AoS 2 - Legion of Blood Discussion

[Honk]

2 hours ago, The Gunslinger said:

any little tweaks or suggestions

Not sure about the amount of battleline... you seem to have a plan cut out, so good luck,

but otherwise I think I‘d throw out the banshee and the chainrasp and go for a mortis engine 🙀 

or throw out the dogs (I know, usually I love them) and max out on chaingangers... having another „big grind“ seems good

[Lemon Knuckles]

@Honk did you just come back from vacation or something?  You are all over the place suddenly.

[Honk]

Realized that too, after spamming all the threats...  sorry 🤣

job was in end of year hype and the new faq triggered me

[Silverline]

After getting distracted  by a host of other projects, I am finally wanting to get a start on my bloodsucking nasties. I am leaning towards Chainrasps for battleline choices largely because the new models are so neat, and because they seem like a fairly amusing horde to drop directly on top of an objective turn 1 via gravesites. 

The list does still have a bit of room left for a second unit of Wolves, but I was pondering just leaving those points free for the extra command point. 

Thoughts? Is there enough vampire-based RIP AND TEAR going on here?

Edit: I also have a question regarding the LoB battle trait Favoured Retainers - from reading online, I have inferred that it only affects the vampires themselves and not the mounts. However, going through the rulebook, as far as I can see the "not affecting mount attacks" is only specified for command traits & artifacts. Which is correct? Do Blood Knight steeds get the extra attack? Does the Zombie Dragon ridden by the non-named Vampire Lord gain an extra claw & bite attack? If not, where does that get specified?

Allegiance: Legion of Blood
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (480)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon(440)
- General
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Aristocracy of Blood 
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Battleline
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Units
5 x Blood Knights (240)
5 x Blood Knights (240)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128
 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Silverline

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Silverline said:

Do Blood Knight steeds get the extra attack? Does the Zombie Dragon ridden by the non-named Vampire Lord gain an extra claw & bite attack? 

Yes to both... keyword VAMPIRE LORD and blood knights, so VL on foot, on dragon and the knights are the affected models.

the rule says: get +1 attacks to all your melee weapons, that’s where your steed is listed...

The whole profile is buffed, just like the VL command ability does. Sadly Prince V is not a lord 

[Silverline]

14 minutes ago, Honk said:

Yes to both... keyword VAMPIRE LORD and blood knights, so VL on foot, on dragon and the knights are the affected models.

the rule says: get +1 attacks to all your melee weapons, that’s where your steed is listed...

The whole profile is buffed, just like the VL command ability does. Sadly Prince V is not a lord 

Sweet, cheers - I think I need to add some more Vampire goodness to the list in order to take advantage of that

[Honk]

The favorite retainer trait is pretty strong, sadly some warscrolls are excluded... the prince, the palanquin, the coven throne.

even neffi is left out!!!

but 2x5 blood Knights will most likely leave a dent into anything the charge.

Hoping for a x-mas delivery of undead elves for my Soulblight list

[Silverline]

Has anyone had much luck using the Castellans of the Crimson Keep battalion? On paper at least, I'm a little dubious about the value of the alternate deployment rule, though the simple lowering of the number of deployments alone seems pretty handy to help the list get second turn. 

[Countess Elise]

Hello! Reading through this thread you all seemed like nice and smart people so I made an account to pose a question. 

 

Since WHFB I've been wanting to make a Lahmian vampire list. My general thought have always been to run a bunch of vamps, with a queen on Coven Throne as my centerpiece, supported by skellies and maybe some ghosts. I'm currently unsure of where to take my collection further and how to field it though. My goal is to have a decent but still on theme 2k list for my city's biannual tournament. 

 

Here's what I own :

Coven throne, 2 vampires on foot, one wight king

30 skellies with swords, 20 grave guards with great weapons. 3 spirit hosts, 5 black knights and 5 hexwraiths. 

I'm getting either a box of skellies and a box of grave guards or a gift card to my flgs for Christmas. 

My plan so far is to add either get the start collecting malignants for more ghosts and a blood seeker (using the handmaidens for vampire lord conversions) or the start collecting skeleton box for Neferata. 

Any thoughts, tips? Do you all use the coven throne at all? 

With love, from Sweden. 

 

[TMS]

@Countess Elise, I've used the coven throne a fair bit and I love it. It's a great way to get a general with a decent amount of wounds without having to go all in with a dragon. It's decently strong on its own against things without much armour, it's very mobile and even gets to use Look out Sir since it isn't a monster. The command ability is brilliant, both on itself and for things like blood knights. For the points I think its a great deal.

[Honk]

Well, for Legions of Blood you are neither using the favorite retainer bonus not going for the bravery bomb. Go for sacrament and grab a necromancer while you’re at it... best model in our range.

if you’re rebuilding the ladies from the coven/mortis/palaquin Kit, might go for an mortis engine, together with the bravery debuff from LoB the scream can do some work. 

 

The coven throne is a great mid-tier model. Very fast, great command and spell abilities and a bunch of wounds.

not as much punch as a vlozd but still pretty good.

[Countess Elise]

I have a conversion happy friend who can make me blood knights, I forgot to mention that! 

[Honk]

For bravery bombs, black knights with harbringers and a mortis engine... -3 bravery is nice and the reliquary can heal the morghast and then roll for battleshock. 

But only really good against bravery <7 imo, and you‘ve got to get your positioning right to pull this off...

Edited December 24, 2018 by Honk

[Silverline]

After playing around some more in the builder, I've come up with something I think should be pretty fun to build towards. I'm keeping the Nighthaunt sub-theme since I both really like the models and think the theme of having unquiet spirits bound to the will of martially-inclined vampires is neat. Besides, Reikenor seems like a fantastic platform to ensure a Cogs cast, since having Blood Knights threatening a minimum of 20" just sounds hilarious!

Allegiance: Legion of Blood
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (480)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon(440)
- General
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Aristocracy of Blood 
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Allies

Battleline
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Units
5 x Blood Knights (240)
5 x Blood Knights (240)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 180 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

On 12/22/2018 at 3:12 AM, Honk said:

Yes to both... keyword VAMPIRE LORD and blood knights, so VL on foot, on dragon and the knights are the affected models.

the rule says: get +1 attacks to all your melee weapons, that’s where your steed is listed...

The whole profile is buffed, just like the VL command ability does. Sadly Prince V is not a lord 

I thought only the bloodlance/sword was affected and not the mount portion of the profile. Seems silly for a VLoZD to get extra attacks with it's claws and maw...

[Honk]

4 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

I thought only the bloodlance/sword was affected and not the mount portion

The rules are phrased pretty clearly (at least in the german version), but I am willing to read through any FAQ or Designers Comments, if somebody found somewhere that mounts are not affected.

Till then it’s rabies for everybody

[Silverline]

Favoured Retainers caught me out, too - the confusion seems to come from the core rules specifying that Command Traits and Artefacts that provide a bonus to weapon attacks do not affect mount attacks, and it becomes far too easy to assume that this restriction applies to other sources when it does not. 

In this case, Favoured Retainers is a Battle Trait, which lacks the mount restriction. So, much like a buff spell, it should affect every melee attack on a unit's Warscroll, including mounts.

[Honk]

Yes the wonders of GW rule phrasing... XD

and it makes the Retainer-trait pretty strong, double dragon lists and such

[The Gunslinger]

On 12/19/2018 at 3:20 PM, Honk said:

Not sure about the amount of battleline... you seem to have a plan cut out, so good luck,

but otherwise I think I‘d throw out the banshee and the chainrasp and go for a mortis engine 🙀 

or throw out the dogs (I know, usually I love them) and max out on chaingangers... having another „big grind“ seems good

Is it too much battleline or not enough?

I do like the Mortis engine idea, so that might be the way I go with it. Would that work positioned behind the skeletons and with the necromancer to form a pretty solid centre to the army?

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

@Honk Now if only prince V had the right keywords...

That's seriously broken tho, may give me good reason to run neffi again, Arkhan spell bombing has been my bread and butter lately but of I can get even more mileage out of my vampire lords then i may just go for a face smashy bravery bomb.

[Silverline]

15 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

@Honk Now if only prince V had the right keywords...

That's seriously broken tho, may give me good reason to run neffi again, Arkhan spell bombing has been my bread and butter lately but of I can get even more mileage out of my vampire lords then i may just go for a face smashy bravery bomb.

Neffi also lacks the keywords required to get the attack bonus, as does Prince V and the Coven Throne. 

I kind of understand why the named characters miss out since their attack profiles are so powerful (Neffi especially would be nothing short of gross), and the throne would gain an extra 4 attacks (which would make it *almost* worth the points cost). It's a bit of a shame that Varghiests don't get the benefit, though.

[Honk]

19 minutes ago, Silverline said:

It's a bit of a shame that Varghiests don't get the benefit, though.

It is called „favorite retainers“ not „most ugly mugs“... snobby vamp will not mingle with those degenerates.

And since it is called „retainers“ the high and mighty ladies are the ones dishing out the favors...

an interesting rule might have been „choose three units favored by the court“ for +1 attack to their profiles. But that would just lead to favored skellis and doggies (including prince V)...

2 hours ago, The Gunslinger said:

Is it too much battleline or not enough?

For legal purposes it is enough, for fluff reasons it might be okay,  my only question was why and what do you want to achieve with all the units... might be stronger to focus a bit more.

[The Gunslinger]

2 hours ago, Honk said:

 

For legal purposes it is enough, for fluff reasons it might be okay,  my only question was why and what do you want to achieve with all the units... might be stronger to focus a bit more.

 

Well at the minute when I play at 1000 points I run the Skeletons in a block of 40 and two units of 5 dire wolves. The problem is if I want to leave a unit defending a backfield objective it has to be a unit of wolves because I can't waste the skeleton block, but then I loose of on their movement and screening usage. So adding a small unit of chainrasps or skeletons would let me cheaply hold a back objective without sacrificing a mobile, useful unit. 

Most games now I leave one unit of dogs in the grave and then bring them out when I need them later on. But if I want to try and alpha strike something big with my black knights then having two screening units seems like a good idea. 

[Milford]

What do you chaps think of the following schema for a list?

Allegiance: Legion of Blood

LEADERS

Vampire Lord (140)

Necromancer (110)

Reikenor the Grimhailer (180) - Allies

Dreadblade Harrow (100) - Allies

Dreadblade Harrow (100) - Allies

UNITS

5 x Blood Knights (240)

5 x Blood Knights (240)

5 x Blood Knights (240)

2 x Bat Swarms (80)

2 x Bat Swarms (80)

40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)

5 x Dire Wolves (60)

5 x Dire Wolves (60)

ENDLESS SPELLS

Chronomantic Cogs (60)

TOTAL: 1970/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 152 LEADERS: 5/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 0/1 ALLIES: 380/400

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Milford said:

What do you chaps think

On one hand I really like the diverse fluffy approach... buuut

not sure about the dreadblade harrows. What are they supposed to add to your game? They are not part of LoN, so they don’t get deathless and whatever. 

I can see adding the grimhailer dude, but the others?!? Am I missing something? Why not take the guardians, they get all the LoN keywords and can work on the chainrasp horde...