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AoS 2 - Legion of Night Discussion

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Don’t quite know how I missed this thread! 

Personally as @MrCharisma has already said. Ambush messes with your opponents deployment. As does gravesite markers. Combine these with potent threats in ambush (Harbringers or VLoZD/Terrorgheist) and your opponent cannot afford to over commit or his back line/hone objective is dead. I generally always charge turn 1 with my Harbringers to kill a small chaff unit or poorly positioned support hero. Then bring on a Terrorgheist as it’s scream is in range and either another unit of Harbringers or a VLoZD - spell loadout dependant ofc. Gives my opponents much more pressing concerns than my 3x 5 Dire Wolves or my 5 man Black Knight unit (in terrain obviously rocking a 2+ a/s thx to ‘the bait’ ) if he shoots my wolves his ranged units are then killed. I do usually deploy a single unit of wolves “in the grave” for late game objective grabbing in my opponents half. 

 

Wow, sorry for the wall of text! So in summary I find LoN favours playing very aggressively. Keep your opponent on the back foot and thinking defensively. It’s a gamble but the flappies are pretty durable and with Vile Transference they can be extremely annoying to finish off.

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21 hours ago, WeeDaveSoutar said:

30 Grave Guard (Sword and Board

Not criticising, but I am interested in your reason for not using the 2h option.

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The list is classic... 

it turned out to be a draw, but my 2x2 morghast brawled with a whole nurgle army until it was to late for him to do anything relevant.

Sadly only 1,5k list so no terrorgheist and no vlozd 

and yes, please 2-handed blades for the guard

Edited by Honk

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Letting our faction discussion thread fall off the front page? For shame!

Anyway, I've been lurking around here a lot, but I figured that with 2.0 out I might as well join the community and give my 2 cents' worth.  IMO the Soulwar box has helped us a lot more than the other LoN allegiances, and that's because of the mKoS. What this bad boy gives us is a command ability buff that isn't limited to the hero phase (unlike basically every other buff in the faction), and that isn't stapled to a 420-point, must-be-general body (Manny boy himself). The one caveat is of course that he only hits Nighthaunt, but Soulwar of course gave us an excellent Nighthaunt hammer unit to work with!

 

With that in mind, here's what I'm working with at the moment:

Allegiance: Legion of Night

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Swift Form 
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Morbheg's Claw 
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Units
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 930 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 81
 

I'll be taking this out for a spin only this weekend, so let me know what you guys think and if I should make any changes before then?

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Necro+Skellies+Dogs need no explanation, I hope.

Grimghasts are what I'm testing as the new hammer. Theory: at 1000pts games there isn't sufficient model count for the opponent to reliably block off all gravesite vectors, so with clever gravesite placement we can go with mKoS in ambush coming in behind/beside the enemy line onto a gravesite - while at the same time pulling up the grimghasts from the grave onto that same gravesite. If cogs have been tuned to +2" charge on that turn, there's a good chance of resolving a 20-man grimghast flank charge into the enemy lines, backed up by the mKoS +1 attack buff (which you don't even need to commit if they fail their charge, saving you that CP).

Of course if you see a horde across the table with sufficient mass to block off gravesite vectors you can play a more traditional game and set up the grimghasts in ambush as well.

The gravesite trick is notable because it extends the effective threat range of the ambush move by a huge margin, as long as you have one in range. This, in turn, is only worth considering because of the combination of factors the Soulwar box provides: 1) a Summonable unit with the right combination of cost-effectiveness and durability, and 2) a Hero that enables and enhances that game plan with a timing-appropriate buff.

Who knows, maybe it's still not enough and the best things to ambush are still Vargs and Harbingers. But at the very least, it's worth trying!

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Thanks for the explanation ? I wasn't sure if there was another layer I wasn't getting - much clearer now.

Much appreciated! 

Edited by Captain Roderick
Tweaking

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On 7/11/2018 at 4:06 PM, Jai said:

*SNIP*

Who knows, maybe it's still not enough and the best things to ambush are still Vargs and Harbingers. But at the very least, it's worth trying!

How did you get on with this list?

I'm currently rethinking my double VLzod, Necromancer, Skellies, Dogs and Morghasts list to somehow include a bulk of Night Haunt stuff. Not sure if Legion of Night is the right Legion for that though.

The bait is a nice rule, but I feel I may as well just run Chainrasps as their save isn't dependent on board placement. Having a similar dilemma with our ambush rule since the majority of the Night Haunt stuff we have available is Summonable anyway so doesn't need the Legion of Night special rule to appear wherever they want. It seems best reserved for Terrorgheists and Morghasts.

How are you guys getting on with this Legion, or have you jumped ship? ?

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Here is my list, which I've had a fair amount of success in friendly games of course. I'm yet to try this in a real competitive scene

 

 

Leaders

Mannfred

- General

- Overwhelming dread 

Vampire lord on Zombie Dragon

- Ethereal amulet

-  Amethistine Pinions

Necromancer

- Fading Vigour

Battleline

2x 40 skellies

5 wolves

Hammers

2 Morghast Harbingers

- Halberds

3 Vargheists

Endless Spells

Soulsnare Shackles

Total 1990/2000

Wounds 144

Extra CP 0

Basically, Morghasts and Vargheists in the ambush. The VLOZD, skellies and necromancer deployed, and depending on scenario, wolves in grave or on board edge of the DZ. Mannfred deployment is opponent dependant.  If theres a threat on table that will potential wipe him off in one round from range, hes in ambush.  Thats where the VLOZD steps in. the 3+ ethereal allows him to take the heat and lock down any ranged units before Manny comes into play. Other wise he is deployed to get his Command ability off. Vargheists held back for the light hero on foot or single wound infantry, Morghasts to deal with any heavy armored threat (Kurnoth hunters, etc). The Deathrattle move into positions for superior board control. 

With the 'gheists all in ambush  opponents generally deploy further back then they would like, allowing the 80 skeletons to move in and sit on objectives, supported by grave sites and necromancer. 

I'm quite new to the hobby, I started around the release of the LON book, drawn to the play style of Night, I've tried many different combinations all utilizing Mannfred and I have found him paired with an ethereal VLOZD has been the most successful thus far.

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the 2 main problems here are.....

1. to build those 80 skellies (really painfull to build, I did 40 only :$ shame on me)

2. to move 80 skellies on board. soooooooooooooo long that my opponent goes to a nap when I charge.

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Wolves are pretty solid ....but now that we have reapers, it is hard to find them a place other than min battleline. I'll try them at 20. They are so cheap

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I think that building death armies overall is hard actually. Or it's maybe just me making bad decisions and haven't understood the synergy of how to play a death army. How do you guys play? Any good tips and tricks?!

But anyhow, this is the list i've made up for a match this weekend against a Stormcast Eternals player. What you guys/girls reckon?

Allegiance: Legion of Night
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Mannfred Mortarch Of Night (420)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Vile Transference (Vampires)
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- Lore of the Dead: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Talisman of the Watcher 
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Units
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)
10 x Grave Guard (160)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
10 x Grave Guard (160)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 132

Idea behind the list;
-Dire Wolves I'll use as charge blockades for the the army where it will be needed. 
-Grimghast Reapers will be kinda the hammer in this army as well the Grave Guard. Together with the Vampire Lords CA and the spell of the Necromancer I can buff up the "hammers" to do one more attack as well pile in one time more.
-Arkhan will try to throw spells and take away minor units just to clear of the competition on objectives.
-Mannfreds CA is very useful in scenarios where i'll meet harder units in which i want to get as many attacks in as possible just to be sure to kill some units of before they can retaliate. 
- Talisman of the Watcher will also prove useful for the Skeleton Warriors thus I always rolls ones when i save. ;) 

Please give tips and tricks! I'll need all the tips I can put in my bag to become a better player.
Thanks in advance! 

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17 minutes ago, ModerTherese said:

Together with the Vampire Lords CA and the spell of the Necromancer I can buff up the "hammers" to do one more attack as well pile in one time more.

They are set up after the movement phase, so you can use your command abilities. But van hels is not available first turn.

I‘m not a big fan of 10 men graveguard, they just die too easily. For resurrection you‘ll need CPs also for the awesome command abilities of arkhan and mannfred.

but you do you...

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Agreed on the 2x10 Grave Guard, they likely won't achieve much. Most likely they would sit on an objective, or fight another objective-grabber unit. Either way you'd be better off with something like 2x20 Chainrasps for that.

Alternatively you could ambush a Terrorghiest, or 40 Skeletons (with points spare for some Endless Spell).

I really like Grave Guard but I think they may be a hindrance to your army in this case sadly. Hopefully we get a Deathrattle book at some point.

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I love the Grave guards. the miniature. Since NH launched, they lost their superb because of the mobility of the reapers. But they still are deadly. I feel that a unit of 10 is pretty much useless: lack of mobility and resistance. I play them by 20 or even 30. One big unit with  grand axe.  They can pretty much melt everything....and be revived later. 

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On 8/9/2018 at 1:32 PM, GeneralZero said:

Wolves are pretty solid ....but now that we have reapers, it is hard to find them a place other than min battleline. I'll try them at 20. They are so cheap

Obviously reapers are better, but the Direwolves (with the cart) are double the number of wounds, faster, and battleline.  Plus they take up HUGE amount space which can be quite helpful for board/objective control.  I don't know.  

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I'd thought I'd post this here while I do some theory crafting. Based off the Deathmarch list used in LoS, this is a list designed to emmulate it, while adding in a heavier hammer; specifically, the Grimghasts and 2 VLoZD.

 

While certainly not as punchy as a pure LoB and VLoZD list, nor as fast as a Deathmarch LoS list, I feel like the offensive potential and ability to engage quickly from multiple vectors could prove to be intresting. Although I am so tempted to drop 5 BK or 10 grimghasts to get that lovely OD Necromancer to synergize with the Cloak VLoZD.

 

Allegiance: Death
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon(440)
- General
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Unholy Impetus 
- Artefact: Chiropteric Cloak 
- Lore of the Vampires: Spirit Gale
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon(440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade(120)
- Mount: Steed
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Black Knights (240)
5 x Grave Guard (80)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)
Deathmarch (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108

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Allegiance: Legion of Night
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Mannfred Mortarch Of Night (420)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)
Vampire Lord (140)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades

Units
6 x Vargheists (320)
10 x Grave Guard (160)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)

Battalions
Nightfall Pack (170)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
 

i think there’s potential in this list to be absolutely filthy. 

I’m fairly certain I either don’t want anything in ambush, or if I do probably the block of 40 skeletons. 

The nova potential to absolutely smash someone is pretty solid here: give turn 1 to the enemy and let them move up onto objectives. You then go to turn 1. Command Point for Vampire Lord onto Vargheists, Command Point on Mannfred to re-roll, cast Chronomatic Cogs. All of your units can fly in the Deathball. 

Chronomatic Cogs gives Mannfred 18” move, Vampire Lord can go 12”, I would probably run him to keep up, he sucks in melee so why charge. Vargheists go 14”. Everyone gets plus 2 to their charge. Throw the Mortis Engine up field too, 16” and throw it into combat near Mannfred. 

With the Battalion and VL Command Ability Vargheists are throwing out 30 3/3/-1/2 attacks rr1’s. Mannfred is a beast in combat. 

Next turn you’ll probably get hurt and that’s ok. Vargheists will take some wounds, maybe Mannfred too. So then you open with Soul Harvest, then do Wind of Death, then pop the reliquary and that’s 3D3 total damage to one unit, 2D3 +1 to several other units and 1D3 damage or so healing to your wounded Vargheists and Mannfred himself, then you attack with them again after all of your spells and abilities. 

The enemy should be crippled at this point and you still have 40 skeletons and a Necromancer in the back supporting. Vargheists could even still have 24 attacks, even if they didn’t charge they’re still deadly. 

I think the alpha strike hammer potential is insane especially if you get a double turn. 

Thoughts on such a list? 

Edited by Ravinsild

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Testing out this list tonight.

My plan is the wraith just hangs off board until I need to summon a unit back form the dead.

The units are meat shields that will wear the enemy down , and if they do kill one of the main unints , I can bring them back,

I'm just not having any luck with Manfred or my VLOZD :(

Allegiance: Legion of Night
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Cairn Wraith (60)
- General
- Trait: Above Suspicion 
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- Mount: Steed
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades

Units
30 x Grave Guard (420)
- Great Wight Blades
15 x Black Knights (360)
9 x Spirit Hosts (360)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 176
 

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1 hour ago, Keith said:

My plan is the wraith just hangs off board until I need to summon a unit back form the dead.

Could you please elaborate on that? 

With above suspicion, your general lies securely in ambush, I can see that. But when you want to resummon one of your units, you’ll have to do that during hero phase, while the set-up of your general is after (end of) the movement phase, so you‘ll have to wait another turn to be able to resummon... or do you pre-ambush, when you think fe the blackknights will get crushed this round, gotta get him in? Not sure if I would like a sturdier character better for general, good round of half decent shooting will put him to rest, or you have to resummon somewhere in the far outbacks.

 

but maybe I’m missing a detail...

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4 hours ago, Keith said:

Testing out this list tonight.

My plan is the wraith just hangs off board until I need to summon a unit back form the dead.

That's a clever idea! I don't play Legion of Night so I'm not too familiar, but I assume the idea is to arrive via Ambush to a Gravesite and then immediately us a Command Point to summon a unit?

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2 hours ago, Honk said:

Could you please elaborate on that? 

With above suspicion, your general lies securely in ambush, I can see that. But when you want to resummon one of your units, you’ll have to do that during hero phase, while the set-up of your general is after (end of) the movement phase, so you‘ll have to wait another turn to be able to resummon... or do you pre-ambush, when you think fe the blackknights will get crushed this round, gotta get him in? Not sure if I would like a sturdier character better for general, good round of half decent shooting will put him to rest, or you have to resummon somewhere in the far outbacks.

 

but maybe I’m missing a detail...

Pages 63, 65, 67 and 69 – Command Ability, Endless Legions Change to: ‘You can use this command ability at the end of your movement phase. If you do so, pick a gravesite that is within 9" of your general, and then pick a friendly Summonable unit that has been destroyed. Set up that unit wholly within 9" of that gravesite and more than 9" from any enemy units.’

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6 hours ago, Honk said:

Could you please elaborate on that? 

With above suspicion, your general lies securely in ambush, I can see that. But when you want to resummon one of your units, you’ll have to do that during hero phase, while the set-up of your general is after (end of) the movement phase, so you‘ll have to wait another turn to be able to resummon... or do you pre-ambush, when you think fe the blackknights will get crushed this round, gotta get him in? Not sure if I would like a sturdier character better for general, good round of half decent shooting will put him to rest, or you have to resummon somewhere in the far outbacks.

 

but maybe I’m missing a detail...

the command ability to bring back dead unit was changed in a recent FAQ. It's now used at the end of the movement phase exactly at the same time the cairn wraith go out of ambush! ;) so you can use it!

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What do you guys think of this list?

Legion of Night

VLoZD, Shield, Lance (Artefact: Ethereal Armor), Trait: Swift Form, Vile Transference

Necromancer, Overwhelming Dread

Vampire Lord with Wings, Soulspike

Wight King with Shield

40 spear skeletons

40 spear skeletons

10 dire wolves

30 grave guard with shields

Geminids of Ulg-Hysh

 

Do you feel like I should split units to have more MSU board presence? Is the unit of 10 dire wolves better since it has more threat when it appears?

I don't have Harbingers, because otherwise I'd field 2 or 4 in order to make use of their outstanding alpha strike potential. The models I have on top of those I listed here are 2x5 hexwraiths, a corpse cart, 60 zombies and 10 more dire wolves.

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