x Dire Wolves (120)
1 x Corpse Cart (80)
1 x Corpse Cart (80)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1930 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 188

[Honk]

If you can place the zombers, cart and an hero on a board edge, things will turn ugly for your opponent pretty fast 🥳👍

with the cogs extra fast. Dragonlord and throne also goes nicely together... keep us informed 

[AHexInScarletRed]

New Player question: If I ambush with my Blood Knights and place them 9" from the enemy, then charge at least 6" because of the Horn Blower and can do a 3" Pile In Move, does this mean that as long as I'm able to place it 9" away from an enemy unit, the charge after my Ambush will always be successful? 

e: My bad, re-read the rules. Haven't played my first game yet, I beg pardon. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by AHexInScarletRed

[Honk]

1 hour ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

My bad, re-read the rules

Happens to me all the time, remember to check the faq and designers comments too, for LoN AND the core rules... some hidden gems in there too 😅👍

[AHexInScarletRed]

What's the best units to hypothetically ambush and kill a Stormcast Ballista in turn 1? I originally wanted to ambush with my Blood Knights or my Vargheists, but even with Cogs I have to get off first, the charge is not sure to be successful - if I drop a hero for the Command Ability there, it's even more points spent. I then thought about two Banshees, but these need to be very lucky with the scream rolls. 

[AverageBoss]

Morghast Harbingers with halberds probably. They are far from points efficient, but they are probably our best ambush option by far.

[Evil Bob]

7 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Morghast Harbingers with halberds probably. They are far from points efficient, but they are probably our best ambush option by far.

With an expected charge roll of 10.5” they don’t even need CoGs.  I prefer downgrading them to the sword outside the GHoN lists because how brutal it is rolling fewer dice. 

Pro-tip: Ambush a hero next to the Morghasts for the charge re-roll.

[AHexInScarletRed]

Thanks for the replies! I just posted a question into the lore thread regarding Morghasts not reanimated by Nagash, since the concept is Old School Vampires, not Nagash - but I figure if I want to use the ambush option, everything else is subpar in comparison.

I sure could field Cogs and send a Hero in with the Blood Knights or Vargheists, but this is more points and less probability than simply going with Morghasts, but oh - how I despise the models.

I'd probably go the route of reanimating something Necrarch style, constructing hideous beasts out of bone (which would still look more elegant than the Morghasts :p).

Any ideas on a cheap bravery bomb with Banshees? - They would probably work well with the Morghasts, but.. ah, well. 

[Evil Bob]

42 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

Morghasts, but oh - how I despise the models.

HI'd probably go the route of reanimating something Necrarch style, constructing hideous beasts out of bone (which would still look more elegant than the Morghasts :p).

Kit-bashing is life!  Some of the old Tomb King options might work.  The giant snakes would certainly justify the bravery de-buff.

 

43 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

Any ideas on a cheap bravery bomb with Banshees? - They would probably work well with the Morghasts, but.. ah, well. 

Battletomb:LoN never really was meant to push hard on leadership.  Some people (at least one person) run min Black Knights for the role.  I think the Devs gave undead banners that feature because they were running out of ideas for different armies. 

[AHexInScarletRed]

Allegiance: Legion of Night

Mortal Realm: Shyish

LEADERS

Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Swift Form 
- Nightmare
- Artefact : Ethereal Amulet 
- Lore of the Vampires : Vile Transference

Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages : Overwhelming Dread

Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)

Tomb Banshee (80)

UNITS

40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)

5 x Blood Knights (240)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds

BEHEMOTHS

Black Coach (280)
- Allies

ENDLESS SPELLS 

Chronomantic Cogs (60)

TOTAL: 1950/2000

EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 

 

Taking into account the conversation about units working well with the Ambush rule, I built this. I'd ambush with the Morghasts and the Banshee, giving me the charge re-roll and the Banshee's Scream targeting a unit who's Bravery is debuffed by the Morghasts. If I need to shield them, I'd also ambush with the Black Coach, as it's durable enough to withstand a potential counter attack. e: Forgot the Coach's Missile Attack to shoot something upon arrival. Having it not present on the table on turn 1 slows its generating of buffs, though, so I'd rather have it run there, but this depends on the size of the battlefield. Other options I have thought about are either a Terrorgheist to Shriek and shield the other units - or a unit of Black Knights, going for the charge supported by Cogs and also reducing the enemy unit's Bravery - or going in there with my Blood Knights and an additional Vampire to support them. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by AHexInScarletRed

[Ferrus65]

Is nightfall pack battalion a thing?

On a fluffy side I'm very intrigued from an army with Manfred, skeletons, some vargheists and maybe even a terrorgheist.

But I'm not sure the battalion Worth its points

[Evil Bob]

11 hours ago, Ferrus65 said:

But I'm not sure the battalion Worth its points

Most of the Battletomb:LoN are a trap, either to buy excessively into models that are no good or subvert people from building a good list.  One thing about that book is it is all about force composition.  More so than other army books.

Manfred won’t excel in any battlefield roll and the vargheists will be an uphill battle to make them useful at their cost.  They have some nominal value lurking behind skeletons and leaping over for added attacks.  Too expensive to run just as skirmishers and we have better options.

[Dolinarius]

I'm currently trying to make a LoN list out of my death collection. 

Wanted to field manfred,  but sadly he is to expensive and as I'm focusing on 1k games, he is out of the race before it starts... 

Necromancer (General)

Artefact: Curseblade/ Trait: unbeding will

Spell: decrepify

Wightking with Tomb Blade

40 Skeletons

5 Dogs

2x 2x Morghast Harbringers

 

The plan is, that as its a 1k game, not all edges can be covered, so there gonna be space for my 4 harbringers. 

The core is obviously the skeletons and the necromancer + wightking as somekind od a backup. 

Dogs do what dogs do

Thoughts? 

[Honk]

8 hours ago, Dolinarius said:

Thoughts

Looks pretty solid... 

I personally think overwhelming dread or fading vigor are better spells, but against van hels dance  it will be tricky to prioritize.

[Dolinarius]

van hels is a nobrainer in 90% of the situations. I choosed decrepify if there should be an annoying hero which I can't get rid of. Why no offensive MW spell? Because the Harbringers should be able to kill every thing with their punch an mobility, that the skeleton horde cant reach...

[Evil Bob]

On 7/28/2019 at 4:47 PM, Dolinarius said:

Snip

Necromancer (General)

Artefact: Curseblade/ Trait: unbeding will

Spell: decrepify

Snip

I’m a big fan of giving the Necromancer the Claw relic.  Getting a plus two to casting is serious business.

On 7/28/2019 at 4:47 PM, Dolinarius said:

snip

Wightking with Tomb Blade

Snip

This guy in your zones with a 2+ save.  Hilarious.

Although putting all your hero’s on the defensive could be planning to lose.

On 7/28/2019 at 4:47 PM, Dolinarius said:

I'm currently trying to make a LoN list out of my death collection. 

Snip

Thoughts? 

Not really missing out with that doofus out of the picture.

About the dogs.  One neat rick with LoN is throwing a summonable unit at the enemy using Ageless Cunning in such a way an important unit or two ends up grossly out of position to deal with it.  Then you just summon the sacrificial unit back with the general closer to where the real battle is.  At 1k such deviousness is  worthy of Manfreds fiction.

[Dolinarius]

sounds malignant - I love it  

thx for advise!