AoS 2 - Legion of Sacrament Discussion

[CaptainSoup]

23 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

For your first list, am I mistaken or is it not legal? How could you take a Death March battalion in a LoS aligned army?

The Death March battalion is in the LoN book as a generic death battalion anyone could use.

[Sovereign]

8 hours ago, CaptainSoup said:

The Death March battalion is in the LoN book as a generic death battalion anyone could use.

I thought it was only legal in an allegiance Death army? It's not selectable in Azyr, anyway.

[CaptainSoup]

13 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

I thought it was only legal in an allegiance Death army? It's not selectable in Azyr, anyway.

It's selectable from the official Warscroll Builder website:

Trust me, I've seen plenty of lists made with the Battalion used. Perhaps Azyr doesn't have that function for some reason.

[Honk]

1 hour ago, CaptainSoup said:

Perhaps Azyr doesn't have

Guess they don’t...

all LoN battalions are usable in a LoN army, Lords of the Keep in Soulblight and whatever wherever. If it’s in the book, you can mix it (terms and conditions apply)

excluding Nighthaunt/FEC, If restrictions allow, I think you could even ally in a battalion, but not sure about that...

[Hot Peanut]

I have played some games with Grand Host and Nagash and now I want to try the Sacrament army. Here is the army I want to try:

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Amaranthine Orb (Vampires)
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Units
1 x Corpse Cart (80)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)

Endless Spells
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 156
 

First things first, I love skeletons and the idea of a big hordes... but what I am interested in, is the Corpse Cart with an Unholy Lodestone. In my opinion it is very strong when playing with some mages and hordes of summonable units, but I don't see it that often. Is there a reason for this. I mean it only costs 80.

With this scenario i would have two wings:

Wing 1:

2x40 Skeletons

1 Necro

1 Corpse Cart

Wing 2:

1 Vampire Lord

30 Grimghast Reapers

 

1 Arkhan & Dire Wolves roam the board

 

Is this a viable list? I am not a competitive player and not planning to go on tournaments.

[Honk]

1 hour ago, Hot Peanut said:

Is this a viable list? 

Well, should be... pretty grindy, but that’s a good thing, some fast elements.

Play it!!!

[Graywater]

2 hours ago, Hot Peanut said:

 

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Amaranthine Orb (Vampires)
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Units
1 x Corpse Cart (80)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)

Endless Spells
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 156
 

First things first, I love skeletons and the idea of a big hordes... but what I am interested in, is the Corpse Cart with an Unholy Lodestone. In my opinion it is very strong when playing with some mages and hordes of summonable units, but I don't see it that often. Is there a reason for this. I mean it only costs 80.

 

Is this a viable list? I am not a competitive player and not planning to go on tournaments.

Yeah, blocks of 40 skeletons for staying power, 30 grimghast and a vampire lord for offense l, and Arkhan for magic supremacy. Its solid. 

I think nobody plays the corpse cart because its 80 points for +1 to cast. Sounds good, but you have to stay by it to get the bonus, and it's generally more useful to have another unit of doggies or endless spells to fling around. You're already getting +1 to cast through the allegiance ability, and a lot of the spells you want to get off are fairly easy to roll since the value is low. If there is one that is higher, have Arkhan do it with his +3 to cast.

I like pinions on the vampire lord, and overwhelming dread is great on the necromancer. Only thing I'm not sold on is amaranthine orb on Arkhan. The damage potential is massive (with the potential to completely whiff as well), but he typically wants to be towards the back, behind the wall of skeletons slinging and dispelling spells with his bonuses. I personally give him debuff spells like fading vigour or spectral prison for this reason.

[Honk]

3 hours ago, Graywater said:

I think nobody plays the corpse cart because

...their stupid!!! No, they’re not, but the rerolls of invocation dice is also kinda neat (arkhan can by himself, but if the cart rumbles with the 6“ to the unit, rerolling all those 1-2s (1) will push your skelli blocks to the max.

 

3 hours ago, Graywater said:

Only thing I'm not sold on is amaranthine orb on Arkhan. 

Transference... he needs the extra heals, and with his ca, he can aim it at 18“...

[Hot Peanut]

5 minutes ago, Honk said:

No, they’re not, but the rerolls of invocation dice is also kinda neat (arkhan can by himself, but if the cart rumbles with the 6“ to the unit, rerolling all those 1-2s (1) will push your skelli blocks to the max.

Yeah I thought so too, if I would only play one block of skelis I do not think that I would pick the cart, but with two it makes sense to me always between those blocks.

And yes I think Transverence would be a good fit for him, thanks. I also thought of putting a third block of skeletons in, but then it gets too messy.

[Honk]

9 hours ago, Hot Peanut said:

but then it gets too messy.

Can’t get too messy 🤣👍

the meta (I think) favors hordes right now, and we’re good at it. 

But a friend of mine is painting up two plaqueclaws and that’s that then... T.T 

the corpse cart positioned between the two blocks will make sure, that the DI of the necro and the vamp achieve something (gravesites are not effected). And arkhan only casts two spells per round, so the necro still has to do some chanting, +2 really pushes it, same goes for the pinions on the vamp. They are needed to fire up on turn 1, if you fumble that roll, your distraction carnifex just didn’t make it where he was supposed to be and you’re set too deep in defense.

one other thing i‘d Like to throw out there for arkhan is the soul harvest bomb... double CA for 15“ aura of d3 mortals. If you‘re up against an aggressive opponent who likes to be in your face, mortal wound spam with healing... 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Honk

[Cursed]

4 hours ago, Honk said:

one other thing i‘d Like to throw out there for arkhan is the soul harvest bomb... double CA for 15“ aura of d3 mortals. If you‘re up against an aggressive opponent who likes to be in your face, mortal wound spam with healing... 

the harvest bomb combo gets even nastier with the spellportal!  In most game I tried it, with double CA, Arkhan can touch almost all the army of my opponent and with the double cast (that happened to me more than it should be permitted xD) 2d3 MW on every support and small heroes is really strong turn 1!  

[Honk]

4 hours ago, Cursed said:

gets even nastier with the spellportal! 

Had tough discussions in my group about that, what is a measured range, what gets effected, from where, how and stuff. Since it is three effects bouncing off each other.

 decided not to go that way, since I don’t even own the endless spells... 

but still very funny when you crank out that measurement tape more and more and more, yep, your all getting it, look who rolled a 9, tasty

 

 

[Sovereign]

Building a Legions of Sacrament army and trying to be as close to an old Warhammer Fantasy undead army as I can get, and so far that means piles of skeletons.

The consensus on the internet seems to be that skeletons are incredible, but I feel like I'm missing something. Is it just because they get an absolutely stupid number of attacks?

[CaptainSoup]

48 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

Building a Legions of Sacrament army and trying to be as close to an old Warhammer Fantasy undead army as I can get, and so far that means piles of skeletons.

The consensus on the internet seems to be that skeletons are incredible, but I feel like I'm missing something. Is it just because they get an absolutely stupid number of attacks?

Pretty much. In a vacuum they can push upwards of 400+ attacks a turn with all the possible buffs applied which is pretty nutty. They are also really  hard to take down thanks to all healing LoN can do for them. 

[Saikological]

50 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

Pretty much. In a vacuum they can push upwards of 400+ attacks a turn with all the possible buffs applied which is pretty nutty. They are also really  hard to take down thanks to all healing LoN can do for them. 

noobie here 😉

what kind of buffs are you talking about and what is CA?

[CaptainSoup]

1 hour ago, Saikological said:

noobie here 😉

what kind of buffs are you talking about and what is CA?

An article posted on the community site can give you an idea of the kinds of buffs you can use for your skeletons (posted here). Generally people take 40 skeletons to take advantage of their own ability to get +2 attacks per model, the Necromancer's spell that allows them to attack twice in a phase and the Vampire lords command ability that adds an attack. 

I'm not sure what CA means off the top of my head, but in Warhammer 40k "CA" usually means the "Chapter Approved" book that gets released every year. 

[Honk]

1 hour ago, Saikological said:

what kind of buffs are you talking about and what is CA?

Sooo, if there’s over 30 they get 2 extra attacks, van hels dance spell from a necromancer let‘s them pile in and fight twice in your combat phase... first lesson if possible take 40 and a necromancer.

then a wightking (if you field one) gives +1 attack to a deathrattle unit as a command ability or your vampire lord (on foot) gives any death unit +1 to attack as a command ability...

with spears 2“ reach that suddenly becomes a bunch of 4+\4+ attacks...

still not totally deadly 30 skellis fully buffed (1+3+1+1 =6attacks) 180 attacks become 90 hits become 45 wound against a 4+ save that’s 22.5 damage, nothing to sneeze second pile in another 22.5... 

so in this post, they just dealt 45 damage...

BUT: they all have to be within reach, no casualties and two command points... did I mention 30 skellis within reach?!? Your opponent has to be stupid to not attack them after their first activation.

Also necro, wightking and vampire will heal 3d3 skellis your next hero phase if all goes to plan 

but that is just theory in this post  real life might/will differ

[Honk]

13 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

I'm not sure what CA means

Command Ability... special abilities heroes might have which you can trigger with a command point (CP). 

You get 1 CP for a battalion, 1CP for each 50 points under the army points limit and 1CP at the beginning of your turn.

if your playing 2k and field 1960 points and your opponent has first turn you have none (might be critical for battleshock). 

If you bring only 1950 to the table, with a battalion and start the game you suddenly have 3CP.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Honk

[CaptainSoup]

2 minutes ago, Honk said:

Command Ability...

Ah right. Slipped my mind for a moment there lol. 

[Saikological]

sweet, thanks guys for the clear explainations!

[Saikological]

btw does that vamp or other hero have to be on foot? cant it be a vamp on zombie dragon?

[CaptainSoup]

11 minutes ago, Saikological said:

btw does that vamp or other hero have to be on foot? cant it be a vamp on zombie dragon?

The Necromancer is on foot. The Vampire Lord and VL on Zombie Dragon are two different units with separate warscrolls. Only the Vampire Lord has the command ability previously mentioned. 

[Saikological]

thanks for pointing that out. I was still with my head at the old warhammer, where the steed didnt matter in such a way.

[Sneedlewoods]

17 minutes ago, Saikological said:

thanks for pointing that out. I was still with my head at the old warhammer, where the steed didnt matter in such a way.

It's still possible to take a Vampire Lord on steed or a winged one and they still got the CA. :-)

[relic456]

Any thoughts on Guardian of Souls being made legal in LoN armies? I'm surprised they didn't change the entry in the LoN Designer's Commentary that says Guardian of Souls can't take a spell from the Lores of the Dead.