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AoS 2 - Legion of Sacrament Discussion


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curse of years got weird....

2
Warhammer Age of Sigmar – Battletome: Legions of Nagash, Designers’ Commentary
Q: With Curse of Years, are rolls that may negate the mortal
wounds inflicted by the spell taken immediately after the
wounds are caused, but before you roll the dice again to see if
any more mortal wounds are suffered by the target unit? If yes,
do I get to roll for additional mortal wounds for wounds that
were negated?
A: Yes to the first question, and no to the
second question

 

 

Q: With the Curse of Years spell, if I manage to keep on
inflicting wounds until the roll to inflict further wounds
becomes a 1 or more, does this mean that the target unit will
be destroyed?
A: Yes

 

 

so by these they get saves and reduce dice til you hit 1+ then the unit is just straight up destroyed.... nice

 

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On 7/29/2018 at 3:46 PM, Sception said:

Yeah, i think I'm going to be "that guy" for a while.  Will maybe switch to a zombie based list for a couple weeks as penance.  ?

Don't suppose you would be willing to share a list? I'm guessing, but it seems that your build is more magic heavy which would be an interesting change of pace when I get bored with my mass horde approach.

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Wasn't a sacrament list, was a 3k grand host list for a 2v2 narrative big game.  First cohort (2 archai, 2x40 skittles, 30 gg) plus arkhan, vamp lord, 2xnecro, spellportals, 2 extra CP, alongside 2.5k of beastclaw raiders agains 5.5k of skanev defending a dreadhold.  The skaven invested heavily in weapon teams, there were over 20 morters.  I actually rolled pretty poorly on the nuke, dropping only about a quarter of said teams, but that was apparently enough to suck all the fun out of the game for them.

I feel bad about it, though I honestly don't thonk the one time nuke had that big of an effect on the game.  Honestly, the beastclaws did more damage, trampling everything outside of the dreadhold, including verminking, but it was nagash who drew all the hate, leading to the skaven players quitting after turn one, both clearly mad at me, and one swearing to never play against nagash again.

Which, i mean, the nuke they were so mad about was all arkhan, even if nagash cast the spell, but i suppose it's better they blame nagash since i use him a lot less than arkhan.  At least they didn't swear to never play against me again.  The AoS player pool around me is shallow enough already.

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I have not had any luck with zombies, not since they lost their mob up rule.  They're too expensive (40 points more than skittles for a max unit), they hit like pillows, and they either crumble to battleshock or devour your CP on inspiring presence.  They're more speed bump than tar pit.  Maybe if we had strong offensive magic to kill things while they were busy fighting zombies, but our best spells are debuffs to help our killier units win fights.  The units themselves still have to be able to fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

So... max skeletons or min dire wolves for core.  Maybe (maybe) chainrasps, if you're already taking guardians and/or torments to buff grimghasts.  At least, if you're trying to win.  If you're looking to throw a few games as penance for some terrible game crime, then zombies are fine.

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13 minutes ago, smucreo said:

I see lots of people putting grimghast on their lists, are they that good or is it just the novelty aspect of them?

They tear units over 5 apart from my 2 games with them so far. Not bad either against under 5. And hard to shift ignoring rend and benefiting from gravesites, DI, and lantern spell if you have it. Then if removed can just re-summon. The 2" reach and 8" fly is good too.

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37 minutes ago, LJ26 said:

Indeed, although the my unit hasn't been wiped yet to use it

not really lol: I noticed that most of our full sized mobs units are really hard to wipe out, in fact, they almost never died (40 skellies., 30 reapers, 30 GG, ...) Only once, my Grave guard died but only at 20 mobs.:P

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On 8/1/2018 at 10:38 AM, Sception said:

Wasn't a sacrament list, was a 3k grand host list for a 2v2 narrative big game.  First cohort (2 archai, 2x40 skittles, 30 gg) plus arkhan, vamp lord, 2xnecro, spellportals, 2 extra CP, alongside 2.5k of beastclaw raiders agains 5.5k of skanev defending a dreadhold.  The skaven invested heavily in weapon teams, there were over 20 morters.  I actually rolled pretty poorly on the nuke, dropping only about a quarter of said teams, but that was apparently enough to suck all the fun out of the game for them.

I feel bad about it, though I honestly don't thonk the one time nuke had that big of an effect on the game.  Honestly, the beastclaws did more damage, trampling everything outside of the dreadhold, including verminking, but it was nagash who drew all the hate, leading to the skaven players quitting after turn one, both clearly mad at me, and one swearing to never play against nagash again.

Which, i mean, the nuke they were so mad about was all arkhan, even if nagash cast the spell, but i suppose it's better they blame nagash since i use him a lot less than arkhan.  At least they didn't swear to never play against me again.  The AoS player pool around me is shallow enough already.

I think the concensus at the table was mostly that arkhan's ability stacking needed a nerf, and that losing all of the mortars AND a good chunk of the larger smash units they had to good rolls from BCR charges made the rest of the game a no-contest issue (they just had stormfiends, screaming bell and some heroes left)

For those wondering I was the BCR player in question.

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nerf to spellportal is that it can only be used for one spell per phase, and that other endless spells cannot be cast through it.

Only real 'crazy combo' for sacrament that I see is using arkhan's command ability multiple times in a single hero phase for a massive range improvement, followed by the deathmage spell soul harvest to deal d3 mortals to every unit in that range, possibly through a spellportal to measure the range from 18" up.  against many opponents won't matter that much, d3 isn't a particularly large number of wounds, and the multipel CP cost means you probably are only pulling it off once per game, but against some armies with many tiny units it can be pretty devastating.

otherwise, it's not so much combos as just some very good units (eg, skeletons, grimghasts) with good recursion mechanics (gravesights, deathly invocation, endless legions), and multiple casting & dispel buffs, helping us resist enemy spells and force through our own, in an edition where magic seems to be, if not dominating, at least a fair bit more significant than before.

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Hey guys, anyone willing to provide feedback on this list? My big questions are what is the ideal size for the chainrasps, and could the 80 points for the extra 10 plus the points on the hosts be used more wisely on something else?
 

LEADERS
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead : Soul Harvest (Deathmages)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact : Shroud of Darkness 
- Lore of the Deathmages : Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages : Fading Vigour
Vampire Lord (140)
- Flying Horror
- Artefact : Wristbands of Black Gold 
- Lore of the Vampires : Vile Transference
UNITS
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
-Ancient Spears
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
BEHEMOTHS
Mortis Engine (180)
BATTALIONS
Lords of Sacrament (130)

Endless Spells
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 147

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23 hours ago, Sception said:

nerf to spellportal is that it can only be used for one spell per phase, and that other endless spells cannot be cast through it.

Only real 'crazy combo' for sacrament that I see is using arkhan's command ability multiple times in a single hero phase for a massive range improvement, followed by the deathmage spell soul harvest to deal d3 mortals to every unit in that range, possibly through a spellportal to measure the range from 18" up.  against many opponents won't matter that much, d3 isn't a particularly large number of wounds, and the multipel CP cost means you probably are only pulling it off once per game, but against some armies with many tiny units it can be pretty devastating.

otherwise, it's not so much combos as just some very good units (eg, skeletons, grimghasts) with good recursion mechanics (gravesights, deathly invocation, endless legions), and multiple casting & dispel buffs, helping us resist enemy spells and force through our own, in an edition where magic seems to be, if not dominating, at least a fair bit more significant than before.

Thanks mate - good summary!

One spell per phase on the portal is awful, what's even the point now?! :P

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On 8/1/2018 at 9:49 AM, smucreo said:

I see lots of people putting grimghast on their lists, are they that good or is it just the novelty aspect of them?

They are that good. Their offensive efficiency is very high and they aren't bad on defensive efficiency either (particularly against rend). They have good move and fly as well -- just a great all around unit.

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14 hours ago, Charlo said:

Thanks mate - good summary!

One spell per phase on the portal is awful, what's even the point now?! :P

Hand of dust and soul harvest mainly, the latter mostly only with arkhan.  Even if his CA ability is errata'd not to stack with itself, a 9" diameter d3 mortals grenade that can be lobbed 18" is enough to justify the 60 points.  Also can be good with spectral grasp.  I probably wouldn't take the soellportals outside of nagash lists, but they're not unysable with arkhan.

Probably shouldnt still be 60 points, though.

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On 8/5/2018 at 5:57 AM, Sception said:

Hand of dust and soul harvest mainly, the latter mostly only with arkhan.  Even if his CA ability is errata'd not to stack with itself, a 9" diameter d3 mortals grenade that can be lobbed 18" is enough to justify the 60 points.  Also can be good with spectral grasp.  I probably wouldn't take the soellportals outside of nagash lists, but they're not unysable with arkhan.

Probably shouldnt still be 60 points, though.

I was at Blackout last weekends and I was casting soul harvest through a spell portal by a necromancer on a balewind and 2 Arkhan command points for a 21" radius. Went off on natural 9s on two of my games on the first turns and I tabled both those opponents. 

I won 3 of my 5 games: I lost one game against another Arkhan list (due to my own misplay) and I got squashed by seraphon on one game where there were six objectives and I didn't have enough units and my magics failed mr. 

It's a very powerful combo when it goes off

Edited by Carnelian
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On 8/4/2018 at 2:03 PM, Marthen said:

Hey guys, anyone willing to provide feedback on this list? My big questions are what is the ideal size for the chainrasps, and could the 80 points for the extra 10 plus the points on the hosts be used more wisely on something else?
 

LEADERS
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead : Soul Harvest (Deathmages)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact : Shroud of Darkness 
- Lore of the Deathmages : Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages : Fading Vigour
Vampire Lord (140)
- Flying Horror
- Artefact : Wristbands of Black Gold 
- Lore of the Vampires : Vile Transference
UNITS
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
-Ancient Spears
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
BEHEMOTHS
Mortis Engine (180)
BATTALIONS
Lords of Sacrament (130)

Endless Spells
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 147

That's pretty much the list I'm taking to Pompey Pillage tomorrow except that I don't have any reapers.  I've got 40 Chainrasps and a Guardian of Souls to sit amongst them. buff them and bring some back.

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On 8/3/2018 at 4:23 PM, Sception said:

Only real 'crazy combo' for sacrament that I see is using arkhan's command ability multiple times in a single hero phase for a massive range improvement, followed by the deathmage spell soul harvest to deal d3 mortals to every unit in that range, possibly through a spellportal to measure the range from 18" up. 

Just had a discussion about this combo in my gaming club. Consensus was going in the direction, that the spell is an aura effect and as such not able to „creep“ through a portal. You do not measure a „range“ but it says within 3“ of the caster.

Arkhan could still boost the AoE.

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1 hour ago, Honk said:

Just had a discussion about this combo in my gaming club. Consensus was going in the direction, that the spell is an aura effect and as such not able to „creep“ through a portal. You do not measure a „range“ but it says within 3“ of the caster.

Arkhan could still boost the AoE.

And other spells are "within 9" of the caster" or "within 18" of the caster" or what have you.  Soul harvest has the exact same "of the caster" wording for range as every other spell, it just hits "each enemy unit" within the listed range instead of "one enemy unit".  If soul harvest doesn't work through the portals because its spell text spevifies that range is measured from the caster, than there are no spells that can be cast through the portal.

There is no reason why it wouldn't work through the portals like anything else, and the portals themselves are of such limited edge case utility post nerf that I'm not sure why your club would feel the need to neef them further by removing one of the very few spell interactions they're still almost worth running for.

Now, limiting arkhan's CA so it doesn't stack with itself?  That's a homebrew nerf I could get behind.  Honestly, I think AoS 2e matched play could use a new official "rule of one" for command abilities in general.

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48 minutes ago, Sception said:

Soul harvest has the exact same "of the caster" wording for range as every other spell,

Reading it here in english yes, but the wording/translation in german is slightly off. Instead of „units within range“ , it is more like „measure around the model“... 

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