AoS 2 - Legion of Sacrament Discussion

[Dauzy]

I've got a newbie question : To apply the Battletraits which allows us to set up a previously destroyed unit on a 4 + . Each oppenent miniatures should be killed in battle or you can still apply it even some warrior had run away? 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Dauzy

[Honk]

2 minutes ago, Dauzy said:

You can still apply it even some warrior had run away? 

Yep ? 

models lost due to battleshock count as slain...

last sentence in the battleshock rule

[arka0415]

8 hours ago, Dauzy said:

I've got a newbie question : To apply the Battletraits which allows us to set up a previously destroyed unit on a 4 + . Each oppenent miniatures should be killed in battle or you can still apply it even some warrior had run away? 

Speaking of The Master's Teachings, has anyone actually gotten it to work? It seems like the trigger is so specific, it would never actually happen in-game.

Has anyone gotten good use out of it?

Edited July 21, 2018 by arka0415

[Honk]

On 7/21/2018 at 6:09 AM, arka0415 said:

It seems like the trigger is so specific

You could make this happen, against an unsuspecting opponent once... after that he’ll just remove models from within 6“ first. 

Within 6“ is just kinda stupid and afterwards you’ll have to be able to set it up too, fully within 9“...

but if it happens, you can use that evil grin, you got prepared

Edited July 23, 2018 by Honk

[Honk]

Next rule question ? :

Do we have a ruling for „Mark of the Favored“ yet?

I know the FAQ states, that the wound is suffered after the attack is finished, but how many dice do you roll?

Is it once per unit? Is it for each model choosing to attack? Is it for each melee attack profile choosing to target the general? Is it per to hit dice thrown at him? 

I mean for a unit of 5 black knights charging, that is either 1/5/10/20 dice you get to roll...

my (German) book says: ...whenever the general is chosen as a target for an attack during the melee phase...

the horse on the far left side could choose to attack something else with its second hoof attack...but that seems stupidly strong, while only one die per unit seems just stupid

 

any good answers, which will not have to be decided by a shouting contest?

 

[Greatgut]

How are people finding the lords of sacrament battalion now? Is it worth the increased points and Morris Engine?

I keep finding I’m casting some spells for the sake of it, and clumping around the Morris Engine is limiting my play and spreading around of Deathless Minions and regeneration. 

[Honk]

Like you just wrote... it seems to hinder YOUR style of play, which then is true for YOUR lists...

the price increase was a „big“ hit (was too cheap before), so I personally would say in a defender list, where huddling around the centerpiece is not too limiting and playing with endless spells and realm spells, so you‘re able to cast 6-7 spells per phase it might be fun...

for it to work they have to be positioned relativly aggressive to have targets and your opponent should have no direct means to demolish your engine first shooting phase (kurnoth, skyfire, raptors...)

and 130 points are 10 puppies for objective holding

[Carnelian]

So umbral spell portal has been rinsed but at least arkhan's command ability has survived the big culling of 23 July 2018

[Lemon Knuckles]

On 7/23/2018 at 4:07 AM, Honk said:

Next rule question ? :

Do we have a ruling for „Mark of the Favored“ yet?

I know the FAQ states, that the wound is suffered after the attack is finished, but how many dice do you roll?

Is it once per unit? Is it for each model choosing to attack? Is it for each melee attack profile choosing to target the general? Is it per to hit dice thrown at him? 

I mean for a unit of 5 black knights charging, that is either 1/5/10/20 dice you get to roll...

my (German) book says: ...whenever the general is chosen as a target for an attack during the melee phase...

the horse on the far left side could choose to attack something else with its second hoof attack...but that seems stupidly strong, while only one die per unit seems just stupid

 

any good answers, which will not have to be decided by a shouting contest?

 

I stand by the interpretation that you roll for Mark for each hit dice thrown.  

I know some people have argued that it is one per attacking unit, but that doesn't hold up to me. 

The errata language actually helps clear it up a bit:  "On a 6+ the attacking unit suffers 1 mortal wound after all of its attacks have been resolved."  Ergo, an attacking unit has multiple attacks, and I don't consider it a stretch at all to say that each of those attacks needs a target.

 

[bolderiz101]

ouch to the nerf of spell portal! my list was awesome before the nerf but hey it was meant to be since i could dish out 40 mw on turn 1 hahaha

[KoalaSnok]

2 hours ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

I stand by the interpretation that you roll for Mark for each hit dice thrown.  

I know some people have argued that it is one per attacking unit, but that doesn't hold up to me. 

The errata language actually helps clear it up a bit:  "On a 6+ the attacking unit suffers 1 mortal wound after all of its attacks have been resolved."  Ergo, an attacking unit has multiple attacks, and I don't consider it a stretch at all to say that each of those attacks needs a target.

 

 

2 hours ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

...whenever the general is chosen as a target for an attack during the melee phase...

 

Agreed. Seeing as you can divide your attacks freely between any enemy models in range, there is just no way to argue that the target is selected "once". The attacker has to choose his target for every single attack, even if he wants them all to go into the same target. If anyone has problems understanding this, then maybe that person should stop "batch rolling" attacks for entire units, and start rolling for one attack at a time - to better understand the actual rules at work "in the background". 

[GeneralZero]

Rule question:  Arkhan command ability (first of mortach) range extender for wizzard: does it apply to himself? and then can he cast curse of years with a 24" range?

[Lemon Knuckles]

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

Rule question:  Arkhan command ability (first of mortach) range extender for wizzard: does it apply to himself? and then can he cast curse of years with a 24" range?

Yes, and yes.

[swarmofseals]

On 7/20/2018 at 9:09 PM, arka0415 said:

Speaking of The Master's Teachings, has anyone actually gotten it to work? It seems like the trigger is so specific, it would never actually happen in-game.

Has anyone gotten good use out of it?

 

On 7/23/2018 at 2:49 AM, Honk said:

You could make this happen, against an unsuspecting opponent once... after that he’ll just remove models from within 6“ first. 

Within 6“ is just kinda stupid and afterwards you’ll have to be able to set it up too, fully within 9“...

but if it happens, you can use that evil grin, you got prepared

It's important to recognize that the ability has value even if you don't trigger it. It influences your opponent's movement, particularly with respect to small units and lone heroes. You want your opponent to stay back from your gravesites, especially if you have them placed near objectives. For battle plans that involve wizards and artefact bearers for objective capturing this is particularly potent. 

[Nevek]

my take im trying out   

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- Lore of the Dead: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- Vampiric Sword & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Battleline
10 x Dire Wolves (120)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears

Units
30 x Grave Guard (420)
- Great Wight Blades

Endless Spells
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 160
 

 

 

[Honk]

7 minutes ago, Nevek said:

my take im trying out 

Best of luck... the blobs are pretty slow, but once they’re on an objective your opponent will have a hard time countercapping 

remember, a cp can also make a run roll be a 6, if you need those skellis double time ?

not quite sure if I would split the wolves to have fast harassers on both flanks, giving the footsloggers time to get into the game, but that’s totally scenario/opponent/ taste depending 

beware of horde killers (gaunt summoner, nurgle plaqueclaw, purple sun and such)

[Nevek]

49 minutes ago, Honk said:

Best of luck... the blobs are pretty slow, but once they’re on an objective your opponent will have a hard time countercapping 

remember, a cp can also make a run roll be a 6, if you need those skellis double time ?

not quite sure if I would split the wolves to have fast harassers on both flanks, giving the footsloggers time to get into the game, but that’s totally scenario/opponent/ taste depending 

beware of horde killers (gaunt summoner, nurgle plaqueclaw, purple sun and such)

the part about splitting up the dogs i have been going back and forth over alot...gonna try both ways and see from there....as for being slow...im finding that the killy power of the army can advance slowly...it can be rough to get to objectives but as you said once there my oponent will litterly have to kiss a chaos gods feet to get me to move out....

 

[GeneralZero]

You will spend 80% of your game time to move those 40+40+30 skellies hahahaha

I got myself 40skell+20 GG and it is sooooooooooooo long (but I love to see them on the battlefield)

BTW, I'm not sure that 30GG are really needed: I play 20 and with the summon, I don't feel they need 30. I like your list, it is close to what I will do. But I'll try to save 5 waolves and 10GG to get 160 points: this can be many other things. For example, 3 vargeists for a change (fly, move fast and hit enough)

[Nevek]

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

You will spend 80% of your game time to move those 40+40+30 skellies hahahaha

I got myself 40skell+20 GG and it is sooooooooooooo long (but I love to see them on the battlefield)

BTW, I'm not sure that 30GG are really needed: I play 20 and with the summon, I don't feel they need 30. I like your list, it is close to what I will do. But I'll try to save 5 waolves and 10GG to get 160 points: this can be many other things. For example, 3 vargeists for a change (fly, move fast and hit enough)

something to ponder on

 

[Honk]

I‘m waiting for my corpse cart to get my 60 zombies moving... that‘ll be a sight to behold. hitting on 2, wounding on 3, with a vampire and van hels will teach my opponents a lesson in statistic ??

[smucreo]

What do you guys think about replacing Skellies with Chainrasps in Legion of Sacrament lists? They move faster and fly, so they are potentially better at capping objectives, they have better rend protection, and they replenish just as fast, the only downside being that skellies would generally be considered killier overall. I feel in a list with bigger hammers they can effectively push skellies out.

I was thinking along the lines of going for Arkhan+Vhordrai/VLOZD/Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist+2 necros and 2 units of 40 rasps as a core for a generalist legion of sacrament list to expand from.

Edited July 28, 2018 by smucreo

[WillofNagash]

On 7/21/2018 at 5:09 AM, arka0415 said:

Speaking of The Master's Teachings, has anyone actually gotten it to work? It seems like the trigger is so specific, it would never actually happen in-game.

I placed the grave sides on the objectives and since you need to be within 6” to capture objective lots of opponents leave models there to last. Also when a single model unit gets wiped. Happened for me 3 times in a game unfortunately I rolled bad so couldn’t set up a unit every time. But great fun

[Honk]

1 hour ago, smucreo said:

What do you guys think about replacing Skellies with Chainrasps in Legion of Sacrament lists? 

I think I cannot afford it ?

 

[GeneralZero]

well, there is the game...

and there is the look.

For the first: skellies are so good...., for the later, just no.

[Honk]

The use of skellis or chainrasp also depends on the internal synergies of your list f.e. playing grand host gives deathrattle a lot of buffs...

Same goes for legion of night, the armor value can’t be modified, so no „the bait“ rule. And I really like the idea of 3+ skellis in the woods. 

In the details I think skellis also have some tricks, the banner to reduce bravery, a musician for a secure 6“ charge without spending CPs.

If supported by a hero, as they should, they either are prepared for a 2“ flood of attacks or they hit on 3+ with swords. At 20+ they also have 2 attacks, and usually your sporting 10 or 40 (3attacks each).

so yes, chainraps are faster and have reliable attacks and 5+ save  so I think a bit better in a 10/20 batch, but if you’re spending 160 points for something kinda fast, I‘d take hexwraiths or flayers or blackknights and a vortex,  almost forgot 10puppies. If you want to flood an objective and grind i‘d take 40 skellis or 60 zombers.

I‘m old and set on my vampyre count ways in all trveness. For a nighthaunt player, they sure pack good synergies and possibilities